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Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:06 PM

Crimea: Is this question too obvious?

How do the Russians expect to get to and from the Crimea? Will the Ukrainians be checking passports, or does the taking of the Crimea include a free pass over the Ukraine to their navy yard etc. in the Crimea?

Just wondering how that all plays out.

24 replies, 1901 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Crimea: Is this question too obvious? (Original post)
rgbecker Mar 2014 OP
Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #1
Loudly Mar 2014 #2
davidpdx Mar 2014 #3
Make7 Mar 2014 #10
davidpdx Mar 2014 #11
louis-t Mar 2014 #4
rgbecker Mar 2014 #5
Loudly Mar 2014 #7
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #6
rgbecker Mar 2014 #8
Aerows Mar 2014 #13
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #15
Aerows Mar 2014 #17
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #18
Aerows Mar 2014 #19
Aerows Mar 2014 #20
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #21
Aerows Mar 2014 #22
Aerows Mar 2014 #24
MineralMan Mar 2014 #9
Johnyawl Mar 2014 #12
former9thward Mar 2014 #14
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #16
Johnyawl Mar 2014 #23

Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:09 PM

1. Through the narrow straits of Kerch. A bridge is in planning. There is a ferry, I believe. nt

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:11 PM

2. A bridge at Kerch. n/t

 

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:14 PM

3. There is a highway from the island that runs east to west

from Crimea to Russia. The island is a weird shape and has almost like a tail.

Not sure if this will work:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.857683,34.9749509,7z?hl=en

Edit: whoops I guess it is being worked on.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 06:06 PM

10. Replace the '@' in the link with '%40'.

https://www.google.com/maps/[font style="background-color:#bbddff;"]%40[/font]44.857683,34.9749509,7z?hl=en

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Response to Make7 (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 08:59 PM

11. Thanks

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:20 PM

4. Now you know why Russian troops are on the border

and trying to provoke a fight so Putin can say "we have to protect Russian people and we need overland route so we're taking this strip of land."

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:20 PM

5. Seems bridge at Kerch isn't a thing yet.

http://rt.com/business/crimea-russia-kerch-bridge-857/

They say a tunnel is the plans also.

Well that will make it easier, but not for a while.





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Response to rgbecker (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:32 PM

7. Tunnel is better, actually. Doesn't get slammed by ice. n/t

 

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:21 PM

6. I've posted this here before with a link, but an interesting thing happened last year. The

constitution was changed to allow foreign ownership of land (or something very similar. The property laws there are a mess from what I understand.) Shortly after that, the Chinese state-owned agricultural company bought or signed a 50 yr lease (depending on the story) for about 10% of Ukraine's arable land. An area about the size of the state of Massachusetts. The odd thing is, in the agreement they were supposed to also build a road/highway on Crimea and a bridge over the Strait of Kerch to connect Crimea to Russia. It doesn't appear that is how they were planning on shipping the food so it was an odd part of the contract.

Now Russia has said they would build a bridge over the Strait of Kerch. Are they scrapping the Chinese obligation or are they taking credit for the bridge the Chinese are going to build?

Also, why the inclusion of the bridge and road in the initial contract? The land was in Southeast Ukraine, but it wasn't in Crimea. Inquiring minds want to know.

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:34 PM

8. Whoa! Apparently the Soviet Union is a lot like America in 1620.

Handout land titles as is required...hope you have good connections in London, er... Moscow.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:22 PM

15. I read the article, but it still doesn't address the highway and bridge other than:

" but even erect a new highway in Crimea and a new bridge over the Strait of Kerch – two strategically important regions for Ukrainian trade. So, both countries sacrifice much in order to rely on each other."

I want to know why, specifically, they agreed to that highway and that bridge. It doesn't make sense. Not only doesn't it make sense, but there will have to be some sort of agreement since Crimea has broken off. The deal was for land in Ukraine proper. Hmm...

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:28 PM

17. I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear

 

I thought it was interesting with the land development deal. You are quite right, it doesn't shed light on building the bridge. I just thought it provided some insight and an overview of the agreement (that may or may not even be workable, now).

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Response to Aerows (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:31 PM

18. Oh yes, and I did read the entire article it was quite informative, thanks Many of the articles I've

read concerning the land deal don't even mention the highway and bridge. Bloomberg is one I remember, and they usually report all the financial info. Kind of a big deal for multiple sources to leave out, which made me even more curious.

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:38 PM

19. I would say that is at the very least

 

what I would call a "glaring omission!"

How would that even work now is kind of odd, you are right. I guess if nobody mentions it, it goes away?

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:24 PM

20. Come to think of it

 

Do you think this could be part of the motivation for the seizure of Crimea, beyond the obvious that it is a Russian military port?

It's going to be pretty difficult to ship agricultural products out of Ukraine instead of sending them through Russia first.

How do you get your kilotons of agricultural products to China without a well developed port, or land route?

I'm just speculating, I have no idea, but you bring up a very, very interesting point. Even if you used air transport (which is a rather expensive option) you are going to have to cross air spaces that may or may not demand a "tax" of one sort or the other.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:07 PM

21. I don't think it's the specific reason Putin went for Crimea, but I think it shows advanced planning

Here is a good article about Putin wanting the oil and gas rights to the Black Sea having Crimea will give him. He's blocked most attempts by Ukraine to develop their own oil and gas reserves, which is a big part of their economic problem. They've been overpaying for Russian gas and then the government has been subsidizing the price so the voters haven't pushed for energy efficiency or energy market reform. Putin has had his foot on the throat of Ukraine's economy for years.


Why go in? The answer, we think, is simple: oil and gas. Putin’s whole campaign against Ukraine could be nothing more than a land grab to ensure that Gazprom, a company in which he has considerable personal interest, controls who, how and when exploration and extraction will begin.

According to Kremlin insiders the annexation of Crimea has been 6 years in the planning.

By annexing all the land adjoining the Black Sea, Russia would also annex the offshore rights and anything found therein. It doesn’t matter that as of today the discoveries have been relatively small. If serious quantities of oil and gas were to discovered it will be too late - and that is a risk President Putin would not be prepared to take, as it would undermine his entire economic structure.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/oil-and-gas-could-explain-putins-costly-attempt-to-control-the-crimea-9193464.html

Another article explains that Crimea has a newly created gov't dept: The Ministry of Fuel and Energy and they have laid claim to the oil and gas rights.
http://www.novinite.com/articles/159015/Crimea+Claims+Ownership+to+Ukrainian+Black+Sea+Oil+and+Gas

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:10 PM

22. Thanks for the links!

 

I think you are absolutely correct with "advanced planning".

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:27 PM

24. Interesting articles

 

I think it is correct to say that it provides decisive control over Black Sea oil and gas exploration, but it also provides decisive control of exports of ANYTHING else, too (and imports). It's less of putting your boot on their neck directly and more of slowly strangling them until they have no choice but to financially fold.

Ugly situation for the Ukrainians.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:35 PM

9. That's yet to be determined,

I think. Currently, an air route is certainly possible, I'm sure.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:10 PM

12. CRIMEA IS NOT AN ISLAND!!!!! IT'S A FUCKING PENNISULA!!!


For god's sake people, look at a map, do a google search, read Wikipedia. The lack of geographical knowledge displayed in some of these threads about Crimea is staggering.

And the Russians will get to and from Crimea the same way Americans get to and from Alaska.

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Response to Johnyawl (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:20 PM

14. You mean we don't have to get permission from Canada to visit Alaska?

Wow that fear has always stopped me from visiting! Now I can go!

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Response to Johnyawl (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 09:24 PM

16. We are all aware of that, we do know how to read a map. The question is: will Ukraine allow

Russians to travel freely through Ukraine to get to Crimea given the current situation. Duh.

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #16)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:16 PM

23. No, not everybody is aware of that, I have seen it referred to as an island several times...


...in the past week, three times in this thread. And the Russians will get to Crimea the same way the US gets to Alaska. DUH!

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