General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm not upset with the president for honoring that soldier.
After all, this is someone Obama met prior to the injury. What makes me nauseous is the roomful of vultures wearing suits and uniforms applauding him after they ruined his life with 10 deployments.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)WHY?
Oakenshield
(614 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)That's kind of the subtext in Obama's whole "just like the Army he loves, Sergeant Remsburg doesn't give up, doesn't quit, he's a fighter" line, no?
hughee99
(16,113 posts)precious metals and oil pipelines.
Rex
(65,616 posts)That should never happen under any circumstances.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)WTF is wrong with DU -so many members seem entirely DISCONNECTED from what is still happening there
Rex
(65,616 posts)I watched a wonderful family destroyed after 3 deployments to Iraq. I cannot imagine the hell he went through by going into a warzone 10 times over. That is a disgrace by his superiors to HIM as a human being imo.
Then again, military professionals are time honored props to be used by politicians of all political stripes. Maybe the disconnect comes from the overall desensitization we went through during the BFEE years via the M$M.
It is sad to watch.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)they'd be SCREAMING if this sensless war was still in progress under a republican, and RIGHTFULLY SO
Rex
(65,616 posts)The shame in sending soldiers to war until they are nothing but nubs of meat and bone should be embarrassing to all here.
The fact that we started one war illegally and never put the effort needed into the other is not just embarrassing, but endlessly tragic for the thousands of families that go to bed at night missing their son or daughter or father or mother.
I am ashamed.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)to shore up the argument the President was making that we do not need to enter other wars? When you have Rs jonesing for more war and actually coming on teevee afterwards to complain that the President was against the military, the presence of this young man cast a glaring light on the insatiable greed of the war machine and those in Congress who are invested in feeding it. I don't understand why this young man's presence was not seen as an example of this. And, yes, giving him a bit of time to be honored also was just fine with me.
Rex
(65,616 posts)10 deployments! THIS IS NOT about Obama, I wish people could be objective enough to treat this as what it is...an abuse of power by his superiors that should have dam well known better!
10 deployments means we have failed our military professionals, but keep making excuses for the government if you want to. I find it sickening.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)23 years of war in the region, and a few thousand dead Americans. Compared to less time in Vietnam, with TENS of thousand dead Americans. So the M.E. doesn't get the same coverage or attention as VN. And, there is no draft.
But it seems to me that DU members are not entirely disconnected, we have plenty of discussions about the region and our involvement. There may be some sense of resignation, that whatever we do, whoever we elect, there is no exit.
I don't think it's the biggest issue, on DU, or in the country. Marriage equality, gun control, abortion, and lately income inequality seem to be politically hotter topics. Even medical (or recreational) marijuana gets more press. And then there's the weather.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)So the number of deployments is new territory, too.
We started shooting in 1991, and we're still there. Plenty of time for ten deployments.
And there's no draft, so no large source of fresh troops.
Maybe we should get out of there. But it looks like that won't happen for a long time.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
hack89
(39,171 posts)he is a Ranger. Rangers, like all special forces, do lots of short deployments as opposed to long one year deployments. They usually deploy for two or three months of intensive operations before returning to base to train and plan for their next operation.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Sorry, but 10 deployments is a vulgar display of power and abuse.
hack89
(39,171 posts)instead of spending 12 months in combat, they spend two-three months.
The question to ask is how many months he spent in combat. I doubt you will find it to be an extraordinarily high number.
Rex
(65,616 posts)That is assuming a lot imo. Bottom line, 10 is 10 too many when there is no exit strategy to a war most Americans don't even think about anymore. It is shameful.
siligut
(12,272 posts)It basically amounts to psychological, if not physical torture.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Surely after 2-3 times, you get to spend your time serving somewhere else.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)the expression, One death is a headline, a million is a statistic?
I think that is really the underlying point. Yes, he's resilient and will go on, but it was also: here is what this is doing. Here is what war looks like when an American is wearing it. This is what we all let Bush lie us into. I think tonight people will applaud his courage, but in the back of their mind the seed was planted that we are seriously f'ing up our young men and women.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Obviously.
Note: the poster you were responding to claimed this man was "Dragged out like a circus freak."
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Probably the best day of his life since his tragedy occurred.
Response to joshcryer (Reply #18)
Post removed
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)As promised. Nevermind he doesn't get any credit for withdrawing from Iraq since "Bush was the one who did that."
morningfog
(18,115 posts)He surged in Afghanistan and we're still there.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)So your post is objectively false.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)We have not "withdrawn" from Afghanistan. We have started to withdraw, maybe we are even withdrawing. But, we have only withdrawn from Iraq.
I said Obama surged in Afghanistan and we are still there. Both statements are true.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)He promised to withdraw "responsibly." We can disagree on whether the slow draw down is "responsible" (we probably would agree that it wasn't "responsible" but Obama is a man of his word. I do not believe he thinks personally he is being irresponsible.
It's OK for him to be wrong. It's OK for us to say it was wrong to withdraw so slowly.
The surge was before his second term, he promised to withdraw by the end of his first time, and he lived up to that promise. You don't have to like it, but Obama, in his first term, began withdrawing from Afghanistan, as promised in 2008.
We will be out of Afghanistan (with the exception of training troops) by the end of this year. Those remaining training troops, can of course be considered a mistake, but again, Obama promised to responsibly withdraw. If he believes that the training troops are necessary, that is his mistake, but it doesn't violate is campaign promise. If you voted for him you voted for that action.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Hobo
(757 posts)Haters are just gonna hate. Again a so called Dem too. Just remember it could have been President Romney giving that speech today.
Hobo
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)its amazing and stunning isn't it?
FSogol
(45,476 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)FSogol
(45,476 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Wow, that takes real planning, to plan that far ahead.
moondust
(19,972 posts)They should have been hiding under their seats in disgrace.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)You want/wanted him to quit Prezzing and go to Iraq and Afghanistan?
Or you think he should have gone to Vietnam when he was 5 years old?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)They scream, as they wipe the spittle off their monitor.
Sid
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that's the same charge the cretins on the right use, don't you? Do you think all Presidents should have served in the military or they have no right to send troops anywhere?
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)What wars has Obama started? Should he have served in Viet Nam when he was 5 or 6?
Yet people will howl that there isn't any derangement syndrome. Criticism is one thing, but this kind of thing is ridiculous.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)No wonder these people can't get more than 5% in an election. Their condescension is jaw-dropping.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)This really is a stupid ass argument to be making and when they get offline they'll realize just how asinine they were being.
I expect William Pitt's apology post in the next day or two once it sinks in just how mind numbingly stupid this argument is.
Note: I understand where they are coming from, my stomach didn't sit right as those people applauded that man for his service. But I was more taken by Obama's calls against endless war, calls against being a war state, and urgency for diplomacy moving forward. We'll be out of Afghanistan by the end of this year.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they just cannot understand...but they drip with hatred and wonder why they are not seen as attractive...
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)flamingdem
(39,313 posts)and the teabaggers and the so called progressives on view throw shit and can't make it stick.
That was a beautiful moment of unity, Obama didn't start that war.
Cha
(297,154 posts)"so called-progressives".. more like knee jerkers led by the "big derpbowski".
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)so many who just spoke right up and admitted they didn't watch...but either took a position on it without any evidence at all...or just decided to let someone else do the thinking for them.
I was LMAO For real!
Cha
(297,154 posts)clarification. It's deplorable that St Cory Remsburg was deployed 10 times..
"President and Soldier: 3 Meetings, and a Lesson in Resilience"
"WASHINGTON Three times, mainly by chance and in very different circumstances, Sgt. First Class Cory Remsburg has met President Obama..
Meeting No. 1 Normandy, France, was the site of the first interaction between Mr. Obama and Sergeant Remsburg, where they commemorated the 65th anniversary of the D-Day landing on June 6, 2009.
They were introduced near Omaha Beach in France in 2009, when Sergeant Remsburg was part of a select Army Ranger group chosen to re-enact a parachute drop for celebrations of the 65th anniversary of the D-Day landings in World War II. The second meeting came less than a year later at a military hospital outside Washington, where Mr. Obama was stunned to see among the wounded troops from Afghanistan a familiar young man now brain-damaged, a track of fresh stitches across his skull, and partly paralyzed.
The third time was two weeks ago in a private visit in Phoenix, where Sergeant Remsburg did something that neither Mr. Obama nor military doctors would once have predicted: he stood up and saluted his commander in chief."
snip//
"Former President George W. Bush and other commanders in chief paid many visits to the wounded, but Mr. Obamas intersections with one warriors life-altering path are unusual. Aides could not name any other wounded service member whom Mr. Obama has met three times, nor any other who first stood before the commander in chief in battle-ready prime.
For Sergeant Remsburg, the meetings have been very humbling, he said in a phone interview last weekend. For Mr. Obama, the soldier has come to personify the challenges endured by more than 50,000 men and women wounded in the two wars of the last decade, many facing recoveries that will last a lifetime, as the president recently said."
the rest..
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/us/politics/obama-and-a-soldier-3-meetings-and-a-lesson-in-resilience.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0
Heather Mac http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024405329
St Remsburg
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)relationship, not contrived at all and absolutely relevant.
Thanks Cha!!
Cha
(297,154 posts)compellingly poignant, relevant history of St Cory Remsburg's "resilience" and it's really sad that it would be ignorantly used to foment divisive shit on DU.
flamingem
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Yet, I come back to DU and I am so sad at what I am reading.
Cory was a hero that the President honored. They had a history of meets. What an awesome young man, so proud of what he did, yet DU takes that away from him. These DU'ers have never served... some maybe, yet they call him a tool. They disrespect him.
Breaks my heart Cha.
Cha
(297,154 posts).. the ugliness used to spread lies about the sincerity of Sgt Cory Remsburg and the President is expected of teabaggers but, you'd think others would be more thoughtful and want the whole story(read facts) before knee jerking into oblivion.
You're up early or stayed up late! she~
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)I'm up late and really must go soon.
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)I was both livid and sad by what I saw and I agree with the OP.
There is a lot going on in that Soldier's mind that many of you would never understand unless you've experienced it yourself. I detest the wars and I hated them, but the hardest and worst part of it all is/was coming home. I'm in a position now where I'll never go back, but there is nothing I want more right now than to go back to the very war I hated. To those of us who have deployed, going back to another deployment is like seeing an old friend and is a reprieve . Civilian life is hard and stressful. Wars are brutally simple and honest. You go out on your daily patrol and you either make it back or you don't. Too easy.
What should the President have done? Ignored the war and the people whose lives he has affected? (yes, I do know that he didn't start the war, but he has allowed it to continue). It's a shame that there is a war over there and that this Soldier was wounded for a BS cause, but at least he is being acknowledged. Coming home and realizing that most people don't give a damn about your sacrifice and your pain is something most of you have never experienced. The sense of alienation and isolation I feel as a civilian is astounding.
I joined the Army with a noble and misguided intent. I meant to make the world a better place and I believed that the Army would only be used as a force for good. I was 17 years old and was a complete product of my upbringing. I realize in hindsight that I was stupid to ever believe that, but at least I stepped forward and was willing to risk everything for a cause - something most people would never be willing to do.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)I wish you would start an OP with your post, especially this paragraph:
"What should the President have done? Ignored the war and the people whose lives he has affected? (yes, I do know that he didn't start the war, but he has allowed it to continue). It's a shame that there is a war over there and that this Soldier was wounded for a BS cause, but at least he is being acknowledged. Coming home and realizing that most people don't give a damn about your sacrifice and your pain is something most of you have never experienced. The sense of alienation and isolation I feel as a civilian is astounding."
There are lots of arrogant, doctrinaire assholes on this board who dare to speak of and for Cory Remsburg, portraying him as some sort of witless pawn and the President as some diabolical warmonger. Their condescension and insensibility never cease to amaze.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)them, no soldier would have had to be deployed ten times. Why didn't they go risk their lives for the cause they claimed to believe in?
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)They would not appreciate the "prop" "gimmick" "faux patriotism" posts. One thing I've recognized is that most of those service members just stay out of it. Part of me feels they are pained by the disingenuous posturing for internet points, another part just tells me they don't feel like getting involved because they know those here who make such posts are ignorant.
Thanks for your post and your sincere and thoughtful reply.
Obama as Commander in Chief could have unilaterally left Iraq and Afghanistan in a heart beat, literally one order, but he said at his nomination speech that he would do so "responsibly." Has he been slow on the uptake? No question. Has he been "irresponsible?" I don't think I am convinced of that. He had two wars handed to him and he had to consider how to get us out of the respective quagmires as best as possible. Maybe his intel was off, maybe he had bad advisers (likely), but I think Obama, the person, did everything he could to as quickly as possible remove troops from the wars they were embedded in by the previous administration. And I think the entire thing was conditioned on responsibly ending those wars, without leaving behind the mess the previous administration put him in. He said he wanted to train Afghani troops, he'll probably leave office with those trainers still working in Afghanistan. Is this a bad idea? Probably. Is it him wanting to make the best of a shitty situation with responsibility in mind? Certainly.
One can be wrong yet still have the best of intentions. It's when people start shitting on potential intentions, like, perhaps one might with your intention to serve your country, when people show their true character. And that's what you're seeing here in this thread.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Which is typical of Special Forces. If you were to actually add up all his time in combat it most likely would not be that much more than the typical combat arms soldier.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)So he was deployed 30-60 months. An Army guy in Afghanistan over 10 years would have been deployed 72 months. In Iraq 52 months. This is assuming a 12 month recoup time for Army, with no recoup time for rangers. In reality rangers get 1 day recoup (dwell) time for every day abroad, so you can half it to 15-30 months deployed, in reality, but the deployments probably varied.
The thing is that he was, as a ranger, in a very very hostile and debilitating territory. A lot of military men never even saw combat. This guy was at the front lines the entire time. It was only a matter of time before he got injured.
That should be the real takeaway, not that he went out 10 times, but that he was forced to go out 10 times. Showing that the US's war expansion was unsupportable from the beginning. And that's what Obama effectively said. No more war state.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Hmmm.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Not that right wingers would ever infiltrate DU and push that narrative.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)I haven't seen this much vitriol since the "let's impeach him for threatening Syria" freak out.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)majority of Americans actually agree with them. Trashing the president for honoring someone who volunteered and paid a very heavy price for it. Sometimes this place makes me as sick as freeperland does.
Phentex
(16,334 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Phentex
(16,334 posts)but another one.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)but I can't bring myself to be angry with the people who applauded.
The people who used this as yet another reason to attack President Obama are a different story. Them, I am angry with.
Mira
(22,380 posts)One of the saddest things is the phony "support our troops" lack of caring in our country. There should not have to be TV commercials asking for monthly contributions to make the lives of injured soldiers better. It makes me sick how they are left to flounder and without all the help they need in every single aspect of re-patriation (is that the correct word, must go look).
I looked, and yes, that's what I wanted to say.
madokie
(51,076 posts)neither do I. His story is inspirational.
I just hid WP thread as it was hard for me to even make it all the way through it.
Fuck this shit of taking every chance to bash the President. I don't agree with everything Obama says or does but dammit I agree way more than I disagree. With my feet planted firmly on solid ground I can see he is a god send in this world of hateful assholes we find ourselves in today.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I'm truly perplexed with what is going on here.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)I totally agree with you.
Bad enough he has to deal with the hateful assholes in Congress and the likes of the Stormfront fucks out there, but hearing the same kind of hateful words from 'democrats' and/or 'progressives' is grotesque.
Its easy for armchair warriors to talk shit when they have no inkling as to what War really is
Skittles
(153,150 posts)tell me WHY this man had to die
2 Jan 2014:
IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. NR-042-14
January 22, 2014
________________________________________
DOD Identifies Army Casualty
The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.
Chief Warrant Officer Edward Balli, 42, of Monterey, Calif., died Jan. 20, in Kandahar Province, Afghanistan, of wounds from small arms fire when he was attacked by insurgents.
Balli was assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Troop, 2nd Cavalry Regiment, U.S. Army Europe, Vilseck, Germany.
DID WE NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM VIET NAM?
madokie
(51,076 posts)He can't wave a wand and poof we're out of there.
If I remember right it took several years for my war to end, why I don't know. If I could change that I would but it takes the will of congress to do that
Just like closing Gitmo, he can't just close it. Last I read the congress wouldn't do it, threw up roadblocks at every turn.
I feel that if it was President Obama's call we'd been out of there 5 years ago. He understands what war is
Skittles
(153,150 posts)done
madokie
(51,076 posts)I don't want you opening up a can of whup-ass on me, I bruise easy
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Not that many here will care. We Democrats are only anti-war when the GOP is doing the killing.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)I am sick of the hypocrisy
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)whenever they need to whip up warm fuzzy feelings to help whatever it is they are selling go down more smoothly. It's getting old. Just my opinion.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)That's the only reason they do it.
They market wars the same way they market Chevy Trucks, with flag-waving and apple pie.
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)President Obama was correct to honor this hero
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)President Obama was correct in honoring this hero