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Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:12 PM

How I Can Like Both Obama and Snowden at the Same Time and My Head Does Not Explode

Divide and Conquer is the GOP's favorite tool. They use it to pit one labor group---say Latinos---against another---say Irish--against another---say women---against another---say Blacks. The message is "Sorry guys, I have to pay you shit wages and give you no benefits because those____ will work for so little. It ain't my fault. Blame the _____."

In politics, it happens when people who are basically like minded get distracted with infighting. As in

"I'm vegetarian but I drink milk."

"Shame on you! Only a strict vegan can call itself vegetarian. Heretic!"

There is nothing wrong with having a playful debate with your friends and colleagues. It's good fun, and it sharpens the debate skills for when you really need them---when you have to talk to some right wing a-hole whose idea of debate is to cut you off at a gazillion decibels so that you can not get heard. But please remember, the other side has a point, too. And everyone is right on this one and everyone is wrong.

I like Obama because he is a strong commander in chief who will keep me safe.

I like Snowden, because he is protecting our right against unlawful search.

In a big world like ours, we get along because lots of different people take stands and then they work in opposition to others who take stands that appear to be opposing but in fact they are part of a balancing act. Sort of like good cop, bad cop. Obama has a role to play. In his heart of heart, he wants us to be free from unlawful search too but he has to keep us safe. Snowden wants us safe, too, but that's not his job.

If you think of each man in terms of what he DOES and not what he represents, it gets easier. I had to come to terms with these things young. When I was 8, living in Austin, all my Mom's civil rights friends loved LBJ. And all her UT male draft age friends hated LBJ---hated him so much they were running off to Canada and chopping off their toes to avoid going to VietNam. Same man. Two different things he was doing. I remember talking about it will my third grade teacher. That conversation helped a lot over the years. I feel for the conflicted LBJ, trying so hard to do the right thing in a country where it is never easy to do the right thing all of the time for everyone. Juggling civil liberties and safety is touch. I challenge anyone to do it better than Obama.

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply How I Can Like Both Obama and Snowden at the Same Time and My Head Does Not Explode (Original post)
McCamy Taylor Apr 2014 OP
ProSense Apr 2014 #1
McCamy Taylor Apr 2014 #8
ProSense Apr 2014 #10
Rex Apr 2014 #2
Autumn Apr 2014 #5
arely staircase Apr 2014 #3
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #4
emulatorloo Apr 2014 #6
2pooped2pop Apr 2014 #7
hughee99 Apr 2014 #9
RainDog Apr 2014 #11

Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:20 PM

1. It's also

"I like Obama because he is a strong commander in chief who will keep me safe.

I like Snowden, because he is protecting our right against unlawful search. "

...possible to condemn Snowden and oppose NSA overreach, and not have it equated to liking or disliking Obama or Snowden.

Senator Blumenthal: prosecute Snowden, overhaul FISA courts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023425884

Rep. John Lewis: "NO PRAISE FOR SNOWDEN-Reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908


“What Mr. Snowden did is treason, was high crimes, and there is nothing in what we say that justifies what he did,” said Richard Clarke, a former White House counter-terrorism advisor and current ABC News contributor. “Whether or not this panel would have been created anyway, I don’t know, but I don’t think anything that I’ve learned justifies the treasonous acts of Mr. Snowden.”

From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.

Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.

His actions since then have only made the situation worse.

Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550

Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden.

What's that line thrown out whenever Greenwald is criticized: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?

Snowden's question and op-ed were attempts to whitewash Russian spying by equating it to the NSA.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024843557

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 03:54 PM

8. ProSense! Do you ever sleep! Take care of yourself.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:25 PM

2. Yeah well some around here only know how to do binary thinking.

 

Multitasking alludes their very presence. Then there are the few that will never talk issues, only personalities. Obvious agenda there.

The NSA got caught breaking the law, the CIA got caught breaking the law...I like Obama, I am wary of Snowden. These many points are impossible for authority types. They have a narrative to maintain no matter what.

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Response to Rex (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:39 PM

5. I like Snowden, I like Obama.

I don't think I like the CIA, the NSA or the KGB.

I also like pot infused cheesecake but not the candy.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:28 PM

3. I like Obama. I don't like Snowden

I am glad Snowden shined a spotlight on the telephone metadata collection and it looks like his actions have pressured Obama enough to stop it. However, Snowden betrayed the same country he helped when he fled to China and told them how the NSA spied on them. I want the NSA spying on China that is part of their legitimate job. Snowden is now making anti-American propaganda for a tyrant. Snowden had a chance to be a hero but he chose to be a pawn for Russia and a spy for the Chinese (maybe for the Russians too) who also did a good thing for his country.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:30 PM

4. I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice. Albert Camus

 

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:39 PM

6. Because you are rational and can hold more than one thought in your head

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:40 PM

7. u can't be 100% agreeable with everything any one person does, says, or is.

 

That would be so boring. This leaves room to appreciate aspects of two things you deem opposites.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 04:03 PM

9. You just need to convince yourself that President Obama has no knowledge of

the NSA's activities or any authority over them. It takes some work and buying into some somewhat unbelievable stuff, but I think that's the only way to get there.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:29 PM

11. I don't see that support for Obama conflicts

with an unwillingness to condemn Snowden - the NSA exists apart from both parties, and has since its inception.

Many liberals, including Democrats in office, have expressed concerns about overreach from intelligence agencies across decades.

I think, since 9-11, the U.S. has veered toward greater encroachment upon individual privacy - and often times nations need correctives to immediate responses after an event of such magnitude for its citizens.

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