For DUers who haven't lived somewhere with toll roads, technologies have advanced

[MohRokTah]

You don't have to stop at toll booths, it's called open road tolling.

[LittleBlue]

1. And that's fantastic

if you don't make minimum wage.

But no, I'm happy. The the government can electronically collect tolls from people who can't afford to pay. So we can subsidize lower taxes for billionaires. Yay

[Lars39]

3. Love the gif!

[LittleBlue]

11. Colbert can always express

the way we feel inside.

[Lars39]

14. Oh,yes! :-)

[Bobbie Jo]

22. Oh yeah

Speaking of minimum wage....

Currently sitting on Boehner's desk to rot, alongside unemployment insurance.



So yeah, let's throw a fit over the prospect of toll roads.

[laundry_queen]

86. Spot on. Perfect gif as well. nt

[frylock]

106. word

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. and raising gas taxes doesn't effect the poor?

[backscatter712]

2. We have those at the tollways in Colorado.

For the most part, that's E-470/C-470, the highway that has mostly ringed the Denver metro area.

The electronic RFID toll collection devices are also used in the HOV/Lexus lanes.

[SomethingFishy]

9. I have gotten 2 tickets on 470

because I don't have the RFID pass and they don't man the tolls so if you don't have change you can't pay. Then they hit you with a $50 ticket.

It's a scam and I refuse to drive those roads anymore. I'll take the long way to the airport, thanks.

[backscatter712]

34. Didn't that change recently?

Nowdays, if you don't have the RFID pass, the automated readers use a camera to read your license plate.

In Colorado, at least today, rather than sending you a ticket, they send you a bill to pay the tolls. The toll rates are higher if you don't use the RFID pass.

[SomethingFishy]

52. It may have, this was a couple years ago and I don't

take 470 anymore because of the tickets

I hope they did change it, I'd be happy to pay the actual toll by mail...

[sir pball]

142. They've been rolling that out in NYC.

The Henry Hudson Bridge has had gateless tolling for a couple of years; it works exactly like that. You get a bill for $2.50 instead of $52.50, I'm not sure if it was actual fairness on the part of the MTA or just logistics, it would have been a nightmare to try and segregate traffic on that tiny bridge.

I do think tolls are going to be the New Way; a lot of people are just screaming "raise the gas tax instead!" even as I'm seeing more and more Teslas around the city. Logic fail right there.

[Codeine]

4. Fabulous. I still can't afford it. nt

[Throd]

5. Same shit on a different platter.

[JoePhilly]

6. If your state's Senators won't vote for infrastructure funds, this is what happens.

The costs for your state's part of the interstate, come back to your state, in the form of tolls.

[Laelth]

57. So, the Democratic Party should commit political suicide just to spite Red State voters?

That makes no sense to me. And believe me, these new toll booths will spell political doom for Democrats in states where people are not accustomed to paying tolls to use the Interstate Highway System.

I can not believe that Democrats are supporting this plan. In fact, it shocks me that it's even being considered.

-Laelth

[JoePhilly]

61. How many Democratic Senators support it?

How many Republican Senators?

[Laelth]

63. I don't know. n/t

-Laelth

[themaguffin]

154. It's going to be more common & has nothing to do with Dems, but GOP who won't raise taxes

to fund roads.

Get used to it.

[bluedigger]

7. Technology is awesome.

Now I can have my tolls directly taken from my McDonald's pay card to the state. I never have to see my money at all.

[upaloopa]

8. We already pay for the roads. We pay federal tax

with gasoline and with our tax return.
The reason for the toll roads is because we can't get an infrastructure bill passed.
The fed government can borrow at zero interest from the Fed. Put that money into an infrastructure bank. Take that money and pay private companies to rebuild the roads paying workers at least $10.10 an hour. It fixes the roads and creates jobs.
New tolls only pay a private company our dollars and does not create jobs.

[hlthe2b]

12. EXACTLY^^^

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. ......

The fed government can borrow at zero interest from the Fed.

Sorry, but....


I might ask where you got that notion, but I'm not sure I really care.

[Atman]

35. I took three dollars from my left pocket...

...put it in my right pocket. I got a 100% ROI to my right pocket!

BRILLIANT!!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

53. I don't think I want to know.

[upaloopa]

82. National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank

Obama suggested that the Bank would borrow US$60 billion of federal funding to invest in infrastructure over 10 years, while leveraging "up to $500 billion" of private investment.[





The original proposed legislation states that the "Bank" is actually "an independent establishment of the Federal Government, as defined in section 104 of Title 5, United States Code."[3]

[A HERETIC I AM]

138. You said......

The fed government can borrow at zero interest from the Fed."

I laughed because that is patently untrue.

Your post above is an entirely different matter.

[upaloopa]

140. What ever

[Aerows]

114. My thoughts exactly!

What in the hell do we pay gasoline tax for? This is just another grab by the 1%. "We can't afford to repair roads, but we sure as hell can afford to enforce gas taxes!!!"

Ridiculous for any number of reasons.

[hlthe2b]

10. And it is possible to be charged without even knowing it--receiving a bill in your mail--

based on your license plate registration. So, if you lend your car to anyone--beware. You could be out quite a bit of $$ from someone who unknowingly (or knowingly) hops on a toll road thinking it was not active because there were no functional toll booths and there really is no posting letting them know that is the case when they enter. I know MANY here in Colorado who have learned the hard way. And, if you ignore those bills, thinking they are in error which you'll address another day, you may find yourself owing some big late fees on top.

[Atman]

38. Driven in Florida lately?

Many exits have unmanned toll booths. If you don't have two quarters to pay the toll, what do you do? If you run the toll, two things will happen: if it's a rental car, you'll get a $10 charge to activate the on-board Sun Pass, plus $2.50 a day service fee, plus the cost of the toll. If you don't have a Sun Pass, your license plate is snapped and you get a bill for about $50.


Gotta love those private highways! You already paid for them, but some douche bag politician sold them off to his brother's cousin's uncle.

[Mika]

72. Evidently, you haven't ...

... recently.

All-Electronic Tolling... Locations and Toll Rates
http://www.floridasturnpike.com/all-electronictolling/LocationAndTollRates.cfm

Florida Sunpass Toll by Plate - Rental Cars
https://www.tollbyplate.com/rentalcar
TOLL-BY-PLATE tolls are billed monthly, plus a $2.50 administrative charge

[hr]

Not a fan of privatization myself, but your info isn't correct.

[Atman]

80. Well, yeah... a couple of months ago...

Family lives there. I grew up there. We travel there frequently. But what do I know?

[Lurks Often]

13. I SO love the government tracking where & when I drive on the interstates

or not.

[pipi_k]

27. OTOH...

on the off chance that you were ever falsely accused of some crime, technology is pretty cool.

Like the guy some time back who was accused of committing a crime. He claimed he was at a football game.

Someone investigated tape of the spectators in the stadium, and lo and behold! There he was, at the football game, just like he said!

If not for that, he might have gone to prison for a long time.


If he ever slammed technology before, I'll bet he doesn't now.

[kcr]

15. Oh, well. Okay then.

Guess that makes privatizing our roads so much better

[itsrobert]

16. And if you are out of state and you are confused a little

They will take a picture of your plate and track you down and threaten you with a fine.

[Glitterati]

17. Doesn't work for most

Here in GA we had a toll section of GA400 with EZPass. There were 2 lanes for EZPass cars and 15 lanes for those who had to stop, dig out the 50 cent toll and continue on.

Guess which lanes were backed up for miles?

[bunnies]

23. Sounds like a bad design.

We don't even have to slow down through ours. But we have plenty of EZPass lanes.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Anyone who votes for this will never get a vote from me.

it is that simple. I hate those toll roads, we pay high fuel taxes and that's how it should be done.
Go sell this to the right wing, it is the sort of thing they'd love.

[Codeine]

19. "Open road" and "tolling"; an oxymoron if ever

there was one.

[betterdemsonly]

20. It is worse

In Texas people end up on toll roads without realizing it and then bills show up in the mail.

[tammywammy]

26. Based on the tollroads around here

You'd have to seriously not be paying attention to the signs if you accidentally end up on a tollway. They say toll all over the place. If you're on a road that turns into a tollway, there's clear signage for "Last Free Exit".

[kentauros]

32. I concur.

Plus, most people know exactly where the tollways are and plan their routes accordingly (usually for avoiding the tollway, unless it's the only route.) And most of the tollways here have free feeder roads.

This one seems to have a massive bone to pick with Texas and is constantly exaggerating what little they know of the state.

[betterdemsonly]

36. So having to take the long way home

makes Tx so damn nice live in if you poor. No it isn't a bone to pick with Tx. It is with Texas economics. I hated California when it was Reaganland. I am a disabled uninsured women. Can you really recommend Tx for someone like me. Her personal experiences as a middle class or wealthy texan don't over-ride those of others in the state. She seems to be following me around by the way.

[kentauros]

74. I would recommend whichever state you personally enjoy the most.

And to avoid crapping all over the ones you don't. Personally, I don't hate any particular state. They all have their problems, and I don't go out seeking to learn which ones are "worse" than the others. No problem complaining about things they may do, but they are still Home to many Liberals, no matter how you may feel about their state as a whole. That's how I look at it. Find the state that is best for you and see if anyone on DU would be willing to help you move there. If you do live here in Texas, then it seems you would be much happier in the state of your choice. We don't seem to be it in any way, shape, or form.

[betterdemsonly]

76. Your governor trashes California

as unfriendly to business. You have no problem with this. Why are they unfriendly. Well they have too many environmental regulations and their employees have too many rights, and the taxes are too high on the rich. The business men gaming this to reduce regulations and rights for everyone in all states, and if I say something I am trashing Texas and offending Texas liberals. Trouble is, if they aren't concerned about the environment, or Labor or the middle class there isn't much liberal about them.

[kentauros]

81. I go by how and what people say around here.

You've been focused on all the negatives about my Home, with never anything positive to state. And don't put words in my mouth, so to speak. I see you've edited this so I'll address your newest message.

Go ahead and search on my username and find out exactly how I feel about my "governor" and whom I'd like to vote for instead. Have a look in the Texas forum to start. I'm trying to be diplomatic here, though it's difficult when folks second-guess me without having been here long enough to have observed my "posting-life" on DU.

I've said absolutely nothing about California, good or bad (although, back in 2009, when I had to go through LAX, I found it to be the least-advanced airport I'd ever seen, though I know residents are trying to update it.) So again, don't state what I haven't said. I mentioned that you seemed to have a massive bone to pick with Texas strictly from observing your posts here so far. And they are still coming across that way.

[betterdemsonly]

83. My post was about the problem with deregulation and antilabor views

about jobs poaching from states with more labor protections to states with less labor protections. How states are being pressured to reduce environmental and labor standards, because of it, and your governor was a main offender. Texas was obviously the example. It was not an essay about the merits of Texas. It was about labor arbitrage and how this hurts the middle class. You and tammywammy made it a Texas thing. Niether of you could make the case that these things didn't happen. You just made the case that it wasn't that bad, or not happening to you personally. That completely misses the point, and turns it into Cal vs Tx boosting.

[kentauros]

84. I did nothing of the sort,

and would ask that if you still believe that way, that you post links to posts where I supposedly said as much.

You continue to say what I have never said, state whom I do not support, and are generally doing your best to get me to put you on ignore. I will not do that, because I'd rather you apologize for even inferring I support pRick Perry or any of his actions.

I love my state. Yet you don't seem to understand that doesn't mean that I love the people in my government.

[betterdemsonly]

85. Why don't you post a link where I just bashed texas

but didn't talk about the environment, labor or women's rights, or was in a thread that wasn't discussing those things.

I don't know what I am supposed to apologize for.

[kentauros]

92. Well, if you insist:

22. The price of car insurance is much higher in Tx
as are sales taxes so it won't be good for lower wage workers at all. The uninsured rate is high. There is no place to get birth control unless you are insured. There is no zoning so another explosion such as the sort that happened in West can happen again. The schools in Texas are bad unless you can afford private schools. Even in localities where they are good, science classes will likely teach creationism, and history classes will likely teach Dan Barton's revisionism.
(Major hyperbole over the entire post.)

18. I don't care about Texas or California
I care about states not getting rewarded for degraded environmental, labor standards, women's rights. Those conditions are all horrible in Texas and there is no hope they will ever improve, because of gerrymandering. All states will will eliminate, labor and environmental standards, and will gut women's rights to compete with Texas. That is awful for all non elites.

26. Pretty skeptical of that
If there is any social progress some state will undercut Texas in medievalism. They'd move to Mississippi or something.

27. I don't think that is nearly as awful as getting blown up
or not being able to use birth control.
(The post-title is the hyperbolic bashing part, as if "getting blown up" is a danger in every single part of the state.)

111. It is still in a republican state
and republican ideas are rewarded by the move. So everyone will have to imitate republicans and get rid of unions, minimum wage, zoning laws, and women's rights. Everything business finds inconvenient must go. Child labor laws, sexual harassment laws. All taxes, you name it. We all must elect Rick Friggen Perry, or somebody like him! Race to the bottom! Run faster!
(More hyperbolic bashing and unfounded assumptions about the population.)

The way you say things comes across loud and clear to most as bashing. If that's not your intent, then you need to take more time to parse your thoughts and word it without the hyperbole. You appear to be good at understanding the political problems, yet not so accomplished at avoiding the broad-brush, which is against DU's rules.

The apology I would like is for the totally unfounded stating of what I believe and whom I support in my government. You do not know me, yet seem content to say that I support pRick Perry and all the other repubs in Texas. I don't understand your logic in coming to those conclusions, yet your posts (edited or not, as there's a record of each version) have jumped to them several times so far.

[betterdemsonly]

93. I don't get it

Your just mad cause I find fault with Texas irrespective of whether my claims are true, and don't care about my concerns.

Go ahead and ignore me, if you can't handle it .

[kentauros]

94. If your claims aren't true, then you need to make corrections,

otherwise, it's bashing. I don't know how to be more clear.

Stating that I support the repubs in my state is a major insult, same as it would be for anyone anywhere else on this board. I don't know how to be more clear about that, either.

[betterdemsonly]

95. Where did I say you supported republicans?

which of my claims aren't true?

[kentauros]

100. Sigh.

Do you even read your own posts before making them? (like for proof-reading)

93. I don't get it
Your just mad cause I find fault with Texas irrespective of whether my claims are true, and don't care about my concerns.
Go ahead and ignore me, if you can't handle it.

95. Where did I say your supported republicans?

76. Your governor trashes California
as unfriendly to business. You have no problem with this. Why are they unfriendly. Well they have too many environmental regulations and their employees have too many rights, and the taxes are too high on the rich. The business men gaming this to reduce regulations and rights for everyone in all states, and if I say something I am trashing Texas and offending Texas liberals. Trouble is, if they aren't concerned about the environment, or Labor or the middle class their isn't much liberal about them.
(No, you don't state outright that we support repubs, but you infer it, twice in this post.)

111. It is still in a republican state
and republican ideas are rewarded by the move. So everyone will have to imitate republicans and get rid of unions, minimum wage, zoning laws, and women's rights. Everything business finds inconvenient must go. Child labor laws, sexual harassment laws. All taxes, you name it. We all must elect Rick Friggen Perry, or somebody like him! Race to the bottom! Run faster!
(Again, back to this hyperbolic post, stating that we'll have to be like republicans if we want to continue to live here.)

Okay, I'm off to get something to eat, mostly because I'm tired of reiterating your own posts back to you. Perhaps you can go click on your "My Posts" tab and reread what you've written, pick out the hyperbole, and learn how to communicate without it. You'll go much further on this site that way.

[betterdemsonly]

103. I would say you are the one inferring

since saying someone is not liberal is not the same as saying they support Republicans. Democrats are often very conservative, particularly on economics, particularly if they admire new Dems like Bill Clinton.

As for your last inference. You might also infer I am saying that this promotion of arbitrage means, we all must support Rick Perry's policies to get jobs to come back to blue states, which would have been a correct one.

I stand by every last think I said. If you think you will make me feel guilt by reposting my stuff. You are wrong.

State boosterism is never liberal anymore than nationalism.

[tammywammy]

107. I'm not following you around.

You've just happened to post incorrect information and I've corrected you. I'm fact biased. And I've never discussed my income on DU, but I'll tell you I'm an administrative assistant that's in graduate school. Thankfully my employer had tuition reimbursement which covers the majority of my tuition and books.

I just happen to drive by a toll road every work day (drive by, I don't use it).

BTW, threads about Texas tend to draw in Texan DUers. Shocking.

[jberryhill]

49. It's kind of a gotcha around the airport in Dallas

I live in the Northeast and agree that toll roads are clearly demarcated around here.

I went to Dallas to speak at a legal conference, and it seems like there is a scheme between the rental companies and whomever is designating the toll road sections, because if there is some way to get to the rental return without using one (having decided not to use their overpriced electronic payment device rental system, and even having set my GPS to "avoid toll roads&quot , then I'll be danged if I could find it.

[snooper2]

67. you take 35N to 635West...easy peasy :)

[kentauros]

69. Well, I can understand that with Dallas.

The few times I've visited, I found the freeway signage to be the worst I've ever had the misfortune to experience. Whereas, I have to deal with idiot drivers in Houston that ignore the two miles of advanced warning only to suddenly realize they're in the wrong lane for exiting or not exiting.

Maybe Dallas has improved the advanced warning of what's about to happen in the last couple of decades, but I don't know personally.

The other big problem with Texas tollways is that so many of them are now built and operated by private companies, and not the State of Texas. A recent survey of tollway costs here resulted in us learning that corporate-operated tollways averaged 34-cents per mile, while State-operated tollways averaged 15-cents per mile. So, you can see why Perry went so out of control in making these things.

[Texasgal]

113. Austin is working on making Loop 1

a toll road and it pisses me off.

First off, there are only TWO major highways here in Austin that run North and South. The traffic on both are terrible and have been getting that way for a number of years now. My workplace is just right off Loop 1 in the medical district. I'd love to move closer but 400,000.00 for a 2 bedroom bungalow in a highly prized area is out of the question.

I am a native here and I understand the need for growth, but this toll thing is just another sucker punch to the regular ol' Austinites of this city. Yes. I am angry about the toll issue. GRRRR.

[kentauros]

116. Yeah, I've gotten stuck in rush-hour traffic on MoPac before.

It's worse than the West Loop (Loop 610) at five o'clock!

I don't see where they can even put a tollway down MoPac unless they either bury it or go overhead, neither of which the railroad would approve. Shared lanes will just make the traffic worse.

Again, for those paper-pusher and digital jobs, telecommuting would solve so many of their traffic woes. Not to mention, pollution woes, and increase productivity. But no one seems to want to hear that, and I'm not sure why...

[dionysus]

164. here it's called "last exit before toll" on a humongous sign. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Yay!

[krispos42]

24. It's called a police checkpoint

The government will know exactly when your E-Z Pass goes through a particular checkpoint. And will retain that information indefinitely.


It sucks.


Raise the damn gas tax instead.

[MohRokTah]

25. It's a public frigging road. There is no expectation of privacy on a public frigging road. eom

[krispos42]

121. Which means they have OPTION to do it

I never said they weren't allowed to do it; I'm saying they shouldn't do it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

131. I would suggest you read the Fourth Amendment.

[jberryhill]

51. Which is pretty inefficient in the first place

Compared to ordinary traffic cameras when you have a numbered tag on the back of your car.

Knowing that "an E-Z pass went through a toll" is not even the same as knowing "this car went through a toll", much less "this person went through a toll".

[krispos42]

122. The most efficient method of all is to raise the gas tax

The tax-collection system is already in place. So, just increase the amount taxed.


The alternative you seem to be supporting would require (tens of? Hundreds of?) millions of dollars to build all these toll collection points, millions of more dollars annually maintain them and operate the bureaucracy to bill people... and we would STILL be paying for the current tax-collection system!


Add a fucking nickel to the federal gas tax; it's currently only 18.4 cents.

[MohRokTah]

123. I agree. Now convince the Republcians who control the House.

I'm waiting...

[krispos42]

125. Obama came out for supporting tolls, right?

that should do it!

[MohRokTah]

127. He'd need to threaten to veto any bill that adds funding for infrastructure

Nothing would get the bastards moving faster to fund our roads and bridges.

[whistler162]

159. They already do from the micro tracking beads

they put in all gasoline.

[dionysus]

165. it's the nanomites, man, they're in everything (even the weed)!11!!!1

[seveneyes]

28. Easier to separate people from their hard earned money

There is no plus side to it.

[kentauros]

29. And for those of you that assume because some of us haven't driven in the NE,

that we therefore don't know what modern tollways are like, I give you this:


http://www.texastollways.com/

pRick Perry went "toll happy" not long after becoming resident of the governor's mansion here. My normally free, state-maintained U.S. Highway 290 (it's always been well-maintained without tollway funding) now has a section in Austin that's a tollway. I had to get one of those stupid electronic patch thingies just so I wouldn't get a ticket when I visit my family a few times a year. And so, they're now rebuilding that section and it looks like it'll be as massively overbuilt as the Katy Freeway in Houston (18 lanes wide for those that have never driven here!)

Austin could have avoided all that overbuilt roadway and tollway crap by just insisting more cubicle and office workers telecommute. We could avoid it nationwide if we just doubled the current number telecommuting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/workers-telecommute_n_1228004.html
http://www.globalworkplaceanalytics.com/telecommuting-statistics

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. You don't have to stop at troll booths, it's called open road trolling.

in Liberaliarism nervana

[Atman]

33. Wonderful!

So as long as I have money to deposit I can drive on the roads? Didn't I already pay for those roads via my taxes?

I live in CT, we have no tolls. None. Zero. Nada. I drive to Massachusetts, tolls are everywhere on the turnpike. Fast Lane for people with transponders, but I rarely drive in MA. Why do I need to put a GPS tracking billing device in my car? This is total bullshit. Total, 100% bullshit. I'm glad you think it's "convenient" for you, but we all aren't you. I already paid for the roads. I continue to pay for the roads through gasoline taxes. Now a private company will profit off the roads I already paid for. FUCK THAT.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. Color me crazy, but I don't think waiting at toll booths is the primary concern here.

I'm thinking it's the tolls themselves. But maybe I'm wrong?

[Trajan]

39. Are you implying your own personal support for toll roads?

Or just letting other DUers know they are ignorant?

How helpful!

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I got a far better idea

let's raise the damn fracking taxes on those who obviously insist on not paying them, instead of keeping doing this regressive shit that affects those who really can't afford it.

Oh and I forgot, I thought we all paid taxes to maintain those roads already when we fill a tank.

[MohRokTah]

41. GREAT IDEA!

I'm sure the current Congress will get right on that.



Meanwhile, roads and bridges are crumbling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You put in tolls, you ain't gonna ever get rid of them

or at least in my lifetime

And I know how much they are crumbling.

This is part of the plan... and the Libertarian, damn fracking right wingers are winning.

[MohRokTah]

43. I agree.

How do we stop the crumbling infrastructure with no money?

I need an answer other than opening up the ability of states to make the interstates toll roads.

How do we do it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. At this point, we need the President to issue a few executive orders

that is how you get it going. And I know who controls the purse, so this is a short term measure.

You also need the President, and the democratic party, not that they will do it, to make all this part of campaigning.

I will be brutally honest, I don't believe they want to. Deep down, both parties want the end of the commons. I cover sausage making, so I know that lack of political will usually means, we also want to do it, but damn are afraid to say it.

[MohRokTah]

47. He issued an executive order.

What can he do beyond opening up the ability for states to make interstates toll roads?

Give me the specific executive order he could issue that would move money to the crumbling infrastructure.

I need specifics, not something general, because I damned well know the white house counsel has been working this issue for months and one thing they came up with was an executive order opening up interstates to tolling at the state level.

So give me a specific executive order he could issue to get money to the crumbling infrastructure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. So I give up

this, I concluded a while ago, BOTH parties want to end the commons. Embrace it, and you have

Have a good day. It is NOT my job to give you the text of an EO. He is a lawyer, and has plenty of lawyers on staff.

So let's make all my local interstates toll roads... and watch the economy slow down. In fact, I can't wait.

[MohRokTah]

54. So you have no answer.

Thank goodness the Office of the White House Counsel had at least one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. You want me to give you an answer for which I pay my employees to do

you freaking serious?

You defend this shit. I will not. And what I said about the economy slowing I mean it. I can't wait in fact.

Would you like me to point you in the direction of economic studies and discretionary spending?

[HangOnKids]

46. Nadin gave you an answer obviously you did not like it

Tax the fuckers who are not paying enough taxes. It is simple.

[Rex]

60. Sounds like some pretzel logic to me.

"I love the idea of paying more money to drive on freeways, let us change their name to chargeways! Weeeeeeee!

[hrmjustin]

117. Do you think it is?

I will look into it.

[laundry_queen]

88. +1,000,000 nt

[rudolph the red]

135. There used to be a toll on the Coronado Bridge here in San Diego,

they met their requirements and now it's toll free.

[myrna minx]

87. So because Congress is petulant, we foist the cost burden onto the poor,

the working poor and the middle class - people who are underrepresented and/or *not* represented at all in Congress?

[dilby]

44. Rich stay Rich and the poor get even poorer, what's not to love?

When disposable incomes are so low why not suck every penny you can from families that are just trying to make it. I mean if you can't afford to drive on the roads you should not have a car anyways, am I right?

[hobbit709]

48. Advanced to the point where you can get double or triple billed by misaligned sensors.

[Ikonoklast]

128. SunPass is Florida is currently being sued for that very thing.

They overcharged drivers by millions, refuse to give back any overcharges that are past six months old.


And they were well aware of the problem for years.

[Laelth]

55. It's political suicide for the Democratic Party.

Do we really want to create anger and frustration in the 100+ million Americans who are not accustomed to having to pay tolls to use the Interstate Highway System?

I honestly can not believe that Democrats are taking this proposal seriously.

-Laelth

[MohRokTah]

58. Meanwhile, everybody who drives is having their car damaged on a daily basis due to the roads.

Teh infrastructure is crumbling.

Give me a better answer and remember, this answer must circumvent the Republicans because they WANT the infrastructure to crumble.

[Laelth]

59. There's nothing reasonable that we can do at this time.

I will not accept the "something must be done now" argument, nor will I accept the "something is better than nothing" argument.

There's nothing we can do right now about our crumbling infrastructure that is both reasonable and supported by Republicans. Therefore, the wise course of action is to do nothing.

I can not support a proposal that will cause 100+ million Americans to hate the Democratic Party, and that is exactly what's being proposed, here.

-Laelth

[laundry_queen]

91. If Democrats had any brains at all

They would be shouting from the rooftops about how all these crappy roads are Republicans' fault instead of "well we have to find a way to pay for it so lets institute a regressive user tax". Why on earth would they ENABLE the Republican point of view? All this does is make republicans say, "see? our roads are fine. Infrastructure is fine. Look at how well the market works when left alone!" Meanwhile poor people, heck, lower middle class people, are forced to take the long way home...on crumbling roads. All toll roads do is maintain SOME roads...taxation maintains ALL roads. A 2-tier transportation system is not something Democrats should be hanging their hats on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Read this with the OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4896957

And by the way, lack of political will usually means, we really want to do that, but we know it is not really popular... way too much sausage watching. <------------

So yes, I will say it. BOTH PARTIES want to privatize whatever is not nailed down.

[dionysus]

166. i lost both of my right side hubcaps this year due to potholes... they should basically repave most

of the roads that exist.

raise the gas tax, people say. sure, great idea, splendid. got anywhere near the votes for it?

so, because of congress being douchebags, we need to scrounge money to fix crumbling infrastructure.

since congress won't spend the money, where does it come from? it looks like there's two options here;

1) raise the gas tax
2) create more toll roads.

nobody is going to like EITHER of these ideas. "vote for me, i'll raise the price of gas!!1!!11" is about as much of a winner as "vote for me and pay more tolls!"

but where else are we going to get the money, if congress won't act?

[Rex]

62. So? Okay, so what about people that cannot afford one more additional 'sacrifice'?

When do the Haves get forced to 'sacrifice' for the greater good? Oh right...never...

[etherealtruth]

118. Collateral damage

If one views the impact to the working poor as "collateral damage" ... and the cost of a "free society" ... then it is a great idea.

I really do not think those supporting the idea are financially disadvantaged .... so as long as tremendous sacrifice is born by others ....its a great idea.

[LanternWaste]

64. If it were guaranteed that private companies would not set rates, I'd have little problem with it.

If it were guaranteed that private companies would not set rates (e.g., TX SH 130 run by a concession company), I'd have little problem with it.

[MohRokTah]

65. In Illinois, it's the government that sets the toll rates.

[Glitterati]

68. Not in Georgia. The teapublicans are handing our highways over to private companies.

Toll rates on the I-85 Express Lanes are based on the concept of dynamic pricing.

The pricing for use of the Express Lanes varies between .01 cent and .90 cents per mile based on traffic flow. Ultimately, the price of the I-85 Express Lanes at a specific location and point in time is determined by consumer demand. As demand for use of the Express Lanes increases, the toll amount will rise to ensure that motorists using the Express Lanes will experience a more reliable trip time. As traffic in the Express Lanes decreases, the toll price will also decrease. Rates are recalculated at a configurable time period (minimum of every 5 minutes), 24 hours a day.

Toll rates are displayed at each Express Lanes entry point on changeable message signs (pictured above), allowing drivers to choose whether entering the Express Lanes makes sense for them at any given time. The top rate displayed on the sign is the fee from the upcoming entry point to the next exit, while the bottom rate is the fee from that entry point to the last Express Lanes exit. If a motorist exits in between entry points, the toll rate will be between the two displayed rates. Once a motorist enters at that point, his or her toll rate will not change.
- See more at: http://www.peachpass.com/peach-pass-toll-facilities/i-85-toll-rate-pricing#sthash.gYbqq7Ic.dpuf

[MohRokTah]

70. So the way Illinois does it = right and the way Georgia does it = wrong.

At least we see the difference between it being completely privatized and the government running it.

Of course Chicago screwed up parking meters by entering into a screwed up contract with a private entity.

Any time the government outsources, it gets screwed up. The private sector almost never does these things better than government.

[LanternWaste]

78. But if this goes through, it would be up to each individual state to determine what is right and wha

But if this goes through, it would be up to each individual state to determine what is right and what is wrong.

[Glitterati]

98. They already ARE.

See my posts on Georgia.

[MohRokTah]

109. It's the only way this CAN go through.

Congress would ahve to pass a bill tying federal policy of government running the program to federal highway dollars and again, we are back to convincing Republicans to do anything that is the right thing.

[Niceguy1]

104. and the government had to agree to that

Rate schedule. I have yet to see where the contractor is allowed to set any price they choose at any time.

[Glitterati]

66. Yeah, when that happens, everyone is screwed.

GA turned a one lane section of roadway into a toll road with a private company. The tolls are based on the traffic on the ENTIRE roadway and most days is more than $8.00 to drive 3 miles on this toll section. Yes, I said eight dollars.

[Lars39]

71. Holy crap! $8.00 to drive 3 miles? Truly highway robbery!

[Glitterati]

73. You gotta be crazy to spend that!

For real.

Originally, there was no limit on how much they could charge. When it reached that crazy price, the lanes were completely empty - no one used them.

So, they set a limit on the high end, eventually. But, it still costs nearly a dollar a mile to drive 3 miles.

[Lars39]

75. Still steep. Dang

I could totally see the TN Teabaggin' legislature voting for this.

[Glitterati]

97. All the teabaggin' states are follow the leader states

One enacts some stupid Alec legislation and they all follow.

GA is planning on doing the exact same thing to all the interstates here - without any help from Obama or DEMs. They simply take over the the center divide, build a new lane and charge lots of money to use it. I-75 is next, 575 right after.

[Lars39]

99. Simply infuriating!

Thanks for listing some of their strategies for everyone to see. This stuff is so destructive to society it's truly mind boggling.

[Glitterati]

110. Sorry, but I'm about to make your day worse. No competitive bidding

Yeah, that's the way the law is written.......corruption written in. There are no competitive bids on this garbage, just an opening bid and 90 days for others to try to one up that bid.

Georgia's DOT has long been corrupt - under DEMs and Teapublicans.

[Lars39]

111. omg

No break downs on the bids, just amounts offered? Good grief.

[Glitterati]

112. Yep

Just more reason to fight this garbage.

[Gothmog]

77. I come in on a toll road every day

It is easy to use. The same toll tag is also keyed to my office building parking garage so that I can park without having to open my window

[Bonx]

79. I love tolls so much I sometimes just randomly throw money out the window !!!

[kentauros]

101. Okay, that made me laugh!

[ancianita]

158. spitting out my coffee.....!

[Autumn]

89. Here's what I saw, "it's called open road trolling."

toll troll I'm going to have a problem with this issue. I see r when there is no r

[hrmjustin]

126. .

[Agschmid]

144. Too much time on MIRT...

[Pholus]

90. I guess. Fortunately, the required technology for a GAS TAX is lower.

And costs less to implement.

And doesn't involve corporate scumbag contractors.

And doesn't involve the creation of YET another database of our movements to satisfy some LEO wet dream.

And doesn't involve yet more paperwork.

[MohRokTah]

108. Then get the GOP to increase the gas tax.

Good luck with that.

[Pholus]

115. But they'll hop right on this toll thingie?

Tells you all you need to know about who is gonna actually benefit from the tolls then.

[Lars39]

96. Totally possible for someone *not* internet savvy to go on a long trip

and not know how much was deducted from their checking account until they get their bank statement.

[elleng]

102. Right, and it's certainly here on the east coast.

Hard for me to understand the big fuss. I've been paying for my travel up and down the NE corridor for years. We PAY for our roads.

[frylock]

105. have they advanced to the point where someone making shit wages and driving 50+ miles..

to get to a jobsite isn't affected?

[etherealtruth]

119. I don't think those promoting this scheme ...

... give a rats ass what a burden this would be to the financially disadvantaged. No sacrifice is too great for "those" people.

[etherealtruth]

120. Cross the George Washington Bridge from NJ to NY

.... and get back to me about how toll roads have advanced

[LeftyMom]

129. Interesting how nobody thought this was a good idea for 45 minutes or so until you all

got your talking points and then you all started saying the same thing at once. Certainly separated the people who actually think through the consequences of things from the people who recite their lines.

[jberryhill]

132. Interesting how there were several "toll outrage" threads...

...that all popped up in a short span of time.

[LeftyMom]

133. People responded to something the president said on a political message board? You don't say.

Seriously, you guys were completely radio silent until the hive mind kicked in. It was creepier than normal.

[jberryhill]

134. ...and then people responded to the postings

The fact that more than one person may not see highway tolls as the equivalent of Nazi death camps (seriously posted in one of the toll threads) is not a conspiracy.

[LeftyMom]

136. Sorry guys, the timing gave you away.

I mean, unless it takes you 45 minutes to all come up with the same bad arguments independently.

[jberryhill]

137. Lol

The best part is picking up my big fat check at the end of the month, knowing that you get nothing.

However, since I post using my real name, it's fairly easy to figure out exactly who I am and what I do for a living.

How much of my income do you estimate I make from posting on DU?

[Agschmid]

146. I make about 1k a month, it's pretty cushy.

[jberryhill]

147. Is that your direct pay or your downline percentages

I was told we got 10% for everyone we sign up.

[Agschmid]

148. Whaaaaat!

You got a good deal my sign up commission is only 5.75%!

Who was your recruiter...

[jberryhill]

149. Sid Dithers

But I think he was running a special promotion at the time.

[Agschmid]

150. Must be!

Well that's why we don't talk about pay in the American Workforce... You gonna start a thread about that or should I?

[jberryhill]

153. Not yet

We'll see how things work on with commissions on the interstate tolls.

[SidDithers]

157. It was end of quarter...

I had to make my numbers.



Sid

[Agschmid]

145. Yup.

[JoeyT]

139. Interesting how all the most devoted libertarian-hunters are all

bang alongside the idea of toll roads...Which is exactly how libertarians claim we should pay for infrastructure.

We hate libertarians and their ideas! Until the president promotes them. Then we post every bad argument we can think of in defense of them, and act shocked that people have counters for those arguments, like libertarians didn't come up with those same shitty arguments years ago.

Apparently now you're not a progressive unless you support flat taxes.

[Autumn]

141. Interesting the way that works.

It seems a lot of people are catching on to that.

[neverforget]

130. Sweet! We can pay gas taxes AND tolls! Awesome!

In the future they'll all be privatized so we can pay our corporate overlords even more. Fantastic!

[Agschmid]

143. Mass to go all electronic by 2016...

As the state Department of Transportation gears up to begin implementing all-electronic tolling on the Massachusetts Turnpike and at the Tobin Bridge and Boston Harbor tunnels, two local leaders have mixed views on the project, the Milford Daily News reported.

"Positively, the electronic tolling will help promote efficiencies and safety and hopefully ease some of the traffic congestion," said state Sen. Karen Spilka, D-Ashland.

But Spilka said she also worries it is a sign tolls are here for the long-term on the Pike, something that is concerning especially if tolls are not added to other major roads.

The state Department of Transportation plans to have its first all-electronic tolling system operating on the Tobin Bridge later this year through a $2.47 million project, agency spokesman Michael Verseckes said in an email.

"There will be a period of testing the system to ensure it properly functions before the existing tolling equipment and booths are removed and demolished," Verseckes said.

MassDOT will then convert the Turnpike and harbor tunnels. Those systems are expected to be effective by the summer of 2016.

The equipment and 10 years of maintenance are expected to cost about $120 million. MassDOT also faces a monthly charge totaling an estimated $258 million over 10 years.

"Aside from the estimated cost of converting to the all-electronic system, maintenance of the system and back office operations, MassDOT is expecting to save $50 million annually by eliminating its current cash collection expenses such as payroll and associated benefits, toll plaza facility utilities and upkeep, equipment maintenance and replacement, and toll collection software upgrades," Verseckes said.

The electronic tolling gantries will be installed along the main highway as opposed to exits. The system will read E-ZPass transponders. If a car does not have a transponder, its license plate will be recorded and the person to whom the car is registered will receive a bill in the mail.

http://m.wcvb.com/news/state-gears-up-to-go-allelectronic-on-tolls/25691568

[ismnotwasm]

151. You talking privatized or government run

Out of curiosity? Or either?

[MohRokTah]

156. I'm in Illinois where it is 100% government run.

It works well, though there is talk of automating speeding tickets when the system can calculate you exceeded the speed limit by 20% between two open road toll bars. Since it has a date and time stamp for each toll bar, speed can be calculated accurately.

Illinois also has a brilliant example how technology being outsourced to a third party is disastrous, which would be parking meters in Chicago.

[ancianita]

161. Not in Chicago. The Chicago Skyway and Toll Road were leased in 2004. It took years to improve it.

[Gormy Cuss]

155. The technology is so great that if you have an HOV exemption

you have to remove the transponder and throw it in the glove compartment or some other enclosed space else you'll be charged a toll. Of course, then you need to remember to mount it back on the dash before you reach a toll road without the HOV exception, else...

The technology is so great that if you don't have a transponder mounted on the windshield/dash you'll get charge the toll and an arm and a leg in convenience fees/penalties.

The technology is so great that there will be a database of your movements available with lots of possibilities.

The technology is so great that in the future tolls may be demand based and driving the same stretch of road during rush hour may cost many times more than in off-peak times. If you think that's a good idea, consider that many people who have to travel at peak times will just clog up local roads rather than pay the steep premium.

The technology is great. HOT lanes are the wave of the future.

[ancianita]

160. Do not ask for whom the road tolls. It tolls for thee. And truckers. They are gonna be pissed.

(Couldn't resist.) 10 yrs ago Chicago leased -- I thought it sold it, but maybe not -- the Chicago Skyway and Toll Road around the bottom of Lake Michigan. Tolls have almost doubled, but it's faster than S.R. 80.

[alarimer]

163. Most of the tolls on these roads go to line the pockets of corporations, not to the government.

Some small percentage will be used for maintenance, but most of it will go to dividends and shareholders.