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Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:08 PM Feb 2014

Couple takes dog for walk, finds $10-million in buried coins

Couple takes dog for walk, finds real-life ‘pot of gold at the end of the rainbow’: $10-million in buried coins






Nearly all of the 1,427 coins, dating from 1847 to 1894, are in uncirculated, mint condition


LOS ANGELES — A California couple out walking their dog on their stumbled across a modern-day bonanza: US$10-million in rare, mint-condition gold coins buried in the shadow of an old tree.

Nearly all of the 1,427 coins, dating from 1847 to 1894, are in uncirculated, mint condition, said David Hall, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service of Santa Ana, which recently authenticated them. Although the face value of the gold pieces only adds up to about $27,000, some of them are so rare that coin experts say they could fetch nearly US$1-million apiece.

“I don’t like to say once-in-a-lifetime for anything, but you don’t get an opportunity to handle this kind of material, a treasure like this, ever,” said veteran numismatist Don Kagin, who is representing the finders. “It’s like they found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.”


Kagin, whose family has been in the rare-coin business for 81 years, would say little about the couple other than that they are husband and wife, are middle-aged and have lived for several years on the rural property where the coins were found. They have no idea who put them there, he said.


-------

Kagin and McCarthy would say little about the couple’s property or its ownership history, other than it’s in a sprawling hilly area of Gold Country, as the region that was the site of the 1849 Gold Rush is known. The coins were found along a path the couple had walked for years. On the day they found them last spring, the woman had bent over to examine an old rusty can that erosion had caused to pop slightly out of the ground.

“Don’t be above bending over to check on a rusty can,” he said she told him.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/25/couple-takes-dog-for-walk-finds-real-life-pot-of-gold-at-the-end-of-the-rainbow-10-million-in-buried-coins/

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Couple takes dog for walk, finds $10-million in buried coins (Original Post) Liberal_in_LA Feb 2014 OP
that's so cool warrior1 Feb 2014 #1
Their land and not stolen. pipoman Feb 2014 #4
I guess so Go Vols Feb 2014 #5
Typically Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #53
This isn't underwater discovery, where ownership of the land is unclear. pnwmom Feb 2014 #59
I'm not certain, but I think that refined gold Jenoch Feb 2014 #65
Even so, you don't get to secretly bury money on land and retain rights to it pnwmom Feb 2014 #70
I that's what I said when I said mineral rights do not apply in this situation. Jenoch Feb 2014 #75
I'm aware it wasn't under water. Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #79
Well, gold is a mineral and they did some digging to find it. pnwmom Feb 2014 #81
Seems fair. Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #89
Uh-huh. Sorry. This story doesn't pass my bullshit detector. closeupready Feb 2014 #2
I know! Those coins should have some rust on them or something! snooper2 Feb 2014 #3
Gold doesn't rust or corrode Silent3 Feb 2014 #6
I kind of knew that FYI snooper2 Feb 2014 #9
Sorry! Missed the smiley... Silent3 Feb 2014 #12
All US gold coins from that era contain 90% gold Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #106
Heh. WinkyDink Feb 2014 #62
Ummm 2naSalit Feb 2014 #80
trying to think of another story. ..can't think of one pipoman Feb 2014 #7
Ye olde school "Doomsday Prepper?" 1000words Feb 2014 #10
Face value $27,000; mid-19th century. Life savings of someone who didn't trust banks. Hekate Feb 2014 #73
'would be missed if stolen' - I suppose. closeupready Feb 2014 #11
they weren't found in Los Angeles Beaverhausen Feb 2014 #25
Not if the cache was stolen from the type of person who can't call the cops... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #90
They found the coins one year ago. Jenoch Feb 2014 #91
Amazon might not see as many of them as the article indicates DFW Feb 2014 #93
Yep, I have bought and sold through Heritage pipoman Feb 2014 #104
Heritage has a wholesale department for the common stuff, too DFW Feb 2014 #109
Agreed. .Under these circumstances pipoman Feb 2014 #132
In the meantime, I got an email from someone who talked with Don Kagin about this DFW Mar 2014 #143
You know David Hall and Don Kagin? Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #108
Sure do. Very well, in fact. DFW Feb 2014 #110
I think the Bowler hat is still the hat of choice Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #111
You know, I think you're right! DFW Feb 2014 #113
Heritage often sends people to the TICC coin show in Tokyo Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #114
I haven't been there, of course DFW Feb 2014 #115
The only one I remember from Heritage at TICC Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #116
Debbie from Marketing!! DFW Feb 2014 #117
At the next show, I'll tell her I met you on the Internet Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #118
She's only been in an out of that airport a zillion times DFW Feb 2014 #119
So she'll say, "You met the Dallas airport on the Internet? How nice" Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #121
Yeah, I don't think of her accent as very Hungarian LOL DFW Feb 2014 #122
So why would ANY of them be sold on amazon? Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #125
Mystery to me DFW Feb 2014 #127
That type of person shouldn't be trifled with pipoman Feb 2014 #107
Depending on how intricate the plan Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #124
It's apparently true: a local article in the San Francisco Chronicle frazzled Feb 2014 #8
Why is that? Lots of people buried gold coins in the past. MineralMan Feb 2014 #17
Many farmers had "post hole banks". trof Feb 2014 #36
Yes. MineralMan Feb 2014 #57
Back in 1985, a significant coin hoard was found in Jackson, Tennessee Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #112
Gold find In jackson tn Little john Nov 2017 #145
Is he looking for something to invest in? Welcome to DU. marble falls Nov 2017 #146
Why not? seveneyes Feb 2014 #18
You may want to check the batteries in your bullshit detector. nt Earth_First Feb 2014 #40
Kagin again?? Jesus Malverde Feb 2014 #74
Kagin was scammed along with others DFW Feb 2014 #96
+1000....This whole thing SCREAMS "scam"... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #84
The way I look at it is what is the easier Jenoch Feb 2014 #92
It doesn't seem like a scam at all DFW Feb 2014 #98
And it was conveniently "discovered" on their property as well... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #126
They waited almost a year DFW Feb 2014 #128
My theory: Joaquin Murrieta was never really killed, and continued his career petronius Feb 2014 #13
Search over for cache of the Knights of the Golden Circle? HereSince1628 Feb 2014 #14
Lucky for them they were found on their own property. MineralMan Feb 2014 #15
property bought a few years ago. no claim to gold by prior owners? Liberal_in_LA Feb 2014 #139
When I buy property the sale includes mineral rights. Gold is a mineral, right? n/t oneshooter Feb 2014 #140
So let me guess...the dog was KurtNYC Feb 2014 #16
DUzy!!! Best reply yet Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #23
I Literally Laughed Out Loud Leith Feb 2014 #39
Win! DeSwiss Feb 2014 #50
I think it's a clever money laundering trick rhett o rick Feb 2014 #19
Okaaaaaay. WinkyDink Feb 2014 #63
Cool. I got WinkyDink's vote. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #86
Because the uncirculated coins were so easy to get. Yeah. aquart Feb 2014 #83
LOL. I know. With out raise suspicions. I was just kidding. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #85
Or maybe a way to just dump more coins on the market Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #88
There are hundreds of thousands of coins still untouched DFW Feb 2014 #100
Whozagooddoggie? progressoid Feb 2014 #20
Lol nt greyl Feb 2014 #41
that's a lot different than what i 'find' when i walk my dogs. pardon me, but xchrom Feb 2014 #21
LOLOLOL! rusty fender Feb 2014 #131
Number one rule of treasure hunting……….. safeinOhio Feb 2014 #22
They have to know who it is first Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #24
Good thinking pinboy3niner Feb 2014 #28
Lol Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #30
Haul that big, you can't. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #43
Lots of ways safeinOhio Feb 2014 #51
Treasury Dept. keeps a close eye on those. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #54
It is part of my job to detect and spot fakes DFW Feb 2014 #133
I'm with you - dummy up. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #64
I'm 100% sure the official story on how these coins were "found" is bullshit Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #87
Thats IT!!! bvar22 Feb 2014 #26
Oh right!!! THAT's where I put them ... please send them back, I'll pay postage! JoePhilly Feb 2014 #27
Damn … I knew I left them somewhere. Auggie Feb 2014 #29
I have to say, it seems wrong to me that they're going to be taxed 40% on this windfall. reformist2 Feb 2014 #31
Yeah, so? Scuba Feb 2014 #34
Republican!!!!! CFLDem Feb 2014 #35
ok, I have a geek confession wyldwolf Feb 2014 #32
An additional benefit of having a dog. Scuba Feb 2014 #33
Would a cat have found the gold? I don't THINK so Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #37
Oh, absolutely they would. eggplant Feb 2014 #44
Exactly. My cat would not have bothered to tell me. Too much effort. anneboleyn Feb 2014 #142
Unless you have a slacker dog, like my two. pnwmom Mar 2014 #144
...and they told someone about it because??? NightWatcher Feb 2014 #38
There's a reason they are probably better off reporting the whole thing DFW Feb 2014 #101
Be very careful.... penndragon69 Feb 2014 #42
They're donning their battle gear as we speak... pinboy3niner Feb 2014 #45
Bwahahahahaha! countryjake Feb 2014 #77
Am I wrong, Jenoch Feb 2014 #46
I think they have to pay taxes today based on current value. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #66
If so, it would only be because the Jenoch Feb 2014 #69
Probably stashed right around the time it became illegal VScott Feb 2014 #47
Probably not DFW Feb 2014 #99
This message was self-deleted by its author VScott Feb 2014 #130
I take my dog for a walk twice every day...... llmart Feb 2014 #48
the horde wasn't found in So. Cal shanti Feb 2014 #60
awesome story!!!! Those old gold coins are valuable!! GRACIEBIRD Feb 2014 #49
How wonderful malaise Feb 2014 #52
What a fantastic find!!! greytdemocrat Feb 2014 #55
So, so, so I found a 60 pound diamond in my yard and it sang hymns when I touched it SummerSnow Feb 2014 #56
It is good to walk your dog!! roody Feb 2014 #58
wow, every treasure hunters dream onethatcares Feb 2014 #61
Great story, talk about a gold rush...don't forget to give the dog something special. Jefferson23 Feb 2014 #67
California Lost Treasures Zorra Feb 2014 #68
Interesting that the latest dated coin in this hoard was dated 1894 DFW Feb 2014 #102
One of the few thread titles on DU that I actually looked forward to clicking geckosfeet Feb 2014 #71
I hate it when that happens! Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #72
There have been a number of smaller scale versions of this in the Gold Country. Xithras Feb 2014 #76
There are probably more stashes like this all over the world DFW Feb 2014 #95
It may be Ron Swanson gold JeffHead Feb 2014 #78
Pleasant walk. aquart Feb 2014 #82
All my dog found was a dead bunny TorchTheWitch Feb 2014 #94
Yes Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #97
And the auction results won't be nearly as sastisfying pinboy3niner Feb 2014 #103
"I would prefer the dead bunny and the burger king trash, myself" Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #134
about the only thing my dog finds on our walks belcffub Feb 2014 #105
All the people crying "Scam!" kentauros Feb 2014 #120
LOL I'm sure there is plenty of that DFW Feb 2014 #135
Well, I hope they get as much for the coins they're selling as they can. kentauros Feb 2014 #136
Truly an amazing part TacoD Feb 2014 #123
RIP Huell Liberal_in_LA Feb 2014 #138
I'm jealous, I love a good treasure hunt Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #129
*drool* Jamastiene Feb 2014 #137
25 years ago I found a 1939 World's Fair Medallion buried in our garden Orrex Feb 2014 #141

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
5. I guess so
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:16 PM
Feb 2014
They plan to put most of the coins up for sale through Amazon while holding onto a few keepsakes. They'll use the money to pay off bills and quietly donate to local charities, Kagin said.

Before they sell them, they are loaning some to the American Numismatic Association for its National Money Show, which opens Thursday in Atlanta.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-couple-strikes-10-million-gold-coin-jackpot/
 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
53. Typically
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:36 PM
Feb 2014

At least in underwater discovery. The artifacts are arrested by a court while any possible owners are sorted. That includes any insurance companies as well that may have paid a claim.

If none are found its finders keepers

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
59. This isn't underwater discovery, where ownership of the land is unclear.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 08:43 PM
Feb 2014

If they own the land, they own any "mineral rights."

Except in the very unlikely event they bought they property without them.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
65. I'm not certain, but I think that refined gold
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:17 PM
Feb 2014

minted into legal tender would not fall under mineral rights.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
70. Even so, you don't get to secretly bury money on land and retain rights to it
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:34 PM
Feb 2014

upon your death. That person's estate was settled a long time ago, and the coins went with the land they were buried on.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
75. I that's what I said when I said mineral rights do not apply in this situation.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:48 PM
Feb 2014

People find valuable things in houses all the time. The previous owner of the house does not retain any ownership rights.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
79. I'm aware it wasn't under water.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:21 PM
Feb 2014

That was the similar case I witnessed. Perhaps that got lost in translation.



Since the find is not produced by the ground, do mineral rights still apply?

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
81. Well, gold is a mineral and they did some digging to find it.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:34 PM
Feb 2014


I have no idea whether this technically falls under the category of mineral rights. But this isn't like an underwater situation where the land is publicly owned (or in international waters). These people owned their land, so other people can't come forward and claim they have a right to what was found on it, buried hundreds of years ago.

Silent3

(15,206 posts)
6. Gold doesn't rust or corrode
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:19 PM
Feb 2014

That's part of what makes it so valuable in the first place.

These coins are probably not pure gold, but lack of corrosion is still not surprising, and not, in and of itself, a reason to doubt the story.

2naSalit

(86,577 posts)
80. Ummm
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:33 PM
Feb 2014

I don't think gold, high quality kind, would rust. and If contained away from any agents (chemicals) that would corrode it, wouldn't have that happen.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
7. trying to think of another story. ..can't think of one
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:21 PM
Feb 2014

Other than they were found on property other than their own. This kind of cache would be missed if stolen.

Hekate

(90,662 posts)
73. Face value $27,000; mid-19th century. Life savings of someone who didn't trust banks.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:41 PM
Feb 2014

What a find!

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
11. 'would be missed if stolen' - I suppose.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:27 PM
Feb 2014

Just something about finding buried treasure in Los Angeles, the most overdeveloped part of the US, hard to fathom.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
90. Not if the cache was stolen from the type of person who can't call the cops...
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 11:03 PM
Feb 2014

I wouldn't have been so suspicious if he didn't instantly announce his plan to sell them online; which means he's trying to cash in ASAP...

Amazon, lol...Yeah, don't bother taking such an incredible find to a high-end auction house and get top dollar for them -- They might get recognized real quick....

DFW

(54,369 posts)
93. Amazon might not see as many of them as the article indicates
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 03:36 AM
Feb 2014

I know both David Hall and Don Kagin. They will both be advising the people how to max out. Don will be doing this for a percentage, and selling them willy nilly on Amazon is NOT the best way to max out. My friends at Heritage Auction in Dallas have been contacted, so there are some better pieces in there that Amazon won't have the right collectors for. Serious collectors do not buy their stuff on Amazon. They DO go to Heritage and companies like that which have the necessary expertise to recognize which pieces are really important.

Also, the latest dated piece was from 1894, when the USA was still minting millions of gold coins every year. I saw the photos, and the are consistent with coin burials from the era. US gold coins were 90% gold and 10% copper. Sometimes the alloy was carelessly done, but mostly it was a well-manufactured product, so there will be some guck to get off the surface, but no corrosion. The value to a collector will depend on there not being damage to the surface, so an ultra sound, or that plus a chemical cleaning that does not damage the surface will have to be conducted.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
104. Yep, I have bought and sold through Heritage
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:37 AM
Feb 2014

Based on the article, there are some coins possibly worth as much as $1 million. ..the estimate for the entire find is 10 million. ..There are 1400 coins. This means that the majority are far more common. Heritage and other specialty auction houses are not where to take common stuff unless you are selling for bullion prices. Common coins, especially since this cache has been so publicized, stand to realize a premium over bullion value selling to non collectors and amateurs. Additional premiums for common coins could be realized if they are set in jewelry findings.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
109. Heritage has a wholesale department for the common stuff, too
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:58 AM
Feb 2014

Their auction department would be the ones to go to for a mint state 1866-S no motto $20, but if there are 1876-S $20 in AU, their wholesale department does that stuff for a margin of 3% or so.

Plus they actually have a heart. I have mentioned this before, but when an Iraq vet in the Midwest somewhere found he had bought an original copy of the Federalist Papers at a flea market for nothing, and sent it to Heritage to sell for him, they got $90,000 or so for it, and when they found out he was a penniless Iraq vet and this was all the money he had in the world, they waived their fees and gave him an extra 10%. Pretty decent gesture for people used to dealing with millionaires.

Recently, a 102 year old guy who had started collecting in the 1920s sold his collection through them. He had spent something like a total of $7500 putting together his U.S. silver coin collection in the 1930s and they got him $23 million when they auctioned it off. He was going to use all of the money for some educational foundation (he's still completely compos mentis apparently), so it was cool to see his collection go for that kind of money.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
132. Agreed. .Under these circumstances
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 05:00 PM
Feb 2014

It reminds me of those infomercial sales for common coins at twice their value. Inexperienced people just wanting a piece of this story would likely pay more than the value. I think I would sell the common ones on amazon or ebay. I have bought US coin silver on ebay cheaper than I could buy from dealers. I wouldn't sell it on eBay (without some extenuating circumstances like in this story) because the commission exceeds the margin held by wholesale buyers usually. I have never gotten big into coin collecting, I have done some speculation on the tangible metals market and along the way picked up some coins with collectable value.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
143. In the meantime, I got an email from someone who talked with Don Kagin about this
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:52 PM
Mar 2014

Contrary to expectations (and/or logic) Kagin really does plan to offer the bulk of these coins on Amazon. He thinks the exposure will amount to 200 million people finding out who he is (big deal). For much of this material, you're right--the seller's commission for the common stuff he will have to pay Amazon will exceed what he could have gotten for the owners by wholesaling them directly to heritage or some similar outfit (Heritage at least has the financing to pay up front, not so sure about the rest). But Kagin thinks this will put him more on the map (of what, don't ask me), and so he's going ahead with it.

This happens all the time when fresh deals like this pop up in the hands of people who need a guiding hand on how to dispose of their newly-found fortune. One can't blame them for not knowing where to go, who would? I remember about 20 years ago, some guys found a shipwreck off the coast of California with a bunch of well-preserved gold coins. The guys from Heritage submitted a cash offer to buy the whole thing, but the owners let themselves get sweet-talked by a rival company into letting them auction the coins off instead. The owners went for the fancy talk, put their deal up for auction, and when the whole deal brought less than Heritage had offered up front, they left the auction room grumbling. But that's the way it works. They took their chances and guessed wrong. Whether or not Kagin's little scheme with Amazon will work is anyone's guess. But he has been touting the deal as $10 million in public for a while now, and if it "only" brings $7 million where he had a chance to get more for the owners, then he did them a disservice. But at least it was their choice of disservice.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
108. You know David Hall and Don Kagin?
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:56 AM
Feb 2014

I am impressed. They are two of the very biggest names in US numismatics

DFW

(54,369 posts)
110. Sure do. Very well, in fact.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:03 AM
Feb 2014

I even played guitar duets with David Hall in the PCGS offices where he had a couple of Les Pauls and Fender amps set up. I met David back in the early 1970s when he used to travel around in purple suits and a matching bowler hat. I bet not too many people know that, and I'll bet he hopes not too many people remember it, either! And Don's dad, Art, was an offbeat guest as my 24th birthday party in 1976 (long story), so I've known Don for almost 40 years, too.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
111. I think the Bowler hat is still the hat of choice
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:08 AM
Feb 2014

for J. H. Cline. I don't think he wears purple suits, though

DFW

(54,369 posts)
113. You know, I think you're right!
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:17 AM
Feb 2014

Our paths have crossed, but I don't really know the guy. I don't think you'll see David on too many purple suits either these days. But back in the 1970s, he was quite a character. He has had quite a career, many ups and downs, lucking out with the creation of PCGS, although it is a little known fact that they were cracking under the strain when they first started, and the guys at Heritage, who had great organizational skills, were sending people up to Newport Beach once a week in the beginning phases just to help them figure out how to organize the juggernaut they had created. Also, when he got remarried about the same time as creating PCGS, David's new wife--she's from Montréal--brought him some much-needed stability.

As you might have figured out from my being from Dallas, Jim Halperin, Greg Rohan and Steve Ivy of Heritage are all friends, too.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
114. Heritage often sends people to the TICC coin show in Tokyo
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:21 AM
Feb 2014

and PCGS often has a representative there. I don't think I've met any of their biggest names there, though.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
116. The only one I remember from Heritage at TICC
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:51 AM
Feb 2014

is a petite, blonde-haired lady who speaks with an accent.

The next TICC show is in about 2 months.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
117. Debbie from Marketing!!
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:58 AM
Feb 2014

I know her. Yes, her accent is kinda heavy. But she's very smart and a lot of fun.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
118. At the next show, I'll tell her I met you on the Internet
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:02 AM
Feb 2014

Although I kind of doubt that "DFW" will ring a bell with her

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
107. That type of person shouldn't be trifled with
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:50 AM
Feb 2014

and I suspect someone who robbed that type of person would avoid detection at all costs, and certainly wouldn't be alerting the media.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
124. Depending on how intricate the plan
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 12:13 PM
Feb 2014

sometimes alerting the media is the best 'insurance' to buy...

Especially if (for argument's sake) the couple in the OP are just the conduit and not the actual thieves...

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
17. Why is that? Lots of people buried gold coins in the past.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:40 PM
Feb 2014

Then, they die, and nobody knows where they were buried.

This isn't the first time people have found a cache like this on their own property. Lucky day for this couple.

trof

(54,256 posts)
36. Many farmers had "post hole banks".
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:41 PM
Feb 2014

Pull up a fence post, dig the hole a little deeper, drop in a weatherproof (canning jar) container of coins or bills, drop in the jar, put the post back in.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
112. Back in 1985, a significant coin hoard was found in Jackson, Tennessee
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:17 AM
Feb 2014

by construction workers. No one knows how much that find was worth because most of it was split up and sold secretly.

http://acdwyer.com/stories/tennessee-hoard-of-gold-coins-page-1.php

 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
18. Why not?
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:40 PM
Feb 2014

It sounds like they got lucky and should get to keep every penny worth for themselves and family.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
96. Kagin was scammed along with others
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 04:20 AM
Feb 2014

Don inherited plenty from Art, and he does OK by himself. He advised the people from the SS Republic for a modest percentage, and they did just fine. He doesn't need to deliberately get involved in a scam. We're not exactly best of friends, but I know him well enough to know he wouldn't risk blowing his rep for any one deal like that. Besides, he is probably the most knowledgeable guy in California that would NOT screw the people who found the coins. I know of several "prominent" coin companies out there to whom I would not even send Mitt Romney or Donald Trump.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
84. +1000....This whole thing SCREAMS "scam"...
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:41 PM
Feb 2014

Either those coins are from a heist and/or the true owner enlisted a couple of shills to sell them by proxy without anybody asking questions...

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
92. The way I look at it is what is the easier
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 11:31 PM
Feb 2014

story to believe. I think it is much more likely that the story of finding the coins buried is true, otherwise what are the chances that the coins would still be together after all these years.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
98. It doesn't seem like a scam at all
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 04:50 AM
Feb 2014

It's perfectly possible a stash like this was stuck away in 1894 and never found. The encrustation and storage are consistent with the 1890s, and the concentration of S-mint coinage is, too. If it had all been Philadephia mint coinage, it would be suspicious, and Denver mint stuff would have been especially suspicious, as it wasn't even established until 1906 (the mint at San Francisco was established in 1854, and unofficial mints were making coins there since the start of the gold rush).

Stashes like this show up every now and then. The SS Brother Jonathan, with hundreds of $20 gold pieces from 1863-1865, all San Francisco mint, was found off the coast of San Francisco about 20 years ago.

On a smaller scale, I met a family in North Carolina that inherited a wreck of a house on Long Island. It caught fire, and 90% of it was lost. In the 10% that didn't burn, they found an old chest of drawers. Behind one of the drawers was a pair of leather pouches. In the bigger one was a small group of old silver coins from France. They took them to a local dealer in North Carolina who had no clue what they were worth. He contacted a dealer in California (not Kagin) who checked with a colleague in France. The guy in Paris offered $109,000 based on the photos. The guy in California offered the NC deraler $9000, wanting to keep $100,000 for himself, and the dealer in North Carolina offered the family half that, i.e. $4500. Now THAT would have been a scam.

Luckily, the people contacted another dealer in NC for a second opinion. He contacted Heritage in Dallas, who auctioned off the coins for the family for $182,000, so happy ending.

There was another marketing scam in the late 1990s where 20,000 $20 gold coins minted in Philadelphia and dated 1908 were "found" in a Well Fargo branch in Nevada. They were genuine, but were marketed as "Wells Fargo Nevada Gold" even though the Wells Fargo branch where the deal was concluded hadn't even been opened until 1956. Also, one of the very first ads marketing the coins as an "investment" at $2950 each mentioned that the group of coins had been "intact since 1917." The ex-KGB guys, or whoever the real "owners" were, must have gone ballistic when they saw that, because all subsequent marketing dropped all references to the year 1917. The original marketers must have thought no one in America had any idea what happened in Russia in 1917. A guy I knew (now retired) from the Russian State Bank told me that some clever KGB guys made plans to abscond with hundreds of tons of old gold coins when the Soviet Union started falling apart, and it was done in such a manner that there was nothing the current Russian government could do about it.

This deal in California, on the other hand, looks to be legit.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
126. And it was conveniently "discovered" on their property as well...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 12:27 PM
Feb 2014

It all just lines up too cleanly...If this thing is legit, why even bother to inform the media? Just get them appraised, auctioned off and quietly collect the money....

DFW

(54,369 posts)
128. They waited almost a year
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 01:11 PM
Feb 2014

And it doesn't sound like the family is the one who informed the media

It sounds more like it was the people trying to market the coins, trying to pump a little romanticism into the coins. Happens all the time. When they found the Brother Jonathan off San Francisco, those coins were pedigreed to the ship. Same with the SS Central America. If there were years of coins in exceptional condition that never appear in high grade, tying them to this find with a pedigree could both pinpoint the find as well as assure anyone buying them that there are not ten thousand similar pieces behind it, which could diminish the value the end user is paying. With some finds, there were many more coins than originally reported, and investors buying them got screwed when it turned out there were many more than originally reported, and the rarity was exaggerated. By being out front with the origin and the content of the find, not only are the marketers being straight with their customers, but the buyers are getting fair market value.

It is more involved than just finding a bunch of gold bars and calculating the value. When you get involved with collector value over and above the gold value, you have to balance the interests of the seller with those of your buyers so as to avoid defrauding the buyers with false info.

*on edit--I looked at some of the articles on it and saw a perfect example. I don't know how much you know about old US gold coins, but there was a picture of an 1886-S ten dollar gold piece from this group in MS-66 condition, woth who knows? Maybe $7000 to $10,000? Now, 1886-S is a very common piece, worth maybe $700 to $750 in average condition. However, MS-66 is an amazingly high pristine grade of preservation. Most years aren't even known that well preserved, and 1886-S is one of them. To a collector, this is a huge deal, but only if there aren't suddenly 600 of them on the market. The article said there were only a few dozen ten dollar pieces of all dates, so there won't be. A collector seeing the sudden appearance of an MS-66 ten dollar piece of 1886-S would ask where the hell did THAT suddenly appear from. Getting the whole picture would reassure the buyer and legitimize the value.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
13. My theory: Joaquin Murrieta was never really killed, and continued his career
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:35 PM
Feb 2014

of banditry for another 40+ years. This is his horde.

Amazing find!

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
14. Search over for cache of the Knights of the Golden Circle?
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:37 PM
Feb 2014

Frick! That'll wreck the History Channel, and will really piss off the guys on the Hoffman crew!

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
15. Lucky for them they were found on their own property.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:38 PM
Feb 2014

That simplifies everything.

Good fortune for them!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
19. I think it's a clever money laundering trick
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:57 PM
Feb 2014

They probably made $10 million selling crack and this is how they make it legitimate. Just sayin'

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
88. Or maybe a way to just dump more coins on the market
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:50 PM
Feb 2014

I've heard for years the commercials on radio from the "New York Mint" or whoever, and figure that there can't be *that* many more undiscovered stashes in 100-year-old unopened Swiss/Austrian bank vaults...

DFW

(54,369 posts)
100. There are hundreds of thousands of coins still untouched
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 05:02 AM
Feb 2014

I work with central banks as part of my work, and I have personally seen 80,000 old US gold coins sitting in the gold reserves of just one country we consider third world, and know of at least one other central bank that has at least that many.

Ironically, there are probably few hoards left in Switzerland (Austria? where did that come from?), as most of those stashes belonged to private people who sold them over the last 60 years.

Whatever you hear on commercials on TV, don't believe a word of it. Just sing to yourself, "It Ain't Necessarily So...."

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
21. that's a lot different than what i 'find' when i walk my dogs. pardon me, but
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:06 PM
Feb 2014

i'm gonna go yell at my dogs.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
131. LOLOLOL!
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 04:27 PM
Feb 2014


Yeah, my dogs have turned up a lot of dirt in the yard, but nothing there to "take to the bank."

safeinOhio

(32,674 posts)
22. Number one rule of treasure hunting………..
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:07 PM
Feb 2014

keep mouth shut. There will be claims by others. Most claims will be false, but can tie up the booty for years. Former owners of the property will have claims. Ancestors of anyone robbed a hundred years ago will have claims. Anyone that can make up a good story will have claims.

just saying..

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
24. They have to know who it is first
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:10 PM
Feb 2014

Which is why their representative is careful to keep their identity hidden from public.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
43. Haul that big, you can't.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:00 PM
Feb 2014

Otherwise, you find it very hard to liquidate them.

ANYONE willing to buy those coins anywhere near their value is going to ask serious questions.

safeinOhio

(32,674 posts)
51. Lots of ways
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:30 PM
Feb 2014

For high end you can take them to a good auction house. For high end coins you'd be looking at 10 to 15% and they do not reveal consigners. Major coin shows, over a period of times, have major buyers that pay cash. You can hire an "honest" attorney to act as your agent. As long as you report profit to the IRS, you should be just fine.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
54. Treasury Dept. keeps a close eye on those.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:37 PM
Feb 2014

Assuming the photo of US Mint coins is real, and not stock photo work.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
87. I'm 100% sure the official story on how these coins were "found" is bullshit
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:43 PM
Feb 2014

So they have the freedom to blab all they want

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
26. Thats IT!!!
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:13 PM
Feb 2014

Gotta Go.
I have a dog that need walkin!
...and there are rumors that the Conquistadors passed through this area!

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
32. ok, I have a geek confession
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:34 PM
Feb 2014

When I was a kid, I often thought that if I had Superman's x-ray vision, this is exactly what I would have used it for.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
144. Unless you have a slacker dog, like my two.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:01 PM
Mar 2014

They like to run around and bark, but not to dig up gold. Maybe you can find a dog like that but I've never been able to.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
38. ...and they told someone about it because???
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:45 PM
Feb 2014

I would've just started selling them off or converting them to savings and not blabbed to everyone, leaving themselves open to possibly losing the coins.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
101. There's a reason they are probably better off reporting the whole thing
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 05:11 AM
Feb 2014

From the sound of it, there are coins in there with a lot of high collector value. $27,000 face value is about 1350 pieces of $20 gold coins, so about $2 million at today's price for average coins. However, if there is collector value of $10 million in there, even if they pay full boat 40% in taxes, that will still leave them with $6 million, or at worst $5 million after paying off the experts to max out the deal for them. Going legit will be a far better deal for them than selling them off for cash without knowing what they are doing.

 

penndragon69

(788 posts)
42. Be very careful....
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:55 PM
Feb 2014

They could have just unearthed one of the coin stashes buried by the K.G.C.
that they were stashing during the civil war in order to rebuild the confederacy.

Some say that the KGC is alive and well and will do anything to get their gold back.

Be warned !

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
46. Am I wrong,
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:06 PM
Feb 2014

or would they only have to pay income tqxes on the gold when it is sold? I would think these gold coins would be a safer investment than many stocks. The value of the gold can rise and fall, but I would think the value of the coins would only go up.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
69. If so, it would only be because the
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:32 PM
Feb 2014

coins are legal tender, but then they woild only have to pay taxes on the face value of $27,000. Taxes on gains in stocks only need be paid upon tbe sale of the stock. Of course, I'm not a tqx attorney and I'm damn well not going to ask Michele Bachmann.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
99. Probably not
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 04:55 AM
Feb 2014

The latest dated gold coin in this stash was 1894, and the order to recall circulating gold coins in the US came in 1933. As we minted tens of millions of gold coins in the 1920s, there would have been plenty of coins in there dated after 1894 in any stash buried in the 1930s, and they would have not been sealed in cans dating from the 19th century.

Response to DFW (Reply #99)

llmart

(15,536 posts)
48. I take my dog for a walk twice every day......
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:19 PM
Feb 2014

and all she's ever dug up is a dead mole. But then again I don't live in So. Cal.

 

GRACIEBIRD

(94 posts)
49. awesome story!!!! Those old gold coins are valuable!!
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:20 PM
Feb 2014

Or at least that's what I learned on Pawn Stars lol.

onethatcares

(16,167 posts)
61. wow, every treasure hunters dream
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:09 PM
Feb 2014

I would certainly like that to happen to myself, or you, or my grandson.

That is so cool. Just the history of it.

If any of you collect silver dollars, halfs, quarters or dimes, you know the nice sound
they make when you're playing poker and stacking them.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
67. Great story, talk about a gold rush...don't forget to give the dog something special.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:24 PM
Feb 2014

If he did not need to be walked often, they may never have found it.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
68. California Lost Treasures
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:30 PM
Feb 2014


In 1895, two outlaws stole $50,000 in gold coins from a Wells Fargo shipment in a Union Pacific RR train robbery and buried the cache in the area of a hobo jungle just outside Washington. A hobo named John Harmons witnessed the burial, dug it up and took $5,000 from the sacks, reburying the rest a short distance away. Harmons went on a long drinking spree and when he returned for more money, he was unable to relocate the burial site and the $45,000 was never recovered.

In 1894, a worker at the San Francisco mint made off with 290 pounds of gold and buried it near Shelter Cover. He was captured and sent to prison for his crime, but refused to reveal the exact location of the loot. It was never found.

$50,000 was stolen in a robbery of a Southern Pacific Overland Express robbery in 1894 out of Sacramento. One half of this hoard was buried near Sheep Camp, a hobo jungle that was close to the city at the time of the robbery. It was yet to be recovered.

There are stories that say an Indian buried a sack of gold coins in the vicinity of Goat Rock which has never been recovered.

http://www.losttreasureusa.com/StateTreasures/StateTreasuresCALIFORNIA.htm

DFW

(54,369 posts)
102. Interesting that the latest dated coin in this hoard was dated 1894
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 05:16 AM
Feb 2014

Maybe this was part of one of the groups you just mentioned. Of course, there's no way to tell any more.

Considering the range of dates in this hoard, it is probably not a robbery from the San Francisco Mint, but it might have been part of the Southern Pacific Overland Express robbery. No way to tell now, of course.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
71. One of the few thread titles on DU that I actually looked forward to clicking
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:34 PM
Feb 2014

These days that is getting to be an endangered species....

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
76. There have been a number of smaller scale versions of this in the Gold Country.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:50 PM
Feb 2014

A lot of the 49ers didn't trust banks (no FDIC in those days), and since most miners lived in crappy little tent-houses, only an idiot left their gold sitting out where anyone could find it. Most would dig a hole somewhere under their tent-cabin and just bury it.

Then, like now, people died unexpectedly. A sudden disease, a shooting in a saloon, a mine collapse, a heart attack...people died without digging their hoards back up. After a few decades the tent cabins wore away to a few rotten boards, and more than a century later there's nothing left at all. Nothing except the gold buried under the ground.

From time to time someone will turn up a stash of old coins or a small jar of gold from these sites. The scale of this particular discovery is mindboggling and is probably the biggest in history, but it's not the first of the type, and probably won't be the last (just a few years ago a landowner was leveling a bit of land near Columbia in the Gold Country and turned up some rusty cans of gold dust that ended up being worth about a hundred grand).

DFW

(54,369 posts)
95. There are probably more stashes like this all over the world
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 03:45 AM
Feb 2014

In the Middle East, they find groups of ancient gold coins all the time. I know guys from the government of Romania that are chasing down a hoard of several thousand ancient Greek gold coins they are sure were found on their territory about 15 years ago. The trouble is that these coins are identical to ones that have been in collections for centuries, and there is no way to tell one from another, since they were all found, at one time or another, near the same place, and will have the same trace elements on them.

Ships, too, are still being found. The USS Central America, which went down off South Carolina in 1857, had many tens of thousands of $20 gold pieces, and only a fraction (maybe 7000 or so) have yet been brought up since it was located in 1989. The ship brought the month's production from the San Francisco mint to New York, and San Francisco minted nearly a million $20 gold pieces in 1857. There were ingots of private companies of the old west on there, too, and some of them have been brought up, and have sold for hundreds of thousands each, in some cases.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
94. All my dog found was a dead bunny
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 03:41 AM
Feb 2014

And a bag of Burger King trash some asshole threw out of their car in the parking lot when there was a trashcan not 10 yards away.

belcffub

(595 posts)
105. about the only thing my dog finds on our walks
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:40 AM
Feb 2014

if every tree, bush or spot of grass that has ever been peed on by another dog... he is really a huge disappointment... never found a treasure...

DFW

(54,369 posts)
135. LOL I'm sure there is plenty of that
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 06:50 PM
Feb 2014

Besides, the guys in Dallas auction off ten million dollar coin collections all the time these days. It's not even a huge hurdle these days. They just auctioned off ONE COIN for $4.5 million in January.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
136. Well, I hope they get as much for the coins they're selling as they can.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:48 PM
Feb 2014

And that they have fun at the auction. Just stay away from people that look like James Mason, Martin Landau, Eva Marie Saint, and Cary Grant

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
137. *drool*
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:50 PM
Feb 2014

I love coins. I wouldn't care if it was only $20 worth of coins, I have always wanted to find some coins buried somewhere.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
141. 25 years ago I found a 1939 World's Fair Medallion buried in our garden
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 11:25 PM
Feb 2014

It was quite a thrill, I admit, but it probably doesn't measure up to their little discovery!

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