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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:55 PM Mar 2014

Most Russians believe the Crimea is theirs – Putin has acted on his belief

Can something be evident and incredible at the same time? Certainly, if you are in denial. Until Russian troops landed in the Crimea many Russians were in denial about Vladimir Putin. They believed he was all bark and no bite.

Not that Putin had kept his intentions secret. He has always denied the idea that the Soviet Union was a colonising power; furthermore, he called the breakup of the USSR "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of our time".

He has annexed chunks of Georgia, most recently by means of a military invasion in 2008. But there are two differences between now and the war in Georgia. Technically, it was not Putin but Dmitry Medvedev who was nominally president when Russia invaded Georgia. More importantly, Russian liberals were not rooting for their fellows in Georgia during that war; indeed, they were scarcely aware of the political struggles within the country.

Ukraine is different: for three months, Russians had been watching the stand-off, and the oppositionally minded were strongly identifying with the anti-Yanukovych forces in Kiev.

<snip>

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/01/russia-invasion-ukraine-crimea?google_editors_picks=true

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Most Russians believe the Crimea is theirs – Putin has acted on his belief (Original Post) cali Mar 2014 OP
Most Ukranians in the Crimea feel the same it seems. pinto Mar 2014 #1
that's just the title of the story. why not read the story and comment on that? cali Mar 2014 #2
Seems a reasonable article. Igel Mar 2014 #3
I think the Crimea is part of Russia, too. reformist2 Mar 2014 #4
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
2. that's just the title of the story. why not read the story and comment on that?
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:04 PM
Mar 2014

I didn't think it was a good title, but I found the article informative and well written.

I actually think what an article says is more important than the title.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
3. Seems a reasonable article.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:13 PM
Mar 2014

But it feels fuzzy. Like it starts clearly and then goes all out of focus.

It shifts between liberals and intelligentsia and "most Russians" without actually stating what she entails: That those who were liberals in '68 could side with liberals in rejecting an oppressive state, albeit with only a very few having enough conviction to act on it. Now, however, even the liberals are either cowed or co-opted by visions of territorial "birthrights" a thousand miles from where they live.

She overlooks that one involved Czechs against Czechs while this involves Russians against outsiders. It's not them against them. It's them against us. There's no parallel with the Prague Spring. None. Just an aspiration that liberals don't like Putin and for some reason do sort of like Putin in this. She needs a good justification, and finds merely "a" justification.


She also plays this funny game with Georgia. Georgia was a big deal. Liberals weren't involved, but Internet forums were all riled up during the Georgian conflict. It took a special kind of reporter to show unflattering photos from the conflict.

The most unflattering photos I saw were on pro-Russian sites. "Look at all this destruction and death! Woo-hoo! Go Russia!" These weren't liberals. They were a majority. Soldiers uploading the photos--it never occurred to you that they didn't have permission or even orders to do so--were proud of the incursion and with one voice echoed the party line. "We good, they evil, death to the evil ones." But while this is certainly relevant today, for Gessen it's all about Putin versus Medvedev and how Putin was perceived.

But it's precisely the same attitude.

And that's where the fuzziness comes in. She wants quite dissimilar things to be parallel, and for the current differences to be meaningful and in need of explanation. She wants rather similar things to be dissimilar, and finds the similarities indicative of change.

Still, it's reasonable. At least it brings up points that most don't.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
4. I think the Crimea is part of Russia, too.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:18 PM
Mar 2014

And no, I'm not ethnically Russian. I just am calling it as I see it.
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