Sat Mar 29, 2014, 01:34 PM

DerekG (2,935 posts)

Presidents should be questioned and confronted, not idolized

Folks, they're not running women's shelters or abused animal havens. They're presidents.

And what sort of person is allowed to be president?

The sort who, at some point in their lives, decided that it'd be groovy to be top dog in what is currently the world's only empire. Sure, some are less hideous than others, but all of them possess the peculiar quality of being able to order people to be murdered, even entire cities and/or nations bombarded, before shuffling off to bed. As commander-in-chief, they wield the power of life and death. And they like it.

From my perspective, there's something a bit off-kilter about these individuals (recall that even "saintly" Jimmy Carter wasn't above throwing a bit of money to a right-wing Latin American outfit, or stirring up trouble in Afghanistan). On occasion, we might get a Lincoln or FDR, but even those titans had to be pushed into doing the right thing.

Let's not confuse the Caesars with the Christs. Certainly, let us not hesitate to give our emperors holy hell when the occasion calls for it. After all, how protective should we be towards those who control a nuclear arsenal?

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286 replies	Author	Time	Post
Presidents should be questioned and confronted, not idolized (Original post)	DerekG	Mar 2014	OP
There's a huge space between seeing a POTUS as a respectable figure who can be criticized >	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#1
Of course your "respect for the office" argument falls apart with a republican president	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#4
I didn't say "respect for the office". I intentionally said respect for a President of the USA who	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#9
So you always followed that criteria with Bush?	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#12
Nope, I admit to be hypocritical at times. That's pretty human isn't it?	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#14
Thanks for a good (honest) answer!	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#17
So you're saying that Obama = Bush? nt	jazzimov	Mar 2014	#21
Nice try lol	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#23
That's got to be the one of the weakest, most pathetic, and,	LWolf	Mar 2014	#116
Pathetic.	Katashi_itto	Mar 2014	#194
...	Phlem	Mar 2014	#248
Why should we care ...	1StrongBlackMan	Mar 2014	#79
That's an excellent question...	greatauntoftriplets	Mar 2014	#81
Folks keep asking and nobody keeps answering	Number23	Mar 2014	#99
I soooooo	ZombieHorde	Mar 2014	#158
Are you going to go all Odyssey on me??	Number23	Mar 2014	#181
Ha! nt	ZombieHorde	Mar 2014	#226
There is no objective reason to care about anything.	ZombieHorde	Mar 2014	#160
We shouldn't and I don't.	sheshe2	Mar 2014	#162
What fucking crap	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#166
I was referring to a hit and run poster.	sheshe2	Mar 2014	#168
Ah... sorry then n/t	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#170
Wait-- you're still insisting that "used car salesman" is a racist term? /nt	Marr	Mar 2014	#216
We should care about the level of political discourse, which apparently is the topic here. Or is it	sabrina 1	Mar 2014	#165
I'm talking about those here ...	1StrongBlackMan	Mar 2014	#211
who gives a shit about Bush , this is a Dem site	JI7	Mar 2014	#95
Maybe the millions of innocent victims he created many of whom are still trying to get	sabrina 1	Mar 2014	#247
Well, I've pretty much followed your advice when criticizing policies of not just this president but	sabrina 1	Mar 2014	#26
Generally, I respect you and your posts. Have a good weekend Sabrina!	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#32
Thank you KittyWampus, you too!	sabrina 1	Mar 2014	#36
It's nice to see some civility. It's too bad that everyone with policy disagreements could not get	totodeinhere	Mar 2014	#215
Plus un brazilion. n/t	me b zola	Mar 2014	#265
The fan club tend to lash out against the thoughtful critiques	Doctor_J	Mar 2014	#120
went to University?	POsphere	Mar 2014	#201
i have no "respect for the office."	tomp	Mar 2014	#196
Then you have given more weight to the negatives, which shows bias.	randome	Mar 2014	#197
it's not as simple as that.	tomp	Mar 2014	#198
Part of the problem is that Bush left such a rancid stench on the office that	totodeinhere	Mar 2014	#218
Your point is well made.	randome	Mar 2014	#228
I'm with you on that. And I fail to see how the phrase is any different from "respect the badge"...	Marr	Mar 2014	#219
Exactly	whatchamacallit	Mar 2014	#224
But they are salesmen	DerekG	Mar 2014	#10
They are executives. Marketing is done by subordinates. Can they do much to rally people	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#16
How can you respect an executive that carries the wrong message, shaped by his marketeers?	MrMickeysMom	Mar 2014	#87
That statement is could be a disortion , exaggeration and a lie, Derek.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#43
"salesman"? really? Now the Piece of shit used car salesman is reduced to "salesman"? I don't	Cha	Mar 2014	#44
Well, yes Cha - salesman	Scootaloo	Mar 2014	#59
No.. don't see this president that way. bush was the fucking decider and	Cha	Mar 2014	#63
Richard Neustadt argued that the power of	Ed Suspicious	Mar 2014	#69
Sorry Cha, that's just how it works	Scootaloo	Mar 2014	#85
I know how it works.. you really don't need to welcome me to politics.	Cha	Mar 2014	#90
You sure? Because it looks like you're taking offense at reality	Scootaloo	Mar 2014	#246
Are you as amazed as I am	Marr	Mar 2014	#221
Gee, when FDR referred to a "Day that will live in infamy," no one called him a "piece of shit used	MADem	Mar 2014	#179
Thank you for the history. n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#267
I would think he does	840high	Mar 2014	#145
Of course,	LWolf	Mar 2014	#117
He made two posts. The first one did call the President a 'piece of shit' and a 'used car salesman'.	randome	Mar 2014	#118
I probably shouldn't have assumed	LWolf	Mar 2014	#122
What, you can't follow every post in GD? Slacker!	randome	Mar 2014	#124
Randome is NOT being honest about that. (surprised?)	bvar22	Mar 2014	#242
The bias is yours, bvar22.	randome	Mar 2014	#245
I've driven POS Used Cars most of my life.	bvar22	Mar 2014	#249
So, in the term "Millionaire Used Car Salesman" the "Millionaire" bit refers to the CAR, not the	MADem	Mar 2014	#263
Criticism does no good unless you have an endgame in mind.	randome	Mar 2014	#2
No, no President deserves the benefit of the doubt. On the contrary, the People deserve the truth.	Scuba	Mar 2014	#25
Absolutely.	840high	Mar 2014	#146
When any elected official is pushing bad policies they do NOT deserve the 'benefit of the doubt'.	sabrina 1	Mar 2014	#30
I would show you the same benefit of a doubt, Sabrina.	randome	Mar 2014	#41
we give a president the "benefit of the doubt" when we elect him or her.	grasswire	Mar 2014	#98
Of course it's not immutable. But keep the bigger picture in view.	randome	Mar 2014	#104
what DO you do when your daughters deceive or dismay you? nt	grasswire	Mar 2014	#106
Make them aware that I know it.	randome	Mar 2014	#112
the Internet actually interferes with any significant protest.	grasswire	Mar 2014	#119
You're probably right about the Internet.	randome	Mar 2014	#123
Great reply! nt	snappyturtle	Mar 2014	#68
Do you think that opposing the TPP is tilting at windmills? Do you think we should just	rhett o rick	Mar 2014	#157
I have never called anyone out for posting about the TPP. Yes, I think it's a legitimate issue.	randome	Mar 2014	#193
accountability and broken promises DEMAND IT. n/t	reddread	Mar 2014	#241
No in-between? Wow.	JNelson6563	Mar 2014	#3
Could you give the order?	DerekG	Mar 2014	#6
I believe leadership at that level has to foster some semblance of Stoicism.	KittyWampus	Mar 2014	#11
That may be true, in times of genuine crisis	DerekG	Mar 2014	#18
Certain qualities of "leadership" correlate strongly with psychopathic traits.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#84
What I want to see is Presidential candidates injected with truth serum	snappyturtle	Mar 2014	#72
Or be forced to wear Google Glasses for the duration of their term.	randome	Mar 2014	#114
Ha! good idea! nt	snappyturtle	Mar 2014	#115
Probably not.	JNelson6563	Mar 2014	#19
For what it's worth, I don't think Obama is malignant like Bush	DerekG	Mar 2014	#27
Well stated, thanks	lumpy	Mar 2014	#46
Every person who SEEKS the office knows the awful power that comes with it...	cherokeeprogressive	Mar 2014	#39
Presidents shouldn't be DEMONIZED, either.	BlueCaliDem	Mar 2014	#5
Excellent post, Blue. Appreciated.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#48
+++''Nary a word against Republicans from these same posters...''	Whisp	Mar 2014	#56
Strange, that... n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#269
+1 Excellent post	OKNancy	Mar 2014	#60
Psst. Everybody on DU isn't a Democrat. It's not even required. nt	Kahuna	Mar 2014	#71
I know. But it is required to support Democrats - especially in an election year.	BlueCaliDem	Mar 2014	#135
Especially a President who's standing on the front lines between us and	Cha	Mar 2014	#74
Righteous post. n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#270
Exactly. People here hide their demonization as fair criticism. That's the problem.	berni_mccoy	Mar 2014	#75
And "fair criticism" isn't juvenile name calling!	greatauntoftriplets	Mar 2014	#82
Exactly. eom	BlueCaliDem	Mar 2014	#136
Exactly and there are some with nothing but criticism	treestar	Mar 2014	#230
Whoops	Doctor_J	Mar 2014	#121
Bullshit. Obama gets criticized every day by people using lies lovingly crafted by Republicans.	baldguy	Mar 2014	#132
Whoops again	Doctor_J	Mar 2014	#147
Again, I say BULLSHIT.	baldguy	Mar 2014	#190
+1	Jamaal510	Mar 2014	#163
So, you never demonized Bush?	rusty fender	Mar 2014	#176
Don't be silly.	BlueCaliDem	Mar 2014	#256
That sure is a high horse	rusty fender	Mar 2014	#266
Talk about a high horse. Yours is staggering.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2014	#281
I agree with you about Bush/Cheney	rusty fender	Apr 2014	#282
Then you misunderstood my post, and you don't understand the concept of	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2014	#283
LOLOLOL!	rusty fender	Apr 2014	#284
That's the reaction I had when I read the kumbaya part of your post.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2014	#285
We take ourselves too seriously, sometimes...	rusty fender	Apr 2014	#286
Did you demonize Bush at all?	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#233
Well said and thank you. More education, less emoting. n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#268
Goodluck with that, you just missed the liberal witchhunt.	Rex	Mar 2014	#7
There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton	Tierra_y_Libertad	Mar 2014	#8
Lord Acton was somewhat of an ass.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#52
So, you think that presidents should be sanctified when they take office?	Tierra_y_Libertad	Mar 2014	#53
His reputation	lumpy	Mar 2014	#61
Which has what to do with his comment?	Tierra_y_Libertad	Mar 2014	#62
Just an observation that some times an ass can say something a lot of humans can agree upon.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#64
Everyone welcomes constructive criticism	frazzled	Mar 2014	#13
+1	treestar	Mar 2014	#54
+1	one_voice	Mar 2014	#97
Perfect post. It has always tickled me to no end that the ones throwing "lockstepper" and	Number23	Mar 2014	#100
+1 nt	MADem	Mar 2014	#264
So you're saying all presidents are psychopaths.	Avalux	Mar 2014	#15
They possess qualities common to psychopaths, though not necessarily as acute	DerekG	Mar 2014	#24
And the current Prez doesn't exhibit any of those qualities.	JaneyVee	Mar 2014	#29
I find the current President infinitely more admirable than his most unfair critics here	BeyondGeography	Mar 2014	#31
Most people possess & exhibit a propensity for lying, and a bolstered sense of self and, certainly,	lumpy	Mar 2014	#57
That's borderline insane	treestar	Mar 2014	#231
Pretty much, yeah.	DeSwiss	Mar 2014	#188
and you should always beat animals and children	whistler162	Mar 2014	#20
Wait. What. Did somebody say we should beat the president?	yardwork	Mar 2014	#206
The candidates need to be confronted and questioned and challenged.	oldandhappy	Mar 2014	#22
Are those the only 2 options you're giving us?	JaneyVee	Mar 2014	#28
Reccing for the subject line.	woo me with science	Mar 2014	#33
There is a big difference	Andy823	Mar 2014	#34
I think there should be a bipartisan effort to strengthen the legitimacy of the office myself.	GiveMeMorePIE	Mar 2014	#35
It was Bush that destroyed the legitimacy of the office and the absolution of Bush	Bluenorthwest	Mar 2014	#40
Presidents' actions or lack thereof are certainly open for either criticism or praise, imo...	Spazito	Mar 2014	#37
Many folks require a cult of personality to believe in	1000words	Mar 2014	#38
DURec.	bvar22	Mar 2014	#42
No one here has announced there should be no criticism of the Prez or stand by him right or wrong.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#65
Many here believe that "they" and ONLY "they" can draw the line between...	bvar22	Mar 2014	#78
It doesn't take much brain power to figure out what is criticism and what is bashing.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#111
for YOURSELF...	bvar22	Mar 2014	#130
Skinner has made it simple for you	ucrdem	Mar 2014	#133
But YOU are the one WHINING,	bvar22	Mar 2014	#142
I'm afraid you're very mistaken.	ucrdem	Mar 2014	#143
YOU have made it an issue in THIS thread,	bvar22	Mar 2014	#150
What on earth. Pornography? You friend are confused. nt	ucrdem	Mar 2014	#151
You really have to pay closer attention.	bvar22	Mar 2014	#154
Off the rails. Buh bye. nt	ucrdem	Mar 2014	#155
Alert FAIL!	bvar22	Mar 2014	#272
It doesn't take superhuman powers to divine what is criticism and what is bashing.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#134
Nobody's fucking "idolizing".. and this is where the communication breaks down. You cover up the	Cha	Mar 2014	#45
Mea Culpa.	bvar22	Mar 2014	#125
People would like to think that politicians are "leaders" rather than public servants.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Mar 2014	#47
Wrong on Carter	mrchips	Mar 2014	#49
Ahem. Carter initiated the policy of arming Afghanis,	truebluegreen	Mar 2014	#186
Lovely revisionism but...	mrchips	Mar 2014	#207
This will be news to Brzezinski.	truebluegreen	Mar 2014	#210
Carter Boycotted Olympics	mrchips	Mar 2014	#213
My point was exactly what I said:	truebluegreen	Mar 2014	#217
Feel Better?	mrchips	Mar 2014	#222
Uh-huh.	truebluegreen	Mar 2014	#238
You began	mrchips	Mar 2014	#243
Thanks for correcting that. I have gotten to the point I don't bother. Google would prove most	freshwest	Mar 2014	#271
Sometimes I think there is a strong corrolation between partisanship and authoritarianism. nt	rrneck	Mar 2014	#50
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Mar 2014	#51
It is always necessary to be civil if you want to be heard. nt	bemildred	Mar 2014	#55
Oh, shut the #@!$ up, you Obama-worshiping cretin!	randome	Mar 2014	#91
Questioned and Confronted by whom? Not in person	OKNancy	Mar 2014	#58
Hear hear	lumpy	Mar 2014	#70
yeah, but i think the intent is to turn off people to OBama and other Dems	JI7	Mar 2014	#96
this new and oft-mentioned suspicion among Obama supporters...	grasswire	Mar 2014	#129
ITA	JustAnotherGen	Mar 2014	#66
Questioned and confronted	LostOne4Ever	Mar 2014	#67
Presidents should be questioned and confronted.	Iggo	Mar 2014	#73
In my very humble opinion...	N_E_1 for Tennis	Mar 2014	#76
we can all see who the POS is, come on now	stg81	Mar 2014	#77
Should presidents be rhetorically shat upon?	Skinner	Mar 2014	#80
If he's a Republican, apparently.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#86
But	ProSense	Mar 2014	#89
I like that:	Jamaal510	Mar 2014	#169
No!	sheshe2	Mar 2014	#175
Must protect bush-cheney's sensibilities..	Cha	Mar 2014	#184
who gives a shit how Republicans are treated, this is not a republican site	JI7	Mar 2014	#94
Skinner does apparently	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#141
he has never criticized anyone for going after Bush and other Republicans	JI7	Mar 2014	#159
Direct quote:	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#164
it's very clear based on him never objecting to attacks on republicans and this being DEMOCRATIC	JI7	Mar 2014	#167
Except he just did object to attacks on Republicans, by implication.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#171
no it's not , look at the board DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND , you have to consider the context of where	JI7	Mar 2014	#172
It's very CLEAR and anyone who doesn't see that is trying to	Cha	Mar 2014	#189
I'm using "should" because that's the word the OP used.	Skinner	Mar 2014	#195
+1000	OKNancy	Mar 2014	#199
Right then.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#200
You're changing the subject.	Skinner	Mar 2014	#209
Maybe Tourette Syndrome is also under-reported?	randome	Mar 2014	#212
No, I'm not actually changing the subject.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#214
Is it really so difficult to just give a straight "no" answer?	Skinner	Mar 2014	#225
Excellent way to completely miss the relevant context, there.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#239
I have run across the idea that	treestar	Mar 2014	#237
So you've never	840high	Mar 2014	#148
+1 I asked the same	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#107
I don't care for the crude insults	Skittles	Mar 2014	#103
I will ask again, are you intending to extend this courtesy to all Presidents	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#108
Then I respectfully suggest you find another forum.	randome	Mar 2014	#110
Lt Awol was regularly shat upon by DU during his tenure	truebrit71	Mar 2014	#113
What a	ProSense	Mar 2014	#126
Really!	greatauntoftriplets	Mar 2014	#127
Interesting that, huh? But we have some here who freely admit they are former GOP but always post	freshwest	Mar 2014	#187
You do realize that this is Democratic Underground?	sheshe2	Mar 2014	#174
the person was also angry about the trip to China by Michelle Obama	JI7	Mar 2014	#191
I was angry? Really?	truebrit71	Mar 2014	#204
I was looking for some information on her trip there... And one of the first search resutls was a	freshwest	Mar 2014	#273
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Seriously.	truebrit71	Mar 2014	#203
Thank you for the question, Skinner. The question that's getting a thousand	Cha	Mar 2014	#192
These are	ProSense	Mar 2014	#83
Yes, the executive office connects with the message and leads as a result...	MrMickeysMom	Mar 2014	#88
When I hear the attackers of the president come up with 1 good idea, I might listen to them	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#92
Well here is one that I knew was going to be a problem	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#128
And it is proving to be a problem. Time will tell whether the problem will be solved.	lumpy	Mar 2014	#137
As I said, Leader Pelosi and President Obama did not fight for that	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#144
+1 most of them are just not really good constructive criticism	treestar	Mar 2014	#235
I agree. Out of context. Plus the whiners have 0 ideas. I've yet to hear one. They have none. nt	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#250
Doesn't that go with all world leaders? Or Executives in general?	fujiyama	Mar 2014	#93
no shit	Skittles	Mar 2014	#101
"the Tiger Beat fan club is sickening"	ProSense	Mar 2014	#105
Indeed it is..	truebrit71	Mar 2014	#140
Yeah and they love it. I guess the next time I lose a jury decision	Rex	Mar 2014	#149
Aw f 'em	Skittles	Mar 2014	#152
No doubt.	Rex	Mar 2014	#153
+1	Jgarrick	Mar 2014	#102
Well...duh.	Texasgal	Mar 2014	#109
I'd like to see the FUD peddlers questioned and confronted.	ucrdem	Mar 2014	#131
Because we are not a monolith	seveneyes	Mar 2014	#138
A good question	lumpy	Mar 2014	#139
Question...	fleabiscuit	Mar 2014	#173
DAMN right and WELL said! Full marks for you, go to the head of the class!!!!! nt	MADem	Mar 2014	#180
Nailed it. n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#274
This level of distrust and cynicism goes far beyond what's healthy	cheapdate	Mar 2014	#156
Yes, and it's a recipe for apathy leading to very bad results. n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#275
I haven't made a formal study of the question,	cheapdate	Mar 2014	#277
CP posted this cartoon of why it's necessary:	freshwest	Apr 2014	#278
Aye	fleabiscuit	Mar 2014	#161
We call this a false dichotomy.	AceWheeler	Mar 2014	#177
Politicians are servants of the people...and anyone who is abusive towards their servants is an ass.	MADem	Mar 2014	#178
not sure that was the attitude around here 2001-2008	DrDan	Mar 2014	#202
I have been here since the first week DU went live, notwithstanding my "new"	MADem	Mar 2014	#255
well - I have been here since 2001 also	DrDan	Mar 2014	#257
Come on--this IS a partisan website, after all. You are, since you've been here as long as I have,	MADem	Mar 2014	#258
it was silly of me to think "abusive, nasty and vitriolic language" applied to	DrDan	Mar 2014	#259
Well, thanks for missing--quite completely, too--the nuance in my remarks!	MADem	Mar 2014	#262
No mistreating the 'servants?'	fleabiscuit	Mar 2014	#253
Did you not even try to read what I said? I had it exactly right.	MADem	Mar 2014	#254
I’m not going to take responsibility for the actions of others.	fleabiscuit	Mar 2014	#260
The real boss is the population that shows up at the polls.	MADem	Mar 2014	#261
someone might chug a fifth and either edorse that, or rail against it.	dionysus	Mar 2014	#182
You are way too generous.	blkmusclmachine	Mar 2014	#183
K&R	DeSwiss	Mar 2014	#185
I think that's what the founders had in mind.	yardwork	Mar 2014	#205
Leaders and those in positions of power should always be under much more scrutiny.	L0oniX	Mar 2014	#208
Taught my kids, ALWAYS question authority.	marble falls	Mar 2014	#220
That's what I tell my daughters, too.	randome	Mar 2014	#229
Even in simpler matters?	treestar	Mar 2014	#234
Always question authority. Always truth to power.	marble falls	Mar 2014	#240
You trust all judges in this country? Wow, do more reading. Maybe questioning a judge should not....	Logical	Mar 2014	#252
Don't be talking trash about Jimmy!	Zen Democrat	Mar 2014	#223
Thank you! n/t	freshwest	Mar 2014	#276
If I don't criticize, then I must idolize? Is that what you said?	JohnnyRingo	Mar 2014	#227
I wholeheartedly agree.	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#232
"And what sort of person is allowed to be president?"	polichick	Mar 2014	#236
damned right! n/t	wildbilln864	Mar 2014	#244
Wow, this will piss off the Obamabots. n-t	Logical	Mar 2014	#251
You know what really pisses off "Obamabots"? Right wing trolls.	cheapdate	Apr 2014	#279
Looks like it worked!	Rex	Apr 2014	#280

Response to DerekG (Original post)

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 01:36 PM

KittyWampus (55,894 posts)

1. There's a huge space between seeing a POTUS as a respectable figure who can be criticized >

calling him a piece of shit car salesman > IDOLIZING them.

Presidents should be questioned and confronted, not idolized

1. There's a huge space between seeing a POTUS as a respectable figure who can be criticized >

4. Of course your "respect for the office" argument falls apart with a republican president

9. I didn't say "respect for the office". I intentionally said respect for a President of the USA who

12. So you always followed that criteria with Bush?

14. Nope, I admit to be hypocritical at times. That's pretty human isn't it?

17. Thanks for a good (honest) answer!

21. So you're saying that Obama = Bush? nt

23. Nice try lol

116. That's got to be the one of the weakest, most pathetic, and,

194. Pathetic.

248. ...

79. Why should we care ...

81. That's an excellent question...

99. Folks keep asking and nobody keeps answering

158. I soooooo

181. Are you going to go all Odyssey on me??

226. Ha! nt

160. There is no objective reason to care about anything.

162. We shouldn't and I don't.

166. What fucking crap

168. I was referring to a hit and run poster.

170. Ah... sorry then n/t

216. Wait-- you're still insisting that "used car salesman" is a racist term? /nt

165. We should care about the level of political discourse, which apparently is the topic here. Or is it

211. I'm talking about those here ...

95. who gives a shit about Bush , this is a Dem site

247. Maybe the millions of innocent victims he created many of whom are still trying to get

26. Well, I've pretty much followed your advice when criticizing policies of not just this president but

32. Generally, I respect you and your posts. Have a good weekend Sabrina!

36. Thank you KittyWampus, you too!

215. It's nice to see some civility. It's too bad that everyone with policy disagreements could not get

265. Plus un brazilion. n/t

120. The fan club tend to lash out against the thoughtful critiques

201. went to University?

196. i have no "respect for the office."

197. Then you have given more weight to the negatives, which shows bias.

198. it's not as simple as that.

218. Part of the problem is that Bush left such a rancid stench on the office that

228. Your point is well made.

219. I'm with you on that. And I fail to see how the phrase is any different from "respect the badge"...

224. Exactly

10. But they are salesmen

16. They are executives. Marketing is done by subordinates. Can they do much to rally people

87. How can you respect an executive that carries the wrong message, shaped by his marketeers?

43. That statement is could be a disortion , exaggeration and a lie, Derek.

44. "salesman"? really? Now the Piece of shit used car salesman is reduced to "salesman"? I don't

59. Well, yes Cha - salesman

63. No.. don't see this president that way. bush was the fucking decider and

69. Richard Neustadt argued that the power of

85. Sorry Cha, that's just how it works

90. I know how it works.. you really don't need to welcome me to politics.

246. You sure? Because it looks like you're taking offense at reality

221. Are you as amazed as I am

179. Gee, when FDR referred to a "Day that will live in infamy," no one called him a "piece of shit used

267. Thank you for the history. n/t

145. I would think he does

117. Of course,

118. He made two posts. The first one did call the President a 'piece of shit' and a 'used car salesman'.

122. I probably shouldn't have assumed

124. What, you can't follow every post in GD? Slacker!

242. Randome is NOT being honest about that. (surprised?)

245. The bias is yours, bvar22.

249. I've driven POS Used Cars most of my life.

263. So, in the term "Millionaire Used Car Salesman" the "Millionaire" bit refers to the CAR, not the

2. Criticism does no good unless you have an endgame in mind.

25. No, no President deserves the benefit of the doubt. On the contrary, the People deserve the truth.

146. Absolutely.

30. When any elected official is pushing bad policies they do NOT deserve the 'benefit of the doubt'.

41. I would show you the same benefit of a doubt, Sabrina.

98. we give a president the "benefit of the doubt" when we elect him or her.

104. Of course it's not immutable. But keep the bigger picture in view.

106. what DO you do when your daughters deceive or dismay you? nt

112. Make them aware that I know it.

119. the Internet actually interferes with any significant protest.

123. You're probably right about the Internet.

68. Great reply! nt

157. Do you think that opposing the TPP is tilting at windmills? Do you think we should just

193. I have never called anyone out for posting about the TPP. Yes, I think it's a legitimate issue.

241. accountability and broken promises DEMAND IT. n/t

135. I know. But it is required to support Democrats - especially in an election year.

281. Talk about a high horse. Yours is staggering.