pardon bowe bergdahl.

[mopinko]

he has been punished enough.
i want a simple pentagon review, a meet with the pres, and an f'ing full fucking stop to the whole charade.
personally, i would pin a damn medal on him to boot. but

free bowe bergdahl from the right wing.

eta-
i want the full richard nixon pardon right now.
i want this young man to recover with nothing hanging over his head.
i want his family to recover with nothing hanging over their heads.

i want this nonsense to stop.

this implies nothing that has not already been implied and will continue to be implied, till the end of time. a full court marshall on cspan would not change that. a public hanging would only feed that.

pull the fucking plug, sir. please.

[blkmusclmachine]

1. ,

,

[Jenoch]

2. I believe he should be given his due process.

[struggle4progress]

3. As he's not currently facing any charges, it's premature

to discuss this

[TexasTowelie]

5. Agreed,

he has to be convicted of a crime before he can be pardoned.

[Historic NY]

13. not if your a Republican....

most were pardoned during the trial.

[Savannahmann]

20. No he doesn't.

The Constitution grants the President the power to Pardon with only one condition, not in cases of impeachment. Otherwise, the person can be pardoned by the President without being charged with any crime.

I don't know what the State where you live has as the limit for Gubernatorial pardons, but the President can pardon anyone, at any time except impeachment.

[Starboard Tack]

67. First he has to be charged with a crime before being tried.

[JI7]

4. there is nothing to pardon him for

[HooptieWagon]

6. I agree.

I don't know if he was AWOL or not. It doesn't appear he gave any kind of aid to the enemy. Even if he was AWOL, 5 years as a POW of the Taliban is more than enough punishment. I don't think any further would accomplish anything.

[mopinko]

7. no, i wanna give him the nixon pardon.

obviously unless the pentagon has a SSEEERRRIOUS objection.
for the good of the country.
welcome him home.
shut your fucking yap.
no public dissection.

[mwrguy]

8. full pardon for anything that comes up

[valerief]

9. For what??????? nt

[TwilightGardener]

10. The NY Times article about his health and condition tonight mentioned

that he objected to being called Sergeant, because he hadn't been before the boards (evaluation board for promotion) yet. I doubt he really wanted to desert, if he is concerned about his proper rank even after all these years. He will probably be found to have gone off base without permission, but intended to come back and was captured.

[progressivebydesign]

76. from what I read of his background, sounds like he simply couldn't handle the war.

He was considered a thoughtful guy, who took ballet lessons, and tried a lot of different things to get perspective on life. He came from a small town, and no doubt joined the military after working at a gun range and becoming interested in that lifestyle.

He was different, and may have felt ostracized or didn't fit into the life at war. I think he was naive... and not all new soldiers can ever fully buy into the disconnection from your former life that you have to do in order to fit into a war zone.

He wandered away, but I doubt he went to find the Taliban so he could join up. He was captured when they came upon him, and he was beaten and put into a cage when he tried to escape. He dug a trench with his hands to hide from them, and they found him an brought him back. His health was failing, and he was in danger of being killed.

He and his father are being made to be horrible people, and many on the right have even called for their execution. All before the facts have come out. It's a disgraceful time in our history as Americans. We don't leave our troops behind... I hope that they are able to come up with a resolution that does not make him the political scapegoat that the right is turning him into.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. You're going to piss off the conservatives who post on this board

Dudes who spent two years in the Air Force stateside are very, very annoyed at Sgt Bergdahl.

[Katashi_itto]

48. +10000 Don't forget that "wrote" books for the war college on completely unrelated subjects

who think they have something to say

[Jenoch]

12. I do not think it is in President Obama's best interests

or the best interests of the Democrati party for President Obama to meet with Bowe Bergdahl. At the very least, it would appear hiw punishment will be a dishonorable discharge.

[mopinko]

14. eggsactly. that is why i am betting on him to do it.

his mentor, abe lincoln, pardoned deserters, saying that it was the poorest use of a soldier to shoot him.

this young man needs the kleig lights turned off, and the pres might just be sick enough of it all to draw a line in the sand.
and fuck all the best interests of the party.

[Jenoch]

15. Go back and re-read my post and tell me where the word pardon was used.

[mopinko]

16. reread my post.

[Jenoch]

18. Why did you mention pardon?

That is premature.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I do not think you have read any of what is emerging still

[Jenoch]

45. Is Bergdahl now more

sympathetic now that he is claiming to have been tortured? Sure he is more sympathetic. I believe President Obama should have done this low-key rather than trying to make political gains from it. It turned into a political shitstorm when it did not need to be. Jt couls have been a political positive if handled differently.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. My god, you are hard headed

You know what is sad? I expected him to have suffered torture and worst. This was not in the bit surprising.

It is not about sympathetic, though that helps... I guess you either get it or you don't. and having served actually helps to get it.

[Jenoch]

50. Get what?

Bergdahl was a combination of an idealist and a Rambo wannabe. He left his base more than once, and eventually was captured. He was kept for about five years. He may or may have not been tortured. He may or may not have revealed military tactictal information. His rations were cut last year so his captors could make a video of him not looking to healthy in order to get high valued Taliban prisoners in exchange for him, and it all worked.

What part am I not getting?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. That likely the army will put this to bed

Berghdahl witnessed war crimes. You think that will stay off a court martial? You are that naive?

[Jenoch]

74. What war crimes did he witness?

I did not see where you earlier indicated that the Army will put this to bed. I also did not write anything contrary to that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Read once again the Rolling Stone Article

where his unit is specifically referred as a well known KILL TEAM.

You are indeed that naive. So with that, I will say my goodbyes. I prefer not to engage walls. Suffice it to say, I suspect you have never served... so the obviously there is something wrong the army really does not want exposed here, is not that obvious to you. To those of us who have, even not in the US Military, it is obvious.

Have a good day, consider this my last on this matter with you. That saying about pigs and mud come to mind, and I really do not want to please a pig.

[Jenoch]

80. What's the matter with you?

So it's ok now to call fellow DUers pigs?

You believe only people who have served can post their opinions on this thread?

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. You need to expand horizons

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Oh and welcome to my ignore list... now we add to the list anti intellectualism.

[customerserviceguy]

83. It would also play right into the hands of the Repukes

They could summon him up to Capitol Hill, and he wouldn't have any Fifth Amendment rights to refuse to testify.

[vlakitti]

17. Absolutely. Well put.

Stick it to them right in their faces and let them know some people shouldn't be dragged through the mud.

Shame all these inquisitor-minded two-faced judgmentalists out in the open.

[Live and Learn]

19. Um, shouldn't we at least wait for him to be charged

with a crime before admitting his guilt and asking for a pardon?

Oops, I forgot the Repug model of pardons before charges, let alone convictions. Makes no sense to me still.

[Savannahmann]

23. The Constitution says that's fine

The only limit on Presidential Pardons is impeachment. There is no requirement for arrest, indictment, conviction, or minimum sentence served.

I speak as someone who wishes the President would pardon a lot more people. He has the power of forgiveness, and nothing could be more moral.

[Savannahmann]

21. First, Presidential Pardons are an option

The President has the power to pardon anyone of any Federal Crime before they are charged. There is one limit only, impeachment.

Politically that might be a problem, but there is a faction that blames the President if a baseball game is rained out. You're never going to make them happy.

I mentioned before that a friend asked me what I'd do on day one in the White House if I was President. I told him I'd pardon everyone who had been arrested, charged, or convicted of Marijuana related crimes. All crimes would be forgiven, as long as Marijuana was one of the charges or convictions. He laughed and asked what I'd do the next week when Congress impeached me. I pointed out what I'm telling you now, the President has the power, and no one can place a limit on the powers enumerated within the Constitution without an Amendment.

[GoCubsGo]

22. Pardon him for what?

Nobody even knows what really happened yet. But, yes, the republicans are carrying on yet another one of their charades. Hopefully, more people will start catching onto it soon.

[mopinko]

26. the worst he is accused of

would not bring a sentence longer than time served.
let the man go with a clean slate, and a nations thanks.

[GoCubsGo]

29. Yes, if he is actually guilty.

Until then, any talk of pardons insinuates that he is guilty of those accusations.

[mopinko]

30. no, it insinuates, loudly, that his critics are insane and that he deserves our thanks

and a hale and farewell.

like i said, i would pin a medal on him on the way out.

[spanone]

24. pardon him from what? being convicted by the media?

[mopinko]

25. i want the richard nixon pardon

for crimes he may or may not have committed, crimes real or imagined.

just stop right now.

[spanone]

32. we should convict the media.

[markpkessinger]

27. Even if he is charged . . .

Given President Obama's record of very stingy use of his presidential pardon power, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[mopinko]

31. well, i am starting a book.

i kid you not.
starting off at 5:1, which i think the naysayers will find to attractive to pass up.

[randys1]

28. He grew up in a conservative/libertarian/home schooled Idaho home...so his actions

when he walked away, if he did, HAD to be tied to him seeing something that was NOT right, something he could NOT abide by...

What did he see, why was he disenchanted with our actions there?

I think that will be the question once the crybaby american taliban terrorist teaparty shuts up...

[hrmjustin]

33. I don't think pardoning him is a good idea.

If he went AWOl or deserted he has to answer for that.

But we need to find out what really happened.

[mopinko]

38. its called time served.

that's my point. he has already been punished far in excess of his crimes.
in fact, i will be shocked if the pentagon wants to try this man. i'm sure they would be just as happy to have the whole thing just smothered in the cradle.
for once that would be a good thing.

and let them rant. let them show themselves for all the world, and all our veterans to see.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Average time served for deserters is fourteen months

chew on that one.

This will quietly die...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. He would have to stand trial and be convicted before being pardoned.

Maybe, Obama could practice by pardoning Chelsea Manning.

[mopinko]

37. nope. sorry, just not correct.

just like nixon.

[mopinko]

39. and i would hope for that, too.

i think they would have to give him another peace prize for it, but i would love to see a whole lot of cell doors fly open when the man walks on. and i am srsly betting that they will.

[name not needed]

35. If he deserted, he belongs in prison.

End of story.

[TwilightGardener]

36. Oh christ, I see this everywhere. He's not going

to prison. They aren't going to take a guy who lived off and on in a cage being tortured and put him back in what amounts to a cage, even if he's convicted of desertion. They'll most likely deal with him with things like dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay, prison sentence satisifed with time served as a POW, some kind of community service deal. It may not even come to that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. You of course realize that the average time for deserters these days is 14 months

care to tell me how long he's already spent in confinement?

The worst they will do, assuming there is cause, is a general discharge.

I am betting on an honorable, with back pay, and his POW medal

[Caretha]

51. Interesting response

noted

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I personally do not think we will get to that point

Discharge, medical, back pay, POW medal, put to bed

[mopinko]

44. that better be the worst case scenario.

i would accept that.
but this tar and feathering MUST stop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. That worst case scenario is what should happen

He is not fit to stay in the army, but the rest of what is going is nuts.

So give him his discharge and let it go. (Of course, after the kind of extended psychiatric we owe him as a nation)

[mopinko]

52. yeah, can we also add time served in the hospital recovering?

while the lynch mob gathers outside his room?
he may not be aware, but his family certainly is.

as you can see from this thread, the lies will never die. the bs from the keyboard commandos will never die.
might as well just protect this family, and fuck the rest of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. If the threads continue and become very real...

I will not be too shocked if the whole family leaves the US. And yes, the 101st Chairborne is fully out.

[mopinko]

56. see. i just think it is time to head the chairborne off at the pass.

step on them like the bugs they are.
they will be howling into their echo chamber no matter what happens. who fucking cares.

pardon the family, if you get my drift.

repeat after me.
for the good of the country, to stop this division, i want the full richard nixon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. But a pardon implies admission of guilt

Which I don't think can be established, and a big fat chicken dinner. (Dishonorable discharge)

It has very clear legal consequences.

The chairborne has to be laughed, and made fun off, but a pardon is not the way

[mopinko]

59. nixon never admitted guilt.

ford headed them off then. we should head them off now.

and besides, the pentagon has the file. they know what he is really accused of. i wouldnt be so nuts as to think he would do it over the heads of the fruit salad.

it goes like this-
we have no evidence of a crime. even if there was a crime, which we have no evidence of, this young many has been punished enough.
we will stop this right here, just declare him innocent, honorable discharge, full bennies, give him a medal, if you ask me, and end the whole thing.

if it dies quietly for him, it never ends for his parents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Yes it does

And Nixon was guilty. We just did not bother with the trial. The acceptance of the pardon is acceptance of guilt. You really need to read into what it means. It does have legal consequences.

[progressivebydesign]

77. how messed up must the right be to threaten his home town?

I still can't get my mind around that one. They were making death threats to his hometown for making plans to celebrate his release. Could it really be that we have millions of fully brainwashed people walking around in America?

[backscatter712]

49. A pardon implies he did something wrong.

He not only fought as a soldier for our country, he served as a conscience for our country.

The whole "desertion" story is pure bullshit concocted by right-wing shitbags to demonize him because it was that black President Obama that secured his release, when just a few weeks ago, they were lionizing him, so they could blame that black President for failing to secure his release.

[mopinko]

53. no it doesnt

it implies that everyone involved should be sheltered from here on out.

there would be no legit point to any more carrying on.
they are stripped of their cloak of legitimacy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. You need to read what pardons

are. They do imply admission of guilt for starters.

[mopinko]

62. an implication is not a conviction.

i would accept- pentagon says we will bring no charges, based on the evidence we have.
considering what he has been through, we are not even sure we can accept his testimony as untainted by duress and torture after he has substantially recovered. so, we have decided to let him tell his story to his shrinks, and leave it behind those sacred doors.
hows that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. I expect the Art 32 to go nowhere

Partly for very self serving reasons.

That is not a pardon, incidentally.

[MADem]

79. You are right--it doesn't IMPLY--it STATES. And this guy has not been charged with anything.

I think you need to take your ill-advised idea for a pardon and back away.

[Antler]

60. Sends a terrible message...

If he really wandered off then he needs to pay for the time, resources and potentially, the lives expended because of that choice.

It also would set a terrible precedent.

If he didn't then send him on his way with all the help he deserves...

[mopinko]

64. the precedent was set in 1776

no such thing has EVER happened. you are out in the out there.

[Horse with no Name]

65. there were no lives lost..what else ya got?

http://freakoutnation.com/2014/06/04/report-the-deaths-of-8-soldiers-attributed-to-pow-bergdahl-is-false/

>>>snip
After CNN reported as a fact that “at least six soldiers died” looking for Sergeant Bergdahl after senior American military officials say he wandered off his base, others followed the lead. The narrative is out there, and it’s being echoed throughout the Internet. The New York Times looked into the matter and found that claim to be ‘murky.’

The Times reviewed casualty reports and contemporaneous military logs from the Afghanistan war which shows that the facts surrounding the eight deaths are far murkier than definitive — even as critics of Sergeant Bergdahl contend that every American combat death in Paktika Province in the months after he disappeared, from July to September 2009, was his fault.

During the most intense period of the search after Bergdahl disappeared two soldiers died.. Both of the now deceased soldiers were inside an outpost that came under attack. They were not out patrolling and running checkpoints looking for him. As for the other six soldiers,, they died in late August and early September.

[Antler]

66. While there are conflicting accounts and stories...

... I expect the truth will come out either way. I don't think it's there yet.

Even if you assume that no lives were lost...

It is still unacceptable to wander away from your military duties. The Idea that he has been punished enough is silly.

If a Joe runs off in the states to Mexico and runs into the Zetas, he is still on the hook for desertion / AWOL. The fact that it was in an active war zone makes it worse.

All of this is dependent on the desertion story being true. I would be much happier if it weren't.

If it is though the message has to be 100% clear.

Throwing down your rifle and taking off because you 'don't feel like it anymore' will result in significant and lasting penalties.

There are ways to get out through legal means.

[mopinko]

69. i dont expect the truth to come out, ever. without it being muddied at every turn.

[Antler]

73. Not all of it I suppose. .

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I think we'll figure out if he wandered off in search of adventure or if he was legitimately snatched due to no fault of his own.

Attributed deaths are too open to those with an agenda perhaps.

[randome]

68. Hell no! Can you imagine a pardon with that first name printed on it? Yuck!

How do you even pronounce it? Is it 'Boh'? 'Bow'? 'Boo-ee'? It's too complicated to figure out!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[NM_Birder]

70. and the dead guys that went looking for him, nothing hanging over thier heads but a chunk of granite

[MADem]

81. Yes, while he was gallivanting through the wildflowers, living large in his Afghan pajamas...

Stop acting like you know what went on, with this guy, with orders to other units, or anything having to do with this case. Because you don't. No one does, save the officer doing the inquiry report. And even he or she is probably mired in plenty of "fog of war" recollections.

Further: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/08/us/bergdahl-search-soldiers/

A U.S. official told CNN last week that Pentagon and Army officials have looked at the claims, and "right now there is no evidence to back that up."
The six men killed were in the 501st Infantry. All of them were killed in Paktika Province between August 18 and September 6, 2009, after the intense initial search for Bergdahl concluded but within the two- to three-month period when, by accounts from more than 20 members of the 501st, essentially every mission in the province had a PR component to it. One of those killed was from Comanche Company, two of those killed were in Bergdahl's Blackfoot Company, three were from Headquarters Company.

[NM_Birder]

84. You trust US official reports when they support what you want to hear.

"Official" Tillman reports ring any bells ?
I feel for the guys that died and their families, believing they were searching for a brother in arms. Fuck Bergdahl, and his parents.

cut and paste "Official US reports", I will continue to not care. Fuck Bergdahl, and Fuck him hard.

[MADem]

86. Wow, you're a real charmer. That last sentence of yours says more about you than you realize.

You must be very proud of yourself.

[NM_Birder]

87. yes I agree, I said it so I underwstand exactly what it says about me, and yes.

[Travelman]

71. That's a political disaster

Pardoning him, first and foremost, is an acknowledgement that he did something wrong. If Obama did that, then he'd be effectively admitting that Bergdahl deserted (whether that's true or not).

Furthermore, if you think the shitstorm is bad now, it will look like freaking Armageddon if Obama did that pre-emptively. The meltdown would be absolutely beyond belief. November will be an absolute BLOODBATH if he did that. We're talking veto-proof R majorities in both houses. If this goes to an Article 32 hearing, and comes out of such a hearing for a court-martial, then maybe it's time to step in, But right now, pardoning him pre-emptively is signing a political death warrant. His Presidency is utterly and completely over before the ink dries on the pardon.

The best thing that Obama can do at this point is let this play out. That will allow him, no matter what happens, to say in the end that he "let justice take its course."

Bear ye in mind that IF this goes to an Article 32 hearing and subsequently to a court-martial, we're talking a year at a bare minimum before the court-martial is gaveled in. Probably more. What was it? Two years between arrest and sentencing for (then) Bradley Manning? And the likelihood is that during that time, Bergdahl would be free, not held in pre-trial confinement. If Obama pardons Bergdahl on his way out the door in January of 2016, then nobody really cares because all Presidents send off a flurry of pardons as they leave.

[NCTraveler]

72. For what crime?

Preemptive pardon. lol.

[MADem]

78. WTF? Pardon him for WHAT? He hasn't been CHARGED with anything.

Way to rush to judgment.

He's an innocent man--why do you want to throw a "pardon" at him, like you're assuming he's done anything wrong?

The military has procedures in place for a reason. Let them play out.

That kind of crap is NOT helpful. Your post basically insinuates that you think he is guilty of something but you believe that extenuating circumstances make him deserving of a "pardon."

Again--he's an innocent man.

Stop accusing him of crimes not proven, and demanding forgiveness for them.

You're not doing him any favors.

[mopinko]

85. a pardon is a misleading word, perhaps.

but legally, what it really is is not a statement of forgiveness.
it is a statement of innocence.
there is no need to mistakenly declare a man guilty just to proclaim him innocent.

he can proclaim him innocent right now and end this.