Pro-Russian Ukrainians attacked by "uniformed vigilantes" in eastern Ukraine.

[another_liberal]

Incidents of anti-Russian violence seem to be on the rise in eastern Ukraine, with vigilantes attacking pro-Russian protesters and even Russians who were only traveling across Ukraine on passenger trains. This kind of lawlessness and brutality just plays into the hands of those who seek further violations of Ukrainian territory.

Vigilantes harass pro-Russian ribbon wearers in Ukraine

A group of Ukrainian vigilantes have been hunting out people they accused of being "pro-Russian thugs", according to a video which surfaced on YouTube. The "thugs" were detained, frisked, roughed up and handed over to police. The video was shot in Dnepropetrovsk in eastern Ukraine and shows a group of people wearing paramilitary uniform – some of them masked – run after and catch several people. Judging from the comments heard, those caught are suspected of trying to stage a pro-Russian picket of a police station.

At least two of the people, whom the hunters brand as ‘titushki’, or hired thugs, were caught and frisked. Both had St. George ribbons on them, a common pro-Russian symbol associated with the Soviet Union's contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany. On discovering the ribbons the attackers apparently start to treat those caught more violently. One of them is threatened with a knife while another one gets punched in the face.

It appears the footage was taken and uploaded by the vigilantes themselves. In addition to the activists the video shows what appears to be a television crew covering the hunt, complete with a cameraman, his assistant and a couple of female reporters.

(snip)

Last week Russian passengers on a train going from Russia to Moldova through Ukraine were reportedly robbed by members of the local ultra-nationalist Insurgent Army. There were also several high-profile incidents of apparent anarchy taking reign, including a night takeover of a Kiev bank by armed civilians and a raid on a liquor plant. Eastern Ukraine remains divided. Many people there are opposing the new authorities and call for greater autonomy for their regions. Several activists have been taken into custody on orders from Kiev accused of separatism. Street protests in eastern Ukraine turned violent on several occasions over the past week, with at least one case of unidentified attackers shooting at a group of pro-Russian activists and injuring one of them.

To read more, and to see video of the attack, go to: http://rt.com/news/pro-russian-picket-ukraine-397/

[Jim__]

1. I hope that doesn't provide the excuse for Russia to step in and "restore order." - n/t

[another_liberal]

4. I'm afraid that an armed conflict with Russia is just what these people want.

Some now largely marginalized groups would have a chance to gain considerable power and importance during such a conflict.

[joeybee12]

2. The RT makes Fox Noise look legit...nt

[another_liberal]

3. Give it a rest already, joey.

Some people seem to never have anything to say except: "I hates that RT News! I hates that RT News all damn day long!"

I mean really . . .

[OilemFirchen]

9. What's not to like?

"... according to a video which surfaced on YouTube."
"Judging from the comments heard, those caught are suspected of trying to stage a pro-Russian picket of a police station."
"On discovering the ribbons the attackers apparently start to treat those caught more violently."
"It appears the footage was taken and uploaded by the vigilantes themselves."
"Last week Russian passengers on a train going from Russia to Moldova through Ukraine were reportedly robbed by members of the local ultra-nationalist Insurgent Army."
"There were also several high-profile incidents of apparent anarchy taking reign..."

[another_liberal]

13. Disregard what you wish . . .

But would you be as dismissive if this were a case of Keystone XL Pipeline opponents being manhandled by vigilantes for trying to organize a protest? I kind of doubt you would.

[OilemFirchen]

26. I'm dismissive of any news report...

which relies entirely on innuendo, gossip, anonymous sources, unverifiable accounts and unattributable videos. I'm dismissive of any news agency which divines motive and assigns blame based on the above. That's what Fox News does, and even they don't have the imprimatur of the state lording over their reportage.

I'm old enough to remember when journalists were ethically bound to second-source, unless it was impossible. I'll never accept journalism which neglects even first-sourcing.

So, to answer your question, if a comparable article reported the events you've described in the same manner... yes, I'd disregard it.

[Adrahil]

74. I noticed you never posted about the....

... pro Ukrainian Tatar who was "escorted" away from a protest in Crimea, and who later was found in a shallow grave.

I guess that doesn't fit your narrative.

[joeybee12]

15. From Putin's lips to your ears...

The RT is garbage, and yes I will disregard garbage...you're making yourself look really foolish by simply posting Russian propganda and trying to act all high and mighty like it's fact. I really don't understand why you hate the Ukranians so much...it's unsettling.

[another_liberal]

23. I resent your unfounded accusation, sir!

I have never implied any "hate" or even dislike for the Ukrainian people. I have blood relations who are of Ukrainian descent, and I love them very much. You are way out of line, period.

What I do hate, and very intensely, is the cynical manipulation of what were genuine and sincere protests against governmental corruption, manipulation used to cause the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine. Our government and our allies did that, and did it for purely venal and economically imperialistic reasons at that.

[CreekDog]

62. pointing out bullshit never goes out of style

[sabrina 1]

17. Interesting, so you think Faux is a legitimate news org? RT IS one of the better international news

organizations which in no way could be compared to Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine for the Right.

RT does have some bias in their opinion shows, mostly towards the LEFT. Which is why some people don't like it. Right Wingers eg, hate it.

An award winning news organization very much like Al Jazeera with excellent and ACTUAL informed JOURNALISTS reporting NEWS all over the world.

Maybe it's the 'left bias' some people don't like. Liberal voices, now have a place to be heard. I know that is a problem for the right.

[joeybee12]

19. That's freaking insane...

The RT is garbage known for making shit up...sorry you think Pro-Putin proganda is actually fact, but it's nauseating...you've bought hook, line and sinker into the party line about Putin good, all Ukranians bad. Fuck that shit,.

Oh, and thank you for standing up for the RT which provides cover for the rampant homophobia in Russia.

[sabrina 1]

49. Never watched it, did you? Just repeating what you think you are supposed to say.

You support the US backing the Ukraine government? I suggest you look into Ukraine's recent history of homophobia, among other issues.

For you to smear the reporters on RT, most of whom are Americans, French, British, Australian etc, mostly Left leaning, most of whom support Gay Rights and speak about the subject and give voice to Russia's Gay Activists tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.

Next time you decide to comment on a subject, learn something about it first.

Btw, RT did not fire Abby Martin who trashed Putin on RT for Crimea despite all the predictions of those who have never watched it.

Lol, those who are familiar with RT had no fear she would be fired.

However if she had done that on MSNBC regarding Bush on Iraq, she WOULD have been fired, like Donohue and Banfield and all the others who were silenced.

Kudos to RT for allowing their employees to say what they think without fear of being fired. Hopefully one day we will go back to allowing reporters here to report FACTS. Had that been the case, there would have been no Iraq.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. The full blown anti gay bias on RT should be enough to turn the stomach of

equality minded people. It is a conservative, bigoted world view that they present.
It is not liberal, not 'left' it favors and excuses discriminatory laws against a minority group. That's not what liberals do. The left should be about equality for all and support for the civil rights struggles of oppressed people everywhere, RT shills for the oppressors, excuses the oppression and often attacks the oppressed.
Here today you are speaking for an anti gay international media group. Not for the minority in the streets, you side as usual with the powerful international consortium opposing that minority.
Barf. Just barf.

[sabrina 1]

50. RT has talked more about Gay Rights, interviewed Russian Activists, than anything I saw on

our own Corporate media, especially up to very recently when our own laws regarding Gay rights were nothing to be proud of.

Nearly all of RT's American reporters are supporters of minority rights.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You read and watch what you choose, and I will do the same. Anti Gay Rights affects my family deeply. I am proud of my lifelong support for ALL those who are oppressed and will use whatever means I can to try to end discrimination of all kinds.

Still waiting for our own Corporate Media to speak out about the US support for some of the worst Human Rights abusers the US Government supports, but I won't hold my breath.

Do NOT tell me what I am speaking for. I am MORE THAN CAPABLE of speaking for myself, as a majority of people here KNOW.

Barf is right, your constant personal attacks which have zero foundation in fact say more about you than those you are constantly attacking. They do not affect me in the slightest. I know the facts and give your opinion of ME all the credit it deserves. Barf about covers it.

[Bandit]

5. A false flag attack

Russia could easily be using un marked uniformed troops to create the impression that Russians in Ukraine need Russia's help. An excuse to move Russian soldiers into Ukraine and lay claim to more land.

[another_liberal]

6. That is a possibility . . .

It certainly can't be discounted out-of-hand.

[Bosonic]

7. Russia building up troop levels on Ukraine border: US

Russia building up troop levels on Ukraine border: US

Washington (AFP) - Russia has added troops on Ukraine's border in recent days despite assurances it would not attack the country's east, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Wednesday.

Although Russia's defense minister had told Hagel last week that Moscow would not send troops into eastern Ukraine, "the reality is that they continue to build up their forces, so they need to make sure they stay committed to what Minister (Sergei) Shoigu told me," the Pentagon chief told reporters after meeting his British counterpart.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-building-troop-levels-ukraine-border-us-164825960.html;_ylt=AwrBJSBlCDNTzxcAKgfQtDMD

[snappyturtle]

76. The ultra-nationalists and neo-nazis could be doing the same hoping Russians

would be blamed....all the while they're doing what they've set out to do.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Any sources on this other than RT?

I'm not saying they couldn't have happened, but I'd like an independent verification before I blindly believe what RT says.

[another_liberal]

11. There is clearly no interest on the part of major Western media to cover this story

Though there is clearly no interest on the part of major Western media to cover this story, and not that the video seemed staged, or that the Russia Today News report didn't seem believable in the context of groups like Svoboda and Right Sector being active in the "New Ukraine":

http://www.prisonplanet.com/vigilantes-harass-pro-russian-ribbon-wearers-in-ukraine.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=396_1395625954

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/20/ukraine-nationalist-attacks-russia-supporters-kremlin-deaths

[The Magistrate]

14. You Are Citing PRISONPLANET, Sir? You Have Just Lost the Internets....

[another_liberal]

16. As I said . . .

There is clearly no interest on the part of major Western media to cover this story. I guess it just doesn't conform to the predetermined script of how to cover events in the "New Ukraine."

[The Magistrate]

22. The Guardian Is Major Media, Sir

And had you left it with a citation of the Guardian article, you would not have exposed yourself so thoroughly.

Citing Alex Jones is a frank confession of a lack of sound judgement and serious intent, and strongly suggests your real interest is simply engaging in provocation for the Lulz.

[another_liberal]

24. I was asked for other sources, I found what was quickly available and offered them.

I have never heard of Prison planet before and did not even know it was affiliated with Alex Jones, who I do disdain for entirely different reasons.

[The Magistrate]

27. Put Bluntly, Sir: I Do Not Believe You

And if you are going to posture as a person of expertise, you are responsible for the sites you link to, and ought to have the sense, even if only to be competent at imposture, not to link to sites which utterly discredit you, and which are treated seriously only by people who lack sound judgement and basic knowledge of affairs. As it is, you have made it clear you are not serious, and that the most likely explanation for what you are doing is simply engaging in provocation for the Lulz.

[bobthedrummer]

63. Badgering? n/t

[sabrina 1]

71. Why do you not believe the poster? I do. Not everyone is familiar with right wing sites although I

do find it disturbing that a few here seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on them.

I remember posting links to sites when arguing with Right Wingers during the Bush era. They could not wait to jump all over any link posted by a Democrat. Not being familiar with every site or their biases at that time, they had a field day for a while until I became more familiar with them.

After which I searched for sites THEY found credible. Once forced to deal with the TOPIC they found other ways to avoid it, always trying to avoid discussing what they found to be inconvenient.

It was clear when they used that tactic it was intended to change the discussion from the topic to trivia, and most of the time, before we Dems became more experienced with their tactics, it worked. Being honest most Dems fell for it initially, went into defensive mode and the mission was accomplished.

In the end though, all they accomplished was to teach US tactics most ordinary people would never have thought of because most ordinary people are sincere, not trying to manipulate others.

I believe the poster, and it is more than in their favor that they ARE NOT familiar with those sites imho.

[bobthedrummer]

60. Thus Speaks The Magistrate-Silence Is Commanded!

You are highly biased too, old timer.

[sabrina 1]

18. Also cited The Guardian. Did you see the Guardian Link?

Why would anyone doubt this anyhow? It's not new. Just new to Americans who never pay attention to these countries until the MSM has some reason to focus on them, like our involvement in the coup in Kiev.

[The Magistrate]

20. And Should Have Left It At That, Ma'am, But He Did Not

He led with a citation of Alex Jones, which is a frank confession of lacking sound judgement and serious intent.

Once a person has cited Alex Jones, there is no reason to take him seriously, and every reason to suppose his only interest is provocation for the Lulz....

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Guardian: Ukraine nationalist attacks on Russia supporters – fact or Kremlin fairyt

"Ukraine nationalist attacks on Russia supporters – fact or Kremlin fairytale?
Deaths of pro-Russians at hands of Ukrainian government supporters the perfect pretext for further Kremlin aggression."
Excerpt:
"According to civil rights groups, however, the Kremlin's account of anti-Russian persecution is a dark fairytale – "entirely fictional", as one put it. It is, they say, a made-up scenario scripted in Moscow for state TV, and now played out on the ground by pro-Russian activists and bussed-in professionals. Russian propaganda has been extremely effective, they add. Many trust Russian state TV rather than what they see on the streets, which are strikingly bereft of fascists."

The Prison Planet link is just the RT story again. I actually looked. It says what the OP says and links to RT.

[newthinking]

40. Facts can be so inconvenient when they don't fit with your preconceived notions

One of the reasons you don't see everything on western press is because Svoboda has basically been put in charge of "freedom of speech" and they are heavily censuring media. See the video below" That is a member of Parliment and leader of the Svoboda party roughing up the head of a tv station there.

No, there is no violence against anti-maidan! right

2 Killed, 5 Injured In Shooting In Central Kharkiv (Right Sector shoots at Pro-Russian activists)

(Not the best translation (below), events are as follows:

*A Blue Van pulled up and shot automatic weapons at a group of "Pro-Russian activists" near the square

*Some of the activists regognized the van as one that had also shot at people on March 8th

* The van tried to flee but activists followed on motorcycles

*The Van fled to a "Patriot of Ukraine" office and tried to hide inside.

*"Kharkiv Self-Defence" representatives (Militia) and local police gathered at the office and tried to enter and those inside (30-40 ppl) used guns and "petrol bombs" and killed one man and a passer-by, and injured 5 others including a policeman.

* Right sector took hostages in the process

*Eventually those in the building surrendered (They were surrounded by militia, 200 pro-russian activists who had arrived, and police)

http://un.ua/eng/article/498355.html

2 Killed, 5 Injured In Shooting In Central Kharkiv

Two people were killed and five injured on March 14 night in a shooting near the office of the non-government organisation Patriot of Ukraine at 18 Rymarska Street in central Kharkiv, a police spokesman has told Ukrainian News Agency. Eyewitnesses say unknown people from a blue Volkswagen T4 van were shooting from traumatic weapons at pro-Russian activists from the "Kharkiv Self-Defence" movement in Svobody Square in Kharkiv on March 14 evening. Eyewitnesses maintain that from the same van with Dnipropetrovsk registration number they were shooting at a car full of pro-Russian activists in Pravdy Avenue in Kharkiv on March 8. The van was hijacked.

They made several shots, threw a tear gas pot, and tried to escape, but bikers from the square set to pursuit and found out that the van approached the building at 18 Rymarska Street.

"Kharkiv Self-Defence" representatives tried to penetrate the Patriot of Ukraine office but the people inside responded with shooting from traumatic weapons through windows, and later shotgun pellets from short rifles, and also threw a stun grenade and a petrol bomb at the attackers. In the shooting one "Kharkiv Self-Defence" representative and an accidental passer-by was killed, five injured, including a policeman, who sustained a serious injury in the chest; all wounded were taken to hospital. The people inside the building took three hostages: two of the building's guardsmen and a police officer, who entered it for negotiations.


SNIP

At about 04:30 the people in the building agreed to ground arms and surrender.
Policemen removed people from the building, searched them, led into buses, and drove away.
Preliminary information, some 30 people were detained.


Ukraine PM on "Free Speech Commitee" (seriously!) doing his job

Svoboda and Right Sector are terrorizing the population with impunity (the MP in video beating up a broadcaster is still in government). It is not being covered. Why? Because they are controlling all media and anyone who reports anything negative will be assaulted or beaten. Oh, and the two largest media oligarchs are with the Government. Media is effectively muted!

Yet still some reports are getting out.

We should all be able to agree this is not right.

[center]Take action -- click here to contact your local newspaper or congress people
(link leads to OpEdNews)[/center]

http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/Results-of-the-Ultra-in-by-George-Eliason-Anti-semitic_Anti-semitism_Crimea_Fascism-140324-700.html

Excerpts from:
Results of the "Ultra" in Maidan: Key Issues and Nuclear Weapons
By George Eliason , OpEdNews

Freedom of Expression

Today in Ukraine all social media are data-mined. The profiles are geo-located and normal people expressing their opinions are persecuted . They found this young man and took him out into the dark.

"You little F#cker! You tell the Ukrainian People you are sorry for all the sh@t you wrote on the internet!"

"I'm sorry for everything I wrote on the internet to all Ukrainian people ."

"Do you want another beating?"

"No."

"Are you going to write anymore sh@t?"

"No."

"Do you have anything to do with ultra coalminers?"

"No."

This is the new EU standard of freedom of speech in Ukraine. Freedom of speech and press are guaranteed by two men who are becoming familiar faces, Svoboda MP Igor Miroshnynchenko and party ideologist Andrey Ilyenko.

The only freedom of speech MP Igor is intent on guaranteeing is that you agree with the Ultra Nationalist line. The crime committed by the government-owned TV station was showing Vladimir Putin's speech about Crimea in its entirety. Today MP Igor is as unrepentant as the day he beat up, broke the collar bone of, and threatened Aleksandr Panteleymonov. Aleksandr was accused of being a Moskal. The Ministry of Justice is headed by Svoboda. Four days later, no charges have been filed.

[H3]As Far-Right Groups Infiltrate Kiev’s Institutions, the Student Movement Pushes Back [/H3]
http://www.thenation.com/article/178662/far-right-groups-infiltrate-kievs-institutions-student-movement-pushes-back

Outside the hall, a dozen self-defense volunteers with improvised helmets, breastplates and billy clubs were patrolling the building and its perimeter.

“We’ve been expecting Svoboda will try to kick us out,” said Ilya Vlasiuk, an activist who was guarding the sealed offices on the second floor, referring to to the ultranationalist party whose militant wing has attacked progressive activists, including Vlasiuk, at the Euromaidan demonstrations around Independence Square.

[H3]Right Sector free to bully and harass people and businesses with impunity[/H3]

[The Magistrate]

43. Reads Like A Scrap Between Two Gangs, Sir

There is nothing official about the Karkhov Self-Defense bunch, as your use of 'militia' attempts to suggest, nor is there any question they are siding with Russia against Ukraine in a militarized crisis, as you use of quotes around 'pro-Russian activists' suggest, nor does the phrase "bikers from the square' suggest they are of peaceable character themselves.

The incident ended with arrests, superintended by local officials responsible to the Kiev government, which suggests something very different from unbridled persecution of people simply opposed to a fascist government gathered in the name of freedom and free debate.

[newthinking]

45. factual contortions are unbecoming of a "Magistrate".

How do you justify the Svobvoda PM in the video. Lets hear the squirming on that. I'd say it would be uncomfortable for me to try and justify neo-nazi's but if you feel differently be free to do so.

Oh, by the way he still has his position. Which in itself is telling.

[The Magistrate]

46. Accurate Observation, Sir, About the Incident Described In The News Report Linked To In The Post

It is your preconceptions, evidently, the reality of the situation does not match.

I consider neither side in this to be particularly savory. My ire is directed at those who are blithely swallowing and regurgitating obvious boiler-plate propaganda, while posturing as if they had wide knowledge and deep insight concerning a situation they make abundantly clear they know little about.

[sabrina 1]

35. I prefer to know the facts. Sources can be checked, and sometimes even sources we don't like

turn out to be true once checked.

I am not interested much in personalities considering the huge issues facing this country and the world. Only in the facts. It is a distraction from the facts to ignore them while pointing 'over there'.

The topic was not 'sources'. Easy to ignore those you don't trust and go to the third one, then check elsewhere. Assuming one is interested in the topic itself.

[The Magistrate]

38. The Topic, Ma'am, is The Judgement Of A Commentator

That, it has been made evident, is exceptionally poor, and this is compounded by an obvious lack of serious intent, and judging by other comments nearby of basic background knowledge. There is no reason to to believe anything but provocation for the Lulz is going on....

[TexasTowelie]

41. The jury results for this comment:

On Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:06 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

The Topic, Ma'am, is The Judgement Of A Commentator
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4733246

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No comments added by alerter

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:19 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The Magistrate made an accurate assessment of the situation as propaganda. The alerter also failed to provide a reason to make the alert so other than to conclude that it was a personal attack, the comment should remain.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A ridiculous alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You didn't make a case for your alert so you lose.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[The Magistrate]

44. Thank You, Sir

I appreciate the information.

[TexasTowelie]

47. You're welcome. nt

[sabrina 1]

51. Well, for me it is about the facts and as a grown woman I am able to sort out what is

credible and what is not. I remember during the Bush years when I spent far too much time fighting for Dems against morons on the Right, this was one of their 'weapons' against Dems, someone would post a link to prove a point, and it was invariably met with attacks on the source. Had they been rational, all they had to do was ask 'do you have a more reliable source, that one is not very trustworthy'. But of course they had no interest in the topic, other than to stop discussion of Bush's lies etc.

I learned from that to remain totally focused on the issue, not to allow their diversionary tactics to cause me to forget the original issue.

Btw, I did not alert on your comment to me. I rarely alert actually, preferring to discuss issues rather than silence people.

[Cha]

33. His shipment of Fail has been Delivered..

[treestar]

61. lol!

Cha

[treestar]

59. lol

love that image!

[SidDithers]

21. OMFG...

prisonplanet.



Sid

[another_liberal]

25. Thanks for stopping by, sid.

Always great to hear from you.

[SidDithers]

28. RT and prisonplanet in the same thread...

you only need DailyCaller to hit the trifecta.

Sid

[The Magistrate]

29. Give Him Time, Sir

The way he keeps plugging away at it, sooner or later he must hit the winner....

[another_liberal]

32. When one has nothing to say, sid, . . .

It really is best to say nothing.

[Cha]

34. He could have used this one..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024700856

[sabrina 1]

68. What's the 'Daily Caller'?

How come you are so familiar with all these sites that most DUers are unaware of?

[SidDithers]

69. Don't act like you don't know, sabrina...

It's Tucker Carlson's website. You've been there. You said they had a "great comment section"



http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4436136



Sid

[sabrina 1]

72. Lol, someone posts a link to a site I am unfamiliar with, I comment on it,

never been there since, and you think you have a 'gotcha'.

Try harder, Sid.

You appear to be more than familiar with every site that most Democrats here would not think of frequenting. How come?

So how much time do you have to spend on a site to know whether it is credible or not?

If I were you I would spend more time on Credible sites because after a while if you get mired in these right wing sites they can begin to adversely affect your viewpoint.

Oh, and we don't need you to inform US of the rules of this site. Did you know that most DUers have excellent reading and comprehension skills?

[sabrina 1]

73. Btw, that was a great comment of mine you spent so time digging up. I had

completely forgotten it. Thanks for reposting, it was a perfect example of people desperately trying to avoid talking about the subject, by using the old tactic of 'look over there'.

Chomsky, for some reason he gets a whole lot of people very upset, mostly on the Right.

Without you, I would never remember all my excellent comments, so like I said, keep up the good work Sid. Lol!

[sabrina 1]

36. OMFG ...

THE GUARDIAN among others!!!

[SidDithers]

37. But sabrina, I thought you cared about sources...

Remember all those times you falsely accused me of using the Washington Times as a source?

Now, here you are trying to make excuses for a poster for linking to prisonplanet.



Sid

[sabrina 1]

48. No, YOU were so concerned about sources I thought you yourself would be more careful.

When someone seems so concerned about other people's reading material naturally people are going to wonder if they are as careful about their own.

As far as I am concerned, DUers are pretty smart and I don't need to worry, the way you do, about what they are reading. I am certain they can sort out the facts from propaganda.

[SidDithers]

52. I'm very, very careful about the sources I use, sabrina...

for instance, I would never link to an anti-Semitic hate site like veteranstoday, unless it was to show that it was an anti-Semitic hate site.

And I've never linked to prisonplanet to support an argument of mine, unless it was to demonstrate the batshit insane stuff that Alex Jones and his ilk put on their sites.

For weeks last year, you attacked me, insinuating and then accusing me of using the Washington Times as a source. Of course, you never produced any evidence to support your accusations ('cause we both know there is none)

March: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2590511
April: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2674605
June: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2959321
and http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2962704

You were so concerned about my fictitious use of Moonie rag Washington Times, but you're excusing the use of far nuttier prisonplanet.

Strange.

Sid

[sabrina 1]

53. Here, let me explain something to you. I don't care what you or anyone reads or doesn't read.

In this democracy of ours we do not have censorship, well most of the time, there was a period, a tragic period where it did happen, for a while.

What that means is that Americans, and thank the gods for that, can and do read whatever they wish to read. The Bush gang DID try once again, to censor the reading material of Americans, spying on their choices of library books etc.

I know that there are some people in the world who view Americans as pretty 'dumb'. I can assure you that is a false impression.

You read what you want, and we here will continue to read what we want. I can assure you that unless you try to censor me I will never point out why you are not in a position to do so.

Iow, you cannot censor the reading material of the American public, they will fight it like hel,l they resent it, they abhor it and have fought and won against it.

No matter how bad a book may be, there are few things more evil and more likely to promote interest in it, than cenorship. I am very suspicious due to how fragile democracy is, of people who engage in efforts to censor other people's reading material. And I am far more likely to READ what is being censored, than I might be otherwise. Know why? Because when someone is trying to hide something, it is a natural reaction to want to know what it is. So, aside from anything else, you have probably caused more people to read Prison Planet, eg, people who never heard of it, by drawing so much attention to it.

[SidDithers]

54. At this site, we do have censorship, sabrina...

it's right there in the Terms of Service. Not all sources are welcome at DU.

This is a partisan, Democratic website. Linking to anti-Semitic hate sites, or to far-right conspiracist sites like prisonplanet should always be criticized.

You can ramble on all you want about censorship in a democracy, or not censoring the reading material of the American public, but that's completely irrelevant. DU is neither of those things.

Sid

[sabrina 1]

55. 'You can ramble on all you want about censorship in a democracy'!

Wow!! Quaint old document?

You need have no fear, I will, ramble, stand up against, read and watch exactly what IS being censored, whatever it takes to make sure that in this Democracy we never see the evil of censorship even gain a footing.

Sorry you disagree but thankfully a vast majority of Americans do not. And that is something to be very grateful for.

'We have given you a democracy, ma'am, if you can hold on to it'

Benjamin Franklin in response to a woman asking what they had been doing regarding the US Constitution.

Just fyi, every elected official and all of our military personnel swear an oath to 'defend and protect the US Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic'.

Not the US, not Elected Officials. The US Constitution which includes the 1st Amendment. Look it up sometime, if you haven't already. You will find, regardless of political affiliation, across the board, most Americans take their Constitutional rights very seriously.

Iow, all efforts to censor people's reading material here are futile. Americans in general are especially offended by any effort to censor them.

As for private businesses, they can do as they please, that is also a right in this country, but if you think that has ever stopped anyone from accessing whatever reading material they want, you could not be more wrong.

Ever read Fahrenheit 451? It's an interesting book!

[SidDithers]

56. Irrelevant...

We're talking about what's appropriate at DU, sabrina.

Try to stay on topic.

Sid

[sabrina 1]

57. Keep up the good work, Sid!

Always alert us to what we should not be reading.

We will make sure to check it out just to see if you are correct.

You have introduced me/us to more sites and sources than I ever knew existed.

It must be tough for you, though, reading all that stuff yourself, purely out of concern for us.

[SidDithers]

58. sabrina. Seriously, read whatever the fuck you want...

Nobody is telling you what you can and can't read, only what the Terms of Service say you can post to DU.

If you post links to anti-Semitic hate sites like veteranstoday, or far-right conspiracist sites prisonplanet, be prepared for criticism.

Sid

[treestar]

65. Putting your head on the block of the First Amendment

and all sacred things does not get you out of accusing Sid falsely on a source and then later being OK with someone using a crazy source like prison planet. Yes Alex Jones has freedom of speech and all that and he's not being persecuted, but that doesn't mean we are going to take him or anyone linking to him seriously. You're trying to have it both ways here. You can call people out for their use of sources even falsely, but then if some loon says something you might like, nobody can call him out on that.

[1000words]

10. I read that as "uninformed," at first.

Oddly, it still made sense.

[another_liberal]

12. You must write for Jon Stewart!

Good God, what a wit!

[Bad Thoughts]

39. Local news report

http://9-channel.com/lyudey-u-maskah-i-z-palitsyami-u-dnipropetrovskiy-oblasti-budut-dostavlyati-do-viddilen-militsiyi-svyatoslav-oliynik-00063465.html

Can't tell what it means, but I doubt things transpired the way RT describes.

[TexasTowelie]

42. I have a friend that has a doctorate in Ukrainian.

I'll have to send it to him for translation.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

64. A very rough translation via Google:

.
Address of the RSA is associated with increased measures to protect public order, according to the statement of Deputy governor of Dnipropetrovsk Svyatoslav Oleynik press office of Governor.



People in masks and sticks in the Dnipropetrovsk region will be delivered to police stations - Svyatoslav Oleynik (comment)



March 19, 2014 14:18


Dnipropetrovsk Regional State Administration inform all citizens about the inadmissibility of the use of masks, closing the face, as well as items that are tailored for bodily injury



Oleinik stresses that the appearance on the streets of cities and districts of the region "people with a closed face and objects that are adapted to bodily injury, including the transportation of such items by road, law enforcement agencies will be perceived as preparation for public disorder" - referred to the message OSA.



"These citizens will necessarily be delivered to the nearest police station to establish their identity and check for involvement in violence and criminal behavior," - said Svyatoslav Oleynik.

Reported that the State Administration found understanding of this position by the representatives of all political parties spectra. In particular, by right-wing forces banning the wearing of masks and sticks supported by the National Headquarters of protection, which includes all the political and social associations associated with an area. From the Left forces supported this initiative by representatives of the Communist Party and the Union of Soviet officers.


"Dnipropetrovsk Regional State Administration fully ensure the peaceful expression of people gathering at the rally. However, our task - to protect the residents of Dnipropetrovsk on provocation, to ensure order and stability in the region. We therefore call on all political forces and citizens - Express your opinion in a civilized manner and not succumb to provocations. Otherwise - we'll be tough to nip all aggression "- said Svyatoslav Oleynik.

[Bad Thoughts]

66. Goodness! I posted the wrong link

That article is a propos, but this is the original story:

http://9-channel.com/militsiya-ne-pidtverdila-shho-zatrimani-u-dnipropetrovsku-provokatori-ohorontsi-nardepa-tsarova-video-00063203.html

[Tommy_Carcetti]

67. Again, very rough Google translation:

Police did not confirm that detained in Dnepropetrovsk provocateurs - guards MP Tsarev (VIDEO)









March 17 , 2014 18:15


March 16 Dnepropetrovsk jointly with representatives of the police "the right sector" Self Defense and detained a group of armed youths .

In the prestigious car during a search found several guns , knives , bats army helmets , passports of citizens of the Russian Federation , and more merchandise aimed at the implementation of provocations in the region. According to activists , one of the militants called himself the head of Health National Deputy of Ukraine from the Party of Regions - Oleg Tsarev . And the police have not confirmed this information .

For the first time a group of young men in camouflage wearing masks has appeared at the Opera House. There's a Sunday afternoon with the participation of over trohsot people held a pro-Russian rally. On its completion activists "right sector" noticed a suspicious car "Toyota -RAV4":


"We uvydely car without the Phone in kotoruyu hruzylys bytы and there uvydely Weapons ."

Hold suspicious youths managed immediately. Harassment silver foreign cars lasted several hours.


" Flagrant violation of traffic rules , still uhodyv , led to the emergence of two accidents, which affected at least four cars ," - says Denis Gordeev , a representative of "the right sector" in Dnipropetrovsk.

Block "Toyota " and catch her ​​travel , managed by the private sector in the street works. Zuhvaltsi behaved aggressively and later called themselves the protection of people's deputy of the Party of Regions.


«They snachala cried , that ones Citizens of Russia , sweat , when one has already started to appear odevat handcuffs, the second began shouting something on pomoschnyk Tsar and something is nothing emu will not be " - says Andrew, a community activist .

In addition to a large number of wooden , rubber batons and pro symbolism of fugitives seized the following:


"Two firearms - a rifle , plenty of ammunition for them, at least a hundred. About 30 green kolooru iron helmets , portable radio , and a certain number of sets of forms Camouflage "- says Denis Gordeev , a representative of " the right sector " in Dnipropetrovsk.


"Machine hotovylas on provokatsyyu , that is zamechena machine has been in general - and then made áûëî âñ , ODO not áûë Dnieper Donetsk and Kharkov vtorыm " - said Gennady Voytov , public activist.


Babushkynskoho provocateur taken to the local police precinct. There, representatives defense of the city noticed a group of so-called " titushok ." Latest probably wanted to take prisoners. Instead, some of them armed with knives , also detained and handed over to the hands of the police. Activists believe: the number of people who had to perform the mess up to several dozen.


"These events attended by at least 4 cars. But then over time , some weapons were the people who were in cars zkynuta " , - says Denis Gordeev , representative of " the right sector " in Dnipropetrovsk.

This weapon and unlawful acts of other members are looking for. Currently, the police confirmed the detention of five persons toh . Information activists and law enforcement self defense in respect of these young men is significantly different .


«They javljajutsja citizens of Ukraine . Russo pasportov they do not. Oh Tom , that I dolzhen 's svyazыvat with Tsarёvыm I òàêîé info not raspolahayu ", - says Vitali Hluhoverya , head of the Dnipropetrovsk MU police.

Upon preparation for riots opened criminal proceedings. The suspects are in police temporary detention.


" Sanktsyya on dannoy article - deprivations of liberty on dates, from 5 to 8 years. This is in volume case, the If We prove , that ones эtu Under Article podpadayut ", - says Vitali Hluhoverya .

[CreekDog]

70. you make Russia proud...

another_liberal (4,988 posts)
58. I do realize LGBT people face discrimination . . .

...Russian authorities take their orders from the Kremlin, that means President Putin. I have yet to see anything from him suggesting that gay-bashing has become official policy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=561347

[another_liberal]

75. I wrote that nine months ago, you might have noted. A good deal more is known now.

I would not be able to or willing to make such a statement now.

What is your point anyway in extracting this post from the context of last August?

Are you accusing me of something?