Is White Male Straight Privilege Real?

[el_bryanto]

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Just curious to see where we are on this.

Bryant

26 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Definitely
	21 (81%)
	Somewhat
	1 (4%)
	Possibly
	0 (0%)
	Probably not
	1 (4%)
	Definitely not
	0 (0%)
	3 (12%)
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[JaneyVee]

1. Attend a white privilege conference.

Its definitely real.

[NuclearDem]

2. Of course it is.

[s-cubed]

3. Here's some real data to prove it is real.

The study involved sending identical letters to professors all over the country. The letter pro ported to be from a prospective student asking for advice in the professor's area of study. The only difference was in the names used: ones consistently identified as belonging to a particular gender and race. Ryan Chin, for example, would be thought to be a Chinese male. The study was very conclusive in the response rate to students perceived to be white male vs all other groups.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/opinion/sunday/professors-are-prejudiced-too.html?action=click&contentCollection=The%20Upshot&module=MostEmailed&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article

[Iggo]

4. Of course it is.

[JJChambers]

5. Affluent privilege is real.

[malokvale77]

9. It is the "icing on the cake" privilege...

and when you add in white, male and hetero, you have the essential oligarch.

Being affluent and black does not offer the same privilege. Being affluent and female does not offer the same privilege. ETC. ETC.

Being affluent and anything but, white, male and hetero does not buy equal privilege.

Being a poor black or poor female or poor gay are far worse than being a poor white male hetero.

I am white, so that gives me a certain privilege over non-whites. I am female so I lose some privilege there. I am poor so I lose a little more privilege, etc.

Of all the thinks I am, the only thing I have the power to change is my economic situation.

That is my experience from my long years of life on this earth.

[JJChambers]

13. Who has more privilege?

A child born to an affluent black family or a child born to a coalminer-poor Kentucky white family? Is there a chart somewhere we can see how many privilege points we have, so we know how much we need to apologize? Surely a rich, white heterosexual male should apologize the most. But whose next on the list? A rich white heterosexual female? Or mayhaps a rich white homosexual male? At which point on the privilege chart does wealth overtake race?

[malokvale77]

22. My point was...

my wealth status is the only thing I have the "power to change". Everything else I was born with.

Yes, wealthy blacks have more privilege than poor blacks, and so on. But the wealthy white will always have more and the wealthy white male hetero will even more so.

Affluence being equal, white, male, hetero - trumps - non-white, female, gay.

I don't think any one should apologize for their privileges. But we should surely recognize the ones we have, just as we recognize those we lack.

[dsc]

59. It is getting harder and harder to argue that one can change their wealth

we are now the country with the least upward mobility in the developed world with the single biggest indicator of dying poor being being born poor. That doesn't discount the rest of what you said but wealth is becoming more of a permanent privilege.

[Demeter]

54. WWZK?

Which would Zimmerman Kill?

[Squinch]

58. ^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. My answer is "no, yes, no".

White people have life easier than black people.
If everyone were treated the same, white people would notice no difference and black people would find life easier.
So being treated the way white people are is not a privilege.

Men have life easier than women.
If everyone were treated the same, men would find life harder, and women would find it easier.
So being treated the way men are is a privilege.

Straight people have life easier than gay people.
If everyone were treated the same, straight people would notice no difference and gay people would find life easier.
So being treated the way straight people are is not a privilege.

All three refer to real phenomena, but two are misleading terms, and one is an informative one.

[Maedhros]

7. When one group receives preferential treatment relative to another group,

that's not "privilege?"

I guess I don't see the value in this semantic argument.

[malokvale77]

10. That is the exact definition of privilege

[Maedhros]

61. I think that the problem for some folks is that they have a definition of "privilege" in their heads

and it doesn't fit with how "White/Male/Straight Privilege" is being discussed.

So, rather than adjust their definition of the word for the purposes of the discussion, they dig in and fight a semantic battle over what the word means. This is similar to how creationists refuse to understand that the word "theory" is used by scientists differently that by society at large.

What does "currrent" mean to an electrician? How about a fishing boat captain? Or a journalist? Understanding how the word is being used in context is important.

[noiretextatique]

29. it's also called entitlement

entitlement = privilege + denial

[951-Riverside]

8. Yes, clearly

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[boston bean]

11. I love polls that mock the issues with options that have no bearing

on how anyone really feels about the issue.

[el_bryanto]

14. I didn't intend disrespect. It's just the way I do polls. nt

[boston bean]

15. IMHO, it is disrespectful of a very important topic and seemed to

minimize and will be used to once again to diminish black persons life experiences.

[el_bryanto]

17. I deleted the two options

I'm sorry to have offended you. I'll refrain from posting polls on this subject in the future.

I do believe that white privilege exists.

Bryant

[redqueen]

18. No, it isn't about her feelings. If you want to apologize then apologize for blatantly minimizing

the issue. But then you hadover a dozen people who appreciated your help in portraying the issue as just a big joke, so... well done.

[el_bryanto]

19. OK - you are ascribing malice where there was none

I put those two options in every poll I do. And almost every poll I do is on a serious issue. I didn't think of how it would look in this case.

If anything my theory posting the poll was that the majority of DU does recognize the existence of White Male privilege - that those arguing the other way are in the minority.

Bryant

[whistler162]

12. You neglected to add right handed!

I hope this thread does the job and makes you feel better about yourself!

[FarCenter]

16. Able-bodied, non-veteran, straight white males from 17 to 45 are legally unprotected

From the time that they age out of child labor laws until they age into the age discrimination laws they have no legal protections or privileges covering them as a class, provided they are not covered by ADA or veteran's legislation.

[Nye Bevan]

20. "Do racial discrimination, sexism, and anti-gay discrimination exist in the US today?"

Answer: YES

but without the flamebaitiness of framing in terms of "privilege".

[el_bryanto]

21. Why is the term privilege flamebait?

It's a pretty common term; certainly one I've found useful in understanding the world.

Bryant

[Nye Bevan]

24. I understand that your question in the OP essentially means the same thing

as my question.

But the problem with the "privilege" framing is that when you have a white person who is unemployed or about to lose their job, struggling to pay medical bills or feed their family, and behind on the rent, this person may, just may, react negatively when lectured at about how "privileged" they are.

[el_bryanto]

25. Well yes but a black person who is unemployed, or about to lose their job

struggling to pay medical bills or feed their family and behind on the rent is worse off than a white person in that situation, aren't they?

Bryant

[Nye Bevan]

27. In general yes, but everything I said about the "privilege" framing still applies (nt)

[el_bryanto]

30. I don't really agree.

I think it's a mechanism for understanding the world, and it explains a lot. The fact that it makes some uncomfortable isn't a good enough reason to discard it.

Bryant

[Nye Bevan]

32. There's a reason you don't often hear politicians talking about "white privilege".

If this framing was really so helpful, wouldn't you expect people like Barack Obama and Joe Biden to use it more?

[el_bryanto]

36. Useful for understanding the world - not everything has to be boiled down to it's utility

in political speech. And there are pretty sound reasons why Obama can't politically talk about the truth of race in America; I don't think we need to hold ourselves to that same standard.

And I can say that while Privilege was a hard concept to swallow originally it has proven useful to me in understanding how the world works.

Bryant

[Nye Bevan]

39. If a white friend in a bar was telling you how they were broke and being evicted,

and couldn't afford medical treatment, would you bring up how "privileged" they were later in the conversation?

[el_bryanto]

45. Probably not - does that mean I can't use the term ever? nt

[Nye Bevan]

47. Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

Many, many DUers are having a tough time right now in this economy. So if you wouldn't throw "you're privileged" at someone in a bar who is broke, why throw it at DUers who are broke?

[el_bryanto]

53. because DUers are assumed to be a step ahead in understanding the world

They aren't children and can take some hard truths without breaking down. If they can't accept that there are some benefits to being white than i don't know what to say.

Bryant

[Nye Bevan]

60. I think DUers are more representative of your friend in the bar than you think (nt)

[nomorenomore08]

46. No, but in other contexts I might. Nothing inherently wrong with picking your battles. n/t

[NuclearDem]

33. Of course they will if you butcher the meaning of privilege like that.

Privilege doesn't mean all white people, men, or straight people have it great.

It means that in the same situation, a black person, a woman, or an LGBT individual would face additional problems they wouldn't otherwise face.

[Nye Bevan]

35. If you had a broke white friend being evicted would you talk to them about their "privilege"? (nt)

[NuclearDem]

38. I'm a straight white man who's been out of work for a year and has PTSD.

And I have no problem grasping the concept of privilege.

[Nye Bevan]

41. That doesn't really answer my question (nt)

[NuclearDem]

48. Yes it does.

It means not all white people in desperate circumstances are put off by the concept of privilege.

[nomorenomore08]

44. So PoC who've had family members murdered by police etc. should tread carefully

to avoid making the white folks uncomfortable? Sorry, but fuck that noise!

[Nye Bevan]

49. I would suggest they frame it as something like

"end racial bias by the police" or "police shooting minorities must stop" as opposed to "white people are oh-so-privileged".

But I suspect that they would do this even without my suggestion. The "white privilege" agonizing is much more prevalent in elite universities and internet discussion boards than in the real world.

[nomorenomore08]

52. I would never suggest such a thing. They can frame it any damn way they please.

After all, it's their pain and suffering, not mine.

[BainsBane]

23. You have begun at least two threads on the subject

Were those flamebait?

[Nye Bevan]

26. I believe I have only ever started threads that discourage the "privilege" framing.

Sort of like a fireman in the face of countless arson attacks.

[BainsBane]

28. Exactly

You think it's not flamebait to tell members of color what words they can't use, whereas if they, or others, post about the issue that concerns them, it's flambait. Ergo flamebait is defined as a view that is not white (and male, since I experience the same charges every time I post about feminist issues.). You know you could trash threads. You don't have to set yourself up as policeman of how people of color are allowed to speak about racism. African Americans are the single most reliable voting group in the Democratic Party, but we have very few members on this site. This discussion about white privilege shows why that is so.

[Nye Bevan]

31. Hmmm. I don't recall starting *any* threads telling members of color what words not to use.

Making the suggestion that the "privilege" framework may not be the most constructive approach in working towards ending discrimination is not exactly the same as posting: "ATTENTION BLACK DUERS! DO NOT USE THE WORD PRIVILEGE!"

But of course you know that.

[bravenak]

34. But you do kinda whine a bit when it's used.

So. There's that.

[Nye Bevan]

37. If suggesting that one framing is less constructive than another is "whining",

then indeed, I plead guilty to being a "whiner".

[bravenak]

40. It's the fact that we heard you and decided to deny your request.

But you wont accept no for an answer. No, we will not use a different phrase. Thank you for understanding, and i expect that this will be the end of the matter.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Perhaps I am wrong, and that lecturing whites about their "privilege" will, indeed, help

to end racism.

In this case I will be very happy to have been proved wrong.

[bravenak]

50. It will help once they recognize it and change it.

Until then the will just have to suffer the indignity of actually having to hear blah people talk about their struggles with racism in America while using 'words' that offend them.
Hearing about the trial and tribulations of black oppression by the majority is sooooo much harder that actually experiencing them, don't you think?
I'm sure you rather be experiencing racism than hearing about it, si?

[Nye Bevan]

51. OK, well good luck. We all want the same result in the end (nt)

[BainsBane]

65. You made clear you objected to the use of the word

and decided to make the discussion about your feelings rather than their experience of racism. I'd like to point you to this website. Perhaps you could consider some of its points. http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/17004629556/white-privilege-now-what-other-such-fallacies

I really don't understand how you can really believe that posting something affirming the significance of white privilege is flamebait while objecting to it is not. I happen to think neither are flamebait, unless written in an especially provocative manner. I don't expect posts to conform to my views to have legitimacy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. Why conflate these?

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Why do I know that white privilege exists?
Because minorities get poorer education.
Because minorities live shorter lives
Because minorities get worse medical care
Because minorities suffer more frequent and longer periods of unemployment
Because minorities are more frequently injured and killed on the job
Because minorities suffer more alcoholism and drug addiction
Because minorities suffer more frequent violent victimization
Because minorities get worse treatment by the justice system and are given worse sentences for the same crime

How do I know that male privilege doesn't exist? See the above list and replace "minorities" with "men".

The reason that they're conflated is because one of them is bullshit and must be parasitically attached to a legitimate injustice to survive.

[kwassa]

55. what the hell are you talking about?

Is it all about you?

nobody has given you the proper respect you deserve for you privilege?

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. gibberish.

The perseveration about white privilege irritates me only because it has become a diversion that precludes us from actually doing anything about the underlying injustice. No amount of "checking" is adequate to finally get around to resolving the chronic, debilitating and actual problems.

[kwassa]

63. Irritation doesn't preclude white privilege.

Your reaction is to refuse to discuss it.

which is fine, but why do you do this? Does refusing to discuss this change this in some way?

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. I acknowledge my white privilege. Like I did in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010...

Enough yet? Can we move on to whatever this was supposed to be a prerequisite to?

[NuclearDem]

57. No.

Male privilege exists because women get paid less than men for the same work, are at higher risk for sexual assault and rape, have to deal with harassment on the streets, and have their reproductive rights limited and bodies controlled.

[KamaAina]

56. Throw "Non-Disabled" on there

for good measure.

[WillyT]

66. If You Could Push A Magic Button.... That Would Turn You Black And/Or Female...

Because of the inherent "advantage" of being black, or female, or both...

Would you push that button ???

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. Few adults would.

We're conditioned to our identity and comfortable with it.

A better question would be to ask parents, would you push a button to select a daughter or a son?

We don't have to ask.