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alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
Thu May 1, 2014, 09:32 PM May 2014

Anybody Cheering the Execution of Clayton Lockett Should be Ashamed

Not because Clayton Lockett was a good dude, obviously. And not even because you should be opposed to the death penalty in general or in this case. There's no shame in supporting the death penalty, so long as you support it in an ethical manner. There's no way to do that in this case.

But if you are in favor of the death penalty, for offenders like Lockett or otherwise, at the very least you have to be concerned with process, procedure, and legality. Established process and procedure and legality are the only things that separate the death penalty from common murder even for death penalty supporters. So even if you hold some insane belief like those I've seen espoused on these very boards - to wit, that the death of the offender should be conducted in the same manner as the death of the victim - even if you hold that completely insane and sadistic belief, even in that case, process and procedure and legality are the only things separating you from the murderer. And the same for any belief less insane than that a fortiori.

And this particular execution did not have a rational process, did not follow the established written procedure, and - given what appears to be the case - is of dubious legality. So let's say you think Clayton Lockett is absolute trash who should have been dispatched with 5 minutes after his guilty verdict by hacksaw and slow poison. Even in that case, you can't support what happened two days ago, because process, procedure, and legality are lacking.

It's actually quite shocking to me that anyone who claims to support democracy and modernity could support this insanity. Even if, and especially if, you are a death penalty supporter, you should be mortified by the complete chaos of process and procedure here.

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Anybody Cheering the Execution of Clayton Lockett Should be Ashamed (Original Post) alcibiades_mystery May 2014 OP
Thank you and well said. n/t PumpkinAle May 2014 #1
Agreed. TreasonousBastard May 2014 #2
There's very few instances when killing another person is ethical Major Nikon May 2014 #3
I guess I'd have to say I'm neutral on the death penalty tularetom May 2014 #4
I am opposed to the death penalty only because Jenoch May 2014 #5
I think it'd be ok for the family of the girl he raped and murderd to celebrate a bit. n/t Skip Intro May 2014 #6
Some background, for those (like me) who have no idea what happened or what this post is about.. Ghost in the Machine May 2014 #7
It's called empathy. It's what separates the Democrats from the Assholes. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #8
Agree entirely Prophet 451 May 2014 #9
There's some serious ugliness in the other thread 1000words May 2014 #10

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
3. There's very few instances when killing another person is ethical
Thu May 1, 2014, 09:48 PM
May 2014

Perhaps if someone is about to kill you or someone else and there's no other alternative. Perhaps if someone is in pain and wants to die and you help them. The death penalty doesn't come within a cab ride of being ethical for a number of reasons. Those who support it should be ashamed. The cheerleaders for Clayton Lockett's execution should be doubly ashamed. The fact that they aren't reveals far more about themselves than they probably realize.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
4. I guess I'd have to say I'm neutral on the death penalty
Thu May 1, 2014, 09:53 PM
May 2014

but I'm definitely and unalterably opposed to the barbarity that took place earlier this week. If we as a people want to keep executing criminals, we should at least learn to do it in a modern and humane fashion.

And we need to be absolutely certain that the people we are executing are actually guilty of the crimes for which they are being executed.

I don't claim to be a DP "supporter", but yes, I'm appalled at the treatment of a human being. The people that killed Mr Lockett are only marginally better than he is IMO.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
5. I am opposed to the death penalty only because
Thu May 1, 2014, 10:00 PM
May 2014

I believe there have been too many people convicted and executed based on eyewitness testimony, crooked prosecutors/police, and a poor defense.

Thia guy seems to have been convicted with enough evidence to be assured of his guilt, but I'm still opposed to the death penalty because of the uncertainty in other cases.

Whomever designed the procedure and process for administering the lethal drugs needs to be held accountable. How could they not find a suitable vein?

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
7. Some background, for those (like me) who have no idea what happened or what this post is about..
Thu May 1, 2014, 11:03 PM
May 2014

I don't watch TV "News" and had to look up who Clayton Lockett was, and what had happened to him. This was first I have heard of this horrendous botched execution and, even though I do support the DP in some cases, this was tragic and inexcusable. They put animals down more humanely!

Jerry Massie, a spokesman for Oklahoma's corrections department, explained to the group of witnesses permitted to watch the procedure that the first drug to be used under the state's new lethal injection protocol would take some time to have its desired effect. “Don't be surprised," he said

{snip}

The process began at at 6.23pm, but Lockett – as we had been warned – did not appear immediately to fall unconscious. Beneath a white sheet pulled to his neck, the restrained prisoner blinked and pursed his lips. At first he looked straight ahead, but after four minutes, he turned towards the witness area. By 6.30pm, his eyes were closed and his mouth slightly open, but when an official stood over him to check, it was clear something was wrong. "Mr Lockett is not unconscious," Trammell said.

At 6.33pm, Lockett was checked again and declared to be sedated. But then, during the following minutes, Lockett lurched forward against his restraints, writhing and attempting to speak. He strained and struggled violently, his body twisting, and his head reaching up from the gurney. Sixteen minutes after the execution began, Lockett said "Man," and Trammell decreed the blinds be lowered. Before they fell, Lockett's right arm was checked.

Then, in a gesture that seemed to echo Oklahoma’s fierce commitment to secrecy in the way it carries out lethal injections, the curtains were drawn over the execution chamber, obscuring the gruesome spectacle from public view. Officials picked up prison phones and left the room.

After a few minutes, the corrections department director, Robert Patton, came to the viewing room. "We’ve had a vein failure in which the chemicals did not make it into the offender," he told the assembled group, which included lawyers for the condemned prisoner, as well as 12 journalists

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/clayton-lockett-oklahoma-execution-witness


No disrespect intended to the OP, but I just hate opening what seems like an interesting thread only to find no context at all as to what the thread is about. I could discern that someone had been executed, but that's about it.

Peace,

Ghost

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
9. Agree entirely
Fri May 2, 2014, 04:56 PM
May 2014

I support teh death penalty only in cases where the convict represents such a danger that even the tiny chance of him getting loose is too big a chance to take and where there is absolute proof of guilt (not an unattainable standard anymore). But if people are going to be executed, it must be in a way that minimises pain. That's what makes us better than them.

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
10. There's some serious ugliness in the other thread
Fri May 2, 2014, 05:00 PM
May 2014

Folks calling themselves "progressives," apologizing for cruel and unusual punishment.

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