regarding WP...activism...and DU in general

[backwoodsbob]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by EarlG (a host of the General Discussion forum).

All I can say is WTF happened to DU since we went to DU3?

This used to be the NUMBER ONE site for leftist activism on the net.I remember in 2004 when I was still somewhat a lurker we had entire days worth of posts dedicated to people planning voter drives and manning polling places and GOVT work.Hell,we would have threads to make sure we had someone manning every precinct we could possibly cover.

In 2004 DU was on the cutting edge of voter fraud and voting machine fraud.We had THE big hitters of the election fraud debate posting here.If you wanted info on the vote rigging...THIS site is where you came bacause the big players were here.

We were on the forefront of animal activism here not long ago.I was the biggest no kill activist in my area until I moved and with other no kill shelter activists around the country we literally saved thousands of pets and coordinated tons and tons of food to different shelters across the country to keep things going and worked to change the laws about killing shelter animals


WE DID AMAZING THINGS!!!!WE CHANGED THE WORLD



NOW?We just fight and argue and parse words and take each others posts out of context and act like schoolyard bullies.

I don't care about saving DU3...DU3 is nothing but a bunch of bullies trying to win the playground fight.I want DU2 with the mods and the old system back.Maybe then we can get back the old feeling of community

[LeftyMom]

1. Irony is not fucking dead.

We were on the forefront of animal activism here not long ago.I was the biggest no kill activist in my area until I moved and with other no kill shelter activists around the country we literally saved thousands of pets and coordinated tons and tons of food to different shelters across the country to keep things going and worked to change the laws about killing shelter animals

backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. back from er

6 stitches and lots of family drama..was surreal

My wifes nephews shepperd came up here and attacked my terrier...I tried to pull them apart and his dog bit me in the arm...then jumped back on my terrier...I kicked it trying to get it off my terrier and it turned on me and bit the fuck out of my face.

6 stitches and a buttload of pain.

she's dead..oh well..I shot the son of a bitch..fuck her

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8665082&mesg_id=8665413

[backwoodsbob]

2. seriously...how many years are you going to stalk me

let it go

[Gidney N Cloyd]

4. You kind of walked into that one.

[backwoodsbob]

5. not really

this is making my point better than I ever could.

It's about beating the other poster...not getting shit done

[Gidney N Cloyd]

12. BWB, the thing you're known best for here is shooting that dog.

I won't pass judgement on whether it was needed or whether shooting is less humane than other forms of euthanasia but you did do it and for some reason you felt it necessary to bring up the animal rights thing in your OP.
If you don't want people commenting on the (arguable) irony then don't go there.

[CreekDog]

16. well you didn't just shoot the dog, you bragged about it

the bragging part means you are famous here for that.

completely avoidable, but it's not like you to avoid a fight.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. OMG wtf? nt

[Cali_Democrat]

104. Whaaaaaaat....the.....fuuuuuck?

[JI7]

3. not really, it has never been like that

[Blaukraut]

21. Nope. Been here since March (or April) 2001, and DU is as it ever was n/t

[tammywammy]

6. LOL

DU was always better back then. I think someone needs to take off their rose colored glasses.

[JI7]

10. HAHAHHA, didn't you say that before ?

[In_The_Wind]

14. It looks that way to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024772530

[CreekDog]

48. we are the lucky ones

he didn't shoot us

[morningfog]

90. He did have a dramatic exit before. He's flagged for review now.

[Jamastiene]

7. You mean you were the biggest no kill activist when you weren't killing dogs,

am I right? Or am I right?

[CreekDog]

13. i hope this one lived

[BainsBane]

15. I think people need to let the dog shooting thing go

How long are you going to give him shit over that? It sounds like it was a dangerous situation. Regardless, it was nearly five years ago.

[Jamastiene]

19. So, no kill should really mean, no kill unless backwoodsbob feels like it?

No, he bragged about it. If he hadn't bragged about it, I doubt anyone would be as pissed off at him, but he bragged about it. He should not be claiming to be a no kill activist if he is not, which, according to his own bragging post, he is not.

[BainsBane]

20. All I know is what was in the post above

I don't know if that constitutes bragging, but it sounds like if he hadn't killed the shepherd, it would have killed the terrier. The shepherd would have then had to be put down anyway. Authorities would have insisted on it.

I'll add that I'm no fan of Bob's, and the last exchange we had he furious at me. I just don't think it's right to continually bring up stuff from years ago.

[Jamastiene]

28. If you saw the original thread,

and subsequent information he has posted about the incident, I think you would feel differently.

He shot the dog well AFTER the incident that happened AND the dog was chained at the time he shot her.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022831503#post53

The dog could have been taken to a vet and euthanized if that was what the police insisted. Shooting a chained dog IS enough reason to remind someone they shot the dog AND bragged about it, when they go around claiming to be a no kill activist.

[NYC_SKP]

31. I agree fully with you, BainsBane.

The handful of members who have long memories and chose, quite deliberately, to try to shame members by posting things from the past, usually in a mischaracterizing way, constitute a form of bullying and I really disapprove, to put it mildly.

I don't know the full story, none of us really do, but it's always very easy to take a few elements of a story and make the worst of it, if that's one's goal.

Very shameful.

[CreekDog]

50. wait skip, are you saying that Backwoodsbob regrets what he posted?

that he's sorry for bragging about shooting the dog?

tell us this, if he is proud and happy that he shot the dog (i assume he is since he said so on DU and has not said differently in a few years), why isn't he thanking us for reminding him of the thing he is proud of?

how can you be bullied by a post that you were proud of?

how?

[Jamastiene]

68. He was proud of what he did, and what he did is illegal, so it is not bullying to remind him.

53. no he is right


I killed the dog in cold blood.She was chained when I shot her.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022831503#post53

Link is listed above.

He needs to quit claiming to be a no kill activist when he is pro kill....a chained dog, at that.

[CreekDog]

97. funny we're talking about dogs but you post incontrovertible proof and...

now there's only crickets.

[CreekDog]

47. isn't shooting a chained dog a felony

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022831503#post53

the other thing is, when the guy bragged about shooting the dog, why are we the bad ones for remembering that? he's the one who posted that stuff, not us.

it's not like he came back and said, please forgive me, what i did was wrong.

no, basically all he does is say, "get over it f--kers", again and again.

the point is he doesn't regret it, therefore we aren't bullies for reminding him of something he's proud.

in fact, he should thank us repeatedly for reminding him of how proud he was to have shot that dog, after chaining it up first.

[CreekDog]

78. first, it wouldn't have killed the other dog while chained up

second, the authorities wouldn't have shot the dog and not done so in anger.

third, unlike the bwb story, animal control would have handled things legally and humanely, or at least far more humanely, than the story bwb told us.

[BainsBane]

79. If it had just happened, I might get into the details

but it's five years later, and there is no point rehashing the thing over and over again.

[CreekDog]

82. well we're rehashing it because some here are defending what the guy did

it wasn't enough to just say they're sick of hearing about it and yeah the guy was a 100 levels of wrong for killing a dog like that.

but some here are actually quoting parts of the story to say that he's actually right.

[Jamastiene]

88. There is a point to bring it up when he is trying to claim to be a no kill activist.

Shooting a chained dog is not something a no kill activist would do.

[NealK]

120. +1 n/t

[Bonobo]

106. I commend you for saying that.

By hijacking this thread with something that happened so long ago, something so unrelated, it amounts to a de-facto muzzle on the OP's right to speech.

In continually pursuing the OP for an old post, LeftyMom is bullying, silencing, shaming and essentially tagging him with a Scarlet Letter.

I respect you and commend you for speaking up.

[CreekDog]

115. he's an example of what his OP describes

he went from an activist for no kill shelters.

to shooting a chained dog in his yard.

really took a wrong turn somewhere.

[Bonobo]

116. I don't see how it relates to the OP. Here is what I see:

I see abusive posters who will not let him ever forget something that he did.
I see an OP who will not be given a chance to be anything other than the way the abusive people here are painting him.

It is EXACTLY as if a person in real life were to stand up at a town council meeting and give her opinion only to be shouted down because she was once seen spanking her child.

Is it your position that a mother who had done such a thing should never be given the chance to open her mouth in public without being publicly shamed for having once spanked her child?

I think the analogy is apt.

[NYC_SKP]

32. Let it go.

You weren't there, you don't know, it's beginning to look like bullying.

Please stop it.

[Jamastiene]

74. It is not bullying when he bragged about it.

He should not be claiming to be any kind of no kill activist. I never reply to him otherwise, but when he claims to be a no kill activist, I am going to remind people that is patently false. He shot a chained dog. That is NOT what a no kill activist does.

[CreekDog]

86. you're the one doubting his story, not us

if you want to call him a liar, fine.

we're actually taking him at his word that he did what he said he did.

unlike others who seek to justify and rationalize what he did, we're taking him at his very word, which he has not taken back, nor corrected, in fact he doubled down on the words when asked...

and we are judging him by the verbatim words he offered here

if your best defense of the guy is that he made it all up and was lying, good for you if you think that's somehow complimentary.

[hfojvt]

54. except that

usually the dogs killed by shelters are fairly nice dogs, they just get killed because they have no homes. They are, presumably, usually not dogs which have killed other dogs and attacked the humans who tried to stop them.

So I am not seeing a huge contradiction between killing a vicious dog and at the same time desiring to save homeless dogs.

[CreekDog]

56. why are you defending what is not only illegal, but likely a felony?

A second provision to Ill Treatment of Animals is: “Whoever tortures, torments, needlessly mutilates, cruelly kills, or inflicts excessive
or repeated unnecessary pain or suffering upon any animal or by omission or commission causes the acts to be done.” This is a felony
punishable by imprisonment of not less than 180 days and not to exceed 5 years AND a fine of $5000. Exemptions are made for fowl,
accepted animal husbandry practices of farm operations and the training of animals, the practice of veterinary medicine, agricultural
practices, forestry and silvacultural practices, wildlife management practices.

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/PDF/AnimalCrueltyLaws.pdf

[hfojvt]

89. empathy?

"My wifes nephews shepperd came up here and attacked my terrier...I tried to pull them apart and his dog bit me in the arm...then jumped back on my terrier...I kicked it trying to get it off my terrier and it turned on me and bit the fuck out of my face.

6 stitches and a buttload of pain.

she's dead" I took that to mean the terrier is dead. Maybe not though.


Likely a felony? Seems to be an adjective there "cruelly kills".

A month ago a large dog got into my fenced yard and attacked my harmless beta dog. I have a two foot metal pipe now that I keep by my back door. Dog comes into my yard again and attacks one of mine, it is not gonna walk out under its own power if I have anything to say about it.

[CreekDog]

93. you seem to be unclear about whether chaining up a dog then shooting it multiple times

is considered "cruel" under the law.

it's not my job to convince you of what is patently obvious.

but i'm not the only one to go down this kind of road with you, for you, really.

[NYC_SKP]

98. Don't bother.

Some people can't help themselves, even if something happened five years ago.

Some people see a person having a bad day, who writes an OP, has a couple of posts hidden, and then go into Hyena mode, trying to get them to become even angrier.

I call it bullying and I won't entertain them.

I can relate to Bob's story: The dog he shot was a deadly vicious dog with a record, one that animal control or police could easily have dispatched legally and in some places would be legal to put down by the likes of Bob for being a menace. And, if it wasn't legal it sure wouldn't be a felony, if it was ever prosecuted at all.

And to take that action, to put a vicious animal down with a shotgun, quickly, after being attacked himself and seen other dogs victimized, doesn't take away from the man's compassion for animals and defense of no-kill animal sanctuaries. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Bullies need to get away from this thread and leave the man alone.

[flvegan]

112. You can relate?

So you were there? You saw it, you back his play on this do you? Or...?

To be clear, you justify and endorse what he did with this post of yours? Without regard or reservation, right?

[CreekDog]

113. how many dogs have you shot on a bad day?

then bragged on DU for doing so?

[AverageJoe90]

26. THIS. Just this. nt

[CreekDog]

52. so you're saying backwoodsbob wishes he never shot the dog

that he's sorry for shooting the dog after it was chained.

could you link to that apology? because everyone else has only seen the posts that bragged of it.

if he asked for forgiveness a lot of us couldn't withhold it from him. the question is, does he even regret it?

if he doesn't regret it, then it's not bullying to mention what he is in fact, proud of.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

58. You're the voice of reason, and probably right. nt

[flvegan]

108. Really?

So what other mental depravity do you forgive, personally, after 5 years? What's the BainsBane Statute of Limitations on morality?

[CreekDog]

17. i wonder what your drink of choice is?

[Capt. Obvious]

18. Thank you for kicking this

I was wondering what set him off.

[Dr. Strange]

22. I think it was "pussies and dicks and uptight drama queens".

Which, if I recall correctly, is a punk band from Lexington, KY.

[Capt. Obvious]

24. Oh my

[Number23]

23. Whisp is so crazy!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4772574

[Cha]

38. Yeah, the ol "anger is a gift" shit.. anger is anger if it makes the person go ballistic and isn't

channeled productively..

Whisp

[AverageJoe90]

25. Yeah.

I'd only actually been here since June of 2011.....and even I miss DU2. Far less of this literal "white privilege" weirdness & climate doomer fearmongering going around for one.

Also, I'm sorry you've had to put up with bullshit from certain people on this thread.

[CreekDog]

40. were you that one juror?

[ProSense]

27. Is this on of those

"team vs. policy" threads?

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Two words.

Personal. Attacks.

Once personal attacks became cool, everything devolved into merde.

[ProSense]

35. Don't forget the mocking

"Third Way Manny"

Divisiveness is not only about direct "Personal. Attacks."

In fact, the strawman divisiveness likely contributes more to the rise in "Personal. Attacks."

[MannyGoldstein]

62. Is there a particular TWM post that illustrates the problem?

Help me understand.

Thanks.

[ProSense]

64. You likely do already. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

67. That's pretty unfair.

You accuse me.

I ask for an example.

You refuse.

[ProSense]

71. You know those posts are mocking.

Why do you need an example of the mocking?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

59. Do you feel you may have played a part in that? Or not? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

60. In personal attacks?

Not really. I try hard to avoid them.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. In nurturing an atmosphere within which that became possible. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

66. I somehow gave people permission for personal attacks?

Or approved them?

I don't think so.

Do you have an example of something I wrote that's causing a problem?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. Hm... I didn't ask if you gave permission to, or if you attacked. I simply asked...

If you believe you may have contributed, by helping to nurture an environment within which that could take place.

[MannyGoldstein]

72. Only to the extent that people holding certain views might feel silly

and then lash out.

But if you look back at my posts, I think you'll find that I don't attack people; rather, I work to show that ridiculous ideas are, in fact ridiculous.

Again, I'd appreciate an example if you feel otherwise.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

77. Again, I had asked if you helped nurture an atmosphere within which that could take place.

However, you keep changing my question over and over to what you wish it would be.

[AgingAmerican]

99. Does

...asking the same antagonistic question over, and over, and over, help nurture an atmosphere within which that could take place?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

100. His changing the question is proving a bit antagonistic. :)

But thank you for your extending help.

[AgingAmerican]

101. Always...

...sorry, couldn't resist...

[hfojvt]

95. DU has never been without personal attacks

when I first joined DU, I used to keep a collection of the excremental words thrown at me until it seemed like a waste of effort.

They are perhaps more tolerated by juries than they are by the moderators.

But I am quite sure that many of the attacks on my never got deleted. For one thing, I never alerted on them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. I warned the owners of that a few years back

but noooo, cyberstalking is just not something that happens at a democratic forum... nope, no siree.

This is one reason I avoid posting anything of significance here any longer. And I will keep repeating this until there are real changes, which I frankly do not expect.

[zappaman]

30. Wow.

This thread didn't go too well, did it?

[Rex]

102. This thread went a lot better then his others!

Looks like ALL CAPS has invaded his body. I think we see a total failsauce in progress.

[CreekDog]

117. i guess so because he left for good

again.

[Starry Messenger]

33. It's like the old joke goes...

"Ah, tell ya man! This pub, this very pub we're just sitting in. I built it, with me own hands! But do they call me the Pubmaker? Naa! See the wall over there, that protects our town? I built it, with me own hands! But do they call me the Wallmaker? And the bridge, you know, that crosses our river, I built it, with me own hands! But do they call me the Bridgemaker?
But I tell ya, man! YOU FUCK ONE GOAT!"

[Capt. Obvious]

34. I just sent this to the GP

I like being the fifth vote.

[scarletwoman]

36. There is a lot of sheer ugliness in this thread.

To BWB - I probably don't agree with many of your posts, but I am absolutely sickened by the bullying tenor of so many of the comments on this thread. Nasty people who get off on pecking another DUer bloody.

I'm very sorry to see this shameful crap - and it certainly proves your point about "schoolyard bullies".

[Capt. Obvious]

37. You're needed

in about 17 threads on page one.

[scarletwoman]

39. There are just too damn many Orcs on DU these days, and I'm no Gandolf.

They have no shame. Every time I see one of these in a post - it's another damn Orc.

[ProSense]

41. Well,

To BWB - I probably don't agree with many of your posts, but I am absolutely sickened by the bullying tenor of so many of the comments on this thread. Nasty people who get off on pecking another DUer bloody.

I'm very sorry to see this shameful crap - and it certainly proves your point about "schoolyard bullies".

...a lot of those posts helped to create the atmosphere. I could link to a least a half a dozen direct personal attacks of "nasty people who get off on pecking another DUer bloody."

[scarletwoman]

43. Please don't bother. I've read plenty of your posts. (nt)

[Capt. Obvious]

44. She offered you links

That's unlike her.

[ProSense]

46. See, you're helping to change the atmosphere, right? n/t

[ProSense]

45. The weren't my "posts." They were OPs about me.

Or are "nasty people who get off on pecking another DUer bloody" appropriate for some people?

[Bjorn Against]

65. Well you did not seem to think it was inappropriate when you made an OP pecking another DUer

Can you say hypocrisy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734785

[ProSense]

70. That OP addressed specific and vile name calling. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

73. Make all the excuses you want, your post was vile

You seem to thank it is OK when you make a thread that compares a respected DUer to a right-wing racist, but you don't seem to think it is OK when others make OPs about you. Pure hypocrisy.

[ProSense]

80. You misunderstood

"Make all the excuses you want, your post was vile You seem to thank it is OK when you make a thread that compares a respected DUer to a right-wing racist, but you don't seem to think it is OK when others make OPs about you. Pure hypocrisy."

...I made no "excuses." It appears that you are upset that vile name calling was criticized, and are using it to condone random personal attacks. That is "pure hypocrisy."

Unlike your reaction to the OP denouncing vile name calling, I simply laugh off random personal attacks designed to intimidate, promote inuendo and mock. Those said more about the OPs than me.

My OP criticizing vile name calling struck a nerve because people were attempting to excuse it in a specific context, only to find themselves having to attempt to defend it when it continued.

[Bjorn Against]

87. Everyone can see the vile personal attack you made against Will

It was quite clearly a personal attack no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise, there was no misunderstanding of your words on my part.

[ProSense]

92. That's

"It was quite clearly a personal attack no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise, there was no misunderstanding of your words on my part.

...nonsense, and yes, "everyone can see" that the OP was criticizing vile name calling: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734785

[Sarah Ibarruri]

75. OH! So you believe it's perfectly all right to trash the president?

The same way Repugnicans do?

I see it's same shit/different day, huh?

[Bjorn Against]

76. Don't put words in my mouth.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

81. Too late. I saw your post and link before you edited them. nt

[Bjorn Against]

83. I never edited my posts

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. I should've copied it so I could post it in here. Bye. nt

[Bjorn Against]

91. I can prove I did not edit it

If you click on my post and look at the very bottom of the page it shows the edit history:

Edit History

This post has been edited 0 times.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4773229

Stop lying and claiming I edited my post, edit histories are public DU so you are not going to get away with lying about what I said and then falsely claiming I edited it.

[Eleanors38]

49. Who-WEE! You're tellin' me. Cock-struttin' & nut-husslin.'

Rewarded and enabled.

[CreekDog]

42. the dog was chained when it was shot

let bygones be bygones though, right?

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022831503#post53

[petronius]

53. I agree, well said. "Bullying tenor" is an apt description, and unfortunately this

is not the only DU example of such interaction and behavior...

[scarletwoman]

55. Antidote here:

Rise

[petronius]

63. Thank you! That is an excellent OP... (nt)

[Bonobo]

107. Scarletwoman, you speak for me. nt

[1000words]

110. Thanks for calling it out, scarletwoman

I wouldn't have done it with such class.

[1000words]

51. There are mortgages to pay, mouths to feed.

This site hasn't been "underground" for quite some time.

[Junkdrawer]

85. The PTB saw what was happening on the old DU too....

Their answer:

Itch Powder

[morningfog]

94. So long, Bob. You look to be in final stage flame out.

[flvegan]

103. Best thread ever. Dog killer.

Yep, got posts hidden because of that accusation, albeit well-founded. Not happening tonight, animal abuser.

You did it, admitted it, bragged about it. Offered pictures. I'd say you were one sick fucking twist if it wouldn't get hidden. So I won't.

See how this works? You get to drag it around like Samsonite.

[TroglodyteScholar]

114. You have the ability to ignore this member.

Stalking someone on DU isn't just childish, it harms the whole community. Note that the "leave it alone" jurors don't comment on their votes (I can only assume because their votes are indefensible):

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:35 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: stop with the personal attack bullshit
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I've heard enough about this dog business. Endlessly chasing him around about it is bullying at this point.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Stalking people on DU isn't helpful. Do you have anything to say about the actual post you responded to?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

This behavior is a perfect illustration of how DU has lost its way. Why don't the cyberbullies all just grow up or go away?

[CreekDog]

118. the OP posted a thread in GD

a regular member of DU responded to it.

THAT'S NOT STALKING.

[Bonobo]

119. No, that wasn't a response.

It was something else.

[Rex]

105. Dispatch we have a failsauce in progress.

Yes, total flameout please advise.

[Cali_Democrat]

109. Okay...this thread is EPIC

[Junkdrawer]

111. A post saying "DU3 is nothing but a bunch of bullies trying to win the playground fight."

Is mocked and attacked by _______ trying to win the playground fight.

And you expected......