So 'Asian Carp' is racially offensive now?

[B2G]

Minnesota lawmakers consider renaming Asian carp

Article by: MIKE CRONIN
Associated Press
March 27, 2014 - 5:15 PM

ST. PAUL, Minn. — The troublesome fish currently known as Asian carp may get a new name in Minnesota over concern that the current one casts people from Asian cultures in a negative light.

Proposals advancing in the Legislature would require the Department of Natural Resources to refer to the fish as "invasive carp," a reference to the threat the non-native fish pose to Mississippi River-area ecosystems.

Sen. John Hoffman, the Champlin Democrat sponsoring a bill in the Senate, said some people of Asian descent have complained about the name.

"Caucasians brought them to America," Hoffman, the bill's primary Senate sponsor, said Thursday. "Should we call them 'Caucasian carp?' They have names. Let's call them what they are."

Asian carp actually describes two closely related fish, the bighead carp and silver carp, that are native to a region of Asia spanning China, part of Siberia and North Korea, said Cindy Kolar, a fish biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Va. Since their introduction to the United States about 30 years ago, they have become a threat to native fish including those in the Great Lakes, Minnesota and elsewhere.

http://www.startribune.com/252700111.html

[Throd]

1. That's just moronic.

[Nye Bevan]

2. Next up: "Belgian waffles".

Offensively suggests that people from Belgium tend to waffle.

[MO_Moderate]

5. I have to say that is one of the funniest things I've seen on here

[H2O Man]

7. well done!

[MADem]

10. Followed shortly by French Toast (see Hollande, his 2 ex-lady friends, and recent romance)! nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

48. That's Freedom Toast, pal!

What are you , some kind of commie?!?

[MADem]

50. Heh heh!!!! nt

[kentauros]

14. Of course they waffle!

It's because "Belgium" is the most offensive word in the Universe. And it's only in use on Earth because we don't know what it means.
(paraphrasing Douglass Adams)

[Mugu]

31. Hear, hear! n/t

[Eleanors38]

55. And Florida Bass, because... well, Florida.

[Comrade Grumpy]

3. People should quit carping about this. n/t

[MADem]

11. DUzy! nt

[Eleanors38]

56. Yeah, sucker born every nano-second.

[Arugula Latte]

73. You're tired of the carping crap?

[WinkyDink]

4. O, FGS. Asininity.

[NuclearDem]

6. How exactly does it cast those ethnicities in a negative light?

[LuvNewcastle]

8. I've heard they're delicious.

Sell them cheap enough or make them fashionable and healthy and they won't be considered such a plague. Anyone in the mood for some Blackened Asian Carp?

They get big, too. One of those carp could feed a lot of people. Freeze them and give them to people who need a good protein source. I know they're considered a menace to the ecosystems of the Miss. River and the Great Lakes, but I think that if they were culled enough, their populations could be managed.

[LisaLynne]

24. Yes, they are!

There are groups out there trying to change the perception that they are "bottom feeders" and thus less desirable to eat, because they aren't, as I understand it. I don't eat fish, myself, but I lot of people have told me they are really good and yes, that would help with keeping their numbers down.

[laundry_queen]

40. That is such a common misconception that they aren't good to eat

Or even that they kill all the other fish (not the ones I'm talking about anyway, not sure about Asian carp)

I worked at a fishing place and we had to work a lot of ice fishing derbies and it was unreal the amount of bottom feeders people would catch and then leave to die on the ice. We would go around telling people that they aren't killing the fish they want and that they are very good eating. Most people had no idea. After the derby was over we would gather all the ones that were abandoned on the ice...putting them all back (some were still alive, others would be food for the other fish).

[genwah]

30. Absolutely. If not that then ship them off to make fish pellets which can be used

for salmon farming.

[Jenoch]

41. Both the Bighead and Silver Carp

are voracious eaters and breeders and will crowd out native species. The Minnesota fishery is extremely important to the economy. Plus, the Silver Carp are frightened by boat motors and leap out of the water as high as ten feet. They cab grow to 40#. if one of those Asian Carp hits someone in the face while the boat is doing 25 mph, well, that can kill a fella.

[jmowreader]

72. All you'd need is a better name

This ugly motherfucker is a Patagonian Toothfish. You wouldn't eat this thing at gunpoint.



This is a Chilean Sea Bass. You can order this online for $30 per pound, and people slurp down this fish so readily it was threatened for a while. (The South Americans have un-fucked their fishery, and now it's morally okay to eat these.)



You will notice it's the same graphic...that's because it's the same fish, just with a nicer name. The same thing could happen to carp.

[cloudbase]

9. Just call them pacific walleye

and the Minnesotans will eat 'em up.

[pipi_k]

20. Or...

"Hotdish" for the 14 Minnesotans who don't like fish.

[Orrex]

12. My local homecenter stopped stocking gypsum for that very same reason.

[Maedhros]

35. Huh?

The word gypsum is derived from the Greek word ?ύ??? (gypsos), "chalk" or "plaster".

How is that offensive?

[pipi_k]

61. Because...

it's probably going to piss off the Gypsies...

[Orrex]

75. .

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Call them "Oriental Carp" instead then.

And if anyone complains about that, tell them "oh no, see, we're calling the FISH Oriental. We understand that 'Asian' is the acceptable ethnic term for people from Asia."

This is right up there with "niggardly" in terms of "stupid people make 'political correctness' look absurd".

[NV Whino]

15. This opens a whole can of worms

French fries. Baked Alaska for god's sake. We wouldn't want to imply that Alaskans are baked, or even half baked.

[Maedhros]

37. Have you seen some of the people Alaska has elected Governor?

Half-baked is pretty accurate.

[giftedgirl77]

42. Half cocked & two sheets to the wind is more like it.

[NV Whino]

46. Ah, you do have a point.

[tblue37]

76. Coloradans are baked now. Maybe Alaskans will be next year. nt

[Nine]

16. That's not renaming them.

They already had names: "bighead carp" and "silver carp." The term "Asian carp" is what's new. I do think "invasive carp" is a better term, and I also think "Asian carp" carries some negativity as well as being less accurate - because it sounds like the name of a species and it's not.

[alarimer]

23. It's accurate.

It's simply where they originate, but it covers many species.

Common names are always problematic, though I doubt anyone will use the scientific names on the news.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

17. Ninja Carp!

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. In other news, "American Idiot" will be used as the offical Minnesotan Senate song

if they pass this.

[oneofthe99]

19. .

[alp227]

21. Hoffman. You're doing it wrong. Do you know what "invasive" means?

You're making the problem worse dude. (And I'm Asian American btw.)

[alarimer]

22. "Asian" simply reflects their origin and includes 9 species that have been introduced widely.

The most common in the US is the grass carp.

No, it is not racist to refer to these fish as "Asian." It is, in fact, ACCURATE.

People won't eat them because they are carp, which have wrongly been thought to be inedible.

[FarCenter]

26. "People won't eat them"? Except maybe Iowans?

[intaglio]

77. Carp INEDIBLE????

WTF??? It's a lovely fish and historic, monasteries and castles used to farm it.

[Starry Messenger]

25. I'm sorry this is going to ruin your life.

[The Straight Story]

27. Well, from what I understand, we can't tell someone else not to be offended

by something.

But that does not mean we all have to find the same thing offensive or that we are 'insensitive' 'brutish' 'uncaring', etc if we aren't ourselves finding it offensive.

[dilby]

28. Why not just call them bighead carp and silver carp, that is there names?

I understand what he is saying, they have real names and just slapping Asian on them sounds like an Ethnic slur since they are an invasive species. It would be like if they were called Mexican Carp or African Carp, there is no need for them to include region of origin since they have real names.

[sofa king]

29. It's a fish that tries to jump in your boat!

I think people ought to be calling it the "bad fisherman's lucky day."

[madinmaryland]

32. I guess we could talk about Asian Woodcarvers...

[Texasgal]

38. heh heh!

*snicker*

[Warpy]

33. Brought to you by word jumping hysterics who are nearly always

outraged at one term or other on someone else's behalf.

"Asian carp" is fine, it tells us where the fish is from and maybe we can import a few voracious predators who prefer to dine on it above all else.

Word police want our language gutted completely. They haven't been this active since the high Victorian period when a table's legs had to be referred to as "limbs" lest they arouse the passions of any male present and oh, that would have been so unseemly.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. Seriously?

I was told not long ago that the term Asian was preferable to oriental.

[AngryAmish]

36. Yes it is.

Check your privilege.

[Maedhros]

39. Since when does referring to the continent of origin for a species of FISH

have ANYTHING to do with race?

[Niceguy1]

43. I think that the perpetually offended

Are on a fishing expedition.

[Sheldon Cooper]

44. I love threads like this.

You really get to see the true colors of so many posters here. Thanks B2G!

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I had a pithy response all set to write

then my wrist seized up.



Damn you, carpal tunnel!

[LeftOfWest]

54. Is this the norm here?

wondering....

[Spirochete]

45. What we really need to watch out for

are those Tunisian tuna...

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. As someone with a proportionally-large noggin...

...I call on the brave Sen. Hoffman to go all-in and also include "bighead carp" in this liberating and inspiring piece of legislation. And now that I think of it, include "silver carp," too. It's a blatant, cruel insult to the elderly.

[TransitJohn]

49. For fucks sakes

how many words are busybodies gonna take away from the language? fuckers.

[pipi_k]

62. Idiots are everywhere...

Do you remember the great "Fishkill" controversy?


http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/06/fishy.name/

[Warren DeMontague]

51. They should do what fine restauranteurs do all the time

Call them Chilean Sea Bass.

[wickerwoman]

53. Next up... the Great Tit.

[pipi_k]

63. And don't forget...

Titmice

and


Lake Titicaca

[NCTraveler]

57. Invasive Carp is really a better thing to call them in this region of the US.

Not saying they should change the name as this individual is saying, or that it is in some way racist, just that "invasive" simply drives the point home.

[MineralMan]

58. All carp are invasive species in the US.

The European carp was introduced in the 19th century and is still causing problems wherever it thrives. In Minnesota, European carp in our lakes and rivers roil up the mud and cause problems for the environment. They were introduced as a fish that could be used as food, by European immigrants who wanted the familiar fish available. Still, they're popular with many anglers, who relish catching carp as large as 30-40 lb here in Minnesota.

The two species of carp from Asia that are currently threatening to spread up the Mississippi River and other midwest rivers are another matter. They are pretty much an accidentally released fish that have the potential for altering the ecology of the entire Mississippi watershed. Not a good thing. They're edible, but there is no market for them in the US, other that to be turned into fish meal, and the price paid to commercial fishermen for them is so small that it's not worth catching them.

Now, if they could be caught on hook and line, they'd be very popular with anglers, but they can't, so there's no sport fishing pressure on them. Sadly, it appears that their spread is inevitable. There doesn't seem to be a way to keep them from swimming where they will and reproducing. It's a real problem.

Call them whatever you wish, but they're a serious issue that's not going away.

[B2G]

59. No sport fishing?

I beg to differ.

[MineralMan]

60. OK. But, not a lot of anglers use those techniques.

There are some folks who also do archery fishing, trying to hit the carp on the fly. Again...not many people do that. Hook and Line anglers can't catch those carp species from Asia. On the other hand, the European carp are easily caught on hook and line.

[pipi_k]

64. I double-dog dare them...

Sadly, it appears that their spread is inevitable. There doesn't seem to be a way to keep them from swimming where they will and reproducing. It's a real problem.

to swim over the Berkshires and infest my little backyard pond...

[Jenoch]

66. A University of Minnesota fisheries professor has found a way to block Asian carp from reaching the

upper Mississippi River.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_25625566/invasive-carp-u-prof-has-plan-needs-money

I'm sure you're aware of the Silver Carp and that they leap out of the water when a motorboat goes by near the carp. Well, that same water cavitation can be used as a barrier to the carp. The carp hear the noise, but other fish do not.

[MineralMan]

69. Perhaps he has. That's not certain,

and it hasn't been tested in actual river conditions. I hope it works, and gets installed before the carp move into the upper reaches of the river. That's assuming that they already haven't migrated past the last lock and dam.

Frankly, I have little confidence that they can be kept from spreading. The necessity of keeping barge traffic flowing on the Mississippi is likely to make prevention measures from being completely effective, and I expect to see them in the river in downtown St. Paul within the next couple of years. I fish there often, and will probably encounter them at some point.

I'm an active carp angler, both in the river and in local lakes. These Asian carp aren't going to be catchable, but if they jump, then I'm going to see them while fishing for European carp. River traffic has resumed through the locks in the Twin Cities this year, so there aren't any real barriers to these fish right now. I suspect they've already gotten through, frankly.

Too bad. We're not very good at stopping invasive species. The best hope is that our northern pike, muskies, walleyes, and bass decide that young asian carp are a delectable food source. If that happens, it's possible that they'll stay under control here. I don't know.

[Jenoch]

70. I remember spearing spawning carp when I was a kid.

Do you eat the carp or smoke them first?

I think the fish barrier could possible slow down the spread of the carp into the upper Mississippi. I believe it is worth a try.

[MineralMan]

71. I release them to grow bigger.

The European carp are here and aren't going away. They're just fish, now, and they will never be eradicated, so I fish for them and release them. So far, my record catch is 37 lb. I'll catch a 50 pounder one day. I've seen them.

I have eaten carp, though, in the past. You have to deal with the bones, but they're tasty when baked.

[Jenoch]

78. The MNDNR says it's ok to return them to the same body of water, but I wouldn't. Then again,

I'm not fishing for them.

[MineralMan]

79. And that's just what I do.

Oddly enough, in Europe, carp fishing is a very popular activity. People devote huge amounts of time and money trying to catch large carp, and always handle them very gently and release them.

Here in the US, carp fishing, along with angling for other "rough fish" is beginning to become more popular. The interest in catching 20-50 lb. fish is hard to resist. In the Mississippi river, about the only fish that size that are legal to catch are carp, the occasional buffalo fish and a few rare freshwater drum that grow to that size. There are also catfish that commonly exceed 30 pounds, too.

Since I practice catch and release for all fish, I'm eager to catch these larger species. My fishing techniques result in minimal harm to the fish, and I quickly release the ones I catch without harming them. Some people don't get the concept of this, but I don't care. Fishing is relaxing and enjoyable, so I do it, but I have no wish to harm the fish, so I don't.

A 30 lb. carp is quite a catch. I catch carp from a dock in downtown St. Paul, and often have an audience, for whom I'm the old white-haired, white-bearded eccentric old man fishing where nobody fishes. I've met people from all over the world while doing it. It's always a treat and, for some reason, it seems like the minute an observer shows up, I catch something memorable. My favorite was a 10-lb Redhorse sucker, caught while an Irish family was watching me. They're beautiful and the stair-step ginger kids in the family were fascinated. They got a naturalist's lecture about the species from me. I do that a lot, when I catch something unusual. I know the habits, diet, and stories behind all of the species in the River and love to share the information.

[Jenoch]

80. I grew up in SW Minnesota, on the shores of a shallow prairie lake.

The carp in that lake stir up the mud and make it difficult for the panfish, walleye, and northern pike, to spawn. When I was a kid the local sportmen's club would hire a guy with a commercial fishing license to net the carp in the spring and to sein for carp and buffalo fish through the ice in the winter. The fish was then went to a fish processing facility.

We had a lease (along with a bunch of other families) on a slough south of town and the carp were harmful. They made it so the cat tails would die off and there was a drought so the line of cat tails ended up being too far from water to put a spread of decoys out to use while hunting. The water was literally too far away to hit any waterfowl.

The snow cover on many those lakes last winter was deep that there was a lot of fish kill, unfortunately, some of the shallow lakes have deep pockets and the carp can survive on low oxygen better that sport fish.

Let's just say I'm not a fan.

[Nine]

65. Stories like this have an agenda.

What the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit was to the notion of frivolous lawsuits, so stories like this are to the notion of political correctness run amok.

No one is going on tv making a racket about the term "Asian carp." This is a small local measure that is harmless at worst. No one would even know about it if it didn't get picked up and spread around by those with an agenda.

And I don't think this proposal is a bad thing at all. Some of you find it ridiculous. But as noted upthread, these species already had names. I think it's naive to believe that NO ONE is going to attach any significance to referring to these invasive species as "Asian" carp. I absolutely believe that term adds in some small way to prejudice against Asians and the mindset that these foreigners brought something bad to the US that is hurting us. Just like I think that a viral epidemic migrating to the US from Mexico would lead to a lot more anti-immigrant sentiment if it were called "Mexican flu" rather than something else.

[hughee99]

68. Stories like this are to the notion of political correctness run amok, because

this is a story about political correctness run amok. EVERY local story that gets picked up and pushed on a wider scale is done because someone has an agenda.

[hughee99]

67. Yes! People need to be more sensitive to this sort of racism.

If you go to a restaurant and order the Chilean sea bass, pad Thai, Vienna sausages, Swedish meatballs, an Irish stew, or if you want American cheese on your Hamburger, you have to make an effort to understand how incredibly insensitive this may be to the people around you. Personally, as someone born in California, I'm deeply offended by the "California Blend" in the frozen vegetables aisle. My children don't like it very much and I fear this will lead to resentment of all Californians.

[Kaleva]

74. How about naming it Clive Bundy Carp or Oath Keeper Carp?