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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGirl, 16, accused of statutory rape of boy, 14
y Marcus K. Garner
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A 16-year-old Rockdale County middle school student was charged with statutory rape for having sex with a 14-year-old boy, according to police reports.
According to the incident report obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution from the Rockdale County Sheriff Office, Memorial Middle School officials saw video footage of the teens enter the boys bathroom together on Feb. 25, and emerge 10 minutes later.
When school officials questioned the teens, both admitted to having consensual sex on the bathroom floor, authorities said.
The 16-year-old girl acknowledged that she was the aggressor, asking the boy to get on the floor with her after they started kissing, according to the incident report.
more
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/rockdale-girl-16-accused-of-statutory-rape-of-boy-/nd4sL/
hlthe2b
(102,105 posts)in the case of both parties maintaining it was consensual.
I think this is in opposition to the intent of the law.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)People get all in a huff when a 19-year-old has voluntary sex with a 17-year-old, but it would seem that most of these same people have no problem with a judge blaming a woman for her own rape.....or a gay man for being molested, etc. There are a lot of sick and hypocritical people amongst traditional conservatives in particular.....just sad.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)help for both of them....I suspect some kind of abuse in the home...
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)And why do you think there's abuse at home ? Just curious....
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Kids need the help of the caring adults, be they parents or teachers or others who are there for them.
Kids who have really healthy sexuality education all throughout their formative years usually don't do this kind of thing...and if kids can't get it from their parents, where do they turn?
Warpy
(111,121 posts)if contraception of some sort wasn't used.
To me all this shows is that teenagers are unbelievably horny. Sex education needs to be geared toward giving them the information they need to get through it with their health and lives intact.
Statutory rape laws were to protect teenagers from adult men and women, where there is an unacceptable power imbalance.
Bottom line: teenagers are going to fuck. We need to show them how to do it without AIDS and being stuck with babies at too young an age.
And some of the most promiscuous kids in my high school had church officials of various types as parents. Don't try to tell me those were uncaring homes. They weren't. It was just the wrong type of care.
"To me all this shows is that teenagers are unbelievably horny. Sex education needs to be geared toward giving them the information they need to get through it with their health and lives intact."
Exactly. My point entirely. BUT, truly "caring" homes would have considered the whole personhood of their children, and that includes their sexuality education.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)They are more caring for their insane ideology. Their only "care" for their children is one of repressing their
developing into healthy individuals. OH, they may call it "caring" but it is truly harmful to those kids.
Warpy
(111,121 posts)Funny how correcting our oppression manages to persecute a certain type of Christian.
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Kids have sex! They need counseling!
This is the kind of stuff that makes my head spin. A normal thing for decades and all of a sudden it's a problem. I mean, I grew up in the 80's and there were plenty of kids in my grades having sex, albeit not AT school outside of some first and second base kind of stuff for the most part, as they kept the big stuff off of school grounds...
Suspecting abuse because of it? I just can't wrap my head around that.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)I think 14 is a bit too young to enter into a sexual relationship. At 16, the girl is also underage and would benefit by having a caring adult talk with her.
Sex on the floor on a school bathroom? Really?
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Was it her? Was it an administrator or teacher putting that term in her mouth? Or an investigating police officer?
And who says there was no caring talk from an adult? I've had those talks with my daughters but I've also told them that if they make a decision to have sex, that I will respect if it's what they want and have thought about it. 14 may seem young to an adult, but it's basically a junior and a freshman in most cases. And with the way so many grades intermingle in classes and extracurricular these days, there's not the age gap that might have been defined years ago. Hell, when I was sixteen there was a sister of a friend that I totally fell for and wanted to get involved with that was two years younger than me. But it would be statutory rape now and people would be saying I needed counseling because I had consensual sex with my girlfriend?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Something isn't right at that young woman's home if sex on the bathroom floor is an option. It also means that she probably started having sex earlier than 16, which means ... as you said ... trouble in the home.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)and the being 14 boy hadn't obtained the age of consent.
When my son was 15, he had a friend. Katy was her name and she was 17. Katy was not abused. I would have to say that Katy was neglected and was looking for love in all the wrong places.
One afternoon, Katy came by after school. I wasn't feeling well and probably shouldn't have let him have friends over that day because I went and laid down. When I got up Katy and my son were upstairs and I called them down- they didn't come down those stairs fast enough for my comfort, so I went up and what do I see when I enter my son's room? My son, sitting on the side of the bed in his underpants, hiding his face and Katy covering herself giggling (probably from embarrassment). I decided it was time for Katy to leave and decided to drive her home. All during the ride, I lectured them both on the responsibilities that being sexually active brings with it. I got plenty of giggles, eyerolls and "oh moms". I didn't over react, I didn't scream and yell and I thought I let them both with the understand that sex was something they weren't ready for and it wasn't to happen again.
What I didn't know was that Katy had an "official boyfriend" and when he found out that she had had sex with my son (who was a virgin til then), she told the bf that my son had raped her. Katy's boyfriend went to the principals office (the principal happens to be friends with Katy's father). I then got a call from the principal saying my son was accused of raping Katy and that my son was going to be charged. At that point, I was very angry with the principal and I said to him. "I understand that Katy is 17. My son is 15, Yes, let's have us a conversation about who was raped." And at that point, the principal suddenly had to end the conversation. But there was never any rape, it was totally consensual.
When the detective came to my home, he said to me, "Mrs B. We know that kids do this sort of thing all the time, if you tell me that it has been resolved, then I'm outta here. All I said to him at that point was "it has been resolved."
That was the end of the entire situation.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Our kids need help from parents and others who must act in loco parentis. All kids screw up in some way. It is the way of growing up.
As parents, we want to save out kids from unintended pregnancy and STDs. Who wouldn't want that for our kids. But so many parents, for many reasons, can't bring themselves to talk about sex to their kids.
It's crazy! You wouldn't allow your kids to drive without drivers ed classes, would you? Can't you do at least as much for something so important as your child's sexual health?
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)... or otherwise took the lead.
How physically aggressive she was in the asking/leading is not addressed.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Planned Parenthood and I know well what sex educators from THEM have to say about teen sex. And it is not with condiemnation.
Since the law got into this (which it NEVER should have) then we have to go to the sex education/counseling route. What is wrong with that, given the circumstances?
This "concern" is misplaced. My problems with this story is the law and how it is handled.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Kids that young having sex means something else is going on at home.
former9thward
(31,925 posts)No it means they are having sex. Nothing more.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that young having sex on the bathroom floor does indeed mean there is little guidance at home. Do you think a 14 year old carries around condoms? I guess teen pregnancy or STD's are perfectly acceptable to you.
former9thward
(31,925 posts)Acknowledging teens have sex now means that I think "teen pregnancy or STD's are perfectly acceptable." In my high school condoms were available to all so yeah a 14 can get a condom with not much difficulty. Is bathroom sex ideal? No, but most teens don't have their own places so they make do. I had sex as a teen and absolutely nothing was wrong at home. And that was the case with all my friends.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I guess different experiences make us see things through different eyes. I didn't think it was a strawman at all, given my experiences.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)And condoms are readily available.
As the parent of a 26 yr old and a 17 yr old who have attended 3 different high schools between them (17 year old is graduating in June), from my extensive involvement in their schools I've observed their high school experience mirrors mine....
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)They are not criminals...unless the behavior continues after they are made aware just how inappropriate it is. A little sex education would help.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)CTyankee
(63,883 posts)rough times in their sexual development. Nobody said it was easy. We all have our roadblocks and our difficult relationships. It is life. But caring people in our lives help us every step of the way, giving counsel and understanding. It doesn't mean condescension or condemnation. It means help and communication.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Don't make me literally LOL at work!
snooper2
(30,151 posts)not the bathroom floor LOL...
GROSS!
Of course, I do remember that one time late night in the dirty laundromat
Lex
(34,108 posts)Hmmmm. Counseling about birth control maybe.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)caring adults in their lives.
I don't consider having sex on the floor in a school bathroom to be a sign of sexual health. Really, I don't.
Lex
(34,108 posts)and not in places they would prefer. And I think everyone would agree with you that kids need guidance from
caring adults in their lives about sex. Not criminal prosecution though.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)CTyankee
(63,883 posts)saying, I can tell you I got it from my co-worker at Planned Parenthood who was a sex educator and regularly talked with parent groups about "How to talk to your kids about sex."
Do you think Planned Parenthood is some kind of chastity enforcing organization?
If you do, think again.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Two teens have sex and they need counseling?
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Won't someone think of the children?
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)CTyankee
(63,883 posts)You have a very crabbed view of what is meant by "counseling."
It would be preferable if the parents of these kids had given their kids the some kind of sexuality education
materials, wouldn't it? It should NEVER gone beyond the family situation, which is where it should be handled. But obviously, it wasn't.
We do a lousy job of sexuality education in this country. There is a better way.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)One goes to marriage counseling because it's falling apart.
One goes to alcohol counseling because they are an alcoholic.
One goes to drug and addiction counseling because they are addicted.
If one just seeks counseling, it's usually for mental issues.
If you are required to go to counseling for work, it's for personal work behavior issues.
If you are required to seek counseling prior to an abortion, thanks the fascist christian right who seeks to frustrate you.
etc.
Teens have sex and I'm not going to deny that. I believe they should get all the education needed and access to birth control. But pretending that teens won't have sex just keeps the maternity wards in brisk business.
When I read your original post, I took it as being a little prudish. Perhaps the point didn't come off as you intended.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)CT! If I were prudish, I was in the wrong organization!
Look, kids need education, right? In terms of sexuality, parents are the best equipped to do the education. If they don't, sometimes the kids turn to Planned Parenthood and get information and services they need to help them be healthy, happy sexual human beings. That is what I signed on for when I worked for them as a major gifts office.
A LOT of young women go to PP for help and information that they never got as kids. It is sad. It would be a lot better if the parents had helped them understand what a mine field adolescence is. But they don't have it. So call it education or call it counseling the need some kind of help to navigate. I see NOTHING wrong with that...
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)We appear to be in violent agreement.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I guess I'm not understanding how you can make the leap to:
1. These kids need counseling (as though they never got that).
2. They need birth control information (how do you know they weren't using birth control?)
3. There must be trouble at home because they had sex in the bathroom (say what? you don't know any horny teens who will seek out just about anywhere to have sex? Furthermore, how many movie scenes are there with bathroom sex scenes? (kids model adult behavior from the media) Even further, haven't YOU ever had sex in the bathroom?)
You keep saying you've worked at PP so you have to know teens have sex even with all the best information and from the best families.
You seem to be jumping to condemn this pretty fast.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)I am advocating for healthy sexuality education for kids. I don't see what is wrong with that?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)because... they had sex in the bathroom?
I guess you don't seem very clear to me on why you keep bringing those things up in relation to these two teens unless you have inside information that they come from abusive homes and never had sex ed and didn't use birth control?
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)I think it would be great if they had birth control and sex ed. I never said I didn't. I hope that is the case.
But choosing sex on the floor of a school bathroom isn't my idea of a really great sexual encounter for young kids first sexual encounter...sheesh....
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I guess I'm confused how you know all this about them?
I'm not trying to beat it to death. You keep asserting things about these kids and I'm curious if you know something other than what's in the news story? How do you know it wasn't as "sweet" as Mineral Man's experience as a 13 yr old boy?
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)generally they have sex because they're horny.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)information about sex from early life on into their teens about human sexuality. Not giving your child that crucial information raises suspicion in my mind and I do wonder about it...of course, it could be just puritanism but I wonder about abuse...that is all...
sibelian
(7,804 posts)And wouldn't it be nice if we could read what we're all posting without assuming the worst possible interpretation of it... I had a bit of a reaction to "health" and "counselling" myself, until you had explained your understanding of the terms more clearly.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)parents entitled "How to Talk to you Kids about Sex." At first it surprised me, too, because she talked about parents putting the discussion in terms of the parents values. I was taken aback. We don't often hear about "values" on OUR side, only on the RWingers. Her point was that we progressives most certainly DO have values. So I thought about that and how we have let the other side have "values" while we hem and haw. Healthy messages about sexuality are not shaming and prudish. They give kids a context of their lives and what they want out of their lives. We do them no favors by not giving them life affirming messages about sex.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)(With apologies to Spielberg for the paraphrase....)
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)I said kids need caring adults in their young lives (not just their teens years, ALL through their young lives) to have health sexuality education. It starts young, when you as a parent answers questions the kid raises about their sex organs and why boy and girls have different ones, and it gets more complicated as they get older. It is a continuing ED program, so to speak. They learn, hopefully, that sexuality is something they continually learn about and it has its wonders as well as its problems. IOW, there is joy and there is emotional pain. And it is up to parents to help kids navigate this in kids young lives.
You have reduced this to some movie line which is to reduce to humanity of the situation in all peoples' lives. And for that I am sorry for you.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)diabeticman
(3,121 posts)it happens but this is just stupid. This is two teenagers who screw up now we are probably going to feed one of them for the for-profit juvenile prison system.
cali
(114,904 posts)CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Kids needs guidance about sex and it should be from the parents. They are the best educators of their children. But if they won't and the law enforcement agency gets involved, what do you do?
aikoaiko
(34,161 posts)Does anyone remember the mid-1990s Frontline special on their syphilis outbreak?
These could be the kids of those kids (now adults).
alp227
(32,003 posts)aikoaiko
(34,161 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)especially this paragraph:
According to Georgia state statute, a person commits statutory rape if the victim is at least 14 years old but less than 16 and the suspect is 18 years of age or younger and is no more than four years older than the victim.
OK, so the victim has to be between the ages of 14 to 16, but the suspect has to be 18 years of age or younger? Does this seem messed up to anyone else? Shouldn't it say 18 years of age or older? Not to mention there is supposed to be a 4 year difference in age, when, in this case, it is 2. Most likely the case will be thrown out of court if the AJC article is accurate, because she didn't break any laws.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)shifts it to rape (without the statutory bit) or child abuse or something much more serious.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)one or two teenagers having sex while at least one is under the age of majority. In many states, they have provisions where, if the age gap is within a certain threshold, then certain people are exempt from prosecution. For example, a High School Senior dating a Freshman, etc.
This would put Georgia's statute as one of the strictest I'm aware of.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Not surprising for Georgia, though.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)That remove any criminal component for underage sex as long as it is consensual and the parties involved are within a certain age range of one another; in my state, it is within 3 years -- so a 14 can consent to sex with a 17. 16 is the legal age of consent here for sex with anyone at any age (older).
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Which seems unrealistic even by the standards of 20 years ago (my first girlfriend was 17 and I was 15, eg).
Jesus H. Christ... high school was 20 years ago? That can't be right... grumble...
Xithras
(16,191 posts)There are only a handful of states where Romeo and Juliet laws permit sex with people under 15. A quick Google shows that only 9 states have laws that extend Romeo and Juliet laws to 14 year olds. The vast majority only cover teens over 15. A surprising number of states still don't have them at all, or simply reduce the charges (California, for instance, merely reduces the charge from a felony to a misdemeanor and exempts it from sex offender registration).
madokie
(51,076 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Statutory Rape Law law should prohibit three categories;
1. Anyone 21 and over having sex with anyone under 18 - Felony
2. Anyone 19-20 having sex with someone younger than 16 - Serious Misdemeanor for ages 13-15, felony younger than that
3. Anyone 18 and younger having sex with someone more than three years younger than them. Misdemeanor for 4-5 years, felony more than that.
cali
(114,904 posts)Secondly, please don't ever move to Vermont. You wouldn't like it here. It's way, way too liberal for conservative dems like you.
Oh, and you should read Judith Levine's book.
Here's a snippet of a piece about the book, "Harmful to Minors""
<snip>
Why does the proposition that youth deserves sexual autonomy, pleasure, and privacy seem so radical? In the 1970s, the sexual revolution was in full swing and the idea that children and teens were sexual beings was accepted, at least among progressives. Books such as Heidi Handman and Peter Brennan's "Sex Handbook: Information and Help for Minors" and Sol Gordon's "You!" showed respect for young people and their ability to make their own sexual decisions.
<snip>
http://www.alternet.org/story/12960/what_judith_levine_is_really_saying
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)girl availed herself of it?
Also, if you think that sex education by caring adults is not that important, do you also agree kids should not have drivers ed? We should at least equip our kids with the same amount of sex education as we do drivers ed, right?
You have mentioned two handbooks for kids about sex. Good! I am all for them! As a former Planned Parenthood staffer, I loved the educational material they had for teens and the parents of teens. What in the hell is wrong with scientifically accurate material about sexuality?
I am at a loss for words at the reaction to my post. This is absurd...
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Depending where you live and the type of crime, there are first degree, second degree, class A, etc.
In terms of the other stuff. Do you agree that there should be an age of consent? Or do you think a 12 year old girl can legally consent to anyone? I think there should be an age of consent, and if you agree, and I am guessing you do, it becomes complicated when both individuals are at or below that age. I think three years or so in general is a fair way of dealing with that complication.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Hopefully when we finally reform the victimless drug laws and marriage bans, this will be next on the agenda. Locking up teenagers for having sex with other teenagers is ridiculous. Especially when the age of consent is 16 in most states.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)statutory rape laws shouldn't exist for that age range. So 18 to 16, or 16 to 14, doesn't have enough of an age difference IMO to create the kind of power imbalance that is assumed in a statutory rape situation.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)When children are hungry, seniors are cold and parents have no jobs
Deep13
(39,154 posts)So we have two competing values here: equality before the law and social reality. Equality before the law I guess says is that the girl is old enough to know what she was doing while the boy was note. Given their close ages, GA law makes this a misdemeanor. In Ohio, something like this is "unlawful sexual conduct with a minor," also a misdemeanor. So, it is a legal violation and the sexes of the victim and offender are irrelevant.
The social reality is that the boy will be high-fiving his friends all month.
JVS
(61,935 posts)He's not old enough to make an informed decision about an action that could have long term consequences for his life.
Peregrine
(992 posts)Or is sex in school ok now?
Lex
(34,108 posts)not being suspended from school.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)She had been 15 for one month. We lived two doors away from each other and had been close friends since kindergarten. One summer day, we were hanging out together at her house. We started talking about sex. It seemed like a good idea to see how that worked. So that's what we did.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Kids are always interested in sex, once they are aware of it. It is always in their consciousness somewhere. I love how natural it all was for you and her...it warms my heart!
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)Knew what caused pregnancies, so we took care that wouldn't happen. We never did it again. It was an experiment. We remained friends, and I saw her at our 50th reunion. We had a good laugh about it. At the time, we decided it was messy and a bit icky. We were nerd kids, sort of. The memory is nice though.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)it is a rite of passage and it seems like you were two people who were respectful of each other. Nice...
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)But the kids in the OP are in need of counseling and "probably" come from troubled homes because they're too young?
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)I don't know the full story of the OP posting. I hope it was a caring and nice. But I can't see it that way because of the circumstances. Perhaps the story was distorted and it was better than it sounded. I truly hope so...I can't think of a worst place for sexual initiation than a school bathroom floor, myself. YMMV.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)It's a treasured memory. A funny one, too, if you think about it.
CTyankee
(63,883 posts)So young and so very vulnerable and tender. It is the stuff of so much literature and art, isn't it?
Trillo
(9,154 posts)A good percentage of them are gonna have sex anyway, just put them in maximum security for their terrible teens. Problem solved.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Cmon, 2 years apart? Really?
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)eom
gerogie2
(450 posts)Oh the horror of those memories! NOT!
alp227
(32,003 posts)i think 99% of the posts here would be unsympathetic to the boy.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I think the boy would be labelled a predator.
gerogie2
(450 posts)Having teenagers so close in age engaging in sex should not be a crime.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Was it written assuming an older male only?
alp227
(32,003 posts)madville
(7,403 posts)Administrators pretty much operate on zero tolerance policies in public schools these days, anything remotely criminal under the law automatically gets reported to the police, no exceptions.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)year
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)CTyankee
(63,883 posts)Something told me this story wasn't quite "right." I've had two teenage daughters and now have 3 teenage granddaughters. Experience as a mom counts, IMO. As you well know yourself, Sea!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)like she was either left back, or she was born after the cut off in a year.
Update: Rockdale County Schools have middle school as 6-8th grade. So she was a 16 year old 8th grader.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)starting. 16 freshman if held back. she would have two years held back to be in 8th grade.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Texas schools jack me up-
like every 2 years a different school, WTF?
(Makes house hunting a pain in the ass)
I just had Grade School, then High School- course I grew up in the boonies
deathrind
(1,786 posts)...decided this issue.