WV man, white, 62, shoots, kills two black brothers, 60 & 61, for visiting their own property

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

Very disturbing case - he gunned these two guys down from a distance, using his high-powered scope rifle, without any attempt of communication.

He then called 911 and claimed he was stopping a break-in on what he said was his property

The shooter:


The victims:

Two brothers were shot and killed in Barboursville Saturday afternoon after a neighbor believed they were trespassing on his property, according to law enforcement.

Rodney Bruce Black, 62, of Barboursville, was charged Saturday with two counts of first-degree murder, the Cabell County Sheriff's Department said.

Black was charged after he called 911 dispatchers Saturday afternoon and said he shot Garrick Hopkins, 60, of Milton, and Carl Hopkins, 61, of Oak Hill, who he thought were breaking into an outbuilding on his property.

Garrick Hopkins recently purchased the lot adjacent to Black's property at 12 Lane Drive in Barboursville. He was taking Carl Hopkins, his brother, to show him the property where he and his family planned to build a new home, a press release from the Sheriff's Department said.

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401260002

Video, from night before the full info of the victims was released:

&feature=c4-overview&list=UUQ6RtwFR0XV2yZFhRj8JZfA

The latest update:
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/UPDATE-Two-Men-Shot-to-Death-by-Homeowner-in-Barboursville-241973841.html

BTW, look for the rightwing media, with its asinine obsession with "the knockout game" and a supposed epidemic of "black-on-white violence" to cover this story a week from never.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

1. Sad, but not surprising.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/6/study-suggests-link-between-gun-ownership-racism/?page=all




Gun ownership and racism go hand in hand. It's another one of those inconvenient liberal "facts".

[Hoyt]

5. +1.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

6. Or you know....

It could have been that this 62 year old man was just playing too many damn video games!

Whatever it was, a gun in the hands of a deranged racist lunatic had nothing to do with it!

[Hoyt]

8. There's a gun shop near me that puts videos on Internet. One video

showed the best gunz "in case a brown person wanders across your lawn."

Gun marketers know their market. Not much diversity in gun shops, gun shows, militia groups, NRA board, etc. But gun fanciers deny any connection.

[exboyfil]

48. Do you have a link

[JJChambers]

53. Seconded (nt)

[atreides1]

157. Here's what I found.

http://mosspawnandguns.com/services/gun-services/

[pintobean]

55. Yeah Hoyt, I'm calling bs, too.

Where's the link?

[Hoyt]

70. You wade through bigoted videos at Moss Pawn and Gun.

Assuming some of you guys don't wait for each episode, take a look and report back. They are located appropriately on the Old Dixie Highway. They are bigots, as are their customers.

Do you guys really believe folks in gun business are so innocent? How many of you guys are Randy Weaver apologists? Gungeon is full of them.

[JJChambers]

73. Still waiting

Last edited Mon Jan 27, 2014, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)

showed the best gunz "in case a brown person wanders across your lawn."

Gun marketers know their market. Not much diversity in gun shops, gun shows, militia groups, NRA board, etc. But gun fanciers deny any connection.

Still waiting for a link to your above described video; you made the claim but haven't supported it. I would truly like to see a link to this specific video you're quoting.

[Hoyt]

74. I gave you name of place, they have a bunch of videos that I bet

you'll find interesting. Have at it.

[JJChambers]

75. That's what I thought (nt)

[geomon666]

97. Found one

He has almost 700 videos up but here's at least one where he tells people who live on the border of Mexico to shoot the brown people. I'll even give a link for those who need their hands held or maybe a leash around their necks because they don't know how to use the internet.

?t=4m43s

[Hoyt]

98. Where did they go?

There's also a photo of the little short bigot with a confederate flag filling up background. And there is another video where those two beam with pride over a pistol with confederate flag grips they are promoting. I'll let gun crowd say I'm making that up too.

[Kingofalldems]

123. Looks like all the little gunners and

person(s) in charge of DU have fled the scene.

Have they apologized yet?

[Hoyt]

142. LMAO. Too busy clutching their gunz.

[Electric Monk]

167. Let's give them another chance. Maybe they just haven't seen it yet, so I'll kick this back to pg 1.

Pintobean? Duckhunter? 7962? etc?

Cat got your tongue?

[pintobean]

168. Yeah, I saw it.

I would guess that the others are like me and are giving him all the respect he deserves.

[Hoyt]

170. Maybe you could provide some links to gun stores that promote liberal causes.

[pintobean]

171. Maybe not.

I don't visit gun stores or their web sites. You'll have to do your own homework.

[Hoyt]

172. Exactly, gun stores by and large cater to racist, white wingers.

[pintobean]

174. Of course you believe that.

You think every gun owner is a bigot or a racist.

[Hoyt]

175. I'd say well over 50%. Otherwise, you'd see gun stores catering to the progressive crowd.

I think I saw where there is a gun range in NY that a predominately Black gun club maintains, but that is about it. And I think the reason they have the club, is they didn't like the how they were treated elsewhere.

[Electric Monk]

99. Transcript from 5:08 to 5:17

"If I lived on the border, and some brown man came running through my back yard that looks like he ain't belong there, I'm gonna fire some tracers at his ass. Why aren't people doin that?"

[hollowdweller]

189. Yeah how can anybody think that's a good thing to say?

I'm not saying that it's absolutely criminal but when people hear stuff like that over and over it can contribute to them thinking maybe it's an accepted practice to shoot 2 old black guys.

[NoGOPZone]

186. ow

That smackdown is going to leave a mark

[Electric Monk]

102. See post #97.

See post #97, then apologize for calling Hoyt a liar.

[Kingofalldems]

124. Looks like it's downthread.

[CreekDog]

199. hey, where did you go? you demanded some evidence and Hoyt gave you what you asked for?

i thought you considered yourself upstanding around here but no.

[Kali]

59. there isn't much diversity in most organizations

even liberal ones that you would think to be having such a goal. I suspect the racial diversity of DU is skewed very white, for an obvious example. I know I have been pretty shocked at the lack of even Hispanic representation in several Tucson AZ groups I have been affiliated with.

Not to say there aren't racist gun owners out there, of course there are - but to point out lack of diversity in those organizations and locations is not really relevant, white is the dominant demographic almost everywhere, even where there is no individual bigotry.

[Hoyt]

66. Sorry, been to enough gun shows, stores, ranges, etc., to know bigoted yahoos are vast majority of

customers. The south is like that.

[JJChambers]

67. So

Will you humor us by providing a link to the material you referenced?

[Hoyt]

71. Just did JC. Get back with us after you get your jollies.

[snooper2]

144. Do you still own a gun or when did you get rid of the last one?

out of curiousity...


Also, these knucklefuckers have videos of food prepping too. Sometimes you have to wonder if they believe the shit they spew or if they are just feeding off low education idiots to sell more product. I'm thinking the latter---

[Duckhunter935]

77. making stuff up again

can't provide a link, so I guess you have been outed gain as someone who fails to tell the truth

[7962]

93. I have a hard time believing that one too. nt

[Kingofalldems]

176. Oops. Guess you were wrong.

[7962]

182. Yep, I see he posted a video. That one guy ought to go to jail just for the beard. nt

[Electric Monk]

100. See post #97, then you can apologize to Hoyt for calling him a liar.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4399128

[Number23]

27. Very good article. Thank you for posting that.

[rocktivity]

2. Dupe - More

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024394536

[malaise]

3. Thank the NRA and ReTHUGs for tolerating this shite

That the ReTHUGs and Fox 'News' for creating an environment of racist fear.
Then throw away the fucking keys.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. I hadn't realized the victims were black.

[KeepItReal]

14. Same here.

Racism. Damn. Just compounds the tragedy.

[GP6971]

44. Me too. n/t

[Enthusiast]

108. But the shooter could recognize they were black through his scope.

[hatrack]

114. Me neither - wasn't clear during yesterday's coverage

Now much more becomes clear.

[JI7]

7. this guy is typical of most gun people

i'm not saying all of them. but most of them.

[pintobean]

17. What are "gun people"

and what do you base your statement on?

[JI7]

21. the shooter in the OP

[A Simple Game]

38. Gun people are those that will try to change the subject of a thread

to something that will not harm their ability to own guns.

[pintobean]

41. Threads go off topic all the time.

Conversations are dynamic. Silly accusations have the same effect.

[RetroLounge]

49. and there you go...

Your asking about the ones who distract, ask unrelated questions, keep deflecting, look for gotchas, then go high five each other in the gungeon...

But you knew that.



RL

[pintobean]

52. Go find a post of mine in the gungeon.

Someone made an unsupported claim and I called them on it. The answer I was given was a joke. You seem to think anyone can make any claim they want.

And, why are you puking all the time? You might want to change your diet, or something.

[RetroLounge]

54. "Your asking about the ones..."

You should try reading sometime...

and I puke when people are puke-worthy.



RL

[pintobean]

57. .

[A Simple Game]

128. You're right, I was just being silly, now let's all try to get back on subject.

So, what do you think we need to solve this gun problem we have in America? Better property line markings?

[pintobean]

137. Buy up all the bullets.

Maybe we can get Bloomy to help.

[A Simple Game]

139. Do you hate the people on DU that acknowledge there is a gun problem as much

as you hate Bloomberg, or does that much money really make a difference?

[pintobean]

140. It was a joke. I don't hate anyone.

The PPRed troll graham4anything went on about that. Many thought it was funny.

[A Simple Game]

145. Of course it was a joke, how unperceptive of me. n/t

[pintobean]

160. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022794158

[A Simple Game]

162. And so you prove me right once again, do anything to prevent harm to the ability to buy guns. n/t

[pintobean]

163. Lol.

Okay.

[A Simple Game]

165. Lol? No not lol, maybe you don't care, you don't seem to, but people are dying, every day! n/t

[Lost_Count]

61. So...

Lets do some math...

Millions of gun owners in America.. Tens of millions...

Lets be conservative and say that there are only 10 million.

You said most gun owners are like the shooter in the OP.

I'll be generous and say 50.0001%. Technically most but just barely....

That means that there are 5 million (and one) armed people out there who will shoot multiple people, dead from range, with no previous interaction...

At the rate of around 10,000 gun homicides a year, I think you are falling behind... and fast...

Of course if you were just spewing hyperbolic emotional outbursts and aren't interested in having your words reflect reality.. Go nuts...

[Comrade Grumpy]

62. That's a really stupid statement. It adds nothing to any serious discussion.

[hollowdweller]

191. I'm a gun person

In fact this is happened about 4 or 5 miles from where I live.

I don't think it's typical. Most people around here are hunters still not all hung up on the end times porn stuff.

That said in the last 30 years as the US has become more urbanized the gun industry has pivoted from sporting and shooting type guns to end times porn and self defense stuff as a way to keep sales up.

I think it's a bad move. More stuff like this will happen.

Go back to target and skeet shooting! Promote more hunting! This whole man in his castle held up thing they are promoting is going to eventually cause a huge backlash in gun laws.

The fact that they even shot down increasing the background checks show that they are just like Wall Street. Give them enough rope and they are going to hang themselves.

[kcr]

198. Yes!

If I could recommend this post I would.

[Blue_Tires]

9. LOL at the Sheriff saying race had nothing to do with it....

[hollowdweller]

192. Yeah right

I didn't even know any black people lived in Milton, other than a few Mexicans pretty much it's all white till you get to Huntington.

The old white guy saw a couple black guys trying to get into a building and thought it was ok to shoot them.

The guy wasn't out to shoot them because they were black mind you. However since there are virtually no black people in that area the guy just assumed they were bad guys. That's the race part.

[noiretextatique]

10. murder...plain and simple

sickening.

[freshwest]

11. Dammit, two nice men minding *their own* business, on *their own* property.

Planning their retirement home and murdered in cold blood.

No more Stand Your Ground bullshit!

[rhett o rick]

12. Wait just a minute. You mean shooting someone at 100 yards with a high

powered rifle with scope isnt "standing your ground"?

I dont know what the distance was but how insane that those loving guns will go to suck lengths against control that idiots like this can get guns. I dont believe we need to take everyone's guns, but if the gun lovers cant figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of idiots, then take them from everyone.

on edit i see that i typed "suck lengths" in lieu of "such lengths" and I think I will let it stand.

[Scootaloo]

13. I WUZ SKURRED!

[Hoyt]

72. Peeps gotta do something with all that sniper preparation.

[AAO]

15. Well, they were kind of suspicious looking

if you're a paranoid racist old white man.

[butterfly77]

29. The shooter looks black too..

[MH1]

30. Maybe the op has been updated since you typed that,

but the photo of the shooter that's there now doesn't look a bit like a black man.

[kcr]

34. I'm looking at the edits and it looks like the same picture

I'm with you.

[LiberalElite]

32. He looks white to me nt

[JI7]

43. maybe you just saw the 2 brothers pics ? the shooter looks white , not even mixed, just white

to me.

[cui bono]

82. What? You need to adjust the brightness and contrast on your monitor then.

There's no mistaking him for anything other than an old white man.

[hatrack]

115. Huh?

You may want to lean into the screen a bit, or perhaps tilt it.

[Jenoch]

16. Assuming the facts are all correct,

this guy committed double murder. This case has nothing to do with self-defense or stand your ground.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Yup.

Indefensible. No way the shooter skates on this one.

[raccoon]

122. Right, and I hope the killer gets life. nt

[doc03]

47. In his warped mind it did n/t

[valerief]

18. I knew the US was in the toilet back in the 90s when I saw a gun shop right

next door to a daycare.

[riversedge]

106. We have gun shows at the local High School gym

her in WI.

Perhaps that is common in other states??

[valerief]

161. I don't know. I don't look for gun shows or high schools. nt

[HockeyMom]

19. Old men

They think their guns will give them back their virility. I say this as an old woman.

[ninjanurse]

25. That's How Guns are Marketed

Sexy and powerful, just what a failing old man needs. This isn't the only murder committed by an elderly, frightened man with a gun.

[doc03]

56. Oh thanks for stereotyping anyone 61 years old as being

a senile old man. I am almost 66 so I guess I am a doddering old fool.

[doc03]

51. I don't care if you are an old woman, I resent that remark. I am almost 66

and don't care to have someone 5 years younger than myself stereotyped as a senile old
man that goes out and shoots people.

[HockeyMom]

158. Maybe POWERFUL

would have been a better word than virility, since I think applies equally to all gunners; male, female, young, and old.

[tofuandbeer]

20. :(

It was like he was hunting! That's messed up.

[pintobean]

22. Here's the image of the murder victims.

I noticed in the other thread that the image wouldn't show here. You can hotlink to my photobucket if you want to put it in your OP.

[Deep13]

39. Yup, I can tell these guys were gangster thugs just by looking at them.

[Ed Suspicious]

23. Garrick and Carl look terribly threatening, not like the nice man with the rifle. "Good guys with

guns gone bad." I'm trademarking that for the girls gone wild style movie.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. He didn't like blacks near him, I suppose. He'll be educated about that in prison. nt

[Lucky Luciano]

26. I'm sure Mr Black was an ordinary law abiding gun owner until this past weekend.

This is infuriating.

[7962]

31. Why the need to point out the killers race? Was it done with the mall shooter OP or their victims?

This guy needs to be put away, no doubt. For life. Or executed. Put me on the jury. But if we're gonna start mentioning the race of the killer in these crimes, then it should be equal treatment and not just when its a white guy.
And I guess the knockout crimes are just made up, since almost all of the perpetrators are black? And I said almost.
If race HAS to be an issue here, then lets go ahead and look at the crime statistics broken down by race and population. Want an OP on that?

[heaven05]

37. go ahead

your figures will probably show a skewed number. White was mentioned because this racist clown was white, just like zimmerman, just like that white clown in dearborn, mich who blew the face off a unarmed young black woman with a shotgun because she, being drunk, in an accident, probably disoriented, rang his doorbell at the wrong time of night. Not all knockout crime are black on white. Race has always been an issue in amerikkka, deal with it! Go ahead put up your numbers to show black people are so crime prone. Who in the hell do you think you're fooling? HuH!!!!!!!

[7962]

50. Since no stats will be true according to you, it might be tough to prove anything to you.

But since you asked, according to FBI stats, most whites killed are killed by other whites and most blacks killed are killed by other blacks. But when the murder is inter-racial, whites are killed by blacks almost 2-1 over blacks killed by whites. And since blacks make up only 13% of the population and whites about 65%, that "skews" the number to an even bigger extreme. Also, Hispanics are usually counted as "white" in these stats.
But the GOOD news is, the rate for BOTH has been dropping, not rising, over the past several years. Most victims of both races are killed by someone they knew, especially women of both races.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/black-america-2013_n_3639934.html
Article refers to a Scripps-Howard study using FBI stats. Scripps-Howard is hardly a right wing service, and neither is HuffPo.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3
This is for 2011. Showing more black than white offenders and again, accounting for the disparity in population percentage, that number in reality is huge. Even if you split the "unknown" category evenly.
I'd love to snap my fingers and rid the country of all the racists of any race, unfortunately I cant.

These are facts, not made up by some talk show host. You may not like them but that doesn't make them wrong. But go ahead and continue using the cute "Amerikkka"; the facts show otherwise. Our President easily being elected twice shows otherwise. The number of blacks elected in majority white districts shows otherwise.

[AnalystInParadise]

60. Took the words out of my mouth

Some of our friends on our team don't like data that disproves their "Amerikkkkkkkkka is always racist" bullshit fever dream they inhabit. Are there racists? You bet, but they call in all shapes, sizes, races, ethnicities and ages. No one skin color has a monopoly on racism.

[heaven05]

130. right

geez. another one.

[AnalystInParadise]

196. So now

arguing with Federal Government statistics is logical? Wow. Another one indeed, but I feel you are looking in the mirror

[7962]

197. The only way for his argument to be right is for everything else to be made up and me be a liar.

I was asked for facts and I gave them. Not liking them doesnt make them wrong. I wish they WERE wrong.

[Hoyt]

101. Whites get away with it a lot more, stand your ground laws were pushed by

bigoted Republicans to help.

[7962]

111. And this crime will have nothing to do with "SYG". He'll never be allowed to use that as a defense.

My opinion anyway. Dont even know if his state has that law. But the facts of the crime dont come anywhere close to fitting the law even if they do have it. And he was instantly charged with double murder. He shot people who were not even on his land, from inside his house!
We'll see, but this is not going to be another zimmerman case. This guy is toast unless he pulls out a "mentally unstable" defense.
I guess we'll see in the next few months.

[heaven05]

129. look

you are in your blame game that blacks are more prone to crime than whites. fine stay there. My amerikkka is what amerikkka is, 50,000 klansmen marching down pennsylvania avenue in their lovely white robes and hoods. my amerikkka is the supremes tearing down civil rights legislation. my amerikkka is restrictive voter registration laws in 35 states. my amerikkka is trayvon martin lying dead on the ground because he was black therefore suspect and lord, he had a hoodie on. you can tout all the stats you want. The racist pig that shot these two black men is a WHITE racist who shot two 'suspicious' BLACK men NOT on his property. You get insulted because your race is pointed out. The navy yard shooter was pointed out as black early in his insane and suicidal shooting spree. For many, many decades the perp was identified as negro, the other n word, colored and black. So I cannot feel for your fake outrage covering up for who knows what under the surface thoughts of race you have careening around in that skull of yours. Please don't insult me. Like I said, someone like you does not fool someone like me who has watched the march of racism, in ameriKKKa for 50+ years of reasoned and logical thinking. I know you and it ain't pretty. otherwise, have a lovely day.

[AnalystInParadise]

58. Wow

really? It's called statistical data and it proves you wrong.

[heaven05]

131. like i said

geez. another one.

[Deep13]

40. He shot them because he is white and they were black.

They looked like criminals to him because in his mind blacks are a criminal class. This is America. If something might be about race, it is about race.

[7962]

42. Nowhere in the article does it state him saying any such thing.

Again, he deserves to be UNDER the jail. From the looks of this guy he's probably quite likely to have shot anybody on "his" property.

[Deep13]

79. So? nt

[7962]

88. So?... You stated your "opinion" as a fact, and its not evidenced in the article or any other.

He COULD have done it because they were black, but at this point thats not known. And as I said earlier, from the looks of him he probably wouldve shot anybody

[Lost_Count]

63. Wow...

... way to insure that America stays bogged down in racism for all eternity...

If something might be about race, it is about race.

That's a keeper

[Deep13]

85. Recognizing that racism exists is not the same as ...

... perpetuating racism. Failing to recognize it does that.

[Lost_Count]

107. Well and good...

... but that isn't what you said.

A rational person would realize that racism could be one of many reasons that a given situation occurs.

If something might be about race, it is about race.

What you said, is that if it could even potentially have been about racism then that automatically becomes the motivation.

The worst part is that in a case like the shooting listed above, someone could jump all over themselves to try and prove racism, when there was a different reason and the truth gets lost. It could be but just declaring it is intellectually lazy.

Maybe you meant what you said in the second one but I'll bet you just mashed out your first post and it reflects your views more accurately. If so, you might want to self reflect a bit.

[linuxman]

64. Really?

That's a pretty bold statement. Does that apply to any and all violent altercations between people of different races? A black guy fighting a white guy, a white guy fighting a Hispanic guy, etc? after all, it might be about race, therefore it is, right? Does it apply to the mall shooting the other day? Just curious.

While I wouldn't dismiss that race has something to do with this case, to say that anything that might be about race simply is about race is....asinine.

[Deep13]

83. I'm not going to argue with someone with a clearly limited understanding of history. nt

[linuxman]

89. Well...

If you are incapable of addressing what I said it in an intelligent manner, that's probably a good idea.

"Uh, history and vague insinuations! Me won!"

Nice attempt though. Something has happened before, therefore anything that looks like it is the same, always and forever. Right.

Damn. Usually people that suck at history are at least good at science and logic...

[7962]

91. Yes, and history shows that blacks are much, much more likely to kill whites than vice versa.

SO you wanted history, theres your lesson. Are THEY all racists too? I doubt it, but I'm sure SOME are. On both sides of the color coin. Refer to my earlier post #50 with the statistics. Maybe you are limiting YOUR knowledge of history so you can conveniently leave that out.

[heaven05]

152. you really need to study more

Last edited Tue Jan 28, 2014, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

if you were in any class on racism in american history and culture, past and present, and it effect upon minorities, you would fail that class. I'm done with you. I can't see wasting any more time with someone so obviously well insulated from the truth of some of our amerikkkan culture, past and present. bye bye.

[7962]

173. Man, it must be tough to have a chip that size on your shoulder!

Your first post asked me to show you figures, and I did. Of course, now you change the subject to how the history of the country must be the reason. Bull. Of course I know our history, bad and good. And its a shame this country is such an awful place to you. If only you could afford to go to a country where race is never an issue. Oh wait, there isnt one.
If you cant see how things have improved for minorities in the past 50 years, then you'll never see it. If you cant see the easy election, and re-election, of a black President by a majority white population as an improvement, no, you'll never be happy. If you cant see klan marches being dwarfed by people of all colors protesting THEM as a good thing, you'll never be happy. Not to mention the fact that they hardly ever even happen anymore. The vast majority of white people laugh at those fools.
You asked for facts and you dont like the results. For whatever reason, you are a very bitter person. I hope that whoever did you wrong paid the price.

[heaven05]

187. all my rebuttals to your woeful ignorance

of race relations is tied together. Your attempt at justifying blacks being more crime prone just show what rock you live under. BHO is the POTUS because any fool could see mittshit was a foolish clown who is capable of destroying families and homes with his corporate raidership and didn't deserve to be POTUS. I applaud the people who voted for BHO. They were/are the smart ones. 47% of the voting public voted for mittshit. How's that for a fact! Our history is a tragic example of white entitlement and feelings of superiority enslaving a culture to the point of systemically poisoning race relations for generations..
BHO getting elected scared many, many people who felt their white privilege and entitlement was threatened. The point is your idea of improvement is sad and ignorant of realty. DWB is an example of no improvement. The prison system reflects the racist nature of justice in this country. Racism went underground, not away since the 60's. BHO caused fear among all white people who were/are racist based on their feelings of deserving white privilege and entitlement at the expense of minorities. David Duke showed the hooded clowns that they didn't have to march anymore, but if they could, there would be 50,000 marching down pennsylvania ave today. White people standing on the sidelines laughing would make no difference to those 50,000 and I don't doubt there are non-racist white people. Don't talk about knowing it's 'better' for minorities. You know nothing about minorities and the struggles they and all poor people face in this 'great' country. There are better nations than ameriKKKa. Your facts suck and are not based in reality. I'm going to try not to waste time with you anymore. My statement on your failing grade, in understanding amerikkkan race relations, still stands.

[7962]

188. A true racist still wouldnt vote for obama,like those who wouldnt accept a black doctor

Yes, 47% voted for romney, does that mean they're all racists? David Duke? Jeeze, that loser never won anything outside 1 state special election 20-30 yrs ago. As for knowing whether its better for blacks or not as a white man, some of my opinions are based on the things I've learned from my brother-in-law, who is black. He's pushing 66 and has been around a few more years then I have. I'm sure you wont believe that either, but whatever. He said that even 20 yrs ago he never thought he'd live to see a black man as president. He's been guilty of DWB several times, as has his 2 sons from his first marriage. Plenty of stories over the years on a LOT of topics. He wishes his parents were still alive to SEE the positive changes that have happened since they passed.
But i stated earlier, the Justice dept is making changes to stem the unfair prison sentencing you mention as well as the unfair drug laws too. These will have a lasting affect as the years go by. It may even get some people out of prison early based on time served.
My facts came from the govt. Where would you have liked me to get them? Fox?

Are we as far as we need to be yet? No, but we're a long way from where we started.

[heaven05]

132. and that history is still marching

in the present time. You are right not to waste your time on people who are 'color blind' and people who deny the sun is hot. Good for you, very smart response.

[cinnabonbon]

148. I have to say I agree with you.

[hughee99]

68. If he were a REAL gun nut, race wouldn't have mattered, he'd have shot the two

because he thought he could get away with it.

[Deep13]

80. Gun nuts are so because they fear the Other...

...which for American white men is non-white people from the city.

[hughee99]

84. Old white gun nuts could fear anyone.

Regardless of their skin color or where they're from.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

105. You don't actually have any evidence for that assertion, do you?

It's by no means implausible, but nor is it in any way supported by evidence, and yet you're blithely asserting it as proven fact.

[JI7]

46. because many think it's ok for white guys to shoot black people because some other black person

might have done something or become president so they have a right to kill them out of fear and taking their country back or some shit like that.

nobody defends black kids who attack innocent people in the same way as people do with the above cases. but the media did not just report on what happened and mentioned race but they create some fear about how people need to be on the look out for blacks who will attack and be armed and ready for it.

[cui bono]

87. Nailed it with this line:

"nobody defends black kids who attack innocent people in the same way as people do with the above cases."

Sad but true.

[Enthusiast]

109. Accurate.

[cui bono]

86. Crime stats or arrests/conviction stats?

Come on, there are stats that whites do more drugs but blacks are arrested many fold more than whites. There was something that came out about NYC on this. Stop and frisk and all that. What race do you think was stopped more?

The reason race comes into play is because the murderer was white and the victims were black and the victims were on their own damn property and the murderer murdered them from a distance with a high powered rifle with a scope. Then he had the balls to say he stopped a break in.

Racists think they have the right to murder blacks after all this stupid stand your ground bs and Zimmerman being acquitted.

Or do you think there's no racism in the USA?

[7962]

120. OMG, read what I posted. Dont change the subject.

The drug arrest/sentencing has been unfair for years. The Justice Dept has issued guidelines to try to stem that. Laws are being changed to equal out the punishment. And the drug war is a waste of time and money. We're talking about MURDER. And if you think this guy is going to use SYG and get off, i'll take that bet. He's going away is my bet.
But you cannot refute the facts that I posted. Whites are victims of blacks many times more than blacks are victims of whites. But both races are usually victims of their own race.

[Eve60]

169. Re: Post 120

Prove it. With stats and facts. How many whites have been lynched by blacks for moving into their neighborhoods, marrying into their families, attending their schools, fighting to vote, shop, live, eat, worship etc. where they desired? How many of your churches have we bombed or burned, crosses have we burned in your yard, entire communities have we destroyed, entire countries have we taken over, putting you in chains either physically, economically or politically? Show the economic stats that blacks are richer than you, own more land than you, live more privileged lives than you. Show the stats despite having a president who is half black, blacks are better off now than even ten years ago. Look up the studies on the widening income gap between the races and come back. Of the number of films released in Hollywood the past five years name off the top of your heads the number produced by, directed by black Americans or focused on black themes. Name off the top of your head the number of black governors we, have. Quick! Name a black mayor off the top of your head. They exist but do you know them? There are thousands of black inventions running in the world. Quick! Name one beyond Eli Whitney or George Washington Carver or Benjamin Banneker. You don't know them because this isn't taught or focused on. Name the last story you saw on television where one black after the other killed, hurt, shot or maimed a white person because they were white. There are indeed black on white crimes but how often do you see them? The answer is rarely. Compared to whites how many black serial killers do you know of? How many black groups or individuals shoot up a school full of kids, or movie theaters full of people, or....well, you get the picture now, don't you?

How long are whites like you, certainly not all whites, going to continue attempting to justify your history by rewriting everyone else's? You did what you did. You are who you are. At some point why can't you simply say, "We were wrong! Let's fix this"? SMH. Lol.

[7962]

178. I could name folks, but you'd just say I googled it.

And Eli Whitney wasnt black.
You say "There are indeed black on white crimes but how often do you see them? The answer is rarely." No, thats NOT the answer. The facts I provided shows that it happens more than twice as much as the opposite. And by a smaller portion of the population. Those are the facts. Just as most serial killers are white is also a fact. Most pedophiles are also white. The whole point of this is this continued need to focus on the fact that THIS guy was white, therefore he is a racist. He very well may be. But so far nothing in the story mentions it, unlike other white racist crimes.
All the other things you mention? They certainly DID happen. And I know it was wrong even if I wasnt alive during those times. Most of my ancestors weren't even in this country until 1910-12. I was only a small child when MLK was killed. I also didnt live in the south back then. Things are improving, but never as fast as we'd like. My last 3 bosses were black, something that wouldve NEVER happened 60-70 yrs ago. I have a black brother-in-law. Again, something that would've NEVER EVER happened 60-70 yrs ago. Hell, I'd of probably been killed because of it back then. My current state representative is black and I'm in a majority white district. Wouldnt have happened.
Of course all those terrible things you mention happened, as they did in other countries as well. But improvement shouldnt only be measured in dollars. It should be measured by the mood of the public too, and as I mentioned in another post, 95% of whites today would laugh at a klan rally and protest against them. And also stand up to someone trying to run a black family out of their neighborhood. I have no desire to "re-write history". It is what is is. But its not like that anymore, and it will continue to get better as we move forward.

[cui bono]

181. Let's say what you say is true, even without you providing stats.

Who lives more in poverty and in inner city areas where crime is more prevalent? There is a reason for crime and it's usually poverty, no hope of a decent future, lack of good education. There are a lot of reasons for everything. It's not so cut and dry and you seem to want to make it.

Just as race is one factor to consider in why this double murder took place, so is poverty and future hopes something to take into account in what you describe. And yes, race is one of them, although I would look at it as an extension of the history of racism in our country where as you want to make whites the victims in your scenario it seems. But minorities have less opportunity than whites do, and live in inner city areas where gangs are prevalent due to poverty and lack of resources.

But back to stats, where are they gotten? From police reports? If so, do you think that's an objective place to get them? And why do stats discount any chance of racism in this case? So if a man gets raped, is it discounted and not allowed to be thought of as rape because statistically women get raped so much more than men?

And regarding SYG, I agree that he doesn't stand a chance using that, what I'm saying is it is emboldening racists to believe they have a right to murder blacks when they see people like Zimmerman get away with it. Speaking of Zimmerman, do you think race shouldn't have been brought up in that case?

By the way... I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to defend here. What I'm getting is that you think that racism doesn't really exist, or at least it's balanced and all races are racist and even that blacks are more racist than whites? That seems to be the gist of it. I don't know why you brought up the any criticism of Obama is racist idea...

[7962]

183. FBI statistics. There are links provided as well as stories citing the same.

Poverty might be an excuse to break into a store or shoplift or something like that, but it's never going to be an excuse to kill.
When it comes to murder, it is cut and dry. There are many factors, as you point out, that come into play when it comes to property crimes and the likes of that. But there's no way anyone should be able to kill someone and blame it on being poor.

[cui bono]

184. I really think you are lacking the big picture view on this subject.

When it comes to murder it is absolutely not cut and dry. It's not like someone just walks up to someone else and thinks I'm poor so I think I'll kill someone today. I mean really, come on. Surely you can see how poverty and lack of education and opportunity pushes people into a life of crime.

I'm not sure you would get it unless you actually had to live the life of a black person growing up in poverty in the inner city. You can be thankful you obviously don't have that life. But you should try at the very least to sympathize with those who do and who don't have the same promise of a decent future that most white people do, and who live their lives having to deal with being under suspicion all of the time, almost every waking moment, and who have to wonder if they are going to be beaten, arrested or even killed during a routine traffic stop, by the officer who pulls them over.

Open your eyes and your mind. Please.

[intheflow]

95. He never tried to shoot any of the white

kids who walked across that property. And he must have known the shed and the property wasn't his. Why would he shoot some people on the property and not others? Skin color is a likely determinative in his actions.

I think he must have assumed the police would just believe that the shed was his and that two men were breaking and entering because they were black.

[morningfog]

112. Race matters, especially in this case.

You are really telling a lot about yourself by focusing your response this way.

[CBGLuthier]

117. If you think their being black did not have anything to do with this white asshole deciding to shoot

well, i can not think of a polite thing to say about that so i will let it be. But you are very, very wrong.

[Iggo]

127. Right on cue.

[erpowers]

134. I Do Not See Why You Are Upset

You are trying to compare two totally different incidents. In the mall shooter case the identity of the shooter was not known for at least a day. As far as I know, the same goes for his victims. In addition, although the victims have finally been identified I have yet to see any pictures of them on any news shows. With this case the shooter and his victims were just about immediately identified and there pictures were released. So, it is very likely that the picture of the black man behind the mall shooting was not put in a post because when the story broke no one knew what he looked like. As a result, no one was able to put up pictures of him on discussions boards.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

179. LOL. nt

[druidity33]

190. My guess

is that it's because he was looking through a SCOPE. He had time to DECIDE to shoot them. I expect that's why he was charged with 1st degree. Do you think if the two guys looking at their new property were the same age and build but were WHITE, do you think he would've shot them? I expect this man will have expressed his racism in the past. Do you want to bring in crime statistics because you think accused's position is defensible? This man was using a SCOPE. He should've called the police. He could've approached the 2 people. He should've known whether it was HIS PROPERTY or not. What are you trying to say here: "If race HAS to be an issue..."? It already is an issue!

[heaven05]

33. this is really sickening

man, the racism in this country is just getting out of control and extremely real and personal. classism, racism, economic disparity, political corruption and racism because of an AA POTUS. I don't love amerikkka much anymore. It's systemically sick and the sickness is possibly fatal.

[siligut]

35. Did Black know the property had been sold?

And did he know that the buyer was black? Sounds to me like Black got himself all worked up about having a black neighbor and after seeing justice fail black people time after time, he figured he might just get away with murdering Hopkins.

[Deep13]

36. But they were suspicious-looking, being all black and all. nt

[Nanjing to Seoul]

45. black men. . .shot? by a white guy? Standing his ground on someone else's property

But the two men were scary black men. Case dismissed. Now, American Idol is on.

[Vattel]

65. Looks like an open-and-shut case of murder (unless Black is severely mentally ill).

[linuxman]

69. Murder one, guilty, next.

Oddly enough, I will be going there in a few days to see my GF. Sort of surprising.

[taught_me_patience]

76. I'm going to guess that race was a factor in this one n/t

[cui bono]

78. Interesting because I didn't get that the victims were black from the other thread on this.

I hope when the old racists die, some of the racism still around will go with them.

[7962]

92. Because the writer of this OP decided to make that the issue. Its not mentioned in the article;

or any other articles i've read on it. Obviously the ones that show pictures of the victims makes it obvious, but the focus should be on the fool shooting, period. Unless he gets a mental deal, he's finished.

[cui bono]

94. Well it's pretty clear the murderer was racist based on where they all were when he chose

to murder them. Racists think that with all the stand your ground laws and the Zimmerman acquittal they can just kill blacks with no consequences. It's murders like this that illustrate why stand your ground is a very dangerous law, especially at this time when racists have been encouraged to be more vocal ever since Obama started his bid for the presidency.

Why do you want so badly not to focus on racism? Do you not think it's a problem in the US?

[7962]

110. Of course its a problem. Its a problem in most countries. But its a minority of thought here.

Its you and others who are blaming this crime on racism and choose to focus on it instead of the crime. Doesnt that guy look perfectly capable of shooting ANYBODY? There's NO mention of race anywhere in the report or his statements. In most race crimes, there is. And also the notion that anyone who speaks out against the President must be a racist, because theres no other reason to be against him. Its ridiculous. A lot of people here on DU have problems with several of the Presidents policies. Its not because he's black. A LOT here do NOT want Hillary to win in '16. Does that make them misogynists? No. Every time theres a klan march or some other idiot group, the number of people who show up to speak out against them outnumber the racists by 100s to 1. Even 1000s.
If racism is so prevalent, then it works both ways. All the black-on-white crime MUST be because of racism, right? I posted the stats earlier to someone who thinks its open season on blacks. Has it been open season on whites? The figures show blacks victimize whites by a more than 2-1 margin. If you account for the racial makeup of the population its more like 5-1. That doesnt mean all blacks criminals are racist, does it?
I'm just tired of the race of the perpetrator being used as the focus of these stories only when its white instead of the crime itself. The Maryland shooter last week was black. It was never an issue here when it was posted. Because the shooting was the issue, as it should have been.

[morningfog]

113. You're right. We shouldn't blame racism. Racism is awesome.

Is the critique hitting close to home?

[7962]

118. Thats very mature of you. Where have I defended racism? Racists are a boil on society.

If YOU want to focus on the race of the criminal then do it for all these crimes. Apparently you'd rather not do that, though. Obviously other posters have the same problem I have with the effort by the OP to make this about race and not about the crime.

[morningfog]

125. The focus should be the crime, the racist killing of two

black men. When you deny it, you defend it.

[morningfog]

126. I'll add this:

The "knockout game" has always focused on the racist aspect when being reported and discussed. Maybe you missed it. Maybe you also missed when it was debunked as a "new trend."

Not every crime of violence is racially motivated. Just because there was a black shooter in the mall does not make it racially motivated. Now, if he were seeking out and targeting whites or if he left a racist manifesto, you may have a point.

[7962]

135. And the fact that the shooter was white and the victims black doesnt make it a race crime.

As far as the knockout thing, most of the victims were white, assailants black. How many does there need to be to be called a problem? Of course it was overblown, just like most things are today with our 24 hr news cycle. 30 yrs ago, those crimes would have stayed local news only. Jeeze, look at the way we cover a tropical storm "hitting" the beach!
Your last statement is exactly what I'm saying; there is no mention of race by the shooter or the police in this crime. I believe this guy would have shot ANYBODY he saw out there on "his" land. And I dont think he's going to have much of a defense.

[heaven05]

133. "minority of thought"

really! geez

[cinnabonbon]

147. What makes this a crime

that you can safely say was not racially motivated? Has this guy shot white people before?

[cali]

164. jaysus. what a load of crap. let's parse, shall we? the guy looks capable of shooting anyone?

you don't want to look at racism because there's not enough evidence, according to you, but you oh so brilliantly are more than willing to declare that the perp is capable of shooting anyone because of the way he looks. wowzer. thanks for lowering the collective IQ.

is this crime related to racism? at the very least, it's a reasonable question.

[7962]

166. By that, I meant that he shot them from inside his house, never went out, never said anything,

never called 911 first, etc. From the looks of his action, he'd of shot anyone.
Yes, I should've said it better than that originally. Point taken

[cui bono]

177. You are making false conclusions when you reverse the scenario.

When were there whites slaves here who were treated as property by blacks? That is such a false thread to follow. You simply can't reverse racism in this country where hatred of blacks, and the thought of them as less than human was ingrained in such a large section of our population and continues to be taught by ignorant hate filled morons to their children.

Of course that murderer could have murdered a couple of white guys, but he didn't. When I found out it was an old white man and two black victims it clicked. Do I know for a fact the murderer was racist? No. But given all the racist history and racist crimes and rise in the outspoken racism since Obama started running for president coupled with these idiotic stand your ground laws and memes about how Obama (the black, illegitimate president in the racists's eyes) is going to take your guns away, there is a fervor in the air and these ignorant racists gun nuts think they can kill a black man and get away with it just like Zimmerman did.

I just don't see how you can not take race into account in this given the current climate of our country. It's not so easy as this was just a shooting. Life is complex. You have to look at everything and race is part of it.

And to compare shooters who go out and randomly shoot into crowded places with this targeted killing is not a good analogy at all. Completely different situations. This guy was home. Now he may have been a bit insane or just plain stupid, I mean who doesn't know if an outlying building belongs to them or their neighbor? Or maybe he was just making up an excuse.

p.s. I never said that anyone who speaks out against Obama is a racist. I speak out against him all them time. I think he is a huge disappointment and a corporate tool.

[Warpy]

81. Trespassing is not a capital offense, even if it had occurred.

I hope that gun happy old bastard is locked up for the rest of his rotten life over this one. He needs to be off the street and away from civilized people.

[flvegan]

90. Trespass alone is no grounds for gunfire.

And from the story, this wannabe sniper has made some very unfortunate decisions.

My heart goes out to the families of the people involved.

[Jenoch]

96. I agree with everyrhing you wrote

except for the sniper comment. This guy apparently shot two men in cold blood from 25 yards away.

[workinclasszero]

103. Has the killer claimed he was standing his ground and afraid

so he had to murder two innocent people?

It worked for zimmerman....

[Electric Monk]

104. "claimed he was stopping a break-in on what he said was his property" from the OP. nt

[7962]

121. No, just "stopping a break in" on what wasnt even his property. Dont think he can use SYG.

Does his sate even have that law?

[heaven05]

136. you're being disingenuous

a quick google can find if the law is on the books. feigned questioning. not believable.

[7962]

138. Horsehockey. I didnt look. Now I have and he cant use it as a defense.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/ChapterEntire.cfm?chap=55&art=7&section=22

His actions in no way fit any of the allowable actions under WV law. Hell, even in FL he probably couldnt have used it as a defense.

[heaven05]

141. well at least

I made you look. Purpose executed by you. thanks.

[Mr Dixon]

116. SMH

Surprise Not !

[PowerToThePeople]

119. rescind the 2nd amendment, now! n/t

[warrior1]

143. I think I'm going to throw up.

[PRETZEL]

146. Local paper write up

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/x238620574/Families-struggle-to-make-sense-of-shooting

It seems that at one time Black's family did own the land that the shed was on. After the passing of Black's mother, the family split the property in order to pay estate costs.

Not knowing anything further about Black, would the question of whether Black was believing to himself that this was still his property?

[workinclasszero]

149. So even if this delusional gun humper thought he owned this property

Does it give him the power of life and death over any unfortunate soul who steps onto it????

[PRETZEL]

150. No

he's sitting in jail charged with two counts of murder.

But, at this point in time I'm not convinced that race was the determining factor in why he shot in cold blood.

[workinclasszero]

156. Hey were they wearing hoodies?

Maybe has some skittles on them too? And black males???

Well shit...instant death sentence in Merrica!

And the killer walks away scot free! In Florida anyway.

[Eve60]

151. RE: THE ISSUE IS RACISM NOT GUN CONTROL

While I don't like gun violence or violence of any kind with any weapon, this is about this man's state of mind. Whether he had a gun, knife, machete or flame thrower, his intent was to kill two black men he saw. His upbringing no doubt has convinced him that every black man is a potential "rapist, thief, drug dealer, pimp, hustler, gangster, thug, illiterate, etc", all the racist stereotypes dating back to the day the ships began landing. The same race-denigrating crap that made the likes of George Zimmerman and others believe that it is always "open season" on black males in particular who little more than "prey" for "the hunt". This is embedded still in the psyche of many white males in America and wherever the ghosts of slavery remain. And it is still interwoven in the fabric of American society. Dodging, distracting from and playing down this mastodon in the midst, is why racism continues unabated in America and why black men and women especially continue to die. Until we get to the heart of the matter, which means delving into why whites created this civilization based on color valuation, this will either continue or end in a civil war that will destroy what is left of the nation. Peace.

[Eve60]

154. RE: THE ISSUE IS RACISM NOT GUN CONTROL

One last thing. He didn't ask or yell out asking why they were there or what they were doing there which is what most normal people would have done. He didn't call the police which is what he should have done if he was suspicious. He didn't fire a warning shot, which would have gotten anyone's attention. He didn't yell out "I have a gun!" He shot BOTH men, which means he intended to kill them. He knew they were not white. He probably thought he was being a hero. And unless and untill white people stop ignoring, apologizing for or playing down racism every single time it is brought up as if by denying it it will make it go away, we are headed for a climactic showdown between people of color and whites in this country that will bring centuries of denied justice to the forefront. That would be a tragedy and likely the end of America. Especially given our fragile economy. The only way to stop this is to deal with it head on once and for all. Peace out.

[Tracey74]

193. This is not about race

This man assumed that the property was still his and thought that these men were breaking in.while,he still had NO right to shoot them at all he should have called police first, its not about Race as some are making it out to be. He fired from 50 ft away and I am sure these men were bundled up as the weather was below zero with wind chills so, I doubt he could see what race/color they were. not to mention according to MR Blacks niece(on a news page) that her aunt(his sister) sold the property and didn't tell him about it,therefore he assumed the property still belonged to him(his family).Again,it was wrong of him to do so and his sister(if this story is true) should have mentioned it to him.He should not have shot anyone.He does deserve to be charged with a crime though no matter what because he should have called police first not after he shot and killed someone. He was in no immediate danger and his life was not at stake so he had no rights to shoot anyone in the first place.

[TBF]

194. How can you say it is not about race -

you have no idea what he saw. His family is going to post whatever they can on Facebook to make themselves look better.

And if he couldn't see them well at 50 feet why the heck was he shooting at them? It could have been a friend of his for all he knew.

[pintobean]

195. You joined DU to defend this guy?

Wow.

[cui bono]

185. Agree. Welcome to DU!

[HappyMe]

153. Racist old fart.

I feel bad for the Hopkins family.

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. If you're using a scope, you're "hunting", not "protecting". n/t

[pintobean]

180. Assassinating.