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Tue Mar 18, 2014, 06:07 PM

Will Ukraine Continue to Exist as a Sovereign State? Essay by Richard DeLong (my Former Son in Law)

Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 07:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Richard is my former Son in Law and has lived in the Ukraine for most of the last 12 years. He is the reason my Daughter still lives in Kyiv to this day.

His understanding of the people and culture of Ukraine is very high. He is a very intelligent and kind hearted man and I respect him deeply.

snip>

For many years I've said a terrible thing to my Ukrainian friends in private conversations:

"I don't even know if Ukraine will exist in twenty years."

The country has only been independent for a little over two decades and suffers from deep though hardly insurmountable political, cultural, and linguistic divisions. It has historically not remained independent for lengthy periods of time, and regional wars tend to rewrite its boundaries. Even though a whole generation has grown up accustomed to the idea of an independent Ukraine, a sense of fragility has always lingered in the air.

It appears that Ukraine's moment of truth has arrived. The country currently known as Ukraine is now at a historical crossroads. The range of possible near-term scenarios is more or less clear, but there is absolutely no certainty as to which path the country will take.

< snip

An interesting read that will help anyone who wishes to understand the situation in Ukraine.

He was also interviewed in a new documentary "My Revolution" which I posted a link to in the video section here at the DU.

MH

http://tryukraine.blogspot.com/2014/03/will-ukraine-continue-to-exist-as.html


here is the link to my posting in the video section...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181757

29 replies, 4110 views

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Reply Will Ukraine Continue to Exist as a Sovereign State? Essay by Richard DeLong (my Former Son in Law) (Original post)
MysticHuman Mar 2014 OP
mythology Mar 2014 #1
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #2
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #3
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #4
hfojvt Mar 2014 #5
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #6
hfojvt Mar 2014 #7
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #8
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #13
hfojvt Mar 2014 #15
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #16
KoKo Mar 2014 #9
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #11
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #10
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #12
KoKo Mar 2014 #14
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #27
Cha Mar 2014 #17
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #18
Cha Mar 2014 #19
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #20
Cha Mar 2014 #21
Cha Mar 2014 #22
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #24
Cha Mar 2014 #29
reformist2 Mar 2014 #23
MysticHuman Mar 2014 #25
Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #28
davidpdx Mar 2014 #26

Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Tue Mar 18, 2014, 06:17 PM

1. This was interesting

 

Thanks for sharing it.

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Response to mythology (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 02:58 AM

2. Not a problem mythology!

As I stated ... I know Richard well and although he is the first to admit he doesn't know everything ...he certainly understands the people and the culture.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:08 AM

3. Ukraine's history is one of those with a long struggle for self-determination.

Fortunately, the culture has remained throughout the centuries, despite episode after episode of foreign domination--most notoriously with its larger neighbor to the north and east.

Independence didn't come easy for Ukraine, nor will it stay easy.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 02:38 PM

4. Agreed....

When you read about the history of Ukraine it is one of brutality and heartache. Stalin murdered upwards of 3 million Ukrainians and left a scar that has been carried to this day with the hatred many of Ukrainian citizens have for Russia.

MH

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 03:14 PM

5. I am not sure why it should.

But I am not a big fan of nation states anyway.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 03:26 PM

6. What do you mean? nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 03:36 PM

7. the Ukraine

is about the size of California-Oregon-Washington in both size and people.

Is it a bad thing that Calorewash does not exist as a "sovereign nation"?

There are scenarios where life would be awful for the 45 million in a sovereign Ukraine and there are scenarios where life would be decent for the 45 million living in a non-sovereign Ukraine.

For me, the ultimate good, or an absolute key to the ultimate good, does NOT reside in this notion of "national sovereignty".

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 03:39 PM

8. And when you talk about a non-soveriegn Ukraine....

...exactly who then would have control over Ukraine?

Just so I'm clear as to your position here.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 07:14 PM

13. I am with Tommy...not sure where you are coming from...

That people shouldn't have the freedom to govern themselves and not under a oppessive country as Russia is?

The Ukrainian people have been brutalized by one country or another over the last few centuries... it is time they have a government they can trust.

That is all I am seeing....

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Response to MysticHuman (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 11:16 PM

15. sometimes when people "govern themselves"

they still end up with the Taliban, or Idi Amin, or Saddam, or Pol Pot,or a Putin, etc., etc., etc.

Sure and what if they lost their "national sovereignty" because they were forced to become part of Austria-Hungary?

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:59 AM

16. Understood....

of course the Taliban were Reagan's "Freedom Fighters" and the Kmer Rouge were assisted into power by the U.S. also.

At some point the consciousness of man has to be great enough to rule with honesty and integrity. I realize that we are a long way from that being the case but Ukrainians should be allowed to determine their own destiny.

If they put in power corrupt leaders the people will hopefully eventually see that and demand changes and that is what we are seeing today.

Thanks for you input and perspective.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 04:30 PM

9. An interesting read...thanks so much for posting it...

Recommend!

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Response to KoKo (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 07:09 PM

11. Thanks

As I stated Rick is a good man and has traveled the world. He is an avid hiker and once hiked the entire Pacific Coast Trail from Mexico to Canada averaging about 25 or so miles a day for over 3 months.

He and my Daughter hiked from Southern Colorado to Northern Colorado over a 3 week period.

I have never met a man quite like him...very determined and focused.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 04:34 PM

10. By the way, an interesting blog overall.

Offers a much fairer and more complete picture of thought on the street in Ukraine than what some so-called "residents" have offered here.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 07:11 PM

12. Agreed Tommy_Caretti

With the input of the others also interviewed you get a decent feel to what the mindset has been for the vast majority of Ukrainians.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 07:41 PM

14. Hey Tommy...it's quite a "Nuanced" article...though. Wouldn't you agree?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:13 AM

27. Nuanced? I suppose.....nt

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:01 AM

17. Kicking for reading later.. thanks Mystic~

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Response to Cha (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:06 AM

18. Not a problem Cha....

Check out the video also...it's very well done....

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Response to MysticHuman (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:17 AM

19. I will.. how interesting that you have a

former son-in-law who lives in the Ukraine.

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:24 AM

20. Yes...

My Daughter actually met him in Ukraine while in college. She had volunteered to help at an orphanage one summer near Kyiv and needed a translator. He happened to be the person she hired.

He came from a Mormon family and had went on a mission for the church and never really came back to the U.S. He loved the country and the people and even though he distanced himself from the LDS faith he stayed in Ukraine and then started hiking trails around the world always returning to Ukraine.

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Response to MysticHuman (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:08 AM

21. Wow..so many fascinating stories in

the world.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:44 AM

22. Very riveting.. mahalo, MH.. it's interesting that he puts this in perspective with

the whole Universe!

"If you take a really long view, such matters are of less importance than preserving and improving soil fertility and biodiversity, the loss of which would throw human civilization back to a much more primitive stage of development and permanently limit humanity's options. Compared to preserving the basic ecology upon which civilization depends, the problem of Ukraine is relatively trivial."

I knew nothing much about this area of the world but since the crisis started have been learning more and more.. I use to live in upper state New York and we had Ukainians come into our co-op and I got to know them over the years.. Nice hard working people.. Otherwise I would have no clue.

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Response to Cha (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:28 AM

24. :-)

He is quite the philosopher! As I said he is very intelligent yet admits he doesn't know it all.

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Response to MysticHuman (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:47 PM

29. ..

Sounds like a very interesting chap!

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:01 AM

23. I think many of the eastern provinces will want to leave as well, just like the Crimea.

I have a hard time believing that places that voted 70%, 80%, and 90% (see below) for a leader that this Maidan movement drove from office can be talked into sticking around.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:31 AM

25. Yes ...

I have seen these numbers in the past and it is apparent with these percentages that indeed that could happen. Putin justified taking Crimea because of the "Russian" speaking people... I am sure he feels the same way with eastern Ukraine.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:09 AM

28. Russia is probably only waiting for civil war to break out to grab those parts.

The West - and the fascist elements in Ukraine - have been inadvetently playing into the Russians hands ever since the demise of the Juschtschenko government. This will go down in history as an epic strategic blunder for western interests.

Then again, Poland and Hungary would probably welcome such a situation, and they ostensibly belong to the West now.

We live in interesting times. The Second World War is only just ending in this region.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:59 AM

26. Kick

Reading and watching the video now.

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