My theory for the missing plane

[rickford66]

Why would someone apparently commit suicide by aircraft ? Follow the money. It doesn't look like a system problem. No terrorists have taken credit. Someone took great care to leave little or no data. If someone wanted to die for someone else's benefit all this makes sense. The families of all the passengers will be compensated heavily. But if it the connection between the family, the dead passenger or passengers and/or the culprit responsible is known, a crime would be exposed and probably no money awarded. So, the best way to cover up evidence is to leave none or make it nearly impossible to find it. I'm sure the black boxes (flight recorder and voice recorder) if or when found will have little or no data. The CB's would have been pulled when the ARCARS and transponders were disabled. The culprit may have had a terminal disease or just acting heroically for his family's benefit so his/her life was easily sacrificed. My apologies if anyone already proposed this scenario. I don't have cable and have watched very little news coverage. OK, shoot me down.

[customerserviceguy]

1. Until wreckage is discovered

I will believe there is a possibility that this plane was seized in flight, and may well come back to haunt some high-value target as a weapon.

If what had happened on 9/11 had been proposed on 9/10 or before, it would have been dismissed as improbable or impossible. Our enemies spend a lot of time, money, and effort trying to defeat us.

[LeftyMom]

5. That's just stupid.

Diverting a plane a relatively short distance from it's expected path when it's already in the air over a congested area is one thing. Taking off for a target in a plane everybody on God's green earth is already looking for weeks after it disappeared under highly suspicious circumstances is quite another. That plane goes up in the air every air force in the region scrambles jets to force it down.

If AQ or some similar group wanted to launch a flight and control it the whole way for some reason they'd just buy a plane or steal one on the ground. It would be easier and cheaper than stealing a 777, landing it safely without witnesses and hiding it for weeks.

Use common sense kids.

[customerserviceguy]

24. It's only stupid

if you're not creative.

I would imagine that a stolen aircraft would be substituted for one that is blown up, and given the length of time it takes for us to figure out that a plane has gone missing, there's still plenty of time for the damage to be done. Also, nobody would pull this mere weeks after an aircraft was stolen, and they might even find ways to seed some flotsam to give everybody the idea that there was indeed a crash.

Way too many suspicious things still here to explain away by the Malaysian government (who has not been forthright and honest since this whole thing began) saying "Nothing to see here folks, just move along." And common sense was what locked us into thinking pre-9/11 that it couldn't happen, that the terrorists weren't sophisticated enough to pull off a major scheme. We've managed to thwart much of what they've tried to do, but all they have to do is be successful once, we have to be right every time.

[wercal]

31. You Heard it Hear First!

Nobody 'stole' the plane.

The 'stolen plane' theory takes for granted that a passenger jet is necessary to do some dastardly deed.

Its not.

Can't explosives be put into...um...I dunno...a private jet?

That way you can skip the simple steps of

a) Stealing an airliner while in flight
b) Eluding RADAR and flying it to a destination
c) Setting up a place that is
1. Big enough to land the plane
2. Has a place to hide the plane
3. Is not covered by RADAR
4. Has facilities to refuel the plane/drag it around on the ground/do maintenance
5. Has a mechanic capable of turning off the engine pinger
d) Finding a pilot capable of landing a huge plane on a makeshift runway without a beacon system
e) Disposing of 230 people
f) Taking off a jumbo jet and flying to a target without being detected by RADAR again.

[customerserviceguy]

43. You think too small

A private jet has far less potential explosive capacity. A fully-loaded 777 could do some severe damage. As for the radar detection as it nears the target, I would imagine that there is some way to spoof the signal of a jet headed for the final destination city, that has itself been blown up in flight. This situation has exposed many vulnerabilities in our ability to track aircraft in real time, and even if it's not a terrorist plot, believe me, they learned plenty from it.

I'm sure the original 9/11 plot would have looked like some Tom Clancy fantasy before they actually pulled it all off.

[wercal]

45. Lucy, can you 'splain where the airplane is then?

Its not 'thinking small' to recognize the impossibility of flitting around the skies over Asia for 6-7 hours, undetected by RADAR.

Do you believe the two possible arcs that have been presented are true? Or a conspiracy theory?

If you believe them to be true, the plane either:

1. Flew into the middle of nowhere over the Indian Ocean and crashed
2. Flew over one of the most reclusive nations on earth (China) and continued on over one of the most contested borders on earth (India/Pakistan) without being seen on RADAR.

Only option 2 allows it to land...and logic dictates that did....not...happen.

Quite frankly, tilting at bad theories is small thinking. You have to be realistic.

A few things about your post:

"A fully-loaded 777 could do some severe damage"....you are 100% correct...which is why a terrorist would simply take said jet, do a 180, and fly it into those giant Malaysian towers. That's a whole lot easier than a plan so complex it makes Alice's Restaurant seem simple.

"I would imagine that there is some way to spoof the signal of a jet....".....seriously, sit back and read that. Now the plan is dependent on 'spoofing'?!?!? At some point a theory is too complicated and not workable.

"This situation has exposed many vulnerabilities in our ability to track aircraft in real time..."....how? Really - what does the ability of a Malaysian airline have to do with 'our ability' to do anything? For starters, how about this - Malaysia didn't subscribe to the engine monitoring service, which would have given much more detailed information...in real time btw....about the flight. Guess what? US carriers do subscribe to these services. And we have sophisticated missile detection systems and an array of electronic protections over the east coast that we hardly even know about. NTC is not Malaysia...the terrorist have learned very little.

I'll tell you what. If this plane is found to have landed intact, I will make a youtube video of somebody giving me a 'customerserviceguy was right' tattoo and post it here. That plane is in a million pieces right now.

[customerserviceguy]

46. While I'm flattered by the tattoo offer

I'll be far more convinced when one of those pieces (and not just stuff ripped out of the inside) is found. A million pieces (your phrase, not mine) cannot stay together at the bottom of the ocean for terribly long.

I know that the folks whose job it is to keep us safe will all breathe much easier when that happens. In the meantime, I sincerely hope that they are planning for the possibility of using that 777 as a terror weapon, and will figure out ways to add one more safety transmission feature to that aircraft type as soon as humanly possible, then broadcast the fact that they've done so.

[wercal]

48. I sincerely hope that no effort is wasted in preparation

for a phantom jumbo jet that no longer exists. Resources are finite, and they shouldn't be squandered on nonsense.

Again, unless the engine pings are discounted as being falsified in some way, we know two potential paths for the plane...and only one is possible. You can rest assured the plane is no more.

And once more...why be prepared for 'using a 777 as a terror weapon'? I'm sure a 767 could just as easily be used as a terror weapon any day of the week...or a private jet. I fail to understand why a jet has to be stolen/landed/loaded with explosives to be used as a terror weapon. Those AQ fellas are a crafty bunch...they seem to be able to use an airplane, with explosive results, without such complicated plans.

BTW, a method already exists to track every passenger airplane in real time. It is well known. Nothing stops the airlines from transmitting black box info to a server in real time, via satellite.....that is, nothing but money. Estimates are it would cost $300 million per airline to do this. That cost would have to be weighed against the search cost for this crash (yes I promise it did), the Air France crash, and any others that caused extensive search efforts. Or, maybe they could just do this for international flights, because....you know...when an airplane flies over land it can generally be tracked by RADAR...making it impossible to steal an aircraft and land undetected, unless you find that Dr. Evil island out there.

[customerserviceguy]

49. Like I said

we'll see if wreckage turns up. I doubt that any stolen plane would be used any time soon, terrorists would want to either use it immediately (like wrecking those Kuala Lumpur towers) or after everybody had pretty much forgotten about it, and was thus not guarding against it.

You may be 100% reassured by the Malaysian government's firm declarations, but I will reserve judgement about what I think happened to that plane as long as it is still substantially missing.

[wercal]

50. What Malaysian firm?

The satellite data has been provided by a British company.

You don't believe the two arcs that have been shown, do you?

If you don't believe what is known with great certainty...but are willing to believe completely unfounded theories...ANYTHING is possible, I suppose.

But I'm fairly confident I won't be getting that tattoo.

[customerserviceguy]

54. It was a firm declaration

They took the satellite company's "most likely" and changed it to an absolute. That's what I was referring to.

And yes, there are two arcs. One of them goes over territory that is poorly controlled by the Pakistani government, that's why I still have some suspicions. But I hope you are right, I wouldn't want to feel responsible for a tattooing!

[tarheelsunc]

26. The farther away you fly the plane, the less likely it is someone would look there. eom

[Motown_Johnny]

25. Epic Fail. People were trying to fly planes into things for decades

One "lone wolf" even tried to hijack a plane and fly it into the White House while NIXON was in office.


It was well known for a very long time that planes could be used the way they were on 9-11.

[yeoman6987]

28. The airline is giving each passengers family 5,000 dollars

I would hardly think that is plenty.

[rickford66]

34. Not much now, but wait for the lawsuits.

I bet each family gets at least a million.

[former9thward]

38. Big money from lawsuits comes from the U.S.

This is not a U.S. incident. Asian countries have completely different legal systems and few lawsuits. They won't get much.

[rickford66]

40. We'll see.

[Jenoch]

44. The families of the three Americans

on board will likely get somewhere around $8 to $10 million.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/mh370-families-might-get-millions-if-theyre-american-n61521

[blue neen]

2. Anything is possible.

It's a very elaborate scheme, as far as suicide is concerned.

[rickford66]

3. No. I think it's fairly simple.

Seize control, cut communications, stop sending and recording data, fly as far away from land as possible until you run out of fuel.

[blue neen]

4. We can't really say for sure what's in the mind of someone who is going to kill themselves.

IMHO, this would have had to be well planned....and maybe it was. Time will tell!

[rickford66]

7. Why be so secretive.

Just do what the EgyptAir Flight 990 pilot did. Push the stick forward.

[JimDandy]

18. Because then it clearly would be suicide

and no insurance money would be forthcoming for the family left behind. That is the OP's theory.

[Gravitycollapse]

9. You think someone that psychopathic is capable of feeling sympathy for family members?

You've created a very unlikely human being as a possible culprit. Someone who is so narcissistic that he or she downs an airplane with hundreds of people on board is unlikely to be capable of feeling sympathy for family members.

[rickford66]

16. Yes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. That'd be the chicken (my way) out...

Once the plane runs out of fuel, it's irrevocable. Not sure I could point the nose at the crabs and power in.

[Chan790]

35. Well, except for the obvious issue...

not that they will because it would be a PR disaster for them, but technically, insurance companies don't have to concede those people are dead and pay the claims until they are legally considered dead...in 7 years.

If you were going to suicide by plane...it makes more sense to crash in an easily recoverable area so that your remains can be recovered so the insurer has to pay-out ASAP.

[Auntie Bush]

41. Agreed!

[Gravitycollapse]

6. That's a ludicrously unlikely scenario.

And much, much less likely than the more plausible, more common possibility that the wreckage has been extremely difficult to find.

Never assume genius when stupidity or mistake is a likely culprit.

[tblue37]

11. Or mechanical malfunction or electrical fire. nt

[former9thward]

39. Mechanical or electrical would have resulted in a distress call.

The plane flew for hours with no communication.

[rickford66]

13. Then what purpose was served?

I proposed a reason. People have been killed for insurance money before. Maybe not this way. We'll see. If I could I'd bet you all a nice cold beer on this. I didn't assume a genius did this. Turning off a switch, pulling a few breakers, changing heading select doesn't take genius. If the crew wasn't involved, overpowering them was the hard part and we know it's been done many times. This was especially easy because the crew was known to let passengers into the cockpit. And the reason "that the wreckage has been extremely difficult to find" as you point out, is what drove someone to make it "extremely difficult to find". The families will probably be paid off and still no motive may surface.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. Why do you assume random chance can't generate a remote crash site?

[rickford66]

17. OK

The transponder turns off randomly. At least three specific circuit breakers pop for no reason. The plane all by itself makes a coordinated turn towards a very remote spot until it runs out of fuel. You convinced me. Sure it's possible but not probable. More probable that someone did all this for a purpose .... money.

[Reter]

8. No mater what happens, no one ever takes a time portal theory seriously

However, until something is recovered, I do.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Do you have any evidence that time portals exist?

[BainsBane]

12. The thing crashed in the ocean

It was an accident or some fuck up, but I see no reason to make some complicated theory out of the situation. When a plane is flying over rough seas like the Indian Ocean, it's not really so surprising it goes unfound. The ocean is vast, rough, and desolate, and it's extremely difficult to find anything under such circumstances. Despite the changing stories from the Malaysian government and other sources, my opinion has stayed pretty much the same. The thing is at the bottom of the ocean somewhere, in a number of pieces. We'll probably never find it or know what caused it to crash.

[rickford66]

15. It crashed because it ran out of fuel.

And it may never be found. Come to think of it, didn't the book "Airport" have a passenger who wanted to blow up a plane so his family could collect the insurance. Maybe that was in the back of my mind. Someone close to me is convinced about a time warp. Ya, right. Anyway it wasn't an accident or fuck up. The facts don't fit.

[newdemocrat999]

19. I mostly agree on that point , but pilot suicide?

I don't really buy it unless Malaysian officials are covering up evidence they have on it.
These guys have thrown a wrench in every investigation outside sources tried to conduct on the search.

It appears like they didn't want the plane found .

[rickford66]

20. Not neccessarily one of the pilots.

Keeping in mind the crews lax security in the past, anyone could have taken control. I don't think the Malaysians are covering up anything. I just think they're in over their heads and keep shooting in the dark.

[The Wielding Truth]

22. Welcome to DU, newdemocrat999 . Nice post. I hope you do many more.

[marions ghost]

23. That makes no sense that

"they didn't want the plane found."

OK it wasnt handled particularly well, but I don't think for a minute anybody in Malaysia did not want that plane found.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. Welcome to DU

I don't think the Malaysian officials have much control about this evidence. It all seems to be coming from outside sources.

So many different entities are looking into this, I think all evidence will eventually be known.

[Auntie Bush]

42. Welcome to DU newdemocrat999

You're going to love this place. Enjoy!

Warning! Sometimes you'll have to put your hard hat and safety belt on.

[Loudly]

29. The disappearance of MH370 occurred the same week as the Uygher knife attack at the railway station.

Two Muslim pilots and a plane full of Chinese nationals?

This was an act of solidarity with the Uygher separatists.

Dump the plane in the drink in as remote a place as your fuel will carry you.

Made to look like Allah himself had magically made the plane disappear.

To punish evil godless China.

Nothing to do with money, just religious insanity.

[mainer]

30. Some conspiracy theories I've heard are even more creative

The latest one online:

-- Plane had high-value cargo (bioweapons, state secrets, or something else) that the CIA wanted
-- Plane diverted by CIA to Diego Garcia (which is why US military reported no radar sightings of the plane, even though the flight path of this plane should have taken it close to Diego Garcia) Passengers killed enroute by "dumping" the air from the cabin.
-- High value cargo offloaded.
-- Plane (and dead passengers) ditched as far away as possible, where recovery would be difficult. By now, the flight recorder would be of little value since it only has 2 hours' worth of voice recordings.
-- In the meantime, send the world scurrying elsewhere to look for plane.
-- There were reports of infectious disease specialists being flown to Diego Garcia last week. Does this go along with the bioweapons cargo? Or if you're REALLY imaginative, you'd postulate that there's some alien organism on board that the military wants to study...

[peace13]

32. Where did the plane go that supposedly hit the Pentagon?

Think about it. Whatever hit the Pentagon flew along the ground with amazing skill, more like a missile. It made a round hole and left no airplane parts outside the building. Yet....the story is that a beginner pilot flew a jet into the building. The eye witnesses on TV turned out to be men of money and power yet..... no one has followed up on this. It is understood that a jet hit the building.

The question is, if they can disappear one jet full of people why would we think that it could not happen again.

I do not know what happened to the most recent missing plane but the 'official' stories vary and change with the wind. It is hard to know what went on there. Maybe they want it that way.

[Orrex]

33. Chuck Norris sez this thread is suddenly bound for the dungeon

Bound, like your legs won't be when you wear

[peace13]

36. Too funny!

I held it in as long as I could officer! But your point is well taken. Even at DU there are things that are not to be mentioned and we play along. I have been here a long time and never had a demerit. Not that I want one but I will put on my big girl pants and take it if necessary. Thanks for the laugh! Kim

[kentuck]

37. I don't discount your theory but...

I still have questions about the missing plane and the onboard computer? Was it possible to program it externally? How secure are these computers?

[rickford66]

53. As for the flight computer...

I've programmed them on simulators where we use the real aircraft suite of avionics. I don't see any way to program them externally on the fly. A number of flight plans can be stored but they would be punched in on the aircraft or transferred by disc and loaded. I've never worked on a 777 so there may be some new way to do this, but with the threat of terrorism I tend to doubt it. People are making this too complex. Turning the aircraft didn't take a genius or an act of re-programming. Just move the heading select knob for the autopilot. My theory proposed in this post will be the correct scenario if the voice recorder is found with enough data, but I assume as I've previously wrote, the culprit pulled the CB and no relevant conversations were recorded. All we will ever know is that someone or someones diverted the aircraft and ran out of fuel.... and there will be monetary settlements of some sort....and that will also prove my theory. It was done for some victim's family's benefit.

[treestar]

47. Possible though pretty inconsiderate of everyone else on the plane!

If you have to kill yourself, don't take anyone with you.

[Warpy]

51. Don't buy it.

The first turn looked like an attempt to find a place to land after some sort of catastrophic failure that had knocked communications (including the transponder) out.

The only suicide scenario I can buy is the Egyptian pilot some years ago who was on one of his last flights before forced retirement. I had an uncle who loved flying enough that if he'd had a last flight before they told him he was grounded, he might have taken it down rather than going into a grumpy retirement, deprived of the one thing he truly loved.

[seveneyes]

52. Why would someone apparently commit suicide by aircraft?

I can't explain why but Egypt Air Flight 990 appeared to be a case of it. I doubt the 217 passengers and pilot were in agreement with copilot's suicidal mission.