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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPussy Riot members call for sanctions against Russia
Oh hell yeah.
Pussy Riot members Nadia Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina have called for economic sanctions against Russia in the wake of their country’s military action in the Ukraine.
The pair spoke at Tallinn Music Week in the Estonian capital today (March 28).
Alyokhina said: "Tomorrow we plan to be in Kiev in order to support Ukraine. Then we go to the European Parliament to call for sanctions against Russia. It must be understood that economic sanctions will hurt ordinary Russians, but maybe it has got to the point where Russians are too comfortable sat on the couch, and this will shake them and force them out onto the streets to express their opinions."
Asked by NME how the rest of the world should react to Vladimir Putin’s aggression in Ukraine’s Crimea region, Tolokonnikova replied: "The problem with Putin is that it’s impossible to talk to him because he doesn't seem to understand when he is told."
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/pussy-riot/76388#z9QV9rCa6AdqXRtb.99
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rdharma
(6,057 posts)How about you?
uhnope
(6,419 posts)How about you?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts).
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Just kidding. 
uhnope
(6,419 posts)be a major moment in music history.
Shills and Putin apologists can sneer as much as RW Tories and hippies did at the Pistols
rdharma
(6,057 posts)As bad as the neo-Nazi headbanger NOISE!
go west young man
(4,856 posts)At least the Sex Pistols and John Lydon had a sense of melody. The British punks were nihilists and existentialist from the Jean Paul Sartre school of thought. Public Image Limited was incredibly melodic and cutting edge as was the Clash and Big Audio Dynamite. There is no musical comparison. It's noble that Pussy Riot wanted to rock the boat but it's always nice if you have a great vehicle to drive your message. And playing in a church in Russia without permission would definitely get you arrested same as it would in the USA or UK. Take for example the Dixie Chicks political message. It was backed up by real talent which gave it credibility. Same as John Lennon, Peter Gabriel or U2. The vehicle does matter.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Everything you say was said against Sex Pistols. SP were not PIL.
Playing a protest song in a church not during a service in US might get you busted. You would get a fine and released at most, not serious prison time. Probably nothing if you did it the way Pussy Riot did it.
Pussy Riot rocks. Love Live Pussy Riot, Down with Putin Dictatorship
go west young man
(4,856 posts)This music sucks. Same rule applies. Johnny Lydon was the sex pistols and he had tonnes of melodic talent and he carried that talent into PIL. Anyone who truly knows punk rock knows that. As far as playing in churches in the US goes. Give it a shot and tell us what term the judge decides to give you.
Response to uhnope (Reply #49)
go west young man This message was self-deleted by its author.
DavidDvorkin
(19,469 posts)and tools of the oligarchs.
Perhaps some DUers will be along to explain that to us.
Cha
(296,868 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Cha
(296,868 posts)just how ridiculously low they're going to go to protect Putin.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4750655
Oh excuse me.. "worse than ted nugent".. hey Nugent's got a fan.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Cha
(296,868 posts)pushback on claiming nugent was better than PR?
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)It would appear that the next Pootiebot in queue has popped in to replace him.
Cha
(296,868 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)I've heard that the Russian economy is on the rocks, but that seems desperately bad.
I kid! In Russia, idol adores you!
Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #5)
Post removed
Cha
(296,868 posts)Gays and now against his aggression in the Ukraine. Mustn't upset Putin..\
Tough-Talking Putin Crafted Image His Way
by Gregory Feifer - May 03, 2008
...The Kremlin has worked hard to build Putin's public image as Russia's virile "national leader" whose authority extends beyond his presidency...
Few people had heard of Vladimir Putin when Russia's then-President Boris Yeltsin appointed him prime minister in 1999. But the stern-faced former KGB officer triggered a love affair with the Russian population — by starting a popular second war in Chechnya later that year...
"If they're in the airport," Putin said, "we'll kill them there ... and excuse me, but if we find them in the toilet, we'll exterminate them in their outhouses."
...Putin has often lost his temper in public. During a 2002 news conference in Brussels, Belgium, the president responded to a question that angered him by inviting a reporter to come to Moscow to be circumcised:
"We have specialists in this question, as well," Putin said. "I'll recommend that he carry out the operation in such a way that nothing will grow back..."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90083829
uhnope
(6,419 posts)is here, check those edits http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=183957
Seems to feel the need to be cagey about opinion of Putin...
go west young man
(4,856 posts)try to purge and go after Dipsy Doodle who has been here since 2006 fighting against hypocrisy. You got a bit of a "Lord of the Flies" mentality apparently.
GiveMeMorePIE
(54 posts)Hopefully soon them and their fans can be part of making Russia the country that the Russian people deserve.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Trying to keep themselves in the headlines. Otherwise.... they are nothing.
Coventina
(27,064 posts)I must point out that they actually DID go to jail, while Ted Nugent still remains a free (and living) man, failing to fulfill his vow of being dead or in jail due to Obama's re-election.
I say they win over Nugent in the credibility, walking-the-walk department.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)But being a bit less of a hypocrite than Ted Nugent. Is that something positive?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)the two who came to the US on tour or the groups actions in Russia?
JI7
(89,241 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)They protested Putin, suffered a jail sentence and assaults without turning on their beliefs, and refused financial support from Western musicians.
How the hell does any of that make PR hypocrites? Even more important, how the hell do you compare a band standing on principle for the LGBT community and Russian minorities to that racist, pants-crapping chickenhawk?
Cha
(296,868 posts)Yeah, I know he's only longer with us for whatever reason but still wanted to hash that over.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I feel like I've been given a present!
Cha
(296,868 posts)it's still high and others will be popping up to take his place. But, yeah.. bringing up ted nugent as being better than PR was particularly insane.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)They went to jail for playing a concert in a church without permission. The same thing would get anyone arrested in the USA or UK. It was a publicity stunt that worked, but of course it had consequences...namely jail time. Throwing tantrums when you get arrested probably didn't help either...unless of course that was something they planned for too.
Coventina
(27,064 posts)And a two year sentence in PRISON?
go west young man
(4,856 posts)Everyday people are denied bail for minor infractions and Obama doesn't personally sit in on their cases. Do you seriously think Putin who is running Russia has time to worry about Pussy Riots court case? Your delusional.
Coventina
(27,064 posts)administrations are in any way comparable in the administration of justice, I think you'll find that very few agree with you.
Hilarious irony in the name-calling, BTW.
Cha
(296,868 posts)has already considered you in the running for head of his US fan club.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)uhnope
(6,419 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)No worries. It was sarcasm. 
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Cha
(296,868 posts)they're exposing putin as best they can.
That member expired about ten minutes ago.
Won't be missed by many.
Cha
(296,868 posts)my headache has suddenly cleared up! 
Thank you kindly. 
Cha
(296,868 posts)Does that mean he was asking for it or he literally wanted to take his show on the road?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I didn't see any Walt Starr type posts from the member, they did have a post hidden today on their otherwise clean record.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4750655
It suddenly stopped raining here, and the sun is coming out!
Cha
(296,868 posts)be in a place anymore I would just gracefully stop posting already. Ya never know when you might want to say something on that particular board again. 
Coincidently.. it's just stopped raining here and the Sun is out! Yay.. I can go for that run. 
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)uhnope
(6,419 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)uhnope
(6,419 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)I just had a vision of one of those little communist believers who ran around Russia ratting out people who didn't conform to communism.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)if that shocks you, I'm sure there are RT-love forums or whatever out there for you.
For you to try to insult me by comparing me to a Commie true believer shows the blinders you have glued onto your head.
JI7
(89,241 posts)? Never heard their music but that's not really important in this debate m
uhnope
(6,419 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)Putin never oversaw their case. He could have tossed out their sentence...same as Obama with a pardon...but he didn't.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)You do understand that it's not progressive to support a gay-bashing, democracy-stomping. free-media-crushing dictatorship, don't you?
go west young man
(4,856 posts)maybe you can "purge" everyone who disagrees with you by titling them "Putin apologist". I notice the "Putin apologists" never alert on you guys. But you seem to alert quite often on people with differing views. Human beings disagree. Get over it.
You are proof that US propaganda is just as strong as any Russian propaganda. How many cases does Obama sit in on? None. He won't even review that unjustly imprisoned Alabama governors case. Why would Putin worry about some half asses wanna be musicians playing illegally in a church? It never made sense except in gullible minds here in the US. The same minds that believed there were WMDs in Iraq.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)like gay rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, of democracy over tyranny. Pro-Putin is not progressive, flat out.
Putin apologists might get alerted when they cross the line into Freeperville. I don't know, I don't run the site.
So what's the deal with your support for Putin? Surely you reject his gay-bashing, TV-network-closing, democracy-crushing dictatorship, right?
go west young man
(4,856 posts)over what I consider less important matters in the larger scheme of things. I've been in Russia many times and I'm amazed at how incorrect most of the assumptions are here at DU. Understanding Russia requires a bit of deeper thought than "hey they passed a law against gay rights" or "look over there it's the red scare!". What many here miss is that Russia being lifted out of poverty actually helps all individuals and eventually changes things in Russia and eventually makes the world a more global and peaceful place. It's the largest nation on earth with 153 million citizens. It isn't going to change overnight or even in 20 years but overall they are making great progress. I've seen it first hand on many occasions. I've spent one month a year there for the past 8 years.
I am a former US marine who was actually trained back in 1985 to fight against the Russians. My father in law was trained in the Russian military at the same time to fight against US marines. We laugh about it now when we drink together and play music. He's a great musician and I play a bit of mandolin and guitar. I remember being in West Germany in 1986 and even having a German citizen throw an apple at me and tell me to get the fuck out of his country so I have a pretty good understanding of Cold War mentality. It's a thing of the past. A thing that I'm willing to speak out against to help raise awareness.
The Cold War is over and I see no benefit for regular citizens in the US or in Russia or in Ukraine for that matter to fall back into that ridiculousness. I do see the same old characters trying to push the issue and create another bogeyman so they can get the MIC contracts and become important again....namely the neocons and right wing hawks that have always sent the US down the wrong path. They knew terrorism would only get them so far and have planned this for quite some time.
Everyone has issues that matter to them more than others. I have watched plenty of Russian TV. Believe it or not they have gay characters on TV shows and their news is pretty similar to ours. All stations cover the same shit and tow the same line....just like in the USA. Their news isn't wrapped in the colors of the flag like ours is but it does have elements of propaganda...the same as ours does. After all our media did convince everyone that Iraq had WMD and needed to be invaded. Our hands aren't so clean ya know?
As far as Putin goes I don't think he will stay on beyond 2016. I think Medvedev will take the helm again as they have a joint long term plan to keep Russia moving forward.
One other thing, I'm originally from England. My wife is Russian. I've lived all over the world. I don't see us versus them. I'm not a nationalist although I once was (after all I was in the military). I'm a human being and so are the people over there and the citizens here who will be effected as our military continues to expand and social programs like education, healthcare and retirement suffer..
The real enemy is ignorance and the dinosaur minds that drive outdated foreign policy. That is what the real fight is against. The neocons still need to be curtailed and the militaristic mindset of the USA needs to change to one of peace and association. After all our neocons were the ones who pushed for the Ukrainian overthrow and they knew once again that everyone would get behind it because it was "Russia".
We are all being played. Putin's move into Crimea was not something the Russians planned for..it was something they took advantage of after a coup that we helped initiate. It was a chess move simply made after our chess move. I'm hoping that maybe we will learn to play with clean hands. For if we did maybe...just maybe...we could rise to the great nation the US is supposed to be. I believe under it all we have a long way to go but throwing stones over there isn't helping us. It's helping the same few greedy right wing hawkish Americans that have always hurt others with their selfish actions. I hope that explains my outlook a bit. It's not support of Putin. He's just the guy in charge. With Russia it could always be a worse guy. People misunderstand that bit. When it comes to the second largest stockpile of nuclear weapons on Earth I think I'll take a calm Putin over what might possibly come to leadership in Russia. My support is for a country that has suffered...longer and harder than most people on this side of the pond have suffered. I'm not into kicking them anymore. They don't have to be the enemy...they have wanted to be our friend and compete fairly in the marketplace of ideas. The last decade has shown that. Even their beautiful Olympic presentation showed that.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Imagine your doppelganger--let's say you're a Russian man married to an American woman during the Iraq invasion, and because of your appreciation of the USA and your love of the American people, you defend the invasion of Iraq. That's pretty much where you're at, but you instead defend the Kremlin, its brazen moves in Ukraine, and Putin's democracy-crushing 20-year romp.
You seem to think that Neocons and the MIC are the only force on the planet, and there is no equivalent counterpart in Russia. Sorry, Russia has these elements just as much--and there's not even a veneer of democracy to try to keep them in check.
You also seem to think the USA simply pulls puppet strings in Ukraine, that Ukrainian people couldn't possibly have done something themselves because they are sick of corrupt pro-Kremlin leadership and kicked them out in a people's uprising. Because of your black-and-white thinking--that because the USA's neocons and MIC are evil, Russia must be just innocently defending itself, you also fall for conspiracy theory that neocons were somehow responsible for the Ukrainian kicking out of Yanukovych, and not the Ukrainian people themselves.
I've been around as much as you. Maybe that incident in Germany is keeping you from being objective. Maybe my experience in Eastern Europe makes me realize how effed up the USSR was, how it ground people down while sucking dry the countries it occupied. Gay people on Russian TV indicates that Russia is not so bad to gays? Their Olympics showed they are good guys? Really? (And did you miss Pussy Riot getting beaten by Cossacks during Sochi?) That's really insulting to activists for gay rights, freedom and democracy in the Russia, and really shows you have some serious blinders on.
Just like all Americans were not instantly to blame because of Bush and the invasion of Iraq, don't let your fondness for the Russian people turn into rationalizations for the actions of dictator Putin.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)when you don't even know that Putins only been Russia's leader for 15 years? Your marriage analogy makes very little sense in the context of our debate. You completely lost me with that one. You may have missed the part also where I mentioned it could get a lot worse leader wise for Russia. Having been there quite a bit I fully understand the inherent dangers of powerful nefarious people.
You, like many posters here, seem to constantly miss that the Russian federation is not the USSR. You may want it to be but it is not. As far as gay rights go in Russia I argued with many posters here that denigrating all of Russia during their time for the Olympics was unwise if they wanted to advance the cause of equality for gay people in Russia. Putins popularity actually went up and centrists that were previously on the fence on the issue actually swung to Putin. So it didn't help gay rights in Russia in the least. I recommend a more creative approach and was called numerous names here including homophobe and gay basher.
Sometimes people have differing views on matters and how to approach things. I notice up above you are attempting to call out people and get them banned. You named Dipsy who's been posting here much longer than you and adding good content to these often one sided debates. I don't mind wearing whatever title is thrown at me if it helps to dissipate this red scare rhetoric that is eerily reminiscent of the run up to Iraq. The only difference being....back then DU was united against any warmongering and we had folks who we're critical thinkers that were looking deeply into the real reasons for the conflict.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Putin will be a 20-year ruler by the time this term ends, that was my implication. I'll bet good money he will find a way to stay in power after all, too, maybe with the same PM trick as last time.
I will try to make the analogy for your situation easier so you can understand it:
Imagine a Russia living in Russia in 2005, married to an American, and this Russian is very fond of America. This Russian is also very critical of and skeptical about Russian government and society. This fondness for America makes him support the USA's invasion of Iraq, believes it has good intentions, and believe all the reasons that the Bush administration suggests (it's a defensive pre-emptive strike, he is working on nukes and WMDs, it must be done to stop terrorism, etc.) This Russian believes that international terrorists, and maybe even the Russian gov't, are helping Saddam, and so he is even more in favor of Bush's invasion of Iraq (because Americans are basically good people.) He won't believe there were any election irregularities in Florida in 2000, or that the military corporations and oil companies in the USA influence the invasion of Iraq. He won't believe there is anything nefarious about the USA's invasion of Iraq, at all.
Objectively, we can say that this Russian was very wrong about Bush and the invasion of Iraq, and was blinded by his fondness for America. Do you agree?
And yet that is the same situation you are in. You believe the US is run by neocons and the MIC, and so is causing every incident happening in the Ukraine, and Russia is just replying defensively, with good intentions (because Russians are basically good people). You can't see Putin's long history of stomping democracy, the horrid record on gay rights, or his shutting down of independent media. You won't believe there could be anything nefarious about Russia's takeover of Crimea.
That's my point, as simple as I can make it. If you can't see yourself in that analogy, then so be it.
On a separate note, I'm surprised your inlaws are not anti-Putin. One educated Russian colleague of mine, living in Russia, said "I wouldn't shake his hand" when I joked about her meeting Putin in Moscow. And that was before the Crimea takeover. I also have ethnic Russian Ukrainian friends who all think Putin is another dictator in the Stalin mode. They are all resentful that he's crushed democracy.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)They say that "it could always be worse, eta Russia". They do recognize the amount of money in their pockets compared to ten years ago. Their income has tripled and the babushka that they used to pay for receives $350 from the government each month. They are quite happy. Adversely they do wonder why the USA is so militaristic and constantly picking on Russia. That is the real difference, the USA just sees the red scare mother Russia USSR through the media lens. My goal has been to try to humanize that red scare. I hope I have made a difference.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)sanctions on the people of Russia instead of say maybe Putin. But there are going to be in Kiev to support the neo nazi supported, illegal govt in Kiev.
Its sad but the sound that comes out of your instrument is more noise than music and then calling for a measure that would hurt the Russian people puts it over the top. Stay classy Pussy Riot.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)means that I get to hear the NPR "All Things Considered" folks say their name in their patented dulcet tones.
