So if they strike down the mandate then why should I be forced to pay Federal taxes and SS taxes

[bigdarryl]

It's the same concept I think if they strike the mandate down the rethugs are opening up a can of worms and this might come back to bite them in the ass there's a lot of things the Federal Government forces us to do

[PoliticAverse]

1. Because paying taxes differs from forcing everyone to buy insurance from a private company ? n/t

[sabrina 1]

2. No it's not. You are not paying those taxes to a Private Corp.

The Government has the right to 'levy taxes' as in the Constitution. But it has no right to force people to buy a commodity from a private Corporation.

However, I don't believe the SC will strike this down. It's good for the Private Ins. Ind. and therefore the Corporate SC will probably find a way to let it stay.

[Ikonoklast]

11. Forcing individuals to purchase from a private organization has already been deemed constitutional.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

Militia Act of 1792,
Second Congress, Session I. Chapter XXVIII
Passed May 2, 1792

From: http://constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

[sabrina 1]

16. What was the name of the Corporation that profited from this?

President Obama on why he disagreed with Hillary Clinton's support for Mandated Insurance:

“Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it,” Obama said in a Feb. 28, 2008 appearance on Ellen DeGeneres' television show. “So, I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy health care that I’m not insuring everybody. Well, if things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t."

[orwell]

3. The argument is...

...that SS and Medicare are federally run programs. There are funded by the taxing authority of the Feds.

The individual mandate is to be paid directly to private insurers. Thus, the argument goes, this is a new type of arrangement on the Federal level since the government does not provide the benefit and money only accrues to the government in the form of penalty if you refuse to buy insurance.

[truedelphi]

8. And some people who are using that argument are going on to say that if

Congress wanted to make sure that mandates for health insurance were not over turned, the thing to have done was to have created a Single Payer Universal Health Care situation. And then to raise taxes to cover said situation.

This SPUHC plan was advocated by a young man running for the Senate seat, state of Illinois, back in 2004. I have no idea what happened to him - he was full of fire and passion about there being Single Payer Universal HC. Sounded like if he ever got elected, he'd make SPUHC a priority

He said at the time that all it would take would be for a Dem majority in both houses, and a Democrat in the WH.

[RebelOne]

9. You will be thankful when it is time for you to retire,

that you were forced to pay into Social Security and Medicare. I know I am.

[orwell]

21. You misunderstand me...

...I am not a proponent of the argument. I am just conveying it as a reply to the poster.

I would prefer a universal Medicare system funded by taxation, not by employers.

[uponit7771]

4. ...or car insurance either, the Justices aren't qaulifying some of their statements and

...it leaves it wide open to interpretation.

[truedelphi]

5. Actually since the amendment that proposed for our paying Federal Taxes

On income was never ratified, there is no legal reason to pay Federal income taxes.

However, if you attempt to not pay, and the IRS notices you don't and you make more than the top amount for the Head of Household exemption, you will have your property seized, and your home possessed etc.

[asjr]

6. I am pissed at the way the media is playing

this. According to them things are not going well for us. I was not aware the reporters and journalists were clairvoyant. They might have told us before so we could be prepared. And the news comes from some reporters I had thought could think for themselves and not hype the Republican stance that things seem to be on the other side.

[earthside]

7. There's a big difference.

The Obama administration claims that the mandate is constitutional because of the interstate commerce clause ... hey, insurance is business.

But federal taxes and Social Security are government programs ... it is not business, it is government.

Frankly, I think the ACA is on thin ground with this mandate for individuals to purchase a service (insurance) from private corporations.

This is why a public plan option was important; it is why single-payer is really the only way to go -- like Social Security and Medicare, they are undoubtedly constitutional.

I think this thing is going down because I think the mandate in its current form is wrong and unconstitutional. I just hope that the Democrats in the U.S. Senate (if they keep control next year) will get rid of the filibuster rule so that Pres. Obama and a new majority in the House can pass 'Medicare for All'.

[obey]

10. I have a feeling that many of "them" would agree with you

on those two points. Maybe "they" hope to open that can-o-worms.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Then have the federal govt administer the insurance program

Oh wait. Doesn't the fed govt admin in a way when they require it? To be clearer just include it with Medicare for all.

[saras]

13. If there were a collection of nonprofit and coop insurers, it might be a different game.

[TheKentuckian]

14. No, the government is actually granted the authority to tax.

The authority to penalize inactivity in private commerce is a much less clear matter. The authority to dictate employers actually select the product of said commerce but you be obligated to pay for it is yet another.

Have no fear , the composition of the court makes upholding the trash a near lock.

I figure it is upheld like 7-2 or 6-3, the most rabid anti-commerce clause types may go all in and go against (knowing there is no risk of actually hurting the cartel's profitability over the coming decades). None of the liberals seem likely to rule against Federal power.

I might be surprised and they strike it down but partisan opposition and ideological opposition are not the same thing.

If you're mad that Congress didn't make it a tax then be mad at the weaselly, triangulating fucks that chose to go with a fine so they could claim not to raise taxes and making people be responsible.
Further, go ahead and be in a puff that they didn't fund the whole deal with taxes and get us out of this rat race to destruction but don't me upset at anyone else that playing semantic games results in a re-edit that can't be passed right now.

[marsis]

15. If Obama had taken off the pink tutu

and fought for single payer this would be a moot point.
Caving in to these right-wing thugs got him where again(?)........, oh yeah and guess what, they'll NEVER like the black man.
I am so over Barrack but will be forced to vote for him, what a system.

[girl gone mad]

17. Those are government run programs..

strictly regulated.

It's a lot harder to swallow the idea of making healthy young people, who are already struggling under mountains of debt and high unemployment, hand over part of their income to millionaire health insurance executives in exchange for a promise that the insurers aren't even required to keep.

[stevenleser]

20. Except that isnt the argument Republicans are making here. nt

[stevenleser]

18. You are making their argument for them. They dont believe you should have to pay those

Aside from around 1/3rd of what you pay now in order to pay for defense, they believe that all of the other things the federal government does should be stopped.

They would love to cancel or privatize Social Security, Medicare, etc.

[Matariki]

19. logic fail.