So if I am a Jewish employer can I require that all of my male employees

[undeterred]

get circumcised next weekend? Not that I would, I just want to know if I could.

[Skidmore]

1. That would be a great subject for a letter to an editor somewhere.

[undeterred]

2. I'd be sure that the company chooses a plan that covers it, of course.

[LanternWaste]

3. Or a Christian employer demand all employees not to watch football on Sunday

Or a Christian/Jewish employer demand all employees not to watch football on Sunday (skin of unclean animal and all that).

(Not that I'd mind too much as I stopped watching football once Vick was let back into the league...)

[awoke_in_2003]

32. Footballs aren't made of pigskin anymore. nt

[Bandit]

55. What about working on the Sabbath?

God said anyone that worked on the Sabbath (even gathering wood for a fire) should be put to death.

[OriginalGeek]

64. It ain't work to watch the Cowboys play on Sunday

Although lately it has been downright tiresome.


Growing up in Dallas the only thing we loved more than potluck supper in the church basement was the Cowboys - our pastor often planned earlier services if the Cowboys had an early game so we'd be out in time to watch it.

[FarCenter]

4. Hmmm. Does employer health insurance have to pay for circumcision?

[undeterred]

8. Yeah

These are adults, so...

[FarCenter]

9. I was really thinking about circumcision of newborns by pediatricians

I'd think that if you have a mohel do the job, you have to pay for it yourself?

[COLGATE4]

28. Unless you get one who

works for the tips.

[dlwickham]

35. I think you win a DUzy for that comment

[COLGATE4]

39. Thank you. Thank you. I believe it's

as old as vaudeville, although I don't have a specific source for it. Probably from one of the great Jewish comedians of yore.

[KaryninMiami]

40. OY (nt)

[COLGATE4]

41. OY (x 2)!!!

[calimary]

57. OY (x3)!!! ROFL!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

5. Are you a restaurant owner?

I'm just clearing the deck for the inevitable onslaught of "tip" jokes.

[undeterred]

7. Deli

Whatever you like.

[uppityperson]

33. I just watched your sig line through for the first time, had noticed before but not watched.

VERY neat

[Warren DeMontague]

37. You mean the cosmos evolution gif?

Yeah, its a classic. So glad NDGT ran it again- it was one of the best parts of the original series, too.

[Voice for Peace]

42. thanks to uppity for drawing my attention to your evolution gif, that is superb

[Warren DeMontague]

45. It's only "mine" in that I saw it trending on imgur, and linked it.

Certainly wouldn't want to take credit for it. Whoever did that animation back in 1979 or whatever, did a great job.

Feel free to take!

[Voice for Peace]

49. ok I will try to steal it.

have to go get some scissors and tape.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Heh. Right click and save.

and here's the link location:

http://i.imgur.com/ToaXKCM.gi


just stick an "f" on the end of the "gi" and you're good to go.

[Diclotican]

67. Warren DeMontague

Warren DeMontague

I think it was also used in the intro to Il était une fois l'homme A french animations serie - who basically was about humankind from the earlist of times - to the present (1978). It was one of my first introductions to the world of history by the way - even though the serie is somewhat dated by now - it was mutch more nice back in the days when I was a child - than today when it have seen it again (I found it in a DVD box, and just had to get it)..

Diclotican

[undeterred]

6. Oh, btw, I'm orthodox

So I get to choose their sexual preference too.

And no premarital sex. They should check with me for acceptable contraception.

[frazzled]

12. You could refuse to allow women to work when they are menstruating

If you're really that Orthodox.

[freshwest]

17. So long as it's paid leave. A three week work month. I'll vote for that one! n/t

[frazzled]

18. Nah: no work, no pay (employer's decision)

That's the ticket here, isn't it?

[freshwest]

22. Hell no! I'd be there with bells on and full you-know-what then! Take that, boss!

You should have seen my male supervisor cower under his desk back in the day. I only granted the privilege of my presence for prevailing wage., LOL.

[undeterred]

21. There could be a Cramps and Menstruation Leave Act

which gives female employees 5 paid days off a month.

[freshwest]

25. Finally get equal pay through the law of unintended consequences. Those who don't get 'em, fake it!

That's the only thing the GOP has ever seen in the sexual department anyway.

Like Elaine in Seinfeld: 'Fake, fake... fake, fake, fake!'

Acting is one of life's survival skills. Just look at the tears of Boehner and Beck:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

62. I certainly wish we had menstrual leave.

Since I had horrendous disabling cramps my entire reproductive life, 13 times a year.
It's not just about cramps, it's also about feeling like a wet dishrag as well, barely able to move.

There are countries in Asia that I have read have one day per month for menstrual leave.

[Voice for Peace]

44. or refuse to hire them at all, if they have children,

believing women should stay at home with the kids.

[Gothmog]

10. According to Roberts and Scalia, yes

[joeybee12]

11. Well, no, because when idiots yell religious liberty and freedom...

they only mean Christians...all other relgions are fake, dontcha know???

[jwirr]

13. Great point.

[spanone]

14. or withhold taxes that go to the war machine

[Politicalboi]

16. I think that one would do it

9-0

[LakeVermilion]

24. Good point,

I have wondered about this, when people shout that they don't want their tax monies funding abortion/women's health. I have items that the government funds that I don't agree with also. Why are their concerns addressed, but not mine?

[white_wolf]

79. I can't remember the specifics, but there was a court case dealing with this issue.

If I remember correctly the Supreme Court essentially said that they would not hear tax-related challenges because it would clog up the entire judicial system. The exception is that if you can find where the government is using your tax dollars in direct violation of a specific clause in the Constitution. Keep in mind this is all off memory of an undergrad Constitution Law class I took a couple of years ago so I may be off on the details.

[Voice for Peace]

48. I can get behind that one.

wouldn't they change their minds quickly.

Or back to peyote and other nature-given hallucinogens.

Or human sacrifice, for crying out loud. Neoconservatives
and pundits, for they offend the spirit and the lord my
dog doth declare them liars full of evil.

[customerserviceguy]

15. It's not the same thing, and you know it

Since you brought up being Jewish, I have a number of Jewish friends who don't keep kosher, but they'd probably have a problem with a law that required their rabbi to buy the ingredients for and cook them up a bacon double cheeseburger.

[freshwest]

19. I object to bacon and cheese on burgers myself. It's a Biblical thing, ya know. n/t

[undeterred]

20. Whats interesting is that its only fundamentalist Christians who seem to want to impose

their morals on everyone else.

My example is preposterous. Jews do not impose their religious beliefs on other people.

[customerserviceguy]

23. In this instance

there is no compulsion on the part of any employee to refrain from the use of any contraceptive, including the ones that they're willing to pay for that they do not consider abortifacients.

My guess is that Hobby Lobby and Conestoga convinced Anthony Kennedy, so we know what's going to happen in June if I'm right.

[LeftyMom]

70. The employee already paid for their health care with their labor.

Further, entertaining debunked non-science in order to limit the health care options of employees is odious. There's no trade off because the negative effect is imaginary.

[customerserviceguy]

83. Do you know of scientific proof

of the four questioned contraceptive methods NOT being abortifacients? I thought the science was still in question about how they work.

[LeftyMom]

87. Yes. This hasn't really been up for debate among sane people. Go google.

[customerserviceguy]

90. So, you're saying

you have no such references, that the government's attorney would have theoretically Googled to present to the SCOTUS that Hobby Lobby and Conestoga were flat out wrong in their beliefs?

We do know that Plan B does work in exactly that way, by preventing implantation.

[PoliticAverse]

34. Of course some do. n/t

[Thor_MN]

38. Does their Rabbi own a fast food restaurant?

Your analogy isn't great either... Just saying.

[customerserviceguy]

84. If he did

would you think it would have bacon double cheeseburgers on the menu?

My point is, there are a lot of things that we ourselves do that we would not force another to do, or even subsidize. That's the argument made at the SCOTUS, and I think it swayed Kennedy.

[cui bono]

72. That's an incorrect analogy.

First: No one is asking priests to do anything hands on. This is about employers/corporations.

Second: No one is asking the employer - not priest - to make the contraceptives, much less unwrap the condoms for them.

What is in question is what they are allowing their employees. Not that they are being forced to actively participate in making something for them.

Religious exemption is not supposed to harm a third party. If it does you are imposing your religious beliefs on someone else and we're supposed to have freedom from religion.

[customerserviceguy]

86. Their employees

are ALLOWED to do anything they want to as regards contraception. It's the employer who doesn't want to pay for or otherwise facilitate it, if it goes against their religious beliefs.

You have to admit, the OP was way off base as to what an employer could possibly require under the slipperiest of slopes after a decision in favor of Hobby Lobby and Conestoga. Maybe my analogy is flawed, but that one was totally absurd.

I predict a narrow ruling in favor of the aforementioned parties. One of the things the SCOTUS takes into account is legislative intent, and they look to how a law was formed in determining that. When the President signed the executive order that nothing under the ACA was to be used to construe any sort of support for abortion, it could be argued that it included drugs and devices which have the possible effect of causing abortions. Just because some executive-appointed bureaucracy cooks up a list of "what must be covered" doesn't mean that the law (as intended) approves that list in its entirety.

[uriel1972]

26. Ouch, I'm good, but for others…OUCH…nt

[Small Accumulates]

27. No, of course not!

Because when the corrupt supremes rule in favor of Hobby Lobby and Conestoga it will be because this is actually about denying women the right to appropriate healthcare. No one is ever going to propose or accept anything that diminishes men's human rights. Silly!!

[Enthusiast]

29. It seems to me you could.

Depending on the supreme court.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. Maybe, but you can't prohibit the insurance you Have to provide,

from paying for it .

[OilemFirchen]

31. Perhaps a better analogy...

Refuse to pay for insurance which covers shellfish allergies.

[TBF]

36. I think that question goes to Justice Kennedy. nt

[jtuck004]

43. How about you require it of all their children too?

If you are gonna light a fire, might as well make it a big one

[Vashta Nerada]

46. With that aside, circumcision shouldn't be allowed.

Period.

It's barbaric and it's a practice that isn't needed.

[Swede Atlanta]

47. I don't believe the Court would ever find that the government can compel circumcision but....

depending on their holding the law could well be that you have every right to make your male employees drop their pants and show they have been circumcised. You can then give the hooded men a week to get it cut and if they don't comply you fire them. Why? Because god told you so.

Or unmarried female employees must personally demonstrate to you, the lecherous old business owner, that they are virgins. So you make them disrobe and you stick your finger or whatever in to confirm. If they aren't virgins they are fired because god told you so.

The list is endless...........This is the American version of the Taliban.......

[TeamPooka]

50. or a Christian Scientist boss would dictate no medical insurance for anyone?

[RKP5637]

52. Sure, no problem! In my company I will require all employees worship Satan, seems

that should be no problem. If not, I'll just fire them for insubordination! The church of Satan. It's a church, seems no problemo!

[Mnpaul]

53. Great argument

Another would be a Muslim business owner requiring women to cover their heads. The right would go beserk. This is a Christian version of Sharia law.

These "Christian" corporation owners want to have separation of personal liability through the corporate laws but want to bypass that separation to inject their personal "morality"/religion.

If the SC rules for Hobby Lobby it will open up a whole new can of worms. The Democrats should be all over this right now showing the public how troublesome this could get.

[Boom Sound 416]

54. You plan on paying for it?

[rhett o rick]

56. Employers shouldnt have anything to do with insurance. nm

[undeterred]

89. +100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[nietzschean]

58. Jehova's witnesses

I think a better example and one that should be brought up in court is the refusal of Jehova's witnesses to accept blood transfusions.

Should we violate their religious freedom too by forcing them to cover those procedures?

[CFLDem]

59. Well way ahead of you, buster!

Who's ahead of who now?

Haha hahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[moondust]

60. If Rastafarians require ganja breaks?

Put that in your pipe, Scalia.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. Man, these analogies get sillier and sillier.

No employee of Hobby Lobby was ever required to refrain from using contraception as a condition of employment. It never happened. If HL prevails in its case before the USSC then things will simply revert to status quo ante.

[blackspade]

69. Nope.

If hobby lobby wins there will be a precedent set giving corporations religious rights.
That is insane.

[badtoworse]

63. How would you check? Sounds like something out of Porky's

[libodem]

65. Yes

Smegma is no one's friend.

[seveneyes]

66. Or an Islamic employer that veils women and requires them to be escorted by family members

Yeah, religion and government should never be mixed.

[mucifer]

68. We don't look for converts. You have to realllly want to be Jewish to be one.

[George II]

71. Beinga mohel doesn't pay much, but at least you get to keep the tips!

[surrealAmerican]

73. I understand your point, but that's not a good example ...

... because Judaism doesn't work that way. What goyim do doesn't make any difference to Jews, and they don't want converts.

[Kablooie]

74. The law only applies if it messes with Obamacare.

That's the hidden part that they don't want you to know about.

[undeterred]

82. What does the Torah say about Obamacare?

Wait, what Law are we talking about?

[christx30]

75. You could say that

requiring a Muslim barber to cut the hair of a lesbian might fit in here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/121854946

What would you do in that case?

[Hippo_Tron]

76. A SLIGHTLY more adept analogy would be whether they could refuse to cover heart valve replacement...

Since the valve comes from a pig. However I say SLIGHTLY, because the vast vast majority of even orthodox Jews agree that there's exceptions to just about every rule in the Torah when it comes to saving a life.

[cantbeserious]

77. Ouch - What Barbarism

eom

[longship]

78. That could maybe set up an interesting job interview situation.

But, you have a pretty good point.

[icarusxat]

80. Why not the medical care that would be required for all Hobby Lobby employees...

and the Fundie Christian psuedo owners by their true owners, Fundamental Islamic oil producing countries...mandatory female circumcision for all of their women employees?

[HockeyMom]

81. Well, the Rabbi who offered me a job (his assistant)

said I could roast a pig in my backyard and invite the entire neighborhood as long as I didn't bring a sandwich to the synagogue and eat it there. I am not Jewish, turned down the job offer, but he was a cool, and very funny man.

Yes, that really happened.

[dilby]

85. Are all your employees Jewish?

Because that rule only applies to Jews and since even most secular Jews get circumcised you probably would not have too many people to circumcise.

[undeterred]

88. No, but I'd like to apply my religious beliefs to my company, like the Hobby Lobby does

My employees can become honorary jews. Religion in the home, religion in the workplace.