= new reply since forum marked as read
Do not let it sadden you. Let it strengthen you.
It was a dumb ass alert. You know it and I know it and people that read it and understand it will know it. A seven-zero goes to MIRT automatically now.
I read earlier in AA that people feel like they want to leave. I understand that feeling though I hope they do not. We need your voices here and I would miss everyone of you if you left. I will always take your back, the same way I take this Presidents back. We are all better together. We are stronger together.
bravenak.
Although I'm honestly not convinced that the OP intentionally violated TOS or even Community Standards(intent does count for quite a bit, IMO, but there's no real reason to doubt that this ended up being flame bait), I can't help at least sympathize a little bit with whoever alerted on this; yes, there HAS been a lot of shit-stirring going on. And 90% of that has been the product of a certain few malcontents on here.
Let's not kid ourselves here. We have indeed had a problem lately. And it needs to be addressed more often.
Thanks for letting us know of the alert.
Sid
It was a shot out of misery - if I'm not for me? Who will be! 
He's joined some group/gave money to them to try and stop the celebration of Columbus Day. 
And according to him - Cristo does not'a getta be Italian anymore!
He disowned him!!! Lord you must love being with him. My husband says the darndest things too! We could do a TV show.
I stopped buying paper books since i try to only use recycled paper if i can. It feels weird but it works and i may save one tree in my life. 
They also threw the Mormons under the bus. Yeah - I know it's crazy but it is true. Black folks and Mormons were the target dujour for their targeting.
Connect the dots -
Rushdooney and the Koch Brothers Daddy.
These dots lead to a man by the name of Howard F. Ahmanson
Who is hooked in with James Dobson
And James Dobson's 'movement' had a huge influx of cash from Edgar and Elsa Prince.
And Elsa Remarried after Edgar died - and her name is now Elsa Prince Broekhuizen. She's still a member of what I understand folks in Western Michigan refer to as the 'Dutch Mafia'. In Holland MI - at one time they were the largest employer. She has four children.
Her oldest daughter goes by the name Betsy. She was born Elizabeth Prince and married into the Devos family prior to her father Edgar's death. Her husband is THE Devos of Amway fame.
Elsa's youngest goes by the name Erik - he actually testified in front of Congress about 7 years ago for his company's involvement in some of the horrors they were involved in Iraq.
Elsa - she gave a HUGE chunk to keep same sex couples from being married out of California in 2008.
The Devos Clan is giving heavily to causes to bring about the end of Public Education.
Erik Prince - in April was at a meeting of Hedgies in NYC to discuss/push Charter schools in Manhattan.
The Koch brothers are giving 25 Million to the UNCF - perhaps hoping to bring unaware young black collegiate level students at the Historically black Universities and colleges into their fold - as reported last week.
When you take EACH of these dots separately - they don't amount to much.
But when you lay it all out - when you connect the dots - it becomes crystal clear.
I'm stating it outside of the AA Group -we cannot afford for them to prevent the rights of the GLBT community. A strike against the GLBT community - after those 'dots' blamed that HUGE strike on us - it's a strike against us.
And I'm posting this to you because you ARE young hip and aware and will tell others.
the great civil rights heroes, JFK and LBJ, weren't all that ... JFK, as a Senator, voted against Civil Rights legislation ... twice, and LBJ's pushing of the CRA of 1964 was more a recognition of the 125,000 WWII and the 600,000 Korean War veterans that (mistakenly, IMO) saw the death of President Kennedy, as the last, best peaceful chance at getting the rights that the US government trained them to fight for others, but were being denied here at home ... then with the assassination of Dr. King, LBJ recognized that had he NOT worked to pass the CRA, there would violence.
But that is not the liberal history that we must know ... pointing out all of the above is seen as "divisive" because ... well ... the liberal "heroes" weren't/aren't our heroes. (In the words of Public Enemy, "The face of my heroes don't appear on a stamp!"
We are not the fringe and many liberals will attempt to shut down the conversation concerning things we find to be issues with the party.
Our views need to be listened to and put up front with everyone else's concerns and not be treated like the fringe or a special interest group.
Here's the problem: you don't represent many African-Americans. Some, maybe. Many? No. And furthermore, I didn't say that all Blacks or other PoC were the fringe. and I have no blooming idea where you came up with that assumption.
No, the fringe includes those people, of any ethnicity, mind you, who, like in this case, engage in revisionist history, such as what Katznelson has done.....it's the same type of M.O. that rightists like David Barton or Andrew Breitbart, etc., use to push their agendas. We shouldn't be doing the same. We should know better than this, especially someone like Ta-Nehisi Coates(or Alexander Cockburn, though Cockburn's dead now).
Well played, sir. I say, well played.
I will not alert on the 'eye rolling' in another post above - but really -
Yes - bravenak really DOES touch on the way MANY MANY MANY black Americans feel.
And frankly I'm sick and tired of 20-something (here come more age wars 
) young folks/men who are NOT living my life and have
ZERO IDEA about it
Trying to tell folks like me what our REALITY is.
Reality - I have more 'street cred' speaking about the experience of living as a minority woman in the 'sidelines' of the DOMINANT culture and I have faaaaaaaaaaaaar more knowledge of the dominant culture than they
EVER WILL OF ME.
Now lets just stop this nonsense right now. And thank you Warren for posting this. 
Does this get your rocks off or something? You know for a fact that I have never denied AGW on this site, and you have never been able to find any proof to the contrary.....gee, shouldn't that tell you something? As in, maybe I'm really telling the truth after all?
I think this quote really gets to what is "problematic" for people - they just want to see the parts of history that make them feel better, not the parts that teach them about the realities of politics - as in, strange bedfellows - MLK's dad used the political system to help get MLK released from jail, in Birmingham, where his very life was in danger - in prison. So MLK's dad wondered, from his influential pulpit, about the possible problem of "Catholicism" and the vote for Kennedy.
Kennedy was on the phone immediately afterward and got MLK out of jail - and MLK's dad went on to support Kennedy. Do I think MLK's dad was anti-Catholic? no. But I think he was in a situation where he could use his influence to make something happen, and he did.
This "strange bedfellows" issue is part of political life. FDR and southern whites were both "progressives" according to the understanding of this, politically, at the time. Southern white progressives were also overwhelmingly racist, or they were willing to play to white southern racism.
Does it mean that the New Deal was worthless? No. Is the point that Roosevelt was a covert anti-black bigot? Nope. But it is part of our history. And it is as important to acknowledge this--just as, when the history of marriage equality is written, it will be important to acknowledge the Democratic Party's "evolution."
I've said things here about the south that have riled people - but I've said them as someone who grew up in the south and, sort of, rejected it because the history made me so angry. I didn't want that to be part of the history of people who, no doubt, included relatives of mine from the past.
The only way, or one of the few, bar-be-que is another...
I can approach southern culture without anger is through African Americans who I know whose families were also from the south. I've had an interesting experience in the recent past - a friend who's African American, whose family is from the south, who didn't have the negatives toward certain aspects of white culture in the south that I did.. and we talked about things from his perspective. Another friend, the same sort of situation, once told me that blacks didn't want to be angry with whites - they just wanted to be friends and neighbors, not enemies - because I had said something about how I would be angry if I were African American in regard to this or that. They both taught me something about a "grace of spirit" - tho one is an atheist and the other is definitely not - but they taught me about seeing and hearing without anger because I didn't want to be associated with things I thought were "bad."
History is complex - I think that's the ultimate point Coates is getting at. I'm like you - I don't have nostalgia for the past (tho I am interested in history and artifacts). I don't want to forget the compromises that were made, tho, often at the expense of African Americans in this nation because, again, as Coates says, race has functioned as a class system, especially in the south, and especially as a way to align white interests when they don't align via class.
People want to keep this reality invisible.
not libertarian. I just say he's libertarian because he likes Ayn Rand, but not libertarianism. I tell him I don't like her work at all. He told me, just now, he's not libertarian so I need to stop saying that about him. LOL. so, okay. he's not libertarian.
..even tho he likes that Russian woman's fiction...
When I asked him, he didn't know the context and he was responding just about culture in general and he said, first, politicians are coached to never show anger (he was talking about African American politicians, in particular.) Then said it can be dangerous around law enforcement types.
And I said, yeah, but I mean "you" (him) specifically. So I said - would you not show your anger around a white person you know here? (where we live)
And he said - when I am angry, everyone knows it.
And I said - yeah, that was the impression I got - but he's never been angry with me. he plays music with a guy I know, a white guy, where my friend says, in that capacity, he is HNIC.
I didn't know what that meant, so he told me, and I said I would never use that expression - but he says it about himself, in a Morgan Freeman in that movie Lean On Me kinda way - so that's where I was coming from when I thought he would have no problem expressing his anger. And he is "HNIC" in that capacity - I've seen it.
He's someone I asked to house share with me in the recent past because I need a roommate, or else I need to move, and I don't want to have to have some 18 year old southern baptist girl sharing a house with me... neither of us would be happy.. LOL... so I asked him b/c he's renting and we know a lot of the same people and we have always gotten along. always been honest, I thought. so I asked him if he felt like he couldn't be honest with me. He laughed at the idea. He's really straight forward - which is something I like about him.
I would never doubt for a moment what you say about what someone is taught - I was responding to you, seemingly, telling me that what he said to me wasn't genuinely talking about what's in his heart, in relation to his frame of mind - IN SPITE of the shitty things he's had to deal with - some of which I know about, much of which I'm sure I do not. The context of the remark was whether or not he would want to share living space with a white person (that would've been me) or if that would be too weird. What he thought would be too weird is that I'm a female and we're not romantically involved. But I've always shared living space with males (I have two sons), so, to me, it would be no big deal.
But that's why I also wrote about what I had been taught, versus what I did - to say - it's about him as a person, tho, yes, I know it's dangerous for black men in American society, oftentimes, to express anger in situations in which white people have some say over what happens to you.
but a woman I used to work with, from Grenada, not the U.S. was never afraid to express her anger with her co-workers - and no one thought she should have to temper her words. A woman who is Af-Am who is a friend of mine - she's never been angry with me, but I've heard her anger when she's shared some stuff with me... just two examples out of a lot - but these are both people I am or was close to, as a friend.
But that guy, even tho he says exactly what he thinks - people love him as a person because he's funny and nice - and, sometimes, angry.
.....but in all truthfulness, there is no completely separate "white history"
WTF?) or "black history". Everything ties together; Jim Crow and segregation, and the Civil Rights Movement that followed to combat them, are totally inseparable from the American historical record.
As I tried to point out earlier, TBH, everything does tie together.....in other words, "black history" is, in a sense, just one part of the whole history of the country. It is indeed inseparable from what you call "white history". It's all history.
Although, to be fair & honest, I do sincerely think we can both agree that mainstream schooling often doesn't teach us enough about how things really were in general, and I do think some of these alternate college courses can indeed offer some new perspectives that you might not normally receive in regular studies.
BTW, I'm sure you may have heard of Carter G. Woodson, by the way? I recently read one of his books on Google; I believe it may have been called "The History of the Negro in America" or something along those lines, and was published in 1922, or thereabouts.
Because frankly, it already seems apparent that, based on what you've said here, you likely aren't going to listen to a damn thing I try to point out. Yeah, I do hate to sound harsh, but this kind of thing has happened to me more times than I can count, or care to try to estimate, even. Sad but true.
Let me say this before I leave, however: what are some of Rand Paul's left wing views, besides his opposition to police-state tactics and the Drug War?
in this thread 
Other than what you've mentioned, I can't think of any left-wing positions Rand Paul holds. Perhaps some foreign policy overlap with some on the left. But nobody is going to call him a left-winger. Why do you ask?
You make a nice point about transformation and about inclusion. And, of course, that inclusion has transformed the party as well, so it works both ways.
Interesting about the anti-lynching law and Harding--I think the Republicans had it in their platform in 1920. The democrats, if I'm not mistaken, never added it. Even FDR didn't push for anti-lynching laws (though he did establish the Civil Rights Section in the Justice Department to try to fight the practice).
Thanks for the kind words, JustAnotherGen!
I was truly blown away by your clear logic and explanation of Bilbo's ideology and political strategy.
Everything is illuminated.
You go girl
the history of eugenics is interesting to me. Hitler got his eugenic ideas from the USA and progressives like Margaret Sanger, were for it but you have to keep that in the context of that time(to a point) as ugly as that is. anyway now i need to see if the author of this atlantic piece has books. I thought his reparation piece was really good. if only i could get off of DU and facebook to read. lol at any rate even though i find all this and your other posts interesting and NOT worthy of hiding (geesh) i have this feeling you are posting this because you think this piece gives background and might explain why you think white people of DU are so critical of Obama. anecdotally i know quite a few leftist none DU folks of all races who are highly critical of him as well so i don't believe it is only white folk, maybe on DU. i have lotsa of facebook friends who are leftist opinion writers for various periodicals and many discussions are had and people of all races join in with their criticisms..
anyway i wanted to let you know i enjoy your contributions even if i don't agree with you. your threads are always interesting! I really do believe all white folk have ingrained racism based on environment that always needs to be acknowledged and addressed whether we want to admit it or not, but criticism of a politician over policy is often just that, nothing nefarious!
anyway, keep on posting! i opted out of jury service for now while i am relatively new so i don't alert on threads OR put people on ignore but i doubt i would ever alert on you. i would disagree in a response perhaps but never alert!
on edit: let me add. the staunchist obama supporter facebook friends of mine are my gay friends, they are also major Hillary supporters, which i am not. lol
"My point was that as demographics shift the country will get more and more liberal. With the way conservatives have alienated minorities, lgbt, and women, we are accumulating more voters everyday."
I could not agree more.
"The rest was that this place does not have a strong presence of many of the groups that make up the presidents strongest supporters, youths, minorities, who strongly support him. That is why it seems like there is such a lack of support since in realty most of the party as a whole supports him."
Here's the thing: A lot of the older people here are yellowdog Democrats. That means that they have voted for no one else but Democrats for their entire lives. Many of us have voted for Democrats in every election for 30, 40, 50 years or more. Most of we older people have been politically aware and active all that time, and have seen a lot of shit go down. We don't generally trust politicians of any stripe, but we always vote for Democrats because we understand that even the worst Democrat is better than the best republican. We all voted for Obama twice. If he could run and ran against a republican again, we would vote for him again. But we are not thrilled with him. He's much better than any republican would be. We are not in love with personalities. We are in love with the good things they do when they do them. Obama has done some good things. Yay. He's also done some questionable things. Boo. But we don't love him beyond question, and don't believe that he can never make a mistake, ever. We criticize him, legitimately, when he does republican type shit. That's healthy in a democracy. It's good. The last thing we in this country is a bunch of dumbass sheep of stupid blindly accepting everything any leader says and does without question.
The point is, we may not adore Obama like so many do. We'll criticize him mercilessly if we think he fucked up. But when crunch time comes, and he's faced with serious shit from republicans, we will be there, just like we have for every Democrat for the past 30, 40, 50 years.
And I said that in our country, the people trying to take our rights are mostly old, white men, who lean conservative.
I dunno. It appeared to me you just painted all older white men as the problem, and appeared to be specifically targeting older white male liberals specifically a few times. That's what got people a bunch of people all pissed off at you. If a whole bunch of people here get pissed off at you for something, my unsolicited advice is to try to figure out why.
"In response to my apology she posted her thread about me and now i get many angry messages calling me a racist and an ageist."
You've been here less than a year and a half. Madfloridian has been a very respected member of this community for 12 years. I assure you, if she took offense at what you posted, and a whole bunch of other long time members took offense at what you posted, then you definitely came off way wrong to a lot of people.
Thank you for responding to my post, and I'm happy to know that you don't believe that every white liberal Democratic male who criticizes Obama is a racist.
Best wishes to you.
BTW:
So can you, please, explain,, clearly, in thirty words or less the basic bare bones point you are trying to make with all of your posts about white people?
Indeed, that's what I'd like to know as well.
That could be an OP itself, Zorra. 
