One of my former students just committed suicide.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I taught him in second grade. He loved nature and bicycling. He was married. He joined the navy. He was about to be deployed for the second time. I can't help but feel he is one more of the American military's most common form of casualty. He will be missed. My heart aches for his family and friends.

[IdaBriggs]

1. ...

[NuclearDem]

2. "Hey, thanks for serving and what not. Hope you can deal with the trauma!"

[CherokeeDem]

3. So sorry for your loss....

and for his family. What's happening to the men and women who are serving this country is so very sad. May all of you who knew and loved him find peace in his memory.

[MrsKirkley]

4. How horrible. You and his family have my condolences.

[one_voice]

5. I'm sorry..

[Cirque du So-What]

6. This has been happening for awhile

It'll soon be 40 years since my last deployment, and although I was fortunate to have never been ordered to a 9-month (or longer) deployment, I heard about such suicides and so did most of my friends. There was an attempted suicide aboard my vessel, and we were only going to be away for six weeks.

[madokie]

7. So sorry for everyone's loss, yours, his family, us here at du and me here at home

its not right to be sending these kids off to second, sometimes third, fourth, fifth and more deployments to a war zone. Its just not right.
War never solves anything anyway especially when they're wars of choice to begin with. There was never a real objective in this war as there wasn't in my war. It sucks what we do with those who will step up and feel they must do their patriotic duty.


There has to be a better way to control population growth other than killing people off for mostly the already rich to further enrich themselves.

[Squinch]

8. I am so sorry.

[btrflykng9]

9. Very Sorry

How tragic. My thoughts are with his family and with you.

[magical thyme]

10. I am so sorry for your loss. Peace to you, and to your student's family and friends.

[Yo_Mama]

11. I'm very very sorry n/t

[davidpdx]

12. My condolences to you and to his family

Suicide in the military is an issue we need to pay more attention to. It is 100% preventable.

[proudretiredvet]

13. The things we ask our children to do are more than they can at times.

My last deployment was in 1993 to mogadishu somalia. It was not supposed to be but it was also my last combat deployment.
I'm retired military and also served 5 other combat deployments over the years. Each one was an emotional battle just leaving my family, hugging my daughters good by, and wondering if anything would ever be the same again.
While you are gone you know that;
About a 20% of your unit will get a dear john letter, will one have your name on it?
You can count on being there with at least one good friend when he learns that his wife is now with another man.
About 20% of your friends will have a loved one die at home and unless it is immediate family they will not be there for the funeral.
You know your spouse will be run ragged and pushed to their emotional limit. You know your kids will cry themselves to sleep some nights.
You know your spouse will cry herself to sleep many nights.
You know that you will watch some of your friends die on the battlefield.
You know that this new place will again change you and leave additional scars on your soul.
You know that when your short calendar is done and it is time to go home you will be scared of that too.
You know that it is going to seem as if everything has changed in the real life with family and friends and that once again you have to figure out how to fit in and become a part of it.

By the time you have been through this a few times just leaving everyone and everything you love is most of the battle. Some do not win that battle.

I'm so very sorry for this wonderful man and his family.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

15. All that and it includes none of what the solder is going through his or herself.

Thank you for your understanding and enlightenment.

Thank you to everyone who has replied.

[Ilsa]

14. I think we need to deploy most of Congress.

Some of them are gun nuts, and most of Congress isn't doing anything anyway, but pulling down bigger salaries than soldiers, etc. Let them feel the absence, the pain of being in a strange and dangerous place.

[grilled onions]

44. I Agree

The fools that continual vote for war extensions,create new wars should know exactly what it is like to leave family and friends to parts unknown to fight,often, an unknown enemy, fighting as the rules seem to change and just when you are back home they send you back out again. Meanwhile those who are the 'war starters" are safely at home having no idea of what our troops are going through.

[shenmue]

16. I am so sorry

Very sorry. Rest in peace.

[YoungDemCA]

17. So sorry

Absolutely heartbreaking. I'll be thinking about you!

[ReRe]

18. So very sad...

... I don't know if PO's policy is still not to honor soldiers who commit suicide, but that needs to change, like 5 years ago. My heart aches for this young man, his family and friends, as well as all the others.
A heart for you in honor of your former student.

[hotrod0808]

19. I mourn your loss

and empathize. My family approaches the first anniversary of the suicide of one of our best friends. He, too, was a veteran deployed multiple times as an infantry scout. Our best goes out to your student's family.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

22. You and your family have my sympathy.

Multiple deployments in war for profit is more than any sane person can endure.

[Agschmid]

20. Sorry for this loss.

[LoisB]

21. How many more do we have to lose before we get sick of this perpetual war? I am

so sorry for his family and you.

[Brigid]

23. For you, your student, and his friends and family:

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. how sad, i'm sorry

[flying rabbit]

25. No words.

[calimary]

26. Damn.

Just DAMN.

So sorry to hear this, DamnYankeeInHouston.

[arthritisR_US]

27. I am so sorry, breaks the heart ....

[MADem]

28. You don't know what caused him to kill himself; assuming doesn't help his family or honor him.

For all you know, his military service may have been the one thing that went right for him.

I had a sailor who worked for me, never once went in harm's way, avoided dangerous assignments or war-zone conflits, bounced from air-conditioned workcenter to air-conditioned workcenter, and was, sadly, afflicted with schizophrenia. He was separated from service and later committed "suicide by cop." He loved being in the military; his condition (aggravated by his inability to comply with anything resembling compliance with his medication schedule) resulted in his medical discharge/retirement. His mother told me she felt he put himself in a situation where he'd be gunned down BECAUSE he'd lost his military career, even though he had sufficient time in service to be retired, and wasn't left destitute, either monetarily or medically.

You don't know where the guy was being deployed--was he on a ship seeing the Western Pacific or the sunny Mediterranean? In an aviation squadron, forced to "endure" the rigors of Japan or Italy or (gasp-horror) Spain?

The assumption that every deployment "sucks" just "because/military" is one that many civilians (who know zip/zero/nada about military customs, culture or the All Volunteer Force) make. Plenty of servicemembers don't simply like their jobs, they love them. It's why they stay in past their enlistment contracts or commissioned service obligations.

No one is forced to join the military. In fact, in most branches, people are fighting to hang on to their jobs. The military is DOWNSIZING now. Pretty much anyone who wants to leave can just ask, and they'll be shown the door. Plenty who want to stay can't stay, because they're overmanned in some specialities, because they're culling out the too fat, the poor test takers, the occasional pot smokers, the surly or disobedient, and the ones who can't run fast enough or do a sufficient number of push ups.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

29. He was being deployed a second time. He was not being forced out.

There are more soldiers dying as suicides than as casualties.

[MADem]

30. He was in the NAVY. You do know that deployment is typical in military careers?

Expected? Not a surprise? This wasn't a shock to him--he knew his deployment rotation when he went to his advanced training after boot camp.

Perhaps you should also know that deployments happen a dozen or more times before an individual retires? And, as deployments go, most people would rather be in the Air Force or the Navy when they roll around?

And people who don't like the lifestyle can just NOT re-up at the end of their service obligation.

It's not conscription--it is a career. It pays well and many people like it.

This has nothing to do with being "forced out" or "forced to deploy."

People DO have emotional or mental health issues that are unrelated to their military schedule--that was my point that you apparently chose not to take.

[Logical]

32. And some ARE related which you seem not to accept! n-t

[MADem]

35. Well, that's not even slightly true.

I'm well aware of the military suicide issue; DOD has been aggressively tackling this subject for decades, now. It's a statistic that has been tracked for many years. Suicide prevention is a huge part of training for all branches and has been for many years.

My point is that there's been no evidence offered that military service caused his suicide. The assumption is made, rather pompously, and the very assumption reeks of mendacity at worst or unfairness at the very least.

He plainly was in the throes of mental distress; how that manifested itself is a mystery to us. His girlfriend could have dumped him, he may have had a well concealed personality disorder or other mental illness; he could have had personal issues--severe debt, drug addiction, criminal involvement of a dangerous sort-- that impacted his ability to deal honestly and openly with others; we just don't know. To pretend that we DO know--and to high handedly tie it all up in a "suicide because military" bow is foolish and wrong.

Making assumptions is just not "on." THAT is the point I am making.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

45. I'm taken aback by the hostil name calling.

I never stated that I knew the causes of my student's suicide. I only expressed my feelings.

[MADem]

46. Look, I am not "hostil" name calling.

I am simply tired, as many of us who served in the military are, of this constant drum beat that there is an automatic association with being in service and suicide. There isn't. You made the association between his service and his suicide in your OP, even as now you try to back away from it:

He joined the navy. He was about to be deployed for the second time. I can't help but feel he is one more of the American military's most common form of casualty.

Frankly, the military suicide rates started going UP when two things started happening. First, we had War Without End, Amen. Second, the standards for accession started going down. We can thank George Bush for that.

The Services are not sitting on their hands. They are working this issue each and every day.

What's been happening lately? First, Obama got us out of one war and is winding down another. Second, the standards for accession are going UP. What's the result? Suicide rates are going DOWN:

Pentagon data provided to Military Times show 296 suicides among active-duty troops and reserve or National Guard members on active duty in 2013, down 15.7 percent from the 2012 total of 351.

Coming off a record-setting year in 2012, the Navy had the biggest drop, nearly 22 percent, from 59 to 46 sailor deaths. The Army also saw a large decline, down nearly 19 percent from 185 suicides in 2012 to 150 last year.

The Air Force and Marine Corps both had near-record years in 2012; in 2013 they also experienced declines, with 55 airmen dying by suicide in 2013, down from 59 in 2012, and 45 Marines committing suicide in 2013, down from 48 the year before.

One suicide is one too many, but they happen in the civilian world, too. Without knowing this sailor's circumstances, it is not appropriate to speculate on why he took his life.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

48. "I cant help but feel..." Feel is the operative word.

I still feel that way.

[MADem]

49. Yes, you were opining.

And what you were opining is an oft-expressed but unsubstantiated view (your "feelings&quot that military causes suicide.

And you have come to that conclusion absent any evidence whatsoever.

Damn the data, full speed ahead....

Bias is "OK" when you're talking about some categories of people, I suppose.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

50. I started to research this since you called me pompous.

Traditionally, the military suicide rate was less than the general population, but that has changed in recent years. More active duty personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan died as suicides than as casualties. The most interesting number was that half of young vets who committed suicide did not serve in any combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Whether or not the military, or more likely war, causes suicide, something is seriously broken. It may be the multiple deployments or that soldiers are surviving mush worse injuries than in the past or that an all volunteer military has had to lower entrance requirements. I'm glad it is beginning to be addressed now. That's better than what the Vietnam vets ever got.

[MADem]

51. The link I offered addresses this.

The rate has been on a STEEP downward trend (and most compellingly in the Navy) since 2012.

As I said, combat or deployment is only one piece of the puzzle. The other piece is that standards were lowered--markedly in many instances--and individuals who would have been regarded as "low quality recruits" and kicked out within a year of accession -- if they were allowed in at all -- were kept onboard because there were severe end strength shortages, particularly during the Bush presidency.

They are pushing the "quality" personnel towards the Guard/Reserves, and they are using force shaping tools (kicking people out for being too fat, too slow on the PT test, failing to promote, getting in trouble, etc.) to unload the rest of the "excess." The USAF as well as the Army are on this track. Futher, they're jettisoning civilian assets as well.

FWIW, I did not call you "pompous." That is an inaccurate characterization. I said that the suggestion that this sailor (not soldier--ask any sailor, they'll tell you they aren't soldiers) killed himself because of his affiliation with the Navy was a pompous assumption. Specifically:

My point is that there's been no evidence offered that military service caused his suicide. The assumption is made, rather pompously, and the very assumption reeks of mendacity at worst or unfairness at the very least.

I didn't pin this on you specifically, either--there's plenty of that to go around, all over this and other boards. It's a "meme," and it is not accurate--as you yourself had reason to conclude when you see how many suicide victims never served in combat. For some, it's down to stress--military recruiters endure some of the worst stress of any uniformed personnel when their goals are set too high.

This kind of characterization of military personnel just doesn't help the people who need help, and it paints servicemembers as some sort of unhinged-Rambo "others" who are "outside" mainstream society. Nothing, in actual fact, could be further from the truth. Military volunteers come from our society, from all walks of life; urban, rural, rich, poor, and in-between. Some are looking for a job, some looking for security, some are 'legacies' from military families, some are looking to prove something to someone or themselves, and some are motivated by patriotism. The reasons are a varied as the recruits.

So few people have served in the military in the most recent generations, they don't appreciate or understand the realities of uniformed service--it's far too easy to resort to stereotypes culled from films and television, and too many people do just that.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

53. You were right and I was wrong.

I went to the sailor's, my former student's, memorial service yesterday. He loved being in the Navy. It was personal and marital problems that caused him to kill himself.

[MADem]

57. Doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things--he's gone, and people left behind are asking

themselves the big "Why?" and "Was there anything I shoulda/coulda done...?" questions.

Suicide just sucks no matter what motivates it. I hope his family gets the support they need and the friends he left behind give a thought to them every now and again.

If you've a mind to, a letter to his mother about what a swell kid he was and how much you enjoyed having him in class might help.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

58. I've already done that.

He was a rare and wonderful kid and a much appreciated man. It's such a sad waste.

[MADem]

59. Good for you. That was a great kindness on your part.

A lot of people would think it, but not bother to say it.

I will bet his family appreciates your sentiments, more than you realize.

[AnalystInParadise]

33. As a retired soldier myself

with multiple Iraq deployments (4) I am curious what he did in the Navy. If he was fleet and not shore based, I would not suspect his fleet time led to his suicide. If he was shore based, it is possible. But deployments are expected. I did 4 to Iraq and 4 other deployments in 20 years. 1 to Kuwait, 1 to Bosnia, 1 to Kosovo and 1 to HOA. 8 deployments in a 20 year career is not unexpected. I was in the military for 8 years of peacetime (prior to 9/11) and did just as many peacetime tours(4 in 8 years) as war time tours (4 in 12 years.) If you join the military, you should expect to be gone almost half the time, either in peacetime or war time, that is part of the job.

I have seen terrible things and had a raging case of PTSD a few years ago. I wish to know more of this situation, not all suicides by military personnel are related to military service, and the odds of a Navy person (unless they are a Navy Seal) being in combat or other traumatic situations from this war is extremely small.

[MADem]

34. +1 nt

[B Calm]

39. Exactly, deployment in the Navy could be a six month Mediterranean cruise.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

40. I understand that the Navy can be a cake walk compared to the Army.

My grandfather told his sons to join the Navy in WW2 after serving in the Army's trenches in WW1. It may have been the close quarters were too much for an avid outdoorsman. He may have been suffering from psychological problems. He may have not wanted to serve the war machine any longer. He was facing eminent deployment. I do not feel pompous to think there might be a connection in light of so many military suicides. Your condolences are appreciated.

[B Calm]

41. One thing you don't have to do is march 13 miles with 50 pounds of

body armor on. In the Navy you get a nice clean bed to sleep in every night and 3 very good meals a day. Not only all that, you also get to travel all around the world and get paid for it. Why anybody would join the Army, is beyond me!

[MADem]

47. This is true, and "hot racking" is pretty much a thing of the past with SMART SHIPS technology.

(Hot racking, for anyone not aware of the term, is when two or more sailors have to "share" a bed--take turns--because there's not enough "racks" --i.e. beds--on the vessel.)

Accommodations are a bit less crowded than they were even a few years back, but the quarters are still tight. Privacy curtains in the enlisted quarters certainly help and the new rack designs make the most of space. Officers are luckier, they often share a cramped stateroom in their early years, but there is more privacy.

The food was always decent, too--even as some griped about the "bug juice!"

When the USN sucks is when your ship gets hit at sea, and you're swimming with the sharks waiting for someone to come along and scoop you up, assuming you survive to that point. Fortunately, that's not a common occurrence in this century, but that's the risk/benefit equation. Also, if you get seasick, it might not be the best job! I wouldn't have enjoyed another service so much as I did the USN, but I will admit to prejudice on that score.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

31. There are people with psychological issues in all walks of life.

Of course I cannot rule out the possibility that the problems that led to his suicide may have been solely within him and not a direct result of his military service. However, the evidence in his life as well as in the continual news of so many suicides in the armed forces raises serious questions. He had so much to live for. He was an outstanding athlete and outdoorsman. He was newly married. He planned to go to college after his service in the Navy. The military suicide rate is disturbing. I suspect it is considerably higher than the general population.

[blkmusclmachine]

36. Sad. Serving in the US military is little more than working for Big Oil and the MIC anymore.

[merrily]

37. I am sorry for his loss.

[raven mad]

38. Altogether too many, any more............

[TheMathieu]

42. Suicide sucks. I'll be thinking of you, OP. nt

[HappyMe]

43. I am so very sorry.

[IrishAyes]

52. I caught your OP title several days ago but couldn't handle it then.

Short but moving tribute. While I never soldiered, I come from a military family and lived at least the first 2/3 of my life as an Army brat, then Army wife. Got some idea of what goes on. It can be tough all around. Though it was made during WWII, John Huston's film 'Let There Be Light' applies today. I'd suggest it to anyone interested in seeing an in-depth study.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

54. Thank you for your reply.

It turns out, in this case, it wasn't the American war machine at fault as I had assumed. I went to his memorial service yesterday and found out more. He loved being in the Navy. It was personal and marital problems that caused him to commit suicide. It doesn't make me love our military any more, but I have to give it a pass this time. He was a great kid with so much promise. it is a great loss.

[IrishAyes]

56. The suicide that haunts me most happened on a stateside military base years ago. You probably know

how vulnerable many of the troops and their families are to the payday loan sharks that cluster around a lot of military bases. Anyway, the father deployed and the family was mired in debt. This little boy no more than 8 or 10 years old killed himself and left a note explaining it was so the family would have one less mouth to feed. I'll never get over that.

[Eleanors38]

55. This is so sad. Teaching someone, then losing them is a special pain.