Just like all of a sudden a war on the subject of feminism broke out in 2013

[applegrove]

when the issue of equality had long been settled amongst democrats so too do we see a war breaking out on the issue of white privilege. I thought race was pretty much settled on the DU? Are these sockpuppets starting wars using unpalatable generalizations that will result in black and white (not shades of grey thinking) as the adult conversation turns into an adolescent one. Adults use details not generalizations.

[BainsBane]

1. "Race was settled"

Says who? You who don't experience racism? I would be surprised if many people of color agreed with you on that. Was it settled for Trayvon Martin? Well, yeah. I suppose it is in that he's dead. Racism is very much alive and well. It never went anywhere. Did you see the chart on racist ideas among Democrats and Republicans that was posted yesterday? There was very little difference between their statistical presence among the population based on party ID.

Feminism suddenly broke out in 2013? Hardly. Feminism broke out in major ways in the US in the nineteenth century and again at various points throughout the 20th century. You may have not paid attention until last year, but that's about you.

As for adult conversations, is there some reason you haven't read the threads on the subject to examine people's points of view? It doesn't appear you have. What do you mean by an adult vs. adolescent conversation? Would that be like don't say anything negative about Snowden or you're an authoritarian? Or Glen Greenwald is an asshole? Those don't strike me as terribly adult. Or do you mean a conversation among white adults who don't want to be troubled by issues "settled issues" like racism that aren't all about what interests you?

Clearly racism is not settled when people on DU get upset that these subjects are even discussed.

[arcane1]

3. I read that as "here on DU, it's settled and we all agree racism exists"

But I could be wrong

[BainsBane]

5. You mean like we agree Republicans suck

That war is bad and Wall Street bankers are crooks? Yeah. Should that stuff be silenced as well?

[arcane1]

9. I didn't read anything about silencing it, either

I think the OP was talking about the recent visitors arguing that racism doesn't exist, and that dems are racist for saying it does.

[applegrove]

10. Nope. I'm saying those that bait people...and then foment the arguement from both sides...

using generalizations to cause mayhem.....are sockpuppets. I have no problem with such people being shot down. We agree.

[NuclearDem]

11. If two of the privilege threads started recently weren't by star members

I'd agree.

There are Democrats who just don't get the concept of privilege, and some who actively deny it exists, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[applegrove]

7. I mean race was settled amongst democrats. Racism bad. Same with equality issues. Sure

there are differences in details but Democrats on the whole support equality. I'm saying the fight on feminism broke out on the DU in 2013 when there had not previously been a vicious battle. And right after the republicans lost due to the single female vote. That was sockpuppets on the right fomenting mayhem and division on the DU. I'm wondering if the same thing...war is being formented by the same sock puppets with regards to the issue of race.

[BainsBane]

12. No, I think not

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 03:47 AM - Edit history (1)

I think you should remember that we do have a few members of color on this site--very few, but some. That stands in stark contrast to the Democratic Party itself, in which people of color and women are the majority voting demographic. Clearly the denials that race is important or should be discussed shows the issue is far from resolved. The fact is people of color experience racism every day, and this site is not immune from it.

I have not been on DU for as long as you, but I'm told there were some heated battles about feminism before I joined. When members insist on telling feminists that their concerns shouldn't be discussed or aren't really political--even when the Vice President himself makes major speeches on cultures of rape on college campuses, that shows the issue is far from resolved. The same goes for racism. DUers are in general agreement on all kinds of issues, from how we don't like the GOP, Wall Street pilfering, war, etc. . ., but those issues are still discussed and people are not accused of being sock puppets or trolls for posting threads on those subjects.

From my observation of you on DU, I know you don't mean anything unkind by your post. I would, however, like to urge you to remember that this online community includes people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds who have different experiences and interests. Most of the discussions on racism take place within the ethnic groups, largely because members of color experience such hostility when they raise the issues in GD. Lately some of those subjects have been discussed in GD, and they are again met with charges of flamebaiting and sockpuppetry. I urge you to consider the perspectives of the non-white members of this board and try to think about what it must be like to have their concerns dismissed. You might also read threads in some of those groups do get a sense of how they experience these matters.

[applegrove]

13. I do not say race or sexism should not be discussed. I'm just wary of an all out

war seeded by generalizations.

[Obnoxious_One]

2. Well we certainly wouldn't want to talk about NSA spying

And our endless obsession with playing policeman of the world.

[NuclearDem]

6. And some people wonder why they have had a hard time finding allies.

"My cause is the only important one, and everything else is a distraction."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. War is Over.

If you want it.

[upaloopa]

8. For people like me who is 68 yrs old

these are not issues. We were taught about feminism and accept the tenants that we were taught back in the 60's through the 80's.
We lived through the civil rights movement and understand that white people especially white men were given privileges that minorities and women did not have. My first wife could not get credit in her own name in OH in the 70's. There was no title IX when I went to college. A bunch of us from a Catholic boys high school went to Columbus Georgia to meet with Black teens our age to learn what their life was like under segregation in 1964.
So it bugs the hell out of me when I see these OPs and my guess is they are from young people who did not experience what we did.
I was amazed a few months ago when some pics of the march to Selma and the lunch counter sit ins were posted. To us that is current history but some DUers posted that they find it hard to accept that the brutality that is shown in the pictures really took place in America.
I think there is quite an age gap here when it comes to those issues.

[sufrommich]

14. So conversations that you don't like are the result

of sockpuppets? Either you don't understand the meaning of "sockpuppet" or your purposely insulting other DUers,either way,this is Meta.

[Texasgal]

15. Applegrove,

you have been here since 2005 are you saying that feminist subjects just happened suddenly? In 2013?

No, I remember reading highly charged feminists threads way before 2013. It's not a war, it's a subject that needs discussion because it has not been "settled" at all.

Kind of a "generalization" no?

[applegrove]

18. I'm talking about all out war. There never was an all out war on the DU regarding feminism till

last year. I'm talking hate that spilled out over the bounds of the OPs. With people saying hateful things about each other in thread after thread. I'm hoping against hope we don't have 1) war 2) sockpuppets starting said war.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. A better question might be, why do these "settled" topics cause such rancor here?

Isn't that on its face evidence that there's still need for discussion even on a board for Democrats? That maybe Democrats aren't all on the same page on these issues?

[McCamy Taylor]

17. "Topics" break out for a lot of reasons. Sometimes it is PR from special interests.

The issue of pay parity---equal wages for women---hurts employers who rely upon pink ghetto workers, so they want to keep women oppressed. They do this by getting them pregnant young, denying them education and saddling them with a couple of children they have to support so that they have no choice but to work hard for crap wages. The war against Choice is being funded by Dixie Cup and Tyson.

Then there is Clinton and Warren. Anyone who supports a male Democratic presidential candidate in 2016 will just naturally want to bring up the issue of gender--as in "Americans like their president to have a Big Dick" which is absolutely true. Americans love a macho president. Bill Clinton's celebrated virility endeared him with the independents who otherwise did not care about politics. While it was taboo to discuss race during the 2008 race, America--and the rest of the world for that matter---still has an extremely high tolerance for sexism. So, if the Dems seem determined to run Mom For President, we can expect a backlash.