Aaargh. Wading into it: I'm grateful for my "white privilege". I wish everyone had it.

[cali]

Look, I could go on about this or that in my life, but none of that obviates the fact that I do have white privilege. I am not going to get stopped driving or followed suspiciously in stores or told I can't afford this or that at Barney's or wherever. I won't get a harsher sentence for a crime because of the color of my skin, etc. And yes, that's a big deal. Those things shouldn't be a privilege; that's the way it should be for everyone in this country, but it's not.

I think that's what people are saying when they assert that there is such a thing as white privilege, not that all white people have some wonderful background or life, not that they don't suffer injustice. There are, of course, other forms of privilege- class comes to mind. They're real too, but talking about white privilege is just another way of saying, there is still a lot of institutional racism in this country.


Editing Note: Because I agree with those who have pointed out, in this thread, that white privilege is not a useful turn of phrase, I've put it into quotes in the title. I believe that any phrase that can be so easily misconstrued by so many doesn't help in any way, shape or form, to foster a fruitful debate on institutional racism or to persuade people that it exists.

[steve2470]

1. It's painfully obvious to me that you are correct

I'm not defensive about white privilege. We white people need to help demolish it, and we progressives are doing that.

[malaise]

2. It's that simple n/t

[RainDog]

3. TBH

I think some here are trolling by pretending to be clueless. Maybe that's just because I find it hard to believe that some are so clueless, TBH.

... but I could provide links to demonstrate what I'm talking about.

If they don't actually attack someone, just continue to repeat variations on a theme of cluelessness... the only option someone seems to have is to ignore them, whether or not you do it "officially."

anyone who responds to evidence of privilege with the claim he doesn't need evidence to back up his claim really shares no common ground with "reality-based" Democrats, tho, TBH.

[Supersedeas]

7. same with those who deny other forms of privilege

[RainDog]

9. that's a given n/t

[Fumesucker]

4. It's a particularly tin-eared way of saying there is still a lot of institutional racism

I agree with your post, that appears to me to be the meaning of the phrase "white privilege" but it's a phrase that comes from academia and it's very easy for a non academic Caucasian who is struggling on their way down the oubliette of our society to take it the wrong way.

[cali]

5. I won't disagree with that at all. I don't think it's a helpful turn of phrase.

[Lizzie Poppet]

44. Agreed. It's needlessly confrontational.

In most cases, anyway (some folks won't get the point w/o a bit of confrontation).

A minimum wage (white) worker, struggling to get by on a serf's income and hoping the GOP doesn't yank their food stamp pittance out from under them, living one paycheck away from homelessness, is pretty damned likely to say fuck you" to any suggestion that they're privileged. Even those who will admit, upon reflection, the existence of white privilege will correctly point out that it hasn't done much for them in any material way.

Blurting out "check your privilege" to people in that sort of situation carries accusatory implications, a subtle (well...not really very subtle) way of saying "despite this advantage, you're a failure." That's downright GOP-like, to be blunt. For them, being free from the humiliation that racism heaps upon people of color (and that's a very real thing, don't get me wrong) is scant solace when you're worried about having enough to eat.

[Jackpine Radical]

55. Unfortunately, many whites at the bottom have been taught

to blame the "privileged" minorities (e.g. "welfare queens&quot for the misery of their own lives, so in those instances, the whole discussion becomes counterproductive. It's really sad that the oligarchs are able to propagate this sort of misdirected anger and division as such a powerful tool to keep the poor under their thumbs.

[AverageJoe90]

109. Sad but true.

And don't get me wrong: I do realize full well that the original creators of the term probably did indeed have nothing but noble intentions in mind. But sadly, the original meaning of the term has largely been obscured and the literal version has become the most popular.....and it's that version which has, sadly, become just another part of the problem.

[RainDog]

112. fwiw

I am saying this not in anger, but just as a simple expression of a thought that many people here share - and have expressed to you in one way or another.

Would you please stop posting on this site on threads about white privilege?

As a white person, I and others find it embarrassing to see your posts, so I am asking you as nicely as I can to please stop posting your concerns about the two-word phrase "white privilege."

I hope you will see the sincerity in my request.

It is borne from weeks of seeing others, males females, blacks, whites...in what is, really, the overwhelming response to you in regard to this issue when others try to explain the problem you create by a seeming inability to understand why your posts are offensive to many people - both white people and people of color.

You have told people who have PhDs in a field that they don't understand a topic but you do - while the truth is that you apparently don't. When others have asked you to provide some valid response from those within a field, your response has been that you don't need any because you are 23 and wise beyond your years.

Others beg to differ with your subjective understanding.

Thank you in advance for your consideration toward others here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

147. Those Whites on the bottom need an education in the truth....

what they have been taught is wrong....AND mollycoddling their precious sensibilities by "white-washing" (pun intended) the term to protect their feelings....THAT is counter-productive....How better to make them understand that those they have been "taught" to believe are privileged as you suggest are actually at a distinct DISADVANTAGE to them in the same "misery" as you called it. What better way to point out the obvious than with that term. Obfuscating it does not accomplish that....they will continue to think that minorities and women are their competitors and that if those folks get some relief...they are not losing any ground as a result! You want to change people that think like this? Shame them....because they SHOULD be ashamed to think like that....

[LanternWaste]

140. Is "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas" needlessly confrontational too?

Is "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas" needlessly confrontational too?

(Distinction without a difference here...)

[Lizzie Poppet]

151. Oh, yeah, those are totally the same thing.

Thanks for making me roll my eyes so hard I almost popped out my contacts.

[steve2470]

6. oubliette, great word lol nt

[Fumesucker]

10. I'm one of those weird kids who read the encyclopedia for fun..

[griloco]

23. it's a word? I thought she was French n/t

[RainDog]

8. one of the strongest arguments against its use

Is that it requires nothing but navel gazing or finger pointing - no common action, no unified front - just personal criticisms.

It aligns with neo-liberal pretense of action that, in fact, does not promote action.

iow, it's a perfect distraction for the Wall Street crowd - it keeps people arguing amongst themselves while the elites in financial sectors reek havoc on working people and Congress refuses to address inadequate wages.

This makes it perfect for those who are financially secure to find a way to pat themselves on the back for their enlightenment, while ignoring the actual concerns of people of any color who have faced financial catastrophe - one after the other - with the passage of NAFTA in the 90s to the present day.

So, for anyone who finds resonance with the above statements - your best strategy is to agree and move on.

[Fumesucker]

11. I may be imagining it

But I get the impression that those most enamored of the phrase seldom show up in any threads regarding the economic decline of the 99%.

Why that might be I really do not wish to publicly speculate about.

[RainDog]

13. I don't know

I generally don't participate on such threads.

The concept was made clear to me in the 80s/90s - I don't disagree with the concept - but find it has limited utility for actually achieving any sort of political action that can address the problems that people face based upon assumptions put to them b/c of the color of their skin or what exists between their legs, etc.

I dislike academic jargon in general - because I love language - and for that reason, I rarely find the term useful. It sounds like sloganeering for freshman orientation at this point.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. "...it's a perfect distraction for the Wall Street crowd..."

Exactly! While white privilege is certainly a very real thing, it's also being used as a wedge, a way of compartmentalizing and dividing what should be natural allies: white people and people of color who are being similarly screwed over by the oligarchs.

[pipoman]

14. It is constantly applied incorrectly by non-academic posters

Which is the biggest problem with it's use.

[Fumesucker]

15. I'm not an academic although I'm pretty good at parsing academic language if I care to

Academic phraseology often seems to be more about putting things in as opaque and inscrutable a manner as possible than it is about communicating succinctly.

[Orrex]

16. At this point in the process..

it seems to me that the people most inclined to use the idiom in casual discourse must be aware of the overwhelming likelihood that it will be misconstrued, yet the term is still in use.

In practice--and I've seen this many times--this has the effect of distracting from the actual issue and focusing instead on the differing interpretations of the term "privilege."

It's almost as if the point of the idiom is to perpetuate disagreement about its meaning, rather than to educate those who benefit from the "privilege" and who might actually be made to understand its role in others' lives.

[William769]

78. As a white male I disagree with you.

[William769]

83. I call it like I see it.

Could you give some examples?

[William769]

88. That person did not respond to me, you did.

Can you give examples in your own life?

[William769]

91. Well then you are not going to like this.

Good Bye.

[The Magistrate]

93. Cool Story, Bro....

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

164. Shouldn't that be "Cool Story, Sir...."? :-P

[The Magistrate]

165. I Am Not Polite To Everybody, Sir....

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

166. Sure, I just thought you could have your own internet meme. Of course we

would also need an appropriate graphic to go along with it. Unfortunately this one's taken.

[Orrex]

107. Golly! What did I miss?

[William769]

113. You missed a match if wits between MIRT & trolls last night.

MIRT 10, trolls 0.

[The Magistrate]

80. Thank You For The Laugh, Sir

"Throw back the little ones, and pan-fry the big ones.
Use tact, boys, and reason, and gently squeeze them."

[Damansarajaya]

145. +1 nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. Why? Because the words are truthful?

[Fumesucker]

51. Because it's ripe for misunderstanding and there are better and less divisive means of saying it

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. What's to be misunderstood

if you are White or Male....you WON'T be the victim of racism or sexism....

THAT is the privilege of being born White and Male

Its very simple (especially it seems to those that are not both White and male)...

If you took a poll of non-White males asking whether White Male Privilege exists.....what do YOU think the result would be? Thus it only seems to be White males that are bothered by the term...

[Fumesucker]

56. Try telling it to someone who has lost their job, their home and their family

Thanks to the greed of our 1% overlords..

If you want people to understand what you have to say you have to speak in language that doesn't feel like an attack on them and makes them feel even more like an utter failure than they already do. Bear in mind that everyone is the hero of their own story no matter what their sex, income, skin color or sexual orientation.

I'm pretty much a blue collar guy who can pass for redneck but has in some ways a beyond white collar education so I understand this, some white dude with bad teeth and a hernia he can't afford to have fixed who lives a rusty singlewide, drives a 74 Maverick hooptie and pumps septic tanks for a living (if he's lucky enough to have a job at all) is going to laugh in your face at best if you tell him how "privileged" he is.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. Has racism ended because we have a Black President?

Does that negate racism for the remainder of Black Americans? If one Black person is successful in life....does that mean that the racism the others experience is false? No....you understand THAT concept.

Now that also means that if some White males do not succeed in life....even though they have White male skin.....that doesn't mean it negates the experiences of sexism against females...nor does it negate the racism that Blacks experience....guess what that means? White male privilege STILL exists...even if a number of White males are in poverty too!

It is every simple....

You are a male and not likely to make 25% less than females doing the same jobs.....if you are White you are also not likely to be in poverty....13% of those in poverty are White....35% are Black and 33% Hispanic...you are also not likely to earn 29% less in salary vs Black men because of your skin color....

Therefore White Male Privilege exists....

anecdotal experiences of individuals do not change that....

[Fumesucker]

68. What does that have to do with what I said about speaking so people will listen?

I never so much as implied that racism or bigotry has ended or that "White Male Privilege" exists, indeed I stated that it does indeed exist in my very first post on this thread.

It appears to me that your objective in posting is not to persuade but rather to berate and belittle.

Your posts on this subject are not so much a broken record that repeats about every two seconds as a scratched CD that repeats in milliseconds.

If you want class solidarity of the 99% then you'll have to stop telling part of the 99% that they are even worse losers than they already feel like, the Republicans are feeding that part of the 99% a far more palatable message while simultaneously screwing them along with all the rest of the 99%.

It appears to me that you don't care that you are helping the Republicans divide the 99%, I really can't come up with an alternative explanation for your intransigent attitude about language that's very unhelpful in persuading whites who are part of the 99% and particularly white males of the 99% to join with the rest of their fellow 99%ers in resisting the economic devastation of their class by the 1%.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. You mean "speaking in such a way that White men will not have their sensitive feelings hurt"

there I fixed that for you......

[Fumesucker]

73. If you cut me do I not bleed?

We are all the same color inside, white men are no more or less sensitive on average than anyone else.

Or do you really think emotional characteristics are determined by melanin content and the presence or absence of a Y chromosome?

Funny how the same people who want a more sensitive, humane and caring society want one group to "man up".

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Some apparently are....

awfully thin skinned....(me thinks it could be a guilty conscience).

[xocet]

106. If one follows this thread, from the outside it appears

that you cannot accept the way others see the issue, because you appear (not have) to have a chip on your shoulder.

Basically, they are telling you that you should not antagonize people who you want to convince of something. Being needlessly combative with your intended audience (whether you are correct or not) angers those who you wish to convert to your way of thinking, puts them on the defensive and does not forward your cause one bit.

What, after all, is the point of speaking of privilege instead of speaking of injustice? If one wants to speak of privilege, one can make academic points with it and be totally correct. However, if one wants to convince others - by way of creating empathy and understanding - that things need to change, would it not be better to speak of injustice?

If one would rather speak of privilege than of injustice when discussing the ills of society with others outside of academe, one should probably re-examine one's motives for even having the discussion in the first place.

[lumberjack_jeff]

137. Exactly right. Is it privilege or injustice that we want to solve? n/t

[RainDog]

101. the point that people are trying to make

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 04:42 AM - Edit history (1)

is that those who insult men who do not, in fact, want to perpetuate male privilege is the same issue as those who do not want to perpetuate white privilege.

when they receive constant insults and derision, as you do here often, you accomplish NOTHING other than backslaps from others who want to do the same thing here.

you accomplish NOTHING to further the cause of female advancement by snarking at others on this board.

you accomplish NOTHING by pretending that everyone has to admit to the issue of male privilege either - because, in fact, many gains have been made without the acknowledgement of particular people.

if you want to post examples of male privilege - that's great - that's useful. however, to go down a thread merely posting insults does not do anything other than allow you to post insults.

and, frankly, I have seen you so "invested" in this idea that you insulted women and lawyers who tried to explain a legal concept by telling them they were denying your right to complain about male privilege - when the issue was a point of law. you insulted ljeff on the same thread even tho he demonstrated his support for women's right to abortion.

You know that moment I'm talking about - but it seems it didn't provide a learning opportunity for you - as you demonstrate here.

It did provide a learning opportunity for others, tho, to see this blindspot because you have a cliche to advance, no matter the actual content of a post or the gender of someone posting.

No one denies sexism exists, or racism exists and few deny privilege exists.

What people are saying is that some people's way of interacting here undermines the goals they claim to seek.

If people note this over and over - maybe they have something useful for someone to consider.

[Damansarajaya]

143. Ding! ding! ding! ding! winner!

We have a winner here, folks.

If the goal is to eliminate racism and have true equality--and I believe it is and should be--then telling whites how "great" their lives are is a very bad way to do it.

[pipoman]

12. If "white privilege" is another name for

"institutional racism", why don't we call it that? Privilege in the context you are saying should not be eliminated, those things should be afforded to all. It isn't privilege it is "institutional racism", and that should be eliminated.

[Major Nikon]

22. The whole idea of identifying social privilege is not to bring those who have it down

The idea is to encapsulate and respect diversity so that efforts can be taken to bring those who don't have it up to the same level as those who do.

Privilege differs from conditions of overt prejudice, in which a dominant group actively seeks to oppress or suppress another group for its own advantage. Instead, theories of privilege suggest that the privileged group views its social, cultural, and economic experiences as a norm that everyone should experience, rather than as an advantaged position that must be maintained at the expense of others. Rather than being something that is earned, privilege is something that is given to a person based on characteristics they are assigned at birth, such as cultural identity and class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_privilege#Group_role

[pipoman]

24. Yeah...

Maybe. . If it alienates those you wish to understand, it isn't helpful in solving the problem of institutional racism

[Eleanors38]

31. "white privilege" manifestly personalizes "institutional racism," and not

in a constructive way. The older IR (quite current in the 60s and later) is an attempt to show that the systemic "memory" of institutions work in a racially biased way, even if "white" people had changed individually. Though the IR expression grew tiresome, it at least allowed acknowledgment of (though no strategy for dealing with) the lingering "unseen" aspects of racism.

But even in the day there was "white guilt," an aspect of "guilt tripping," which was employed in understandable frustration, but also in a far more gratuitous manner and charged with moral intensity.

IMO, the same dynamic is at work now, using the more aggressive "white privilege." What often passes for discussion is really an interactive pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey game in which anyone who takes issue with "white privilege" is tagged with labels of Ignorance, Willful Blindness, Troll, or just plain Racist.

Central questions remain: If the "white guilt" or "shame game" is used by its practioneers as a change strategy, then have things changed for the better in terms of race over the last 50 yrs, and has this come about as a result of personalizing a societal problem?

[Supersedeas]

150. is it a personal construct or a social construct?

[Eleanors38]

152. The construction is a personalization of an already abstract,

though serviceable social construct; in either case, humans do the construction.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. BECAUSE White people do not realize that they ARE reaping the rewards of that privilege

as has been made PLENTY obvious by the reactions to it on a Liberal political forum.

[CANDO]

59. And the way you've chimed in about it demonstrates your overwhelming desire....

To aggressively shame and insult people who've never participated in racial biases in their entire lives. Does institutional racial bias exist? Yes. Does your axe to grind attitude help? No. And therein lies the problem with these divisive threads....it's used far too often for folks to demonstrate their passive aggressive nature and nothing else.

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. bullshit....speaking my mind on a political forum...

I DO know MEN are a privileged class....they are not likely to make 25% less than women doing the same job....therefore they ARE privileged...

I can therefore extrapolate that to be the same for those of us with White skin!

That is WHY I am "chiming in"....or speaking my mind.

[CANDO]

71. And also being obnoxious and insulting to boot!

Congratulations on making a negative difference!

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. oh yes....I just "convinced you against White Privilege"

I am sooooo sure.

I don't pull punches because it hurts White male egos....

And like I said....I don't have a problem with speaking the truth....I speak the truth and you just think its an insult.

[AverageJoe90]

104. "....I don't have a problem with speaking the truth...." But do you really? Or do you just THINK it?

[CANDO]

111. I don't know their agenda...

But I damned sure know it isn't "ending racism as an institution". When one of these numbskulls can come examine my life and point out to me anything I've ever been handed simply because I'm white and male, I'll be on board. And NO, because minorities face any number of race based institutional biases doesn't mean I'm "privileged", it means you are being discriminated against! And most certainly NOT BY ME! So keep on keeping on with your attacks against white males and see how far you keep pushing back your cause. There are ways to go about solving the problem, posting these asinine "white privilege" threads in some sort of masturbatory practice is not one of them. Here is where they need to start....acknowledge that one being discriminated against doesn't translate to someone else being "privileged". As I said earlier, it means people are being discriminated against. Attacking white males gets you nowhere, I can most assuredly promise you that.

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. You may be an exception to the rule...BUT that doesn't change the rule

just like having one Black President (he is also an exception) doesn't mean racism no longer exists....

Again some White males have their sensitive feelings hurt by the term that describes the situation exactly...

[CANDO]

120. I guess maybe you don't get it.

And for sure, you sure as hell don't get it that I've acknowledged racism does exist. But you also don't get it that because some people are discriminated against doesn't automatically imply those who don't or haven't are "privileged", as though they and their "privilege" are the culprit. To be able, for the most part, to not face discrimination is "normalcy". Yet it is somehow couched in terms as something to be held up by you and others who keep pushing the theme, as something abnormal and at fault and something needed taken away. I get it, institutional or societal biases and discrimination do exist. But don't come barking at everyday, normal white males as though we get up every day and continue to devise ways to keep the aforementioned transgressions going. I, as a white male, am not responsible for the institutional and/or societal biases that are out there. And you keep barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps you might find better results with your mission over at any number of conservative websites where you will find some of those white males who do support the continuation of said biases and discriminatory practices. Continuing to grind your axe at a liberal website is probably more alienating than helping.

[VanillaRhapsody]

148. If you do not have to overcome the hurdles of racism or sexism.....then you ARE privileged.

Period end of story....

I have NO axe to grind. I just believe in truth.....if you don't think you are advantaged by being a White male in this world....you SHOULD be shamed.....you deserve it.

[CANDO]

149. Wow, that is some heavy baggage you like to carry around.

Must be nice to blame your troubles on others. What do you propose I do to ease your burden? Ask others to discriminate against me? You love grinding the axe, yet you don't seem to offer any suggestions. Why is that? You rail against white men, yet ask what of us to lighten your burden. I'm a life long liberal who votes for the most liberal on the ballot. In my employment as a truck driver for a well known snack food producer, I have a female fellow driver who makes more per year than I do. I don't go around griping and seeking to drag her down to my level. Period, end of story. If it's your story, might as well stick to it!

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. No I know it....

I live it....I am a White female. I see both sides of that fence...

[CANDO]

123. You haven't convinced me one way or another.

What I know is that this term "privilege" doesn't seem to fit how I view my life's experiences. It's just an asinine concept being pushed by those who are on an admirable mission(ending institutional racism), yet don't know they are going about it wrongly. The way this terminology is being used is just wrong. Absence of discrimination is not privilege, its "normal" and the way things ought to be for everyone. And for those who wish to end discrimination to go after anyone who happens to be white and male seems to me to be exactly what you are supposedly professing to be against. I and many, many millions of white men find racism and discrimination to be an affront to mankind, so don't come after "all" of us as though we, and we alone are the culprits. I've seen black cops involved in stop and frisk scenarios against other minorities. Why are you not going after all black cops? Are they not responsible for their actions in perpetuating this discriminatory practice? Your snark comments regarding my ego and feelings are duly noted and appropriately filed under....? I thought it was about ending racism and yet you find time to help your cause(not) by attempting to ascertain my feelings and ego.

[NCTraveler]

121. +1

"it's used far too often for folks to demonstrate their passive aggressive nature and nothing else. "

[tecelote]

17. Many years ago I bought a pickup truck from a neighbor.

It had very dark tinted windows.

I drove to Denver quite often and at least half the time I would be pulled over due to the dark windows. Not once did I get a ticket. Most of the time, as soon as the policeman saw me they would simply say something like "Sorry, I thought you were Mexican".

[mopinko]

21. same thing around her, but

they are looking for blacks.
my daughter bought an old cop car, a black crown vic, ram bars, spotlight, the works.
she started getting pulled over all.the.time.
very popular car with the gang bangers, apparently. she also got a rock through her rear window.

[AverageJoe90]

18. I don't believe in white privilege myself, TBH(not anymore, anyway).

Yes, I think we can all agree that both institutionalized and street-level intrapersonal racism both remain a problem in this country. There's no doubt about that.

The only real problems I have with "white privilege" is that not only has it(or, rather, the literal version of said term) been used as a tool of attack against people but also, that it has indeed failed to educate the general public, even if it does resonate in some (usually more radical) progressive circles.

And yes, I too wish that people from *all* nationalities could enjoy not having to worry about any but perhaps the occasional brush with bigotry and being constantly harassed by crooked cops just because of what one looks like, etc. These are all RIGHTS.

[RainDog]

27. so the good news, then

is that there's no need for you to participate in any discussion of white privilege since you "don't believe it" - sort of like a creationist doesn't believe in evolution, with the same sorts of arguments put forth, with the same assumption that evidence is unimportant because you have formed an opinion that claims otherwise!

The entire point of discussing "white privilege" is to provide a critique of culture - in particular for those white people who operate within the cultural construct of white privilege - so, again, good news, because you do, in fact, understand what the purpose is - to overcome things like the recently posted data that indicated white people think they face more bias than people of color - when, again, it has been demonstrated, repeatedly, that this is not true.

It is seen as an attack because you did nothing to earn white privilege - the mere fact of your existence in this culture creates it. The use of the term white privilege is, indeed, meant to speak to those who are concerned about its existence - not the general (white) public who thinks it doesn't exist - while the general (people of color) public most definitely knows it does - so, again! you can rest easy knowing that you understand the concept of white privilege - you simply don't like it - as most white people do not because it makes them feel uncomfortable, if they're a basic, decent sort, because they don't want others to experience the degradation that goes along with assumptions made for no reason other than stereotypes that are not routinely applied to white Americans.

The brush with bigotry is more than occasional for people of color - as any of them could tell you - and have told you.

It doesn't require a cop to be crooked to harass someone when the society that cop operates within most always designates one or two groups as the sacrificial lambs to allow white people to justify their places in society at this time, no matter that an entire history exists where the same groups were targeted repeatedly.

The entire reason white privilege has been discussed is that the rights you think all should share in are not routinely shared by those who are not white.

But since you, as an individual cannot change this circumstance - it's easier to pretend it doesn't exist or it's only about personal criticism, rather than an attempt to examine culture by noting assumptions you get to make simply by the color of your skin.

Which gets to this point - if you dislike the idea of white privilege because it's criticism, but agree that all should have equal rights to be free of harassment or negative assumptions with no proof of the same - how do you think we should address the reality that this harassment and daily negative interaction occurs for people of color?

How can you address the need for white society to recognize the rights of people of color?

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. You are White and YOU don't suffer for your skin color or your gender...

that is your privilege...

As a White female.....I understand this terminology.

Ever notice that it is mainly White men who do this denying?

[AverageJoe90]

41. "Ever notice that it is mainly White men who do this denying?" You and I seem to have different.....

observations and experiences in this regard. I've seen liberal women and People of Color disagree with "white privilege", as well, or at least the literalist version so endeared by the Tumblr crowd, anyway.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. No we don't....one of us is just in denial...

one of us is both White and male....guess which one is in denial?

[AverageJoe90]

48. "guess which one is in denial?" Not me. nt =)

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Yes you are...AND

you just don't like the term BECAUSE you want to be allowed to believe that reverse racism and reverse sexism exist...

[AverageJoe90]

52. Um.......what?

Just off the record here, I don't believe in "reverse" racism. Because for there to be a "reverse", such would imply that "regular" racism be the exclusive province of a single ethnic group. And intrapersonal racism, at least, is not and never has been, unique to any one group. The same general thing goes for "reverse sexism" as well.
So that was a pretty substantial leap in logic there, V.R.

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. Then why do you GAF about the term White Male Privilege....

It IS the truth...

but for some reason it seems to mostly bother White Males....

hmmmm no leaps of logic required...

[AverageJoe90]

57. See post 18. Read it. Then come back to me. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. Don't need to read your drivel about this subject...

you are a male...therefore not very likely at all to make less than a female for the same job....However WE are White and also not likely to make less than people of color do for the same job....THUS White Privilege exists...

The truth is the truth...whether it bothers your sensitive feelings about it or not...

Just because we now have a Black President doesn't mean racism no longer exists does it? Because ONE Black person has succeeded in life....doesn't negate it for the remainder does it? Therefore.....I can say the same thing about White Male Privilege.....because some White men have not succeeded even though they are a member of a privileged class....doesn't mean that the privilege class doesn't exist...

It is very simple...

[NCTraveler]

122. You benefit from white privilege.

Every time you have said that, you have added additional caveats. You have also repeatedly stated things about other posters that they have never said. Very interesting.

[VanillaRhapsody]

146. Yes I have......

I am freely admitting such....but as a woman as well....I also know that being a White male in this world is a huge advantage......

[NCTraveler]

159. Very interesting that you cannot say it without adding the caveat.

You have made that very clear. Our genders are the same, yet I have never felt the need to enter the caveat into every single response. You on the other hand can't simply admit to your white privilege without adding a "but". I have seen this before.

[VanillaRhapsody]

162. I can say it quite easily....White privilege exists

Now can YOU say that being a White male is YOUR privilege?

(oh and add being an American male and you have hit the trifecta of privilege)

[Bobbie Jo]

133. For the love of God

See post 112. Read it, then take some time to reflect.

Seriously.

[VanillaRhapsody]

114. No we don't....you are just in denial...

You refuse to admit the obvious....White men disproportionately find the term painful....

[RobinA]

129. Maybe Because

the whole concept is disproportionally condescending to white males? The people most disturbed by the argument are the people most tarred by it. Surprise.

[VanillaRhapsody]

141. The truth is not condescending....

its in the ear of the beholder....some are just interestingly overly sensitive about this term....

"tarred by it" .....see that's what I mean....you are taking it personal! That's a sign of guilty conscience...

[TM99]

110. "Ever notice that it is mainly White men who do this denying?"

Actually....no.....

http://blackorchidcollective.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/guest-post-privilege-politics/

[VanillaRhapsody]

115. Actually YES

because a small faction of said group agrees with you.....doesn't change the facts. It works just like that in this situation. Just because SOME White men are not as successful in life as others....doesn't mean that the privilege doesn't exist. Just like because we have a Black President doesn't mean that racism no longer exists..

Exceptions do not change the rule...

[TM99]

124. Believe what you want to, but

please stop pretending that every one (POC or white) agrees with you or finds the theory of privilege to be useful in creating change.

I do enjoy your straw men though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

142. I am not pretending and believe me ....I am noting whom are disagreeing....

seems White men have the issue with the term....they cannot accept that not being judged by your skin or your gender in this world is a HUGE advantage....should we call it "White Advantage" would that help? Of course not.....

[TM99]

154. You make a lot of assumptions in this thread.

Are you sure all that disagree with you are male and are white?

[VanillaRhapsody]

155. Have my assumptions been wrong so far?

Its White males that are disagreeing that White male privilege exists....

Even IF a few are not....it doesn't change that fact. That is exactly the point I am trying to make to White males.....that a few exceptions DO NOT change a rule...

[TM99]

156. With me personally, absolutely!

You also assume that 'privilege' = 'truth' or 'rule'.

It is a relatively new theory whose main proponents hang on to it with ideological zeal ignoring the political realities of such concepts and their impact on true systemic change in this country.

[VanillaRhapsody]

157. Did you read what I said....exceptions do not change the rule....

So whether YOU are White and male makes no never mind in this case....by FAR those that argue against White male privilege.....are White males...

Are you going to deny that is true?

[TM99]

158. Your arogance and condescension

are really not necessary with me.

I get it. As a white woman, for some reason, you feel very strongly about this 'idea'.

Sorry, but that does not make it real, the rule, or the truth.

I deny the existence of this post New Left concept. It is divisive. It is not universal and is only discussed in academia in the US, Canada, & England. It moves the focus away from true system wide change via rights and laws to some bullshit idea of 'culture'. We can't change culture. We can change systems. We can change laws. We can work to insure that rights are maintained for all.

People don't change because some know-it-all throws around some fancy sociological concepts and brows beats them into being 'educated'. They don't suddenly stop being racist, homophobic, etc. because you tell them they have 'privilege'. That's what the 'white men' here (and others!) are trying to say. People change because of shared experiences and empathy. Those with real privilege in this society have money and power. They use it to keep the rest of us divided and at each others throats.

You aren't going to change my mind on the topic nor anyone else's here who disagrees with 'privilege theory'. We do not need the concept to agree in general that despite the huge changes in the Democratic Party, it is still the better political choice for creating the type of real change that needs to occur.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. I speak the truth....you just call it arrogance and condesencion

Do you tell Black people that when they use the term White Privilege....they are just being "arrogant and condescending too?

[TM99]

163. You speak 'a' truth.

Again with the assumptions about my racial make-up.

And yes, I don't care what your gender, race, orientation or belief is, if you are being arrogant and condescending, then yes, I am likely to call you on it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

167. I do not care WHAT your racial make up is.....

Here is some more "arrogance and condescension" for ya...

In 2010 compared to White men's salaries..

Black men 74.5% (of White men's salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men's salaries)

White women 80.5% (of White men's salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White men's salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8(of White men's salaries)



So you were saying?

[TM99]

168. What an arrogant and obnoxious person you are.

You make all of these assumptions about race and privilege. You talk down to me as if I am just some 'white male' who needs an education on your pet theory because I disagree with it for numerous reasons.

I would love to just go off on you as your style of arrogant bullshit pushes my buttons bad. All the more so as a damned white woman is trying to tell me about race and the effects of racism when you do not know what my ethnicity or racial background is.

I am done conversing with you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

169. I am not making assumptions.....I am just pointing out the truth...

Here is some more "arrogant bullshit" for ya...

Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:

as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)

Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)

White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)


So I call bullshit on your denial of the truth that White males ARE privileged. As others besides this "arrogant" White woman is not the ONLY person on this thread telling you so...so yes run along while you can keep denying the utter truth...

[Lex]

66. White people are uncomfortable with the term

"white privilege" but that's okay. It is growth sometimes to make people feel uncomfortable and question these things.

Not much progress is made when people are feeling fat and happy with themselves.

If it makes one feel defensive to hear the term, question why.

[VanillaRhapsody]

118. Exactly Lex....THIS is what Randi Rhodes is saying we MUST do...

Shame them!

We have to stop molly coddling...

[kwassa]

74. White privilege exists whether you believe in it or not.

Your misunderstanding is great.

White privilege has not been used as a term of attack on anyone. The fact that you think it has shows how little you understand that concept.

Your claim to know what the general public thinks of white privilege is pretty amusing, too. Thanks for the chuckle.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. Exactly....I find it quite interesting just WHO feels "attacked" by this simple truth....

the fact that they feel that as a result says much more about them than they know...

[Skidmore]

19. Well said.

And you absolutely nail it. People tend to slice and dice do much that the shape of the thing is lost. There are a myriad of ways for manifestations of a sizable amorphous attitude. We each must continue to demand and represent change inour communities.

[sufrommich]

20. There's a massive advantage to being born white

in this country,actually there's a massive advantage to being born white on this planet,regardless of evidence that some white people suffer in poverty,you're better off being born white in a first world country.Why this obvious fact bothers some liberals is mind boggling.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. Agreed...

as a White female....I understand the privilege of being born male....therefore I can extrapolate that to understand the privilege of being born White...

That a few White males are denying their privilege on a Liberal forum is mind boggling....an apt description.

[Fred Drum]

58. wait a minute

you understand white privilege because you're a female

did i read that correctly?

[VanillaRhapsody]

64. I understand White privilege because I am a White female.....being female

I know that men are not likely to make 25% less money than I am for the same job....they are in a privileged class....therefore I CAN extrapolate that to also be true of being born White....like I am!

[VanillaRhapsody]

119. Notice it is mostly White Males that are having an issue with the term....

[heaven05]

25. aaargh, wading into it also

Last edited Sun May 11, 2014, 12:35 PM - Edit history (1)

prejudice:the word prejudice refers to prejudgement: making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case or event. The word has commonly been used in certain restricted contexts, in the expression 'racial prejudice'. Initially this is referred to making a judgement about a person based on their race, religion, class ect., before receiving information relevant to the particular issue on which a judgment was being made; it came however, to be widely used to refer to any hostile attitude toward people based on their race or even by just judging someone without knowing them. Subsequently the word has come to be widely so interpreted in this way in contexts other than those relating to race. The meaning now is frequently, "any unreasonable attitude that is usually resistant to rational influence". (1)Race, sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, and religion have a history of inciting prejudicial behavior.

Bigotry: A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when those views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.

Racism: Racism, by its definition, is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups. In the case of institutional racism,certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment. Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, even though anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, their is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.
They all mean similar, yet different things as you can see.

I hope this helps the discussion. In america white privilege is a fact based on one or all of the above definitions. You can choose what you want to believe but you can't deny facts inherent and true in american culture about white privilege...

[Faryn Balyncd]

26. To not be discriminated against is the RIGHT of everyone...

Calling it a "privilege" (to not be discriminated against) creates a frame that carries a potential implication that the right to not be discriminated against is optional, and that an appropriate course of action might be to eliminate privilege by subjecting everyone to mistreatment, instead of the only moral course of action: expanding the rights of those who, in daily life, are denied their rights.

Calling discrimination what it is ("institutionalized racism&quot frames the evil reality exactly as it is, and frames the problem in such a way that their is only one solution: the elimination of the evil of institutionalized racism. . . . . And such a frame does not suggest the option of an authoritarian "solution" of restricting "privilege", rather than the democratic expansion of rights to all (not only in theory, but in daily reality).

[AverageJoe90]

28. Yeah, this pretty much.

And I understand that the implications are not intentional with the former.....but it does unfortunately come across that way quite often.

The latter, on the other hand, frames the issue perfectly.

[Faryn Balyncd]

29. I agree... The implications are not intentional.

[RobinA]

131. The Implications

are totally intentional.

[Eleanors38]

33. Nice distinctions, good approach.

[Gormy Cuss]

37. How does one convince those not subject to the mistreatment that there is such an inequality

based on an immutable trait? When there were side by side water fountains, when there were "Whites Only" signs posted in public places, it was hard to miss the inherent privilege of having white skin even if one were dirt poor and disadvantaged in many other ways.
We've corrected much of that overt discrimination through civil rights laws and thus diminished the advantage. That left us with subtler discrimination that is easy to overlook if one is a member of the privileged group.
If one doesn't see it and therefore doesn't acknowledge it, there is no reason to correct it. It just doesn't exist in that person's view.

[Nye Bevan]

30. "Not a useful turn of phrase". You hit the nail on the head.

K&R.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. No it IS a useful turn of phrase....

do you deny that men have privilege in this world?

Then how on God's green earth can you deny being White is a privilege?

using a different "turn of phrase" is only done to protect the sensitivities of White males....that is all...actually changing the term....gives them yet another privilege...they don't have to face theirs...

[cali]

42. that's not why I don't think it's a useful turn of phrase. I explained that clearly in the OP.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. To protect their precious sensitivities?

come on....that is ALL it is....

They don't want to have to hear being White or being a Male is a privilege that OTHERS do not enjoy! PERIOD....

you and I both know they don't want the words White or male associated with racism and bigotry...because they believe THEY have been discriminated against because of their White skin and male organs! In other words to protect their beliefs that reverse racism and reverse sexism exists...

THAT is all...

[Californeeway]

60. either you want to educate people or you want to put them in their place.

Being an academic, I have no problem understanding the concept of "white privilege" and I see it as a reality as obvious as the sun is bright, but I worry that some people are using it as a cheap bludgeon to troll fellow posters and to shut down a more comprehensive discussion about the various forms of disadvantage that people are suffering because of race, sex, sexual orientation, class, education, physical disability, mental disability, geographic location, political affiliation, personal eccentricities -the issue is a very complicated and intellectually challenging one that many people are just really starting to come to grips with, to assume that the term "white privilege" is the only proper means of conveying the idea just shows a lack of imagination and a rigidness that would be more at home among the racist conservatives that we are trying to fight. There's something really elitist and misguided about insisting on confusing academic language when you are supposedly trying to educate a group of people who for the most part are poor, under-educated and who will quickly stop listening when they hear these confusing terms and misconstrued them as clueless insults. And I can't help but sense the presence of racial and sexual animus in the way that you are so blithely dismissive of White men's feelings, or that the idea of taking those feelings into consideration at all should be out of bounds - it sound pretty prejudiced to be honest. All of our feelings count. You have to take into account the feelings of the people you are trying to educate -it's basic human psychology, if you are trying to get someone to open up to your ideas, you don't use language that makes them feel like they are being accused of something heinous. It should be obvious that anyone in that situation becomes defensive and stops listening. If you are doing things that make people stop listening, and resisting using more inclusive, more easy to understand language, then you are just getting trapped by your sense of elitism and doing more harm than good. Pretending like some people's feelings count and others don't just doesn't jibe with sincere inclusiveness or my own personal definition of being a Liberal. Honestly, if people were really trying to be clear about the idea, they would say "Black Disadvantage" or "Minority Disadvantage" -it communicates the same idea without subtly implying that all White people are consciously doing something wrong and don't care. I fear that some people enjoy using the phrase precisely because it is so easily misconstrued and gives them an excuse to engage in condescension and elitism towards the people who are confused by it. And on an intellectual level, I just think the phrase fails at it's main objective, which is to educate people and we should be open to using other language that makes the idea more clear to those who need to be educated about it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Educate them that they ARE in the privileged class yes...

You are NEVER going to fix it UNLESS they first accept it....especially Liberals...For God Sakes....

The first step to recovery is ALWAYS acceptance...

[AverageJoe90]

103. A very good post. A *VERY* good post.

Unfortunately, there really are a few people are who truly ARE using it as nothing more, than a bludgeon and a tool to shout down and even attempt to silence viewpoints they don't like, even if they disagree only in the slightest of terms.....and they get angry & quite defensive when they're called out on it.

And then you have a rather good number more who may indeed be well-intentioned, but they get so caught up in their passions that they end up overreacting to something that might otherwise largely line up with their own POV. And even with these people, it's often hard to talk to them, at least in the heat of the moment, anyway.

[BainsBane]

105. I definitely have animus

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 06:07 AM - Edit history (1)

You know why? Because I haven't once been able to post a thread in GD about feminism, rape, or related issues without being told I'm a troll or engaging in flamebait.

This whole thing about privilege began months ago with a single thread where someone mentioned white privilege. That spawned dozens and dozens of threads saying how awful it was to use that term. This is part of an ongoing pattern of delegitimating the views, experiences, and concerns of people of color and feminists. African American posters are told that they should be honored by meals of fried chicken and watermelon, that their natural hair is ugly, or that they are "out of their element" and should go back to their own group when they try to join discussions about race. All of that happens on DU, and people get pissed off. So you want me to worry about the feelings of people who work to silence the voices of anyone who isn't exactly like them? I'm not going to do it.

Additionally, those people don't see themselves as poorly educated (and I don't necessarily think they are, unless your metric is the absence of advanced degrees. ) They see themselves as the only legitimate "leftists" and the rest of us as right-wingers and trolls. Today one called bell hooks an ally of Bill O'Reilly. Another has made it his mission to get John Conyers out of congress. There have been witchhunt threads about members of color, while that is standard practice toward feminists, who certain members target in an effort to get us removed from the site. The fact is there are people who want this to be a forum to conform entirely to their dictates: they think it's okay for women and people of color to participate only if they think, write, and behave exactly like those self-entitled white members.
If anyone utters a word or post about a subject that those members don't think important (like marijuana and Snowden), they attack them as trolls or sock puppets.

If all of our feelings count, that means ALL of us, not just the white male posters of a certain outlook. I'm tired of being called a right-winger because I care about issues of objectification and believe rape porn is destructive. I'm tired of being accused of trolling for posting about rape and violence against women. It appears to me that you have walked into the end of this show and think you know the beginning. I don't believe you do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

135. +1

It's apparent that privilege works throughout the various factors that make up our identity. Reasonable people can debate at length which factors confer advantage and which confer disadvantage. The value of that debate is probably limited, because of the fundamental issue of privilege: we're all ignorant of what it's like to walk in anyone else's shoes.

But "check your privilege" is almost entirely used as a flag to plant in the moral high ground. The person who can acquire the most points on the disadvantage scorecard wins.

It's misconstrued by everyone, but the greatest damage is inflicted by those who use it most vigorously.

[AverageJoe90]

43. Unfortunately, some people here haven't quite figured it out yet.

Took me a while to figure it out myself, TBH; I guess it may have helped, though, that I wasn't terribly vocal about it, mostly, at least not in the actual usage of the word. But I really did believe in it, though, at least to an extent.

[Eleanors38]

32. Cali, I appreciate the OP, and thanx DUers for a good discussion.

[Throd]

34. I recognize my white privilege and few other privileges too.

[3catwoman3]

50. By complete genetic luck of the draw...

...or whatever else you might like to call it, my soul happened to take root in an fertilized egg created by my white, college educated parents, who were 26 and 27 when they married, and 29 and 30 when I was born. They weren't wealthy, but we never worried about putting food on the table, or having a place of our own to live in, and they were able to send me to college without me needing to take out any student loans.

I went on to become a pediatric nurse practitioner with a master's degree. it's a career I've enjoyed for nearly 40 years.

Had my soul ended up inhabiting the fertilized egg of a single teen mother from Chicago's Cabrini Green or NYC's Harlem neighborhoods, could I still have ended up as a nurse practitioner with a master's degree? Yes. Would it have been a hell of a lot harder? Damn right.

Call it white privilege or whatever else, my skin color has certainly made my life easier. I'd be a fool not to recognize this.

On a related note, my husband and I have never had to worry that someone might decide to shoot either of our sons just because of what they look like.

[m-lekktor]

61. i acknowledge mine as well, and my male privilege also.

I may be gay but i still hold privilege from my white and male status! I get it completely.

[Fumesucker]

69. Take away the privilege of everyone in the 99% and you have solved the problem

Then none of the working class will be privileged and we will all be equal.

[McCamy Taylor]

75. So called "white privilege" is a curse a lot like "male privilege."

What happens when a man meets a woman who makes more money than he does? He feels emasculated. What happens when a white guy runs across a Black guy who makes more money? He feels e-white-ated.

If you are taught to judge your self worth based upon how much better you are than someone else, you will feel like shit when you meet someone else who is better off than you are. And when people hate themselves, they hate other people. And that leads to violence.

Like yourself for who you are, not for what you aren't.

[AverageJoe90]

108. Some good points here, TBH.

And this, especially, I found enlightening:

Like yourself for who you are, not for what you aren't.

Kudos for that.

[3catwoman3]

125. Agreed.

I will remember this wording and use it.

[yurbud]

82. If you can afford to shop at Barney's, you got another kind of privilege going

[Vattel]

85. I think the expression is pretty useless and even tends to trivilaize racism and racial injustice.

White privilege exists, but so do countless other privileges. For example, I enjoy male privilege, high-IQ-privilege, tall privilege, not-being-bald privilege, no-chronic-illnesses privilege, just-drank-a-good-IPA privilege, rakish-good-looks privilege (okay, I am lying about some of these). But most of my privileges have little to do with any injustice to others. My white privilege, though, is partly the privilege of not suffering certain serious racial injustices. And those injustices are what is important to talk about and address, not the mere fact of privilege. So I prefer talking about racism and injustice.

[dionysus]

134. you just had to bring up not-being-bald privilege, didn't you?

[alittlelark]

90. Obama did a fundraiser a few blocks from me a few days agoi

Cops EVERYWHERE.... ppl pulled over, sequestered.... I as a white woman in a Prius had NO issues.

I know I have privilege. I will work it at times....

I have it. I wish I was able to say it doesn't exist.... but IT DOES.

[alittlelark]

95. There is so much WRONG w/your VERY 1st DU post......

WAY too many Faux news buzz words and insinuations.....

[William769]

97. I'll respond to you.

Good bye.

[uppityperson]

127. A picture for you.

[William769]

128. Indeed.

[uppityperson]

130. It took a while to find just the right one, if you look closely.

[William769]

132. I did look closely.

[TexasTowelie]

99. see post #98. nt

[TexasTowelie]

98. My only regret is that I didn't get my jury vote in on time to respond to the troll that got their

posts hidden.

[pacalo]

100. Me, too!

[TexasTowelie]

102. Misery loves company.

I was doing a search to get the names of the two white women that shot Gerald Ford which is why it took a couple of minutes to get the verdict completed. That was one of the most ridiculous responses that I read though--especially when it implied that non-white men were more likely to assassinate a president than a white woman when recent history suggests otherwise.

Kudos to MIRT though.

[hfojvt]

126. "another way of saying"

except it is not, it is a way of saying something slightly different.

And why not drop THIS way of saying it, in favor of ways that are more conducive to cooperation? Ways that might create progress rather than controversy?

And YOU may not be "stopped driving or followed suspiciously in stores" but THIS white guy has been - multiple times.

So when people assert these things, people ARE saying "that all white people have some wonderful background or life". Like a homeless white guy is suppose to check his privileges. Sit there on a park bench, hungry, and think "gosh darn, if I owned a car I could drive around without getting stopped for no reason, I sure am lucky I was born white and male."

And heck, I even knew a white guy out of prison who felt like he got "a harsher sentence for a crime". Sure, the longer sentence did NOT come because of the color of his skin, but that's not much consolation while doing seven years for a crime that would normally net two.

[Gothmog]

136. Karen Finney on Disrupt on Sunday had a good segment on Does ‘privilege-checking’ shut down debate?

I really enjoy Disrupt with Karen Finney and found this discussion to be interesting http://www.msnbc.com/disrupt/watch/does-privilege-checking-shut-down-debate-253246531519

[Katashi_itto]

138. Privilege

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Bpd4wQa5--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/vm4zfjucorzmpdmis3yv.png

[LanternWaste]

139. At this point, I think the only ones offended by the phrase are those who wish to be offended by the

At this point, I think the only ones offended by the phrase are those who wish to be offended by the phrase-- as each reason given for its non-use in this thread is little more than persuasive rather than sound or valid arguments, containing appeals to probability and propositional fallacies.

The term is an accurate descriptor of a real thing (lest we begin demanding of science that it too changes its own terminologies to better assuage the hurt feelings of fundies...)

[arely staircase]

153. where have you been?

I just realized you haven't pissed me off in a long time. hope you are well.

[alarimer]

161. I think a simple analogy is in order

Suppose two people are asked to dig holes. One, a white person, has both hands free to dig the hole, while the other (African American) has to dig the hole with one hand tied behind his or her back. Makes it a whole lot more difficult to accomplish the same task. Or, suppose life is a ladder. The white person is born on, say, the third rung, while others start at the bottom.

That's how I think of privilege. Some people, by simply being born into a certain race or class (and, as the OP states, there are varying levels and combinations of privilege that operate at the same time), have an advantage over others. It is simply not a level playing field. Acknowledging that fact does not mean being ashamed of who you are. Or having to apologize for it. It is simply a recognition that you did not get "there" all by yourself.

[warrprayer]

170. K&R and welcome back

from your break! (voluntary, I should point out.)

[emsimon33]

171. We've missed you!