Do you see a pattern here?

[Playinghardball]

[polichick]

1. Liberals are on the right side of history, the right side of sanity...

the right side of humanity - which is why is makes no sense for Dems to adopt RepubliCon policies.

[MADem]

2. Yes, but there's a new twist to the "pattern."

The Conservatives who object to the ACA, many of them, are MASQUERADING as "liberals."

They're attacking FROM THE LEFT and calling everyone who doesn't "Waaaaah--SUPPORT SINGLE PAYER" (as if anyone "objects" to that) an Obamabot, an "enabler" or an "apologist."

They should be ashamed of themselves. And kicked roundly OUT of the discussion, too!

[A Simple Game]

8. Not all of the "liberals" are masquerading conservatives.

I'm a liberal that was against the ACA before it was enacted and am now for it, but advocate for something better.

Is it too soon to want single payer? You and the other conservatives on DU please let us liberals know when it is time to start advocating for something better. Or do you think the ACA is just fine the way it is and the rest of us should just sit down, forget about single payer, and shut up?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. no bill of any magnitude has ever begun as a perfected product.

No ANYTHING begins as a finished product.

It's laughable to claim that ideals must not be realized until they are a perfect, discrete entity, and that anything begun imperfectly should be not only trashed, but denigrated for having been started in the first place.

It's ridiculous to claim that success in passing the ACA implies that future improvements are therefore over.

Here's to better minds that won't be deterred by such cynical bullshit.

[MADem]

11. Why are you calling me a conservative? That's rude, hurtful, disruptive and false.

I would urge you to retract that comment, unless you want to be shown to be a disruptor.

No one is saying "Forget about single payer and shut up."

You might at least follow the conversation, READ what is written (such a concept), and stop eagerly name-calling and strawman-building.

What you are doing is pot stirring.

Obvious and ugly.

[The_Commonist]

13. I really do think you've gone 'round the bend here.

Usually you're one of the good guys, but you seem to have completely lost your mind today.
You call a whole group of people names, and then get offended when you get called the same name?

Please... just stop.

[MADem]

19. Nice--now you're making "mental illness" jokes. "Round the bend?" Really?

And pray tell what "whole group of people" I've called names?

Where have I made a wholesale accusation? Go back, READ, and tell me. GO ON, now.

I'll wait.

You need to retract your nasty comments too, while you're at it.

[The_Commonist]

21. Mental illness jokes?

Uh...no. No joking going on there at all. You've lost your mind today.

>>>The Conservatives who object to the ACA, many of them, are MASQUERADING as "liberals."

They're attacking FROM THE LEFT and calling everyone who doesn't "Waaaaah--SUPPORT SINGLE PAYER"
(as if anyone "objects" to that) an Obamabot, an "enabler" or an "apologist." <<<

That sounds like a pretty wholesale accusation to me.
And for the record, I have been attacking the ACA from the left, I've never said Waaaaah, I've never called anyone an Obamabot, and I'm not going to retract jack shit.

So again, please... just stop. You're better than this.

[MADem]

22. So you're saying NONE of the conservatives who object to the ACA are masquerading as liberals, then?

I said "many of them"--or are you objecting to my "insult" of conservatives?

Not sure what you're on about, here.

I also think you don't understand the meaning of the word "wholesale."

And that latest "lost your mind" comment is yet another "You're crazy" accusation. That kind of stuff is poor substitute for discussion.

Apparently you can be told more than once and still not get it.

[The_Commonist]

23. Yawn...

Quit being such a MAD Dem.
This is getting us nowhere...

Cheers!

[MADem]

25. Why are you "yawn"-ing? It's a simple question--answer it.

I think you have realized you misspoke, and you're trying to fluff that off by being a bit rude and dismissive to me.

[sabrina 1]

29. Jury results on this post:

ATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I really do think you've gone 'round the bend here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4730405

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Poster uses the term "round the bend" and in post 21 says "you've lost your mind today." These are "mental illness jokes" and they are inappropriate on a liberal msg board. Poster was given an opportunity to retract and instead doubled down.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:20 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why waste our time? MADem was the one being rude, as usual.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Amazing anyone would even alert on that post. I was one of the 'no explanation' votes. Not sure which one.

[MADem]

34. How fascinating! I guess calling people mentally ill is "cool" here on DU, now!

I'll keep that in mind.

[A Simple Game]

15. Yes it is undisciplined to hurl about accusations of being conservative.

One example I could give is to say anyone supporting single payer is or could be a conservative.

See how that works? Goose--Gander

Retract your statement and I will consider retracting mine. Oh, but wait, I haven't seen you deny that you are a conservative yet, nor apologize to all the conservatives on DU for implying that it is an insult to be called a conservative.

Now as to why I called you a conservative.

From Dictionary.com: conservative: disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

One of us in this conversation wants to preserve the ACA and only one of us is promoting converting it to single payer, now which of those would be considered a conservative? And why would anyone consider someone wanting to change the ACA for the better to be a conservative?

On second thought I will not retract my statement, I was right!

[MADem]

17. Where did I say that? Again--you need to retract your intemperate remarks.

You are being rude, hurtful and disruptive.

One of us in the conversation can, apparently, READ, and the other cannot.

I believe that the road to single payer is through ACA.

AFTER you apologize to me--and I urge you to do so and retract your conservative accusations, you can explain just HOW "we" are going to "convert it to single payer."

Come on--I want to see your blueprint for making that happen with a GOP House. Get busy--because I INSIST that you provide that template, so long as you are tossing nasty insults my way.

[A Simple Game]

30. Most of your post is not worthy of a reply,

as it appears you don't accept your actions as being conservative in nature.

As for how "we" are going to "convert it to single payer", how about we sit on our asses and call those that would like to change the ACA for the better derogatory names? Think that would get the job done?

[MADem]

33. I support the ACA as a step on the path to single payer. If that makes me "conservative" then

what-ever.

You still haven't told me how you are going to persuade a GOP House to approve single payer. And while you come up with that, tell me what we should do in the meanwhile--toss ACA out, because it's not "perfect?" Would that work for you?

Making "sit-on-your-ass" comments is non-responsive. I'm still waiting for you to respond substantively instead of playing snark games that include false accusations.

[A Simple Game]

35. Thank you for finally agreeing.

As for "I support the ACA as a step on the path to single payer. If that makes me "conservative" then what-ever.", I'm not the one that started that meme, am I?

Maybe persuading the GOP House won't be as hard as you think.
From http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/krauthammer-obamacare-single-payer-wouldve?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=tumblr
Speaking on Fox and Friends Monday morning, Krauthammer said "a single payer system would at least have been logical and simple."

Oh, My, God, that's where you got the idea that liberals promoting single payer were actually conservatives!!!

[MADem]

36. WTF? "Finally agreeing?" This has always been my position. Use the search feature if you doubt me.

I think you have reading comprehension issues. I suggest you start with the OP --read it--and then continue on. This entire thread is about "conservative v. liberal" -- a fact you seem to have ... I dunno know...missed or something.

I don't watch Fox, but interesting that you had that link so close to hand.

[A Simple Game]

40. I know it's your position you have stated it in multiple posts on this thread.

You said: The Conservatives who object to the ACA, many of them, are MASQUERADING as "liberals." Wherein you accuse people who promote single payer of being conservatives.
You then said: I support the ACA as a step on the path to single payer. If that makes me "conservative" then what-ever. In this statement you admit to meeting your criteria for being a conservative.

Now my link, copied here: http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/krauthammer-obamacare-single-payer-wouldve?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=tumblr has crooksandliars.com right in the hyperlink, when you open the link it takes you to the crooksandliars web page where they show a clip from a Fox show, that is after all where the statement was made, where do you come up with my having links to Fox handy? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Maybe the local college has an online course that could help you with that.

I assume by "This has always been my position" you are referring to supporting single payer? By your own accusations and admissions how and why should I believe you? You are just as likely, by your own accusations, to be a conservative bent on disruption.

Have a good day, our conversation is done.

[MADem]

43. You're damn right our conversation is done--you haven't made a lick of sense in this post, either.

I guess the phrase "many of them" is too difficult to process, is that it? "Many" is not "all," but "many" come here to sow discontent and uncertainty.

You truly don't understand that many wingnuts come here, pretend to be lefties, and troll from the left? They affect leftist ideals, more left than even the most ardent uber-liberal Democrat, and they accuse Dems of being "insufficiently progressive" because they don't agree with a perspective that benefits the right wing? Like OBJECTING to the ACA, for example?

This is news to you? You know nothing of wingnuts spreading FUD for fun?

Well, aren't you naive.

You need to get out more--you're not as sophisticated as you might think you are.

[Enthusiast]

16. Almost zero liberals are masquerading conservatives. It's a bullshit claim.

I was for the ACA all the way. And my posts are recorded to prove it.

But single payer should be the immediate goal of all liberals and reasonable Democrats. It should never stop being our goal. The profit seeking part of health care is what is wrong with it.

[A Simple Game]

31. I admit I was against the ACA at first, I accept it now and even benefit from it, but

I will not accept it as the final or best solution, that would be single payer. No liberal or Democrat should be completely happy with the present ACA.

[sabrina 1]

28. Me too and am getting sick and tired of those who put politics before PEOPLE.

I opposed Mandates as did the President, one of the reasons I supported him. And I was furious and remain furious that the PO was not even allowed a hearing once the election was over.

Some people do not like facts so they try to divert from the facts as much as possible.

I haven't changed, nor have most Democrats who care more about people than private corporations.

[A Simple Game]

32. While the ACA is better, how people can be happy with the present insurance system and not want

a better and cheaper system is beyond my thinking ability. Why does everything require the ability for someone to insert themselves into the middle and in doing so be enriched for actually making the system worse?

Just for a starter single payer would give doctors the chance to replace one of their office staff from someone that primarily handles insurance forms to a nurse and allow them to give better service to their patients.

[Doctor_J]

37. By all means. Anyone who thinks we should all have health care should be "kicked roundly out"!!!11!

I wonder why we get our asses kicked at the polls.

[Cleita]

3. Unfortunately, there are few liberals of prominence today and

more and more they are being marginalized like the liberals who got gerrymandered out of their districts in the last redistricting. We need an amendment addressing election abuses like gerrymandering, making it and other abuses illegal.

[Rex]

4. It is so strange, gerrymandering is illegal. Why doesn't someone enforce the law?

Is it because it has gone too far and is out of control?

[world wide wally]

6. Because the people who make the laws (state legislators) are in office because of gerrymandering

Go figure

[tclambert]

41. Dick Cheney and George Bush weren't turned over to the Hague tribunal for war crimes, either.

Very few Wall Street Bankers have gone to jail. Their companies have not been hauled into court and forcibly disbanded.

Enforcing the law has become optional.

Prosecuting gerrymandering would instantly get called "political retribution" and start a political backlash against it. Personally, I would like to see the whole process computerized. Make the rule that political districts in a state must have equal populations inside the smallest borders possible, and let computers calculate how to draw them up. We might come up with hexagonal districts in some areas.

[Iliyah]

5. K & R

[AtheistCrusader]

7. This is the best version of this list I have seen.

I have seen people try to define this as Republicans/Democrats, but the two groups have actually flopped positions on some of these issues, as the liberal/conservative demographics of the parties changed.

But the liberal/conservative angle is dead accurate, and highly useful contrast.

[WillyT]

9. K & R !!!

[ErikJ]

12. ACA helped 15 million so far

[The_Commonist]

14. I don't think there were "Conservatives" and "Liberals"

...during the Revolutionary or Civil wars.
But the point is well taken.

[Enthusiast]

18. Okay. Call them the muddle headed (conservatives) and the free thinkers (Liberals).

The point is the conservatives wanted to preserve the status quo where they enjoyed special status and privileges. Just like today.

[The_Commonist]

20. Actually, I really like that!

The muddle headed and the free thinkers.

[Enthusiast]

24. Thank you. An Enthusiast original! I'm not very creative so this is quite an event.

[MADem]

26. Anyone who wanted to stick with a frigging King instead of a Democracy was a conservative-no doubt.

Of course there were conservatives during the revolutionary war. They were called Tories.

[Enthusiast]

27. Correct.

[Kablooie]

38. In the musical 1776 there is a whole song sung by the conservative faction.

"To the right, ever to the right
Never to the left, forever to the right
We have gold, a market that will hold
Tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold."

[Cha]

39. The Big Difference Between Democrats and Republicons..

Mahalo Play

[Zambero]

42. Add family medical leave to the list

Conservatives opposed it, referred to it as "anti-family" and "social engineering", and lost.