Monica Lewinsky made a poor choice when she had sex with a married man.

[MoonRiver]

Yes, Bill Clinton also made a poor choice when had sex with Monica. But it is outrageous for Monica to blame the media for the results of her poor choices. The real victims, as everybody knows, were Hillary and Chelsea Clinton. Monica not so much. Poor choices sometimes result in bad outcomes. Many learn from their mistakes and carry on. But, 16 years after the affair, Monica seems to be stuck, still blaming everybody but herself. I have zero sympathy. I also think she is trying, in a delusional fashion, to bring down her former rival Hillary Clinton.

[harrose]

1. I'm Still Not Convinced That the Whole Thing...

... never happened and was nothing more than a Repuke smear campaign.

Not necessarily saying that I'm right, but I'm not convinced that I'm wrong.

[Xipe Totec]

4. Funny you should use the word smear. After all, there's that stained Blue Dress... nt

[harrose]

5. Was the DNA from the dress tested?

It could be anything... or anyone's.

[Xipe Totec]

7. You should really do your own research. But since you asked.

Physical evidence conclusively establishes that the President and Ms. Lewinsky had a sexual relationship. After reaching an immunity and cooperation agreement with the Office of the Independent Counsel on July 28, 1998, Ms. Lewinsky turned over a navy blue dress that she said she had worn during a sexual encounter with the President on February 28, 1997. According to Ms. Lewinsky, she noticed stains on the garment the next time she took it from her closet. From their location, she surmised that the stains were the President's semen.(1)

Initial tests revealed that the stains are in fact semen.(2) Based on that result, the OIC asked the President for a blood sample.(3) After requesting and being given assurances that the OIC had an evidentiary basis for making the request, the President agreed.(4) In the White House Map Room on August 3, 1998, the White House Physician drew a vial of blood from the President in the presence of an FBI agent and an OIC attorney.(5) By conducting the two standard DNA comparison tests, the FBI Laboratory concluded that the President was the source of the DNA obtained from the dress.(6) According to the more sensitive RFLP test, the genetic markers on the semen, which match the President's DNA, are characteristic of one out of 7.87 trillion Caucasians.(7)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/icreport/6narrit.htm#L28

Try to come better prepared next time.

[harrose]

11. Any chance at all...

... that Starr and his thugs either faked the results, switched the samples or did any other hijinks?

[Hekate]

13. They did a lot of things, but apparently not that. nt

[harrose]

14. OK, if you're so sure and trusting...

I prefer to be a bit more skeptical - but to each their own.

[Reter]

92. If the whole thing was made up, why wouldn't the President say he was innocent to this day?

He even apologized for the "improper relationship" with her.

[Xipe Totec]

194. There is a subtle difference between skepticism and willful ignorance.

Skepticism is not believing until the fact are in.

Willful ignorance is refusing to look at the facts.

[NCTraveler]

209. What you are doing here is not skepticism. nt.

[Dreamer Tatum]

218. You misspelled "troll." nt

[sabrina 1]

169. Do you think that all those Republicans who were exposed for having affairs during that

time, (thanks Larry Flint lol) really didn't have them either? Maybe it's all a show to keep us busy wasting time on the personal lives of politicians and not paying attention to what they are doing in DC?

Who knows, and who ever really cared.

[karynnj]

221. Even if it wasn't, if there were no inappropriate relationship, Bill Clinton would not have

admitted that there was - which he did because of the dress. Before there was talk of that dress, he simply said she was delusional.

[Xipe Totec]

196. Nicely put.

Loved the music. Thanks!

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Honestly, that sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

I never really doubted that it happened, but I fail to see its relevance to anything. Lots of politicians have had affairs & been in worse sexual entanglements than Bill & the Bimbo, & for the most part I don't really care about their personal lives as long as they still properly serve the state in their official lives. FDR had a mistress, Ike did too, JFK was stupidly brazen in his affairs, LBJ was a sexual monster, God knows about Reagan & Nancy--plenty of rumors about both--Bush I had a long-standing affair, etc. Only Icky Dick, Jimmy Carter & presumably the current incumbent seem unlikely to have gone that route in the past 80 years or so.

[DonViejo]

37. Nixon reportedly had a Chinese mistress...

some of the stories say she was from the People's Republic of China; others say Taiwan, with an affiliation to Chiang Kai-Shek and his Kuomintang.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nixon+had+a+chinese+mistress&oq=nixon+had+a+chinese+mistress&aqs=chrome..69i57.13871j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

[undeterred]

41. I read that as: Bush and I had a long-standing affair, etc.

[Jackpine Radical]

75. I resent that.

[Reter]

96. I don't think Ford did either

I heard rumors of Nancy with Frank Sinatra but none about Ronnie. Shrub was probably to stupid to pull it off. Maybe Laura though.

[Douglas Carpenter]

226. I wouldn't care if he had sex with Moncia Lewinsky's goat - but that's preposterous

Why on earth would the former President lie and make up a story claiming that he did? What you are doing is not skepticism. It is intentional and willful ignorance.

But like I said elsewhere, as long as they are not scaring the horses - I don't care in the least who is having sex with who.

[distantearlywarning]

2. Exactly.

And she's still worried about the fact that Hillary called her a name all those years ago?

Still no remorse, still no thought about how Hillary might have felt, the embarrassment. No, the problem here is that SHE got called a name. Give me a break.

Narcissistic, delusional, and fame-seeking.

[MoonRiver]

3. Yep, she could care less. And her sexy cover photo proves she just wants attention.

Now that Hillary has an excellent chance of winning the presidency, Lewinsky just can't stand it and has to rear her head again. UGH.

[3catwoman3]

56. Agreed. I posted in a related thread that if...

...I were Ms. Lewinsky and wanted to convince people that I was all grown up and should be taken seriously, I might have/probably would have chosen a different pose and dress. Stretching out along a red velvet sofa, in a white dress that kinda sorta looks like it is trying to look a virginal wedding dress, and beaming a semi-seductive looking smile at whoever is off camera just doesn't look right. I would be sitting up straight in a sturdy chair of some sort, with a more serious facial expression, perhaps with a book on my lap. And probably wearing a suit.

I thought I might be the only one who found the photo somewhat questionable.

[Feron]

79. Monica really can't win.

Had she taken your suggestion the same people criticizing her for the dress would still find fault with it. They would then criticize her for trying too hard to be taken seriously.

Maybe she simply doesn't want your approval and wants to wear whatever she goddamn wants.

Why no criticism for what Clinton wears? He's the one who cheated. Yet people here revere him and vilify her.

[840high]

91. Thank you.

[moriah]

103. She was well aware that Bill was hitched.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a person who is duped into fucking around with a married person, but she knew he wasn't free. She might not have taken the vows herself, but she should have respected them as well.

[Whisp]

119. and Bill just happened to forget he was hitched.

poor feller, boys can't think when all that blood isn't rushing to their heads but to their.... that's the ticket!

[moriah]

122. Neither are victims here. Had she somehow not known he was married, it'd be different.

But she chose to fuck around with a married man just as much as Bill chose to cheat.

[MADem]

236. Has Bill Clinton agreed to a VF interview/photo shoot?

When his article comes out, we'll want to critique it, too, I'm sure. Of course, he'll have to agree to do one, first. Think he will?

That said, VF asked ML to do the interview and she agreed. She may have been paid for her time. She also agreed to do a photo shoot, and VF is FAMOUS for artful and provocative photographs that, no matter how edgy, always make the subject look attractive (and she does look attractive in that picture). They're pictures that become works of art down the years.

Monica KNEW that she wouldn't be posed in a field dressed as Little Bo Peep, surrounded by sheep. The story was looking for a little "vibe" to sell it, photographically, and the image of the Portly Pepperpot (and that IS what the papers were calling her when the scandal was in full flower) nearly two decades on is what sells magazines.

Monica uses her fame --or infamy--on occasion; it's an asset that earns her a living, like it, or not. She can't get away from it, she is smart enough to dole herself out in small doses and market that asset to pay the bills.

[Louisiana1976]

59. +1 million

[Texasgal]

9. yet, Bill has been able to live a decent life

for himself, make good money, stay in the limelight all while Monica has been branded with a big red letter!

It's bullshit.

[Texasgal]

21. There is such a thing as bad publicity ?

I beg to differ.

She will always be known as the adulteress. I am in no way saying that she didn't make bad choices but when it comes to this whole affair Monica seems to get the crap end of the stick as opposed to Bill who made the very same bad choice.

As far as making money off her bad choice she decided to stay private which in many ways I respect.

[Dorian Gray]

39. Plus

he was older, wiser and married. She should have suffered less than him.

(In his favor, he was and is way more politically astute than she, so that worked for him.)

I don't think anybody should have suffered from this (other than his wife and daughter, privately, dealing with it as they saw fit).

[grasswire]

78. wrong WRONG

The President of the United States was blackmailable. The Commander In Chief. Blackmailable.

It mattered to us all.

That was the wrong that they did. Nightmare scenario.

[customerserviceguy]

146. Agreed

That was the real problem here, the President compromised all of us who supported him (and who had believed his promises that his randy past was finally behind him) by doing this. He didn't even pick something approaching an "equal", not that there's anything quite equivalent to being POTUS, but someone who saw herself with as much to lose as he had would have at least probably kept this from coming out into public view.

At this point, we do not have the total picture of what compromises the President made as a result of having this affair. We don't know what he did in regards to foreign policy (Monica was Jewish, did Israel get cut some kind of break that she blackmailed him into) or domestic policy (who did he bargain with to get an acquittal in the Senate) that simply wouldn't have happened if he had been strong enough to send her away when she flashed the thong at him the first time.

I'm quite sure that had they not done this, Al Gore would have been elected President, and we would not have had the damages that eight years of W. have given us. Yes, she was weak, but we didn't elect her to look out for this country's well being.

[Behind the Aegis]

171. WOW! Just WOW!

[customerserviceguy]

200. See post #199

I apologize for any offense you took because of my example, I should have picked either a different one, or added that different one to my post to make it look more like just an example. In any case, we don't know a thing that happened between them in discussions that's not in the Starr Report, and I'm sure that we might never fully know.

[alp227]

173. "Monica was Jewish, did Israel get cut some kind of break that she blackmailed him into"

Really dude? You gotta self-delete as soon as you can. From the TOS:

Do not post bigotry...includ(ing) any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel...

Democratic Underground is not intended to be a platform for kooks and crackpots peddling paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact.

That's a frickin' double technical foul right there.

[Agschmid]

175. Jury kept it too... apparently everyone has lost it tonight.

[Agschmid]

174. Hey there you should re-read your post...

It's ridiculous, it seems as though you may have lost it, let me just repost what you said:

At this point, we do not have the total picture of what compromises the President made as a result of having this affair. We don't know what he did in regards to foreign policy (Monica was Jewish, did Israel get cut some kind of break that she blackmailed him into) or domestic policy (who did he bargain with to get an acquittal in the Senate) that simply wouldn't have happened if he had been strong enough to send her away when she flashed the thong at him the first time.

Yes I added the bolding because maybe you didn't see it the first, or the second, or the third time you checked out your post but really? is that actually your assertion because it is offensive.

Rethink your post.

[customerserviceguy]

199. I just picked one known aspect of her life

It could have been anything that he did that she wanted not to go public. I did not mean to say that something definitely was done, just that Bill Clinton's actions made it possible for her to blackmail him for what she wanted.

Back in the days of the Cold War, a major politician putting themselves in a compromising position would have been thought to have been treasonous if said situation had involved someone from a communist country.

You are correct in that I guess I should have included a disclaimer in my original post, or included possible other examples. Perhaps the jury that judged the post felt that as it was only an example, and not an out-and-out charge, it didn't need to be censored.

I'm pro-Israel, and while I think that Bill Clinton looked after Israel's well being sufficiently, I hope that all actions he took were because they were the best thing to have done at the time, and not because of reasons related to scandal. I can't conclusively say that with regard to his involvement with the war with Yugoslavia.

[Agschmid]

215. I appreciate your response, thank you for that.

While I agree you may not have had a motive with that post it does come across as offensive to some.

I also want to point out that many sitting Presidents have involved themselves in (at least potentially) extramarital affairs, I'm not sure that the blackmail consideration really plays into their decisions.

[customerserviceguy]

241. I suppose that's true

But Bill Clinton did not have a Congress on his side after the 1994 elections, he really should have known not to give red meat to his enemies.

In any case, after the Clinton-Lewinsky thing, it should have been common sense to avoid such liaisons, that's one of the reasons I'm so very critical of John Edwards. But, in both parties, the horn dogs never seem to learn from others' mistakes.

[grasswire]

165. Every president who screwed around was blackmailable.

Each one of them.

Dangerous.

[In_The_Wind]

204. Somehow I would have guessed that about you.

[meanit]

203. It was a nation crisis!!!!!!!!!

The flag was falling!!!!!

Not this shit again....

[Texasgal]

50. YOU would never hold her to a higher standard

that's great... so many people do. I cannot imagine how hard it would be for her to get a decent job, she is extremely well educated. I wonder how her job interviews go... "so, you are the harlot that gave our prez a BJ, eh?"

UGH.

[grasswire]

77. did you miss the part where Bill was humiliated and impeached?

Huh?

Disbarred, too, IIRC.

[Dorian Gray]

38. Yes, this....

and if Lewinsky coming forward can in any way affect Hillary's campaign, it shows women are judged in a much more complex and harmful way then men are.

[Texasgal]

45. Good point!

Hillary can not possibly become president because her husband had an affair with a young lady that is still vilified by the public.

YES. Good POINT.

[Dorian Gray]

211. I have good points

every once in awhile! LOL

[meanit]

205. Talk to Ken Starr

and the rest of the GOP sex ghouls. They are the ones who dragged the whole matter out and into a national crisis.
It was the GOP insanity that ruined lives.

[Le Taz Hot]

10. And another slut-shaming thread.

Must protect the Clintons at all costs.

You didn't actually read the article, did you? The part where she says, very specifically, that she takes full responsibility for her actions AT 22.

Nah, you guys just see red whenever anything even remotely is perceived to have anything close to threatening His/Her Heiness.

[Louisiana1976]

63. Well said.

[Le Taz Hot]

68. Monica is a "slut" but Bill, the serial adulterer is a "fool."

Got it.

She was 22 fucking years old. I don't know about you but I didn't get my shit together until I was WAY over 22. I did lots of stupid things and said a lot of stupid things back then. And if you say you didn't you're either a liar or you lived in a nunnery.

Newt Gingrich and the GOP "own it" because Clinton fucking GAVE IT TO THEM.

And I like the part where you give the list of Monica's sins but fail to mention that Bill Clinton apparently had a problem keeping it in his pants for DECADES -- LONG before Monica ever came along and way past the time when he was old enough to know better.

She was a 22-year-old looking for love in all the wrong places and she just happened to be close to the president. The president was sure as hell old enough to know better and the dumb-ass took full advantage of the situation. Yeah, I remember too and I know where the fault lies and it's not solely on Monica's shoulders.

[moriah]

106. Bill's a slut, too, and a fool because he *was* old enough to know better. However....

.... if a 22-year-old can get married and be expected to live up to vows they take not to cheat, they can also be expected to respect the marriage vows of others.

It takes two to tango. Had either of them showed restraint or intelligence, we'd have been spared a great deal.

[Le Taz Hot]

109. Could we PLEASE

stop with the MISOGYNIST LANGUAGE? For fuck sake! What is wrong with you people?

[moriah]

111. There's not a male equivalent that has the same connotation sweetie.

If there were, I'd have used it.

[Le Taz Hot]

114. So you perpetuate the mysogeny

by further utilizing the offending terminology

[Gravitycollapse]

150. Reading the passive aggression in your posts is like having my own nails ground on a chalkboard.

One of the most obnoxious things any human being can do to another is use to reverse terms of endearment to imply insult.

No one here is your sweetie. This is a conflict. Be forward and sincere or don't say anything at all.

[moriah]

152. It's passive-aggressive to say that a person who chooses to mess around with someone who's married..

... made their own bed?

And I'll edit to add a big ol' "Bless your heart", because that's how us Southerners deal with rudeness. Kill 'em with kindness.

[Gravitycollapse]

153. Killing someone with kindness is one of the purest forms of passive aggression.

To weaponize passiveness or kindness is a horrific tragedy of rhetoric.

Like I said, sincerity is one of the lowest demands anyone should make of any discussion. It is the least you could do to avoid indirect insult. If you must insult, have the courage to do it directly by saying what you think rather than couching truth behind words which deserve better usage.

Using terms of endearment like "sweetie" as a form of subordinating the target is a historically misogynist tactic, by the way. You are reducing the target to that of a child and you are removing their agency in the process.

[moriah]

154. I call men, women, children, dogs, cats, and plants "sweetie". Don't feel special.

Also, if you have such a problem with my posts, there's a lovely little feature. It's called "ignore". Please use it rather than continue to harass me.

[Gravitycollapse]

155. It is not the word but the usage that I speak of. Which you demonstrate succinctly.

Generally speaking, especially in a situation already rife with conflict, terms of endearment take on counter-intuitive meaning.

Here is a good representation of this in film:

Whereas calling an actual friend "friendo" may constitute a show of real affection, in a tense situation it is an unambiguous insult. It is violent rhetoric.

None of this is harassment towards you. You return to this discussion which shows a willingness for it to continue; an action in keeping with the spirit of a discussion board. If at any time you do not want to discuss this any more, you can simply stop replying.

[moriah]

157. Since you fail to take the high road, I shall.

/ignore

[intaglio]

172. As I observed elsewhere

It only takes one to say NO!

Bill had the power in the relationship
Bill had the responsibility to a wife
Bill had a responsibility to his country
Bill had a responsibility to other Democratic party members

Was Monica allowed to take any sexual pleasure? No, Bill just expected her to service his momentary needs.

[moriah]

178. Yeah -- and either of them could have said it. Hence, both in the wrong for not!

I really don't care to delve into the Starr Report or the depictions of their sex life from Monica's first book.

A person who will cheat with you has no respect for vows, whether they're ones they take or others take. Adultery is wrong, whichever side of it you're on. Both fucked up when they fucked around.

[intaglio]

182. So adolescents who "choose" to have sex with adult teachers or priests or rock stars

are just evil tempters/temptresses?

In your world blame for the pedophile crime would lie partly with the victim, that's called victim blaming and slut shaming.

Oh, and I can hear your whiny little justification now "... but, but, but she was 22!!eleventy-one!" that does not mean she had power any more than Sable Star had any power in her relationships.

[moriah]

185. EXCUSE you?

Please, how on earth did you correlate my condemnation of consensual (as all accounts state, including Monica in the very Vanity Fair article at issue) adultery between adults and pedophillia?

Adults have choices. Kids don't.

Learn to read.

[intaglio]

193. The issue is power

Bill had the power and the "rock star" reputation; he had the wife and the responsibilities. If Ms Lewinski offered or agreed to conducting a sexual act then that is a sign of her immaturity

His agreement to or request for Ms Lewinski to perform that act abused both Ms Lewinski and his power. In exactly the same way as the rock star using his (or her) groupies of whatever age or the boss who uses his office juniors or interns or the college professor massaging grades in exchange for favours.

At worst Ms Lewinski was guilty of immaturity and hero worship.

At best Mr Clinton was guilty of abuse in exactly the same way as the pedophile or the ephebophile.

[moriah]

220. OMG, you mean that my ex who was my team lead took advantage of me? He had Teh Power!

It doesn't matter that when we first met I trained him, or that we started dating between assignments, or that the boss hired us knowing we were an item. It put him into Power over little ole poor pitiful me, and I can't possibly make choices for myself when someone else might be in a higher position in society than me!

Give me a break. I'm from the hometown of one of the more famous groupies and she's never said she was coerced into anything. She enjoyed herself and did things because she wanted to and liked it. Which is not a bad thing unless you're showing disrespect for marriage vows.

We have fought for so many years for women to be able to own their sexuality, and now you're trying to take it away from her?

[karynnj]

222. There is a HUGE difference between you and your ex and the PRESIDENT of the US and an intern

The magnitude of difference in power is enormous.

[moriah]

223. Of course. So is the difference between consensual adultery between grown-ups and pedophillia.

But they were more than willing to go there.

Edit to add: There was no coercion or promise of benefit from the President. This wasn't a "show me your tits or you're fired" or "I see you're failing this class, why don't you help yourself by helping me?" situation. And certainly not a "Hey little girl, want some candy? Get into my van" one.

[karynnj]

228. Please link to any post - ever - that I have made that equates pedophellia and adultery

Here's a clue - I NEVER would have posted anything that could remotely be described that way.

Your post deserves to be alerted on and removed.

I think HRC will be our nominee and the next president. However, I really do not thing it reasonable to defend Bill Clinton's actions on this. It is a waste of time and, at least for me, violates my own values. This relationship is part of his story - as are many many successes. It will always be a negative on his legacy, but it is not the whole story. Defending him likely INCREASES the time spent on this.

It will be HRC running and this is not her problem. It seems better to make the case that the Democratic agenda is better for the country than the Republican one.

[moriah]

229. Please read the edit where I thought you were the person I was talking to. thanks.

Also: edit to add: If you jump in the middle of a conversation that was pretty heated, please understand why sometimes a person might get confused when usernames are the same length and they presume it was the person they were discussing speaking. Not alert-worthy when fixed with an edit very quickly to change "you" to "they".

[intaglio]

230. So, by your own admission you were not an immature intern

I would guess you did not hero worship him. Did your ex apply overt or covert pressure related to your work to get your compliance? I would guess not. All in all this example is an abysmal job at misinterpreting what I said and applying a completely erroneous parallel.

As to the Star Magazine groupies, one or two say they were not coerced, so what? Does that in any way alter the fact that adult men by use of their fame and position, fully aware of the illegality of their acts, fucked under age girls? These men should have said "No" or do you think that all men are sexual automata unable to think except with their dicks? Fine respect for men that you have!

For your final insult to intelligence you try and claim that women who now having the right to offer sex to the partner of their choice are undermined by the duty of all responsible persons, male or female, to avoid abusing their fame, their authority and the trust given. Do you really believe that every man propositioned by woman must immediately drop his trousers and start fluffing himself?

[moriah]

231. Did Bill? No. I read the books.

When I was referring to a famous groupie, I was talking about Connie Hamzy. NOT underage people, and you need to get over your comparisons between consensual sex between adults and sex with kids. Monica could vote, drink, and enlist.

I have said what feels like 100 times on these threads that both were equally culpable for their actions in this matter. Yet you seem to think that suggesting she had equal culpability means somehow I'm lessening Bill's culpability? Only if you see a grown woman as a child, which is taking away their agency.

[intaglio]

232. And you need to get over the idea that consensual sex is always appropriate

You have observed that "I have said what feels like 100 times on these threads that both were equally culpable for their actions in this matter," that is a lie but you are unable to see it although many others are so capable. President Clinton abused his position, his fame, his marriage and the trust of a young woman all by being unable to say "No!" this simple failure makes him more culpable.

What you are saying, although you cannot admit it, is that the person in authority has a duty to say yes to every sexual offer that is made. You are saying that nothing matters apart from surrendering to the inappropriate desires of an immature person. You may not use those exact words but that is what is implied by your ignorant assault on simple ethics.

Similarly in respect of your claimed knowledge of Connie Hamzy, it is interesting that she admits having sex with rock musicians from the age of 15. Sorry but the guys who used her fulfill the definition of ephebophiles or borderline pedophiles and, something I'll repeat ad nauseam, the men did not have to say "Yes"

In respect of Ms Lewinski's age, being 22 does not mean she was emotionally mature - indeed the fact she was able to make the offer to President Clinton implies either that she was emotionally immature or that she sought a deeper relationship than that the President was willing to offer. In both cases he should have said "No". If it is "taking away her agency" (FFS) then by your standard any man she offered herself to was duty bound to say yes.

Your position is so ignorant, grossly unethical and unreasonable that I see no point in continuing to argue with you. Others can see the problem but you are blinded by hero worship.

[moriah]

234. *boggle* Of course it wasn't appropriate. He's married. Duh.

How on earth do you go from my original post which got you so pissy, where I said "Yeah -- and either of them could have said it. Hence, both in the wrong for not!" to saying that the President had a duty to say yes to a sexual come-on?

You've been reaching this entire time, and still are.

[Texasgal]

74. As if Bill didn't have any

problems himself. Has it not been reported that Bill had affairs after affairs with numerous women?

[Le Taz Hot]

101. So what does that make Bill Clinton?

I can't believe this shit is on a "liberal" message board.

[Whisp]

125. There is a post around here somewhere about Monica's sexual history

apparently she also had an affair with another married older man before Clinton... and some other sexy things done with, *gasp, boys and men!

Made me want to puke because that sounds like a rape trial to me, to dredge that kind of shit up.

And this from a poster that blames every setback that Hillary has and had on sexism.
o my.

[Le Taz Hot]

129. Is that the same one that brought up her

abortion? You're right. It IS like a rape trial.

[JanMichael]

188. Yep

I am amazed at the DUers that do not seem to have read the article- particularly the ones that self identify as "feminists."

[MoonRiver]

17. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. eom

[waddirum]

40. What is up with all of this the slut shaming?

Adult women are allowed to have sex with adult men, whether they are old or young. What is the big fucking deal? What is wrong with having an abortion? Why did you even bringing that up?

And what does her father being a poor "father figure" have to do with Monica's own choice to be a sexually active adult? And why the hell should he apologize?

Nothing in your post makes any sense.

[rocktivity]

58. You call it slut shaming -- I, like the OP, call it poor choice-making

Last edited Sat Aug 29, 2020, 01:31 PM - Edit history (3)

Especially when you're of legal adult age and you know they're married.

And you can rest assured if Bill had put himself out this way looking for absolution, I'd hold him to the exact same standard. I sure didn't give MGreevey or Condit a free ride.


rocktivity

[intaglio]

177. I agree, you made a poor choice when you decided to

blame the woman rather than the guy with all the power.

[Le Taz Hot]

102. There it is.

It just became crystal clear what this is all about and it has NOTHING to do with Monica. Bingo!

[alp227]

181. The problem is when the two adults are from different levels of a workplace hierarchy.

So any claims of consent between the two immediately become questionable, if one adult has authoritative power over the other, for instance Clinton being Lewinsky's boss.

[Gravitycollapse]

18. Let's see what's in the OP: Slut shaming, female hysteria myth...hmmm what else...

Having your life splayed out and razed because you gave a blowjob to a married man is grossly disproportionate punishment.

[MoonRiver]

20. Monica is the one who's putting herself out there.

Also, where in my OP did I say "slut?"

[Gravitycollapse]

24. She's kept silent for more than one and a half decades and is finally telling her story...

Which, might I remind you, no one gave a single shit about at the time of the controversy. No one cared about her wellbeing.

All of her usefulness as a political commodity was shucked away and then she was tossed aside like a piece of trash.

Her reputation was irreparably damaged vastly beyond anything the Clintons suffered. And she will be known forever as the sexual plaything of a sitting president despite that not even remotely being a true reflection of what actually happened.

The trope of calling her manipulative or an operative or promiscuous has worn extremely thin and is nothing more than political pandering and slut shaming. You don't need to use the word slut for it to be slut shaming.

[MoonRiver]

36. I didn't state or imply that she is a slut.

I clearly said that Bill Clinton also made a poor choice. Monica's circumstances were obviously different from President Clinton's. But she does seem to be blaming the media for what happened to her after the affair, when in fact these circumstances are the result of HER poor choices.

[Gravitycollapse]

46. Let's see, you called her delusional and completely undeserving of sympathy or consideration.

Essentially laying the entire blame for the media firestorm at her feet.

When you reconstruct a woman's identity as a slut and then blame her for that reconstruction, that is called slut shaming. That isn't simply an implication on your part. It's an indictment. One which is entirely undeserved.

And now I'll say what really needs to be said because this is why you wrote your OP: You're pissed off it all made Bill Clinton and the Democrats look bad and now you need to validate that anger by turning Lewinsky into a temptress.

You don't think the motivation for all of the vitriol directed at her on this website is transparently obvious?

[MoonRiver]

49. I'm not angry. Not at all.

I am just calling it as I see it. Monica screwed up her life with bad choices and now she's trying to blame the media. She may have ulterior motives regarding her former rival. I don't know but am a little suspicious. Maybe she just wants to make money from the publicity. If so more power to her. Me thinks you do protest too much.

[Texasgal]

51. The issue here is that

you are not including the other part of the story. BILL. It takes TWO.

Me thinks you do protest too much.

[MoonRiver]

55. Didn't I state that he also made a poor choice?

I'm not protesting anything.

[Texasgal]

71. Your OP focuses on Monica

right?

[MoonRiver]

85. Yes, because she's making herself news.

[Gravitycollapse]

60. You're angry and afraid this may damage future elections for Democrats.

And you're mad it made Democrats look bad 16 years ago.

You think I don't know why this is making Democrats so angry? You think everyone can't see the reasons behind responses like yours?

You want her to go away. You want her to keep her mouth shut. Not because you don't care but because you care too much about the consequences.

[MoonRiver]

86. I don't care what she does. My OP was simply an observation.

[Gravitycollapse]

144. There is no such thing as an OP that is simply an observation.

The very concept of an original post in a forum is to invoke support, discussion and, very often, controversy. OPs are observations which demand an audience and that, in the strictest sense, is attention seeking. That doesn't mean it's bad. But owning up to the nature of this website is critical if you want anyone to think you're being sincere in any capacity.

[MoonRiver]

190. My observation was that she made a poor choice that resulted in consequences

she doesn't like. Bill Clinton also made a poor choice with consequences he did not like. Maybe there is a higher moral lesson here, but I certainly did not expressly go there in my OP.

[MADem]

184. No. That's not quite true. She has spoken. She did an interview with Barbara Walters, and she

wrote a book. She also used her notoriety to make some money on HSN, IIRC, selling handbags or something on those lines and doing the "Jenny Craig" as well. She hasn't been Kardashian-esque, but she has put herself out there every now and again in a reasonably judicious fashion.

On March 3, 1999, Lewinsky was interviewed by Barbara Walters on ABC's 20/20. The program was watched by 70 million Americans, which ABC said was a record for a news show.[27] She cooperated with Andrew Morton in his writing of Monica's Story, a biography of her life including her side of the Clinton affair.[27][28] The book was published in March 1999 and also was excerpted as a cover story in Time magazine.[27][28] Lewinsky made about $500,000 from her participation in the book and another $1 million from international rights to the Walters interview, but was still beset by high legal bills and living costs.[29] Lewinsky made a cameo appearance as herself in two sketches during the May 8, 1999, episode of NBC's Saturday Night Live, a program that had lampooned her relationship with Clinton over the prior 16 months.
By her own account Lewinsky had survived the intense media attention during the scandal period by knitting.[29] In September 1999, Lewinsky took this interest further by beginning to sell a line of handbags bearing her name[30] under the company name The Real Monica, Inc.[29] They were sold online as well as at Henri Bendel in New York, Fred Segal in California, and The Cross in London.[29][30][31] Lewinsky designed the bags—described by New York magazine as "hippie-ish, reversible totes"—and traveled frequently to supervise their manufacturing in Louisiana.[29]
At the start of 2000, Lewinsky began appearing in television commercials for diet company Jenny Craig, Inc.[32] The $1 million endorsement deal, which required Lewinsky to lose 40 or more pounds in six months, gained considerable publicity at the time.[29] Lewinsky said that despite her desire to return to a more private life, she needed the money to pay off legal fees and that she believed in the product.[33] A Jenny Craig spokesperson said of Lewinsky, "She represents a busy active woman of today with a hectic lifestyle. And she has had weight issues and weight struggles for a long time. That represents a lot of women in America."[32] The choice of Lewinsky as a role model proved controversial for Jenny Craig, and some of its private franchises switched to an older advertising campaign.[29][33] The company stopped running the Lewinsky ads in February 2000, concluded her campaign entirely in April 2000, and paid her only $300,000 for her involvement.[29][33]
Also at the start of 2000, Lewinsky moved to New York City, living in the West Village and becoming an A-list guest in the Manhattan social scene.[29] In February 2000, she appeared on MTV's The Tom Green Show in an episode in which the host took her to his parents' home in Ottawa in search of fabric for her new handbag business. Later in 2000, Lewinsky worked as a correspondent for British Channel 5 on the show Monica's Postcards, reporting on U.S. culture and trends from a variety of locations.[29][34]
In March 2002, Lewinsky, no longer bound by the terms of her immunity agreement,[29] appeared in the HBO special, "Monica in Black and White", part of the America Undercover series.[35] In it she answered a studio audience's questions about her life and the Clinton affair.[35]
Lewinsky was the host of the reality television dating program, Mr. Personality, on Fox Television Network in 2003,[24] where she advised young women contestants who were picking men hidden by masks.[36] Some Americans tried to organize a boycott of advertisers on the show, in protest of Lewinsky capitalizing on her notoriety.[37] Nevertheless, the show debuted to very high ratings,[36] and Alessandra Stanley wrote in The New York Times that "after years of trying to cash in on her fame by designing handbags and other self-marketing schemes, Ms. Lewinsky has finally found a fitting niche on television."[38] The ratings, however, slid downward each successive week,[39] and after the show completed its initial limited run, it did not reappear.[40] The same year she appeared as a guest on the programs V Graham Norton in the UK, High Chaparall in Sweden, and The View and Jimmy Kimmel Live! in the U.S.[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Lewinsky

I'll bet, if she had it to do over again, she would have stayed in the East Wing typing that boiler plate correspondence and not gone anywhere near the Oval Office...but there are no do-overs. Life sometimes doles out a tough lesson or two. Some we can overcome, some stick with us. If it doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger.

FWIW, I don't think she is some sort of "harlot" or "schemer" or anything of that nature. I think she was a young adult who was a bit immature and , like many young adults, felt immortal and just didn't see the potential consequences of her conduct. Put her together with a guy that she fantasized about, a guy who never met a woman he didn't like, who thought with something other than his brain when the mood hit him, and who was incredibly, indeed BRAZENLY intemperate and a real risk-taker when it came to carnal matters, and there you had a perfect storm.

If we're to assign "blame," like that would make a difference, the blame always conveys to the senior person in the interaction, the one with the authority--and there's no one more senior than the POTUS. That's the way it works in the military, and that's one of the things that I think translates well to the civilian milieu.

[Texasgal]

25. As if Bill wont?

You don't think he'll put himself 'out there" to help win Hillary the presidency?

[TroglodyteScholar]

26. Don't you know?

Putting any amount of responsibility on a woman who willingly has an affair with a powerful man...well, that's just outrageous misogyny! If you really believe in equality, you'll acknowledge that women are simultaneously strong and helpless to make any decisions for themselves. Jeez!!

Hooh. Sorry about that. I prefer to give women some credit.

[Texasgal]

32. Oh what a pant load.

No one is saying that she was not in every way complacent of bad choices. What is being said is that she has had to pay the most.

Bill has gone on to be a money making much loved machine. Monica? Not so much. Her red letter is too big. UGH.

[Gravitycollapse]

35. I suppose it never occurred to you that she might have had sex with him...

Because she liked him? Or wanted to simply fulfill some sort of sexual need?

Without a single moment of thought the entire world turned her into a whore for a powerful man. There's a difference between acknowledging her culpability and slut shaming. Learn the difference.

[intaglio]

179. Failing to put any amount of responsibility on a guy you idol worship

You know, the man with the power in the relationship, is mysogyny

[truebluegreen]

19. I do not care. I didn't care then, I don't care now.

I felt sorry for Hillary and Chelsea, as people, to have it play out in such a public way but in the context of the presidency I did not and do not care.

imho it was totally irrelevant.

[JustAnotherGen]

189. Thank you

I'm another one right there with you. I don't care what my contemporary did back then - and I certainly don't care now.

[malaise]

23. To be kind

Fugg Monica Lewinsky - did she save that blue dress - and if she did why?

She must have run out of money to crawl out for some more of the publicity that she's bawling about.

[MoonRiver]

27. Malaise, you always know how to get to the heart of the situation!

[malaise]

42. My brother was visiting recently

and was telling hubby that I was always brutally frank - he likes the word blunt for me.

[MoonRiver]

43. You're frank with a fun twist!

Plus you are always honest. Got to love that!

[malaise]

47. LOL

I do laugh a lot and call it how I see it - it doesn't win Miss Congeniality but I never wanted that title .

[misterhighwasted]

30. Well stated.

*

[chillfactor]

29. OMG! Do we really need links about a long DEAD story?

good grief.....give it up already!

[customerserviceguy]

148. If it's an "old story"

then why did Beyonce make reference to ML in a recently released song? While Lewinsky has no right to silence Beyonce, or even recover damages for defamation, she certainly has the right to respond to the use of her name in a song in a pejorative way.

[Neoma]

31. Who gives a shit anymore? Honestly. That was 17 years ago!

She had sex with a powerful person and we'll just pretend that she was the only mistress Clinton had, right?

I don't think consenting sex should ruin a person. The fact that it did says a lot about our culture, and it's not in the good way.

[Texasgal]

34. Geez... no shit!

Crazy how this is still an issue!

[Neoma]

44. I know partially why...

Part of it started the study of body language in it's miniscule detail. There's a historical footnote there.

[Niceguy1]

183. in any other context

She would be a homewrecker. She knew he was married. They both are equally wrong. ..

[Neoma]

210. And that's the entire world's business STILL because?

[LittleBlue]

33. If Hillary runs, I wonder if she'll write a book and cash in

Sounds like she doesn't need money.

Always felt bad for her. If she had given oral to the French president, nobody would care because mistresses are normal over there.

[Nye Bevan]

62. She and Hillary should appear on Oprah together, and hug each other and stuff.

Imagine the ratings.

[Nye Bevan]

48. There once was a gal named Lewinsky

There once was a gal named Lewinsky
Who played on a flute like Stravinsky
'Twas "Hail to the Chief"
On this flute made of beef
That stole the front page from Kaczynski.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Said Bill Clinton to young Ms. Lewinsky
"We mustn't leave clues like Kaczynski.
Since you look such a mess,
Take the hem of your dress
And wipe that stuff off of your chinsky".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Lewinsky and Clinton have shown
What Kaczynski must surely have known:
That an intern is better
Than a bomb in a letter
Given the choice of how to be blown.


Ah, those were the days. Wouldn't it be great if lying about a blowjob was the worst thing W ever did?

[Blue Owl]

54. Ah yes, the New Yorker limerick contest winners, right?

[Louisiana1976]

67. .......

[LittleBlue]

98. Holy shi-

me = dead

[Skip Intro]

121. Jury Says Leave It.

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Although I enjoy reading poetry now and then, this here is very sexist and misogynistic.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue May 6, 2014, 11:12 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Limericks have never been known for their political correctness. I don't see the misogamy or sexism.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Very, very few Limericks are not sexist and misogynistic, and here's one:

Writing a Limerick's absurd,
Line one and line five rhyme in word,
And just as you've reckoned
They rhyme with the second;
The fourth line must rhyme with the third.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Obnoxious.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry, I can't vote to hide that work of art. It's about specific people, not groups of people - genders, races, ages, etc. I vote LEAVE IT. SI
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bawdy is not the same as sexist
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Voting to hide but only because Stravinski was a pianist, not a flautist. I cannot in good conscious be a party to historically inaccurate limericking.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Nye Bevan]

137. Thanks. Whoopsie by Juror 7 there, looked like he or she wanted to hide.

So it really should have been 3-4 to leave. I would like to thank jurors 1, 2, 5 and 6 for their diligent jury service and intelligent verdicts. Also my wife, for standing by me for so many years. And my kids, who should be sleeping right now.

[Bobbie Jo]

141. Speaking of W

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Enthusiast]

187. I remember that one. I thought it was funny at the time.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. ***

[WillyT]

57. Yeah... It's All The "Slut's" Fault... Cause Men Just Can't Help Themselves Don'tcha Know...

Where the hell am I ???

[Nye Bevan]

61. I guess you have to admit there was a teeny tiny imbalance of power in that relationship,

with him being the leader of the free world and all, and her a lowly intern at the bottom of the totem pole. Normally DU would be quite sympathetic to a young woman in that situation but when someone embarrasses a Democratic president a different set of rules kick in.

[WillyT]

65. Word !!!

[840high]

94. ...^ that

[distantearlywarning]

97. He should take responsibility for his behavior.

So should she. He didn't make her do it either. She made her own life choices and has to live with the consequences.

[WillyT]

99. What Consequences ??? - IT's NOBODY Else's Business !!!

It's between two people... Bill and Hillary... and NOT YOU!

[distantearlywarning]

100. Not if he's the president of the US.

They tried to impeach him over it. That made it everyone's business.

And like it or not, some of us still adhere to a moral standard where fooling around with a married person is considered to be disgusting and shameful behavior. If she took flack over that, she had only herself to blame.

[WillyT]

105. She Was 19, And An Intern... He Was The Most Powerful Person On The Planet...

Power imbalance much ???

[dsc]

131. she was 21 and an employee

and no that doesn't make it a whole lot better but facts are facts. If she is 40 now, she was born in 74, making her 21 in 95 and 22 in 96.

[WillyT]

134. Thank You For The Correction... Makes All The Difference, No ???

[dsc]

135. well to be fair a 21 year old is considered a full adult

while a 19 year old isn't. I also think there is a difference between an intern and an employee.

[WillyT]

138. Depends On The State... And I Ain't Defending Anyone... My Problem Is...

If we determined that the best person to become POTUS...

Was a one legged, lesbian, blind, Eskimo... waiting for a gender assigment procedure...

We wouldn't even consider it... regardless of how they talk the talk.

[dsc]

139. In no state can a 19 year old drink

so in no state is a 19 year old a full adult.

[SummerSnow]

64. Shes disgusting. I remeber she had a line of handbags and she was promoting them on HSN

only in this country you can fool around with someones husband and you become an instant celebrity. She has no shame. The Rethugs claim they are the party of family values . They have never publicly shamed her into what she did, they only went after Bill Clinton. I'm not excusing him either , but they try to fault Hilary for this, shes innocent.They're trash. Now she wants to blame the media? Wtf ?

[Texasgal]

72. They only went after Bill?

Really?

She is known as the scarlet letter queen! Bill seems to be doing just fine! WTF?

[SummerSnow]

104. Yes, the conservatives went after Bill Clinton. if they went after Monica it was for show.

[krawhitham]

66. BS, Monica Lewinsky's life was ruined while Hill used it as a springboard for her political career

Chelsea yes was a victim, but Hill knew what kind of man Bill was and helped him cover up affair after affair for years

[Logical]

89. Ruined? How? nt

[moriah]

110. So you agree with this idiot?

[otohara]

80. Agreed

Gawd almighty this is nauseating

[RainDog]

82. I only posted in this thread b/c her post was hidden

but this thread is full of

[Gore1FL]

73. It made her millions

I hope one day I'll screw up that bad.

[The Midway Rebel]

83. She sure did leave the White House...

With a wad of Bill's.

[Gore1FL]

88. I salute you!

[Feron]

76. Clinton was the one that made the mistake..

when he decided to think only with his dick. It doesn't matter what Monica's intentions were. Clinton made the vows to be faithful to his wife, not Monica, and he freely decided to break them as he had many times before. He slept his way around Arkansas before going to Washington.

If it weren't her, it would've been someone else. Monica's biggest mistake, other than getting involved with Clinton, was in trusting anyone in that shark tank.

Not to mention that a president getting sexual favors from an intern is more than a little unseemly. If it were a generic Republican president instead of Clinton, would you still spew the same bile towards Monica? Or is that only reserved for people who embarrass politicians on your "team"?

It was wrong of the media to drag Monica like they did. Slut shaming is never okay. Let's put the blame where it belongs and that is on the person who cheated-Clinton.

[RainDog]

81. Feminists Don't Slut Shame

or hold double standards for behavior.

what tammywhammy said - even tho the post was hidden. She was telling the truth.

[marshall]

84. Cherchez la femme?

Last edited Wed May 7, 2014, 07:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Many a good family man has been taken in...

[RainDog]

87. LOL

So, Gennifer Flowers also led Billy astray?

please stop this misogynist crap.

(pssst - he admitted he had an affair with Flowers years before... stop blaming women for men's decisions)

[moriah]

124. While I disagree with the post you responded to... what, Bill's just so good women's panties....

... magically fall off without any choice on their part?

[RainDog]

128. cherchez la femme

is an expression that says a woman will lead a man to do bad things.

it's blaming.

I'm not defending Monica or Bill. I don't care what they did. Hillary knew about his habits before he won the presidency, so I really have a difficult time here with all this deflection of his behavior onto her.

[mckara]

143. I Was a Jury Member for Your Comment

I thought you were just making a quite humorous pun. Our colleagues need to lighten up a little bit.

[RainDog]

147. someone alerted on my comment?

wtf?

I was explaining the meaning of the phrase, used above.

I swear, sometimes people here are... just so... incredibly... incredible.

Or maybe someone was hoping to hide one of my posts for other reasons. who knows.

This is why I stick to one issue here, mostly, b/c the b.s. isn't worth my time for so much of what passes for discussion.

eta - maybe it was the original post in this thread that used the expression?

[Warpy]

159. She wasn't a part of the affair so she was completely blameless

and I honestly don't care what her husband did with an overheated groupie. The part that offended me was the witch hunt over it by Republicans and a few pious Democrats, most of whom were trying to deflect attention away from their own tacky affairs.

The whole thing should have been limited to the people involved since there were no national security issues in play.

However, woman shaming and blaming is all part and parcel of the Republican war on women. Anyone who posts this shameful phrase is helping them out.

[RainDog]

163. what does that have to do with what I said?

again - I was explaining what the phrase meant in context when it was used, above.

I wasn't blaming Hillary for anything.

[cyberswede]

116. Because men clearly have no free will of their own.

[Reter]

90. True, but the cheatee is not as bad as the cheater

If a married person has an affair with someone who's single, I find more fault in the married person. Before you ask, yes, I do find them both wrong.

[moriah]

107. I'll always give the benefit of the doubt that they were hoodwinked into it.

But in this case, she wasn't.

[wheniwasincongress]

108. Monica is a woman who

has spent half her life known as the woman who sexually serviced a President, those events and words ("dress" and "cigar&quot tied to her, has been made fun of for her weight - and this will all continue the rest of her life. She will be forever considered the fat oral sex dress woman. It takes great strength to not let that overcome and ruin your life, and I hope she has found that strength.

No matter what age she was or could have been, it was 100 percent Bill Clinton's decision to engage sexually with her. It's trashy on her part, but she is at no fault. It is fully his. He knew he flattered her, and she was too young to recognize his moves. The relationship is also entirely irrelevant to Hillary and any possible Presidential campaign.

How many people are quick to trash Monica but scowl at any jokes or references made towards Bill Clinton about their relationship? Who here thought the "give Bill Clinton a cigar when his grandchild is born" joke was low, but easily trash Monica in these threads?

I imagine it is hard for Monica to find a job - a quick search and all I can find is that she recently went back to school. Anyone know? Perhaps these interviews are a way to procure money and to take a piece of herself back.

I wish her luck and happiness. I don't think I would have made it this far if I were her.

[moriah]

118. You really think she had no responsibility for what happened?

None?

She *knew* he was married. Bill was and presumably still is a scuzball when it comes to the bedroom. But fuck this suggesting that the "other wo/man" is somehow less culpable for an affair than the person who took the vows when they KNOW someone's married. They have every other *single* person to choose from provided all consent, they don't have to aid and abet the destruction of a marriage.

Monica had a choice. She wasn't forced into anything. She says that herself, and she admits the choice was a bad one.

Now, none of this should have been up for public consumption in the first place -- I had no need to never look at cigars the same way again. But an affair with the President? Yes, if it comes out, sadly that's going to be made news. She should have known better. He should have known better. If she didn't want the notoriety that came with her decisions, maybe she should have made a different one.

[Warpy]

112. I said at the time, she should have moved to France

Not only would she be forgiven, they're not nearly as hypocritical about sex, but her notoriety would likely have landed her a husband with a title.

She can't move on because she thinks she should have been the trophy wife and it didn't work.

[Beausoir]

113. I wonder why she is inserting herself back into the spotlight after all these years.

I think she handled herself as best as she could back in the day. She was stupid and young and was sucking the dick of the President of the United States...willingly.

Why she has "chosen" to bubble up to the top again remains to be seen.

I'm betting it has to do with money and Hillary.

[RainDog]

115. For all you know

Hillary's campaign managers want to have this moment now, rather than later, knowing people like so many on this thread and others are going to have vapors over this.

[Beausoir]

120. What nonsense. Are you claiming that Hillary forced Monica to get all dressed up in virginal white

and give an interview?

You really believe that kind of bonkers conspiracy shit?

[RainDog]

123. Since Skinner already posted the same thing

maybe you should take up the conspiracy claims with him, not me.

If you think political campaigns don't try to do damage control - you are gullible beyond words.

[Beausoir]

133. So, you believe that Hillary forced Lewinsky to dress up in a white dress and give an interview?

You really believe that.

You really believe that.

[RainDog]

136. give it a break

stop lying about what I said.

I'm done with this. if you don't like it that someone might think politicians try to deal with potential news freak outs - wear yourself out with your asinine remarks - but you can do it with someone else.

[customerserviceguy]

151. Her name has bobbed to the surface lately

First, there's that Beyonce song (see my post #148), and the Diane Blair papers that reveal Ms. Blair's recollection of Hillary's comments about ML being a narcissistic loony tune. She has the right to answer both of them.

Let's face it, we all know the reich wing is going to attack Hillary for the next two and a half years on her handling of the affair. If ML wanted to go back and try to live a normal life (if that's even been possible since 1998) she certainly won't be able to for another decade or more, as her name will again be synonymous with what she did so many years ago. Why wouldn't this be the right time to get her own point of view out, especially after a decade and a half of contemplation about all that it's changed her life?

Yes, the reich wing will eat it all up, but even if she locked herself away with Salman Rushdie, Monica Lewinsky's name will get dragged through the mud for the next thirty months. If she wants to be part of the discussion on that subject, I'm not going to be the one who says she should be muzzled.

The mistake(s) that were made by the affair have not been too disastrous for the Clintons, but they have for ML and for the rest of us who had to live with the GWB administration. For all his flaws, Al Gore would have been a better President, and if the affair had not occurred, he just might have had that chance.

[Iggo]

117. I'll say the same thing about Clinton that I said about Tiger Woods:

He knew he was married when he woke up that morning.

And now I'm done talking about it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

126. Apparently four out of seven democrats agree... Leave Monica Alone!!

I count six hidden posts?

We mustn't say mean things about any of the people who brought us GW Bush.

[cyberswede]

142. Slut shaming is despicable, no matter who the target is. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

149. At least one of those was a new troll. Another was actually someone calling out slut shaming.

So maybe you should actually look into why posts are hidden rather than pull an answer out of thin air? I realize that isn't consistent with the false narrative you want to further but you have to understand everyone here can read things posted on this website.

[lumberjack_jeff]

217. She went to the White House boasting to her friends of earning presidential knee-pads...

... did exactly that, kept the trophy as proof, then told her friends and the press.

And I'm supposed to be sensitive to her feelings? Fuck that. She should feel ashamed.

As should everyone here who remembers the 2000 election and the subsequent decade yet rushes to her (and Ralph Nader's for that matter) defense

[madinmaryland]

127. She did make a poor choice, regardless of what the Linda Tripp's may be saying.

I'm sorry, but life is full of choices. We are all human beings. PERIOD.

And Ms. Lewinsky made the choice that she did.

[Zambero]

130. Not a victim. Not then, not now.

A highly intelligent and determined 21 year old woman somehow managed to connive her way into the president's presence, unescorted. She knew what she was after, knew that her intended target was reputed to have a certain weakness, had a plan, and put it into action. Is it a stretch to perceive her as the aggressor in this situation? Once the media got hold of the story, they did precisely what the media would have been expected to do. Sorry Monica, you may be plenty smart but lacking in good judgment and common sense. End of story.

[Nye Bevan]

145. That scheming temptress. That evil seductress. That brazen hussy.

Viciously exploiting poor old Bill's completely natural male urges.

In times past she would surely have been burned at the stake.

[moriah]

161. It doesn't matter if she came on to him, he still should have said no.

Just as it doesn't matter that Bill apparently has this magic charisma to get *all* these women to sleep with him -- they knew he was married, THEY should have said no.

That's all it boils down to, and I don't know why people here insist on trying to shift blame to one side or the other. They were both equally culpable, and saying that is not "slut-shaming".

[rudolph the red]

132. She had sex with the President

He was in the position of power.

[Raine1967]

140. I wonder this: Why do people say that Monica is a rival to Hillary?

It's strange to me.

This was not a sport. It was an affair. I don't believe Monica had relations with Bill because Hillary was a rival.

I have only read excerpts from the upcoming interview, and from what I have read she isn't stuck, she acknowledges what happened. (I need to read her whole article, that option could change) I have never viewed Lewinsky s a victim of Bill Clinton, but I always thought she was dragged thru the much of a newly emerging WWW.

We now call the ww the internet.

(Oh and Drudge Report looks the same as it did back when this was one of the very first political scandals to be discovered on-line.)

She made a poor choice, so did President Clinton. The world didn't need to know this.

I don't believe she is looking for sympathy. I think she is just speaking her truth.

[marshall]

202. Her interview was with Vanity Fair

All the reporting seems to be pointing to that interview and it's contents. I don't know who is behind that magazine.

[YoungDemCA]

158. The responses in this thread are eye-opening...

Yet another example of the misogynistic culture we live in.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

160. The "shameful" part was Clinton's pathetic attempt to cover his sorry ass.

[MohRokTah]

162. DU Rec

I also love how DU falls for the rightwing bullshit every time.

[Comrade Grumpy]

170. This thread is a disaster. Multiple hidden posts, and failed silly alerts, too.

What is it about these threads?

[dipsydoodle]

192. What is it about these threads ?

Its purely the subject matter and its bearing on a specific political party. There have been a few articles of late in the UK press too on the matter.

[muriel_volestrangler]

195. It's a perfect storm for DU - a Dem president about whom opinion is divided

(politically as well as sexually), a presumed future Dem presidential candidate about whom political opinion may be even more sharply divided, and consensual sex with an asymmetrical power relationship. All it really needs is Glenn Greenwald to complete the arguments.

[dipsydoodle]

198. That was why I didn't post the subject

from the earlier news items here - UK.

Last I heard of her she was at the LSE - about 8 years ago I guess. Dance friend studying there had seen her around and mentioned that in passing.

[MADem]

176. They didn't have sex.

They "fooled around" but they didn't "have sex" in the way most college kids interpret the term.

It was a dumbass thing for both of them to do, and it was many years ago. Bill is a senior citizen, and Monica is middle-aged. The people who might want to light a fire under this puppy, though, must be really ticked off because Monica's VF article has come out too SOOOOOON!!!!!

This entire topic will be hashed, rehashed, and hashed again before anyone declares their candidacy. That, no doubt, will disappoint the people who want to roll this up into little balls and pelt Hillary Clinton with it. So, I guess, just as well to run it all up the flagpole again now, and get it over with!

It was MORE than sixteen years ago, closer to eighteen when the affair or whatever one might call it was happening--I remember when the doggone Newt Gingrich Contract 'on' America crap put Monica in such close proximity to POTUS...all the GS-types were sent home in November after the continuing resolution authority had run out, and it was only military and people getting their salaries from non-appropriated funding streams (Monica, an intern, was one of 'em). They did another CR, and everyone came back to work after a week off for a couple of weeks, and then that CR ran out, so everyone went home from mid-Dec to early Jan 96. At that point they finally had agreement, but it was difficult for a time, there with no GS workers for a couple of weeks--fortunately it was around the holidays so we were used to doing more with less. THAT's when most of the, er, 'damage' happened.

Monica was eventually shuttled out of the WH proper over to the EOB to work Legislative Affairs, but she didn't work out there so they sent her to ASD PAO at the Pentagon...and that's where she met Linda Tripp.

The story reached critical mass, and Monica got her transactional immunity in 1998, but all the misbehavior occurred FAR earlier. And ironically, Mister Finger Wagging Scold himself, Newt Gingrich, was cheating on his wife/kicking up his heels with the woman who was his secret mistress, and who is now his wife, Helmet Haired Calista, in the Speeeekah's office, on the Speeeeekah's leather couch, and on the Speeekah's conference table, if the gossip is to be believed...!

It's a wonder any work got done at all--Newt was getting busier than Clinton could have hoped to do...

[msanthrope]

197. She kept the blue dress...I always found that fascinating. nt

[customerserviceguy]

201. She knew what happened in the case of other 'bimbo eruptions'

The woman would be labeled a lying nut case, like Paula Jones was. It was her insurance policy against plausible deniability.

Frankly, I'm surprised she hasn't sold it, some billionaire like Sheldon Adelson would probably pay her millions for it for his private collection. It's certainly worth at least half as much as he's going to dump on some Republicon loser who won't be able to either win the Rethug nomination or the general against Hillary.

Maybe mentioning the dress is part of the marketing plan for it. ML doesn't really have any other assets to sell.

[msanthrope]

207. It definitely shows foresight on her part...that she intended for her

tryst to be known.

When she kept the blue dress Paula Jones had not filed her suit.

I always found the Lewinsky-Tripp-Coulter triangle very interesting.

[RainDog]

213. I think she was used by Tripp, etc.

But she may have been complicit from the start - who knows. If Republicans were setting a honey trap - it was up to Clinton to avoid it.

If you never read Joe Conason's book, The Hunting of the President, it's a good read.

Tripp was friends with Lucienne Goldberg, who was a mole on the McGovern campaign bus back in the day (and whose skeevy son wrote "Liberal Facism," an attempt to rewrite history.)

Ann Coulter was one of the "pixies" - a group of lawyers who worked constantly to find shit to fling at Clinton - hoping something would stick.

google Joe Conason/Salon - they should have articles in their archive b/c he was writing for them back then.

Hillary talked about a "vast right wing conspiracy." This is what she was talking about.

Personally, I think Democrats would do well to lay off on any name calling, etc. of Lewinsky and Hillary should take the high ground and note that young people sometimes do things that are improper when they're infatuated with someone powerful - but that time is past and it's time for the nation to move beyond these sorts of attempts to pit woman against woman.

[msanthrope]

216. Coulter wasn't just a 'pixie.' She wrote the definition of oral sex that Paula Jones's

lawyers then tried to trip the President up on at his definition....this was after Starr made Tripp available to Coulter.

She fucked it up so badly that Starr couldn't get a perjury charge to stick...so he had to go to a federal grand jury in DC and use those definitions.....and then he fucked THAT up so badly, that the DC gj refused to true bill.

At that point, all he was left with was the House.

[customerserviceguy]

242. Clearly, ML was used

but Bill Clinton should not have put himself in that position. At least if he had had a daliance with someone who was already somewhat practiced at keeping a private life private (some actress or other famous entertainment figure) then there would have been much less chance of a Linda Tripp finding out about the whole thing.

If Hillary throws her hat in the ring, she knows she's got to run this gauntlet at least one more time, and I guess it's just beginning now rather than later.

[MADem]

235. Quite a stretch from a corsage pressed between the pages of the family encyclopedia, certainly!

Or the ribbon from the prom program, or the ticket stubs from a romantic night out!!

I think she saved it as an oddball souvenir initially (and I don't believe that she simply forgot about it); I also think Tripp, the minute she learned of it, knew that it could be used as an element of proof and from there, let the games begin.

Starr and Tripp were revealed as total scumbags in this sorry tale--craven, base, shameless, mendacious and vindictive asswipes. By contrast, Monica--who wasn't stupid or naive, but was surely very immature in her outlook--looked like a lamb to the slaughter.

[LadyHawkAZ]

180. Let he who is without sin etc.

[steve2470]

191. You know, she was 22 when she did all those things

I did some really freaking stupid things when I was 22. Granted, she's not exactly the "best woman in the world" but I do think she's suffered tremendously from her mistake. She will always be remembered as the woman who did Clinton, rightly or wrongly. Quite frankly, if I was her, I would have changed my name and moved to Australia and started all over again. Her life, her choices, none of my business. I wish her well.

[hack89]

206. I hope Monica writes a book and makes the millions she deserves

if Bill Clinton can parlay a sexual affair and impeachment into millions then so should she. She owes nothing to the Clintons.

[Evergreen Emerald]

212. The fact that this crap is even being discussed on a liberal board

shows that the republican smear campaign of Hillary Clinton is working. They don't want her to run. This new and constant topic on right wing media (including MSNBC) is designed to continue the destruction of Hillary Clinton.

Stop feeding into the right wing propaganda by regurgitating and spewing the right wing bile.

[muriel_volestrangler]

233. How is "the real victims, as everybody knows, were Hillary and Chelsea Clinton" "feeding into ...

...the right wing propaganda by regurgitating and spewing the right wing bile" or part of "the republican smear campaign of Hillary Clinton"?

It's hard to see how the OP could be more supportive of Hillary.

[MineralMan]

214. How easy it is to get DU all worked up over something

that happened long ago. How sad, too.

We're far too easy to distract here, I think.

[Calista241]

219. Dave Chapelle

Dave had the funniest skit about Bill and Monica. Famous people cheat all the time, but Bill is so famous, she became famous for banging him.

[Orsino]

224. She's an intern, and he's the fucking president, and that's the subject line you go with?

She's the one who din't walk away rich, and that's your headline?

She's bitter fifteen years later, and this is the position you stake out?

[Douglas Carpenter]

225. AS long as they don't scare the horses - I don't care who has sex with who -

unless it involves someone who I want to have sex with. And at my age....

[FarCenter]

227. ++

[MH1]

238. But to the OP's point, maybe Hillary and Chelsea cared.

Of course I think it was the Big Dog who was the dog here ... as the supposedly mature adult, and in a position of power ... he is the one who betrayed his wife and kid. I can only get so annoyed with Monica. But she should acknowledge that she did wrong. OTOH, it's really not the business of the rest of us .... it should have been left between them back then, and then it wouldn't have to be rehashed now. (Disclaimer: I haven't actually read what Monica herself is saying now, just what everyone else is saying about it.)

[Douglas Carpenter]

239. I have no idea what you mean when you say, " she should acknowledge that she did wrong."

Nor do I have a clue what you are talking about when you say, "... he is the one who betrayed his wife and kid." I have no idea what their understanding was. Is there some credible source that can tell us that they could have never imagined him doing such a thing?

I suppose that both Bill and Monica both did something very risky that they should have known that it had the potential to be extremely politically explosive. But considering the nature of human sexuality - or not even just human sexuality; words like "wrong" or "betrayal" - I have no idea what those words mean. I suppose they went against the Bible if that's what you mean.

[MoonRiver]

240. And it would have been left to them back then,

if Monica hadn't just made herself, and her unfortunate liaison with Clinton, news again.