General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI keep hearing people talk about privilege. What is it?
Not familiar with the term other than "it would be my privilege to hold the door for you, ma'am".
Then again, I went to college for technical degree and didn't take many liberal arts classes.
Rex
(65,616 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)I think I get where people are coming from. Just a weird concept.
maced666
(771 posts)Like these 60 year old signs.
Got it.
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Jay Smooth also has some excellent youtube videos relating to privilege.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)In these systems, a positive outcome is not always guaranteed. What it does mean however is that, in a given situation, a favored group will be more likely to receive a positive, or more positive, outcome than a non-favored group.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)It's about you feeling appropriate guilt for things that people who looked like you did a long time before you were born, that you still theoretically benefit from.
Clear on that now?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)White, male, heterosexual, etc.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to go around the world killing perfectly innocent, men, women and children? THAT is what privilege means to many of our victims.
We are a fraction of the world's population but we claim superiority over cultures who are far more numerous, with histories that go back way further than ours. We are unapologetic about the slaughter and torture of 'lesser' people. Our Military Generals order the troops to treat our victims 'like dogs'.
I find it hard to worry too much about our internal squabbles when I see the photos of the bodies of the beautiful little 'brown' children we feel it necessary to kill 'for our very privileged' security.
But maybe it's just me, who can't overlook the crimes we have, as a nation, all of us, committed against ethnicities we apparently view as inferior to us.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)what is being done in their name to human beings who they appear to view as unworthy of the same sympathy as our superior citizens deserve.
Ever talk to a woman from the ME about the US? She will explain to you what privilege is.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but your strawman is duly noted...
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Acknowledging privilege is about recognizing that you automatically get a leg up on someone who otherwise is your equal simply by virtue of your race, gender, sexuality, income level, or religion, and subsequently erecting a filter in your brain when it comes to discussing communities that aren't your own.
Let's try a couple of examples:
You, a white man, (hypothetically) think "Why do black people hate the cops so much? They've never been anything but polite to me." You don't acknowledge that black communities are unfairly targeted by law enforcement simply because of their race. You being white statistically means you don't experience that. That's privilege.
You, a man, think "I think getting hit on is a compliment. Why do women have such an issue with it?" What you don't acknowledge is that women are harassed constantly, and are actually afraid of (or sometimes just irritated by) some people who make unsolicited passes at them. As a man, you statistically don't have to deal with that. That's privilege.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)When you haven't got any reasonable rebuttal here, you (not specifically you, but many here) trot out the "S" word.
I didn't enslave anybody, or beat anybody, or any of that, but I'm expected to feel guilt and consciousness because people who happened to resemble me did a long time ago, or may still be doing so. "Privilege" is just racism (group guilt) in reverse.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)What people are expecting is for you to understand that you automatically have a leg up compared to someone else who is otherwise your equal.
No ones saying it's your fault and that you're a bad person for being white, or straight, or male, or whatever.
That's a stupid argument used only by racists, homophobes, misogynists, and the 1% to make minorities seem like the bullies.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)For fucks sake.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I mean a fat person is fat, right. And a stupid person really IS stupid. So I guess it is NOT an insult for me to continually remind them of this FACT.
And it IS insulting to tell people they are privileged when they are well to the bottom of society. Although, the response may actually be laughter at the stupidity of the statement, rather than a feeling of insult.
But then too, the advice is NOT to feel guilty, instead it is to "shut the fuck up." and to go around learning, because, after all, by having white skin and a male gender, you must be the dumbest person in the room who needs to learn from everybody else, who can tell you how privileged you are, even though they know barely anything about your life.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)"Guilt is what you feel for what you've done, responsibility is what you take because of the kind of person that you are."
treestar
(82,383 posts)You don't have to deal with racial discrimination. That is a fact. That is all.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Well, not having to face challenges that others face simply by virtue of things beyond their control is privilege. Discrimination is a big part of it, but street harassment is part of it too.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)I have asked this question before and have only gotten argumentative responses.
I view it as a mistake to label people not being discriminated against as privileged. Privileged indicates, as the definition states, something unearned. We have not all received what we have earned. Those who haven't received what they earned because of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc. have, by the definition of discrimination, been discriminated against.
Discrimination can be, has been, battled. Privilege can't be had by all.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and exceptions do not negate the rule...
pipoman
(16,038 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)it was what the OP was asking about. I tried to meet him on his level.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I have chosen to do so.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)You can still make up definitions but it isn't ethical and you are wrong for doing so.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)But you already know that.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)In a different context than it was intended, or in a new context.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)A contextual shift is the result of a change in the perception of the population of language speakers, not in the use by an individual.
Now, a person can claim to reappropriate words. But that is a meaningless endeavor unless he or she can influence a larger body.
Moreover, the evolution of language is, like biological evolution, extremely incremental and slow.
In other words, using a word incorrectly is not tantamount to restructuring language.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)what has historically been called 'discrimination', by a large amount of people, could/may result in a recognized contextual change in the definition of the word "privilege".
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)What do you think?
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Sadly, you spoke your heart.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
something regarded as a rare opportunity and bringing particular pleasure.
"I have the privilege of awarding you this scholarship"
synonyms: honor, pleasure More
(in a parliamentary context) the right to say or write something without the risk of incurring punishment or legal action for defamation.
noun: absolute privilege; plural noun: absolute privileges
the right of a lawyer or official to refuse to divulge confidential information.
historical
a grant to an individual, corporation, or place of special rights or immunities, esp. in the form of a franchise or monopoly.
synonyms: immunity, exemption, dispensation More
verbformal
verb: privilege; 3rd person present: privileges; past tense: privileged; past participle: privileged; gerund or present participle: privileging
1.
grant a privilege or privileges to.
"English inheritance law privileged the eldest son"
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)"I have the privilege of awarding you this scholarship"
synonyms: honor, pleasure More
Why can't people make this simple?
Why didn't the OP just Google?
Holy shit!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He knew what that kind was....the highlighted is the big DU argument about it...
treestar
(82,383 posts)that might actually be a better word to use to describe the concept.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)amazing the ignorant shit about race one reads at DU.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I'm glad to hear you do feel appropriate guilt. Sort of takes the burden off of me.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and no I don't feel guilt. I do feel responsibility though, but not so much that it lets you off the hook
kwassa
(23,340 posts)there are several excellent explanations already on the the subject in this thread, which you apparently have ignored.
There were also massive threads on this subject in the past few weeks, which you completely missed or ignored.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I'm into the idea of each of us being responsible for what we have done or failed to do, not into the concept of accepting responsibility for what others have done in the name of my race, gender, or orientation.
However, I'm permanently done discussing this topic on this forum, and realized it was a mistake to have tried to engage in any sort of dialog on it. I leave the rest of you to either feel the burdens of privilege, or the necessity to remind other people of it's existence, I'm going back to complete silence on the topic, as it is clear that my views on it are absolutely unwelcome here.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)in just one more brief attempt to explain it to you ...
I agree with you that we are each responsible for what we have done or failed to do.
Privilege isn't about doing anything, now or in the past.
Privilege is a benefit that comes about through circumstances of birth. It is much like an inheritance. It only requires awareness, not guilt. Whites have privilege now, in this country, through the accident of being born white.
That is all. No guilt. Just awareness. If you would like more specifics on that benefit, let us know.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Regardless how much you try to explain, words have meaning. The idea being the concept of some "unearned privilege" is possessed by some people based on race, gender, etc. My post #47 clarifies my position.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)how the people who supposedly have this (or these) benefit(s) for some reason have to have it explained to them?
I mean, here's a white male who just got home from his job of digging ditches on a rainy day, and he goes to the internet to read about how privileged he is for being white and male.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)Less talking, more listening is crucial for any of us trying to get a better handle on our privilege.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that is the error in your thinking. Taking it personally.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Dude's a conservative. It's not interesting.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Kali
(54,990 posts)you can't be serious
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)They're non-productive, as they attempt to use guilt as a way to get people over to your side, and that only works with weak minds. However, I did see a relative newbie ask what I thought was a sincere question about something that is talked about here often, and I thought I'd give him a straight answer from someone who doesn't buy into collective guilt theories promulgated by those who don't view people as individuals who are responsible for their own behavior and actions, rather than what someone who resembled them did.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts).....especially not in a country whose history has involved plenty of divide-and-conquer games *within* the so-called "white" community.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)At least legal and social codification. If they do, and I suspect they do, then they cannot make the argument that it is all a simple matter of personal choice or personal racism or personal privilege. It is a matter of existing within a social, economic and legal system which has codified privilege.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)your profound ignorance on race in America and the dictionary definition of "privilege" maybe you should just excuse yourself
Ohio Joe
(21,656 posts)Juries don't hide it and Admins don't ban for it... It's simply now allowed.
Kali
(54,990 posts)or rather it might be a lack of self-awareness. If you can not see or comprehend that there is privilege by virtue of unearned traits held by various demographics and only see some imaginary demand that you feel GUILT as a probable beneficiary of various kinds of privilege, then I am not sure what else there is to say.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And yet you keep talking about guilt.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I refer you to Mr. Scorpio's post above for insight (and possibly, self reflection).
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is about social classes, and is not to be taken personally.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,781 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)Other than a couple of well thought out posts. Are you always this rude or just on Fridays?
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)but I could be wrong.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)playing.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)I too, have questions.
If a breastfeeding pit bull coats chicken with corn flakes at the olive garden, does that make an Asian woodcarver more or less a Nader voter?
Questions.
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Skittles
(152,964 posts)I wonder in what capacity he "functions"
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)You'll show him the true meaning of privilege, yes indeed?
Skittles
(152,964 posts)that indicates some kind of privilege right there - racism is racism is racism, right?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)You're really transparent.
Kali
(54,990 posts)learn anything?
functioning_cog
(294 posts)I had not been aware of DU etiquette for how often DU posters are to keep their own threads active.
Regarding this topic--I learned a lot. I knew I would.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)We had been free of this for several days.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)others deal with it every day.
Just say ... PRIVILEGE is the luxury of thinking because it's not talked about it is not something to have to deal with.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)pick your last 8 posts, what were you trying to accomplish?
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)who suffer "driving while black" or "shopping while black" or like Trayvon Martin, walking while black, may seem rather privileged to many of us here- especially when it appears that these important issues are **boring** to those who appear to be oblivious to the plight for equality of others. "Talking to death" these issues is not a frame I'm willing to accept (I can make a loaded frame too - what ~I guess the NRA prefers we shoot to death our problems?).
Discussing issues of oppression and privilege on a liberal message board (which is what DU has been since I desperately washed ashore here in 2002) calls us to eliminate the racist neo-Jim Crow-esque laws erupting all over the country, eliminate voter suppression laws, illegal voter caging and purges that focus on African American, Latino and other minority voters, and draconian anti-woman reproductive health care laws, help augment Marriage equality laws for LGBTIQ, promote comprehensive immigration laws and promote mental health parity - which was a major cause for Senator Wellstone before he died. If these actions make those who have privilege uncomfortable : good.
When an uber privileged wealthy man from birth like Paul "P.D." Ryan, a man who perhaps *encountered* - *at most* 10 people of color at Craig Senior High School (and that includes the wonderful people in the foreign exchange program) took complete advantage of Social Security survivor benefits as a teenager *and* benefited from the world class Janesville public school system that the UAW help to fund, wax on his racist dog whistle about the lazy inner city men, that "inner city men" have no culture of work, Um, that lace curtain Janesville tax payer funded family legacy brahman defines the "man of the people" privilege.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Privilege has a funny way of being like that.
functioning_cog
(294 posts)Visited a couple of shops in San Francisco's Chinatown and asked them what privilege is, are you certain they would know what I was talking about?
2naSalit
(86,061 posts)it's the mindset that would produce acts of heartless cruelty like this...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024664119
functioning_cog
(294 posts)Described. You actually described heartless psychopathic people with no empathy.
2naSalit
(86,061 posts)most of them are empowered by their sense of privilege. Guess it could be seen as the far end of that pendulum swing. It's one of the definitions that come to mind when I see the word.
But then I'm sure there's a milder definition if the term that was not immediately available to me when I saw your post right after reading the one I offered a link for.
Sorry if I messed up the thread, didn't mean to.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)This is close, not a quote:
You want to know how good it is to be white?
There's a white one-legged busboy in right now that won't change places with my black ass, and I'm RICH!
He's going; Nah, man I don't wanna switch.
I wanna ride this white thing out, see where it takes me!
functioning_cog
(294 posts)Just so long as I'm rich enough to hire a white driver. Lol.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)As overt racism has become less of a problem, classism has actually started to become more of a problem since the Reagan era, it seems. Wealthy People of Color do tend to be less directly affected by racism than those who are middle-class or working-class .....though they're not immune, either.
treestar
(82,383 posts)rustydog
(9,186 posts)I work at a healthcare facility in Western Washington. People call security to report suspicious people in the parking garage or in a building. When asked why they are suspicious, it is not, actions, behaviors, dress...They are BLACK!
We call it BIK: Black In Kirkland...apparently a criminal offense.
It drives me nuts. people will witness blatantly suspicious activity and not report it, but will call security when three blacks are driving into the garage to park.....OMG!
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)I like having a little walking around money even if odds are high I'll never be rich.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Originally, it was meant to be a metaphorical teaching tool, to make people think about the point of view of the disadvantaged. However, though, in more recent years, it has taken on a more literal meaning, and has, unfortunately, in tandem, sometimes used as an attack against people who disagree with the more extreme fringe elements of the SJ movement, usually referring to ethnic issues("white privilege" , though not always. Radical feminists such as Diana Boston have also abused the term to attack their own opponents, including fellow feminists, amongst other things.
(For example, with racism/other ethno-cultural based prejudices in particular, although a slight majority of the outright bigoted infighting in general on places like Tumblr, etc. appears to have been the fault of a few Individuals of Color, sad to say, there's been also a few white feminists guilty of their own bigotry, as well. There's a really decent lady from South Texas on YouTube who goes by Divinity33372 who was cruelly attacked by Diana Boston and some of her fans just for being sex-positive; some of these attacks even included ethnic slurs which I won't repeat here. This incident did not invoke the use of "privilege" as far as I can recall, but it was merely to illustrate that no one section is immune from these problems.)
functioning_cog
(294 posts)It sounds like you've studied these issues and are not absolutist.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)That poster managed to conflate white privilege with the Nixon era, bad "People of Color", and extremism.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)My previous post belonged in a movie review thread in 2007. Opps.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)in that movie!
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Always Something Special Helps Oligarchs Learn Everything
KansDem
(28,498 posts)...apparently.
fishwax
(29,146 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Lost_Count
(555 posts)KG
(28,749 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)mercuryblues
(14,491 posts)would be, being able to enjoy life without added conditions.
Like leaving work late and not having to consider what you would do if a person grabs you from behind to rape you. Checking the backseat of your car before getting in, checking under the car before approaching it.
If you get fired from your job your entire sex or race won't be called into question.
You can walk down the street without a group of people cat-calling that they want to "fuck your pert titties" If a woman tries to pick you up in a bar, you most likely won't be called " a fucking c*" if you say no.
If you have children and take an active role in parenting, you will be held up as an example and praised. If you chose not to have children, your maleness will not be called into question.
If you buy a new house or car, chances are you will be taken more seriously and get a better deal or interest rate. You will also be shown homes in areas where your neighbor has the same skin color as you.
If you are heterosexual, you most likely will not be asked when you realized you were straight. You can kiss/hold hands with your partner in public without fear of reprisal.