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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 09:39 AM Mar 2014

“There will be another attack”: Rand Paul ally takes heat over Snowden at CPAC

"All the NSA has to do is watch all the calls made from CPAC, and the IRS would have their audit schedules"

JOSH EIDELSON


An ex-governor and an attorney behind Rand Paul’s NSA lawsuit clashed passionately and sometimes personally on a CPAC main stage panel devoted to privacy and national security.

“Edward Snowden is a traitor and a coward” who chose to “flee … in order to make common cause with a Stalinist thug,” and “substantially weakened this country against the direct enemies of this country,” charged former congressman and Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore.

“In a democracy, the people have the right to know what their government is doing, because we get to decide what their policy is going to be,” countered Reagan administration attorney Bruce Fein, who helped draft Paul’s lawsuit. Fein argued that Snowden’s “courage” had put U.S. senators – who have greater constitutional protections to disclose information – to shame. He accused Gilmore of ignoring “the more rampant lawlessness” of the U.S. government.

Both Gilmore and Fein drew cheers from the ballroom’s crowd, though Fein’s stance appeared to have more supporters. Asked by moderator John Solomon of the Washington Times whether they believed the programs revealed by Edward Snowden were making them safer, only about a dozen raised their hands – prompting Solomon to ask Fein whether he needed Dick Cheney to come back and set the crowd straight. Gilmore’s claim that “I understand better than anybody what the Fourth Amendment really means” drew a loud, “You lie!” from at least one attendee.

Gilmore repeatedly referenced his experience serving as Virginia’s governor during the 9/11 attacks, and warned the crowd, “I have to tell you that there will be another attack on the United States. There simply will be.”

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/07/%E2%80%9Cthere_will_be_another_attack%E2%80%9D_rand_paul_ally_takes_heat_over_snowden_at_cpac/
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“There will be another attack”: Rand Paul ally takes heat over Snowden at CPAC (Original Post) DonViejo Mar 2014 OP
This sentence ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #1
Yep, they would both be cheered here too. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #2
Libertarians have been very, very busy ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #3
If things don't change, they likely will. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #4
change like ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #5
I didn't say it's a good idea. That counts for little in these things. bemildred Mar 2014 #6
Why are you so certain that Libertarians Aerows Mar 2014 #7
Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #8
So you *DO* Aerows Mar 2014 #9
Where do y get that from? ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #12
I don't find it coincidental that once a Black President controlled national security, the GOP msanthrope Mar 2014 #11
This: OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #10
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
1. This sentence ...
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 10:01 AM
Mar 2014
Both Gilmore and Fein drew cheers from the ballroom’s crowd, though Fein’s stance appeared to have more supporters.


Is a testament to the libertarian/conservative divide within the gop on a traditionally republican article of faith ... national security. Prior to the "paul revolution" in 2008, there wouldn't have even been this discussion. But libertarians have worked hard to gain a seat at the gop table.

And since 2010, they have been pushing for a seat at the Democratic table, as well ... and I suspect there will be similar results.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
3. Libertarians have been very, very busy ...
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 10:29 AM
Mar 2014

burrowing into both parties.

They have effective changed the framing from Democrat versus Republican to liberal/progressive versus conservative. (Review this site and watch the timing of the shift in self-identified political descriptors ... look a at the shift in stated deal-breaking political priorities.)

I suspect, by 2020, they will have siphoned off enough followers to mount a legitimate 3rd political party.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
5. change like ...
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:01 PM
Mar 2014

Democrats, liberals and progressives not getting sucked in?

I can honestly understand frustrations causing us to seek; but the libertarian fantasy is not the place to go.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. I didn't say it's a good idea. That counts for little in these things.
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:03 PM
Mar 2014

I said I think it will happen if we don't get our domestic house in order, and soon.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
7. Why are you so certain that Libertarians
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:06 PM
Mar 2014

will make liberals, Democrats and progressives less so? Isn't it just as likely that Democrats, liberals and progressives could temper some of the non-reality based ideas that Libertarians have? I'm not by any means leaping to become a Libertarian because they have a lot of really dumb ideas. I'm just wondering how everyone is convinced that liberals and progressives would swallow the "let everybody starve" and "we don't need to pay for a fire department" lines.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
8. Because ...
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:16 PM
Mar 2014

Rarely do joiners change the larger group, but over time. It's taken the libertarians 10+ years to gain sway in the gop which they have more in common with.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
9. So you *DO*
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:35 PM
Mar 2014

think liberals, progressives and Democrats will get on board with "let everybody starve", "we don't need to pay for roads and fire fighters" and "we don't need environmental or financial regulations"?

So noted. I don't believe that for a second.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
12. Where do y get that from? ...
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 03:10 PM
Mar 2014

I thought I said joiners have very little influence in the established groups agenda, initially.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
11. I don't find it coincidental that once a Black President controlled national security, the GOP
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:47 PM
Mar 2014

started a rethink on that issue.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
10. This:
Sat Mar 8, 2014, 02:44 PM
Mar 2014

"In a democracy, the people have the right to know what their government is doing, because we get to decide what their policy is going to be,” countered Reagan administration attorney Bruce Fein..."

is hilarious.

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