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whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:03 AM Jun 2014

Would you be cool with Hillary's faith if she was a Satanist?


5 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
No - because it's evil
2 (40%)
Yes - because being fantasy, it's as harmless the Christian faith
3 (60%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would you be cool with Hillary's faith if she was a Satanist? (Original Post) whatchamacallit Jun 2014 OP
That would make her a Libertarian AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #1
That's just what I was going to say. Aristus Jun 2014 #31
That's LaVayan Satanism. Which is not the same as other forms of Satanism. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #48
Okay. Aristus Jun 2014 #59
the same way being a Christian makes her a Republican? 0rganism Jun 2014 #63
Honestly? No. Way too creepy. nt ecstatic Jun 2014 #2
But see, I strongly suspect they enjoy that reaction far too much. moriah Jun 2014 #8
Depends on the denomination Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #12
We're not creepy Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #9
Sorry. I guess I watch way too many ecstatic Jun 2014 #28
It's ok, I've watched many of those movies too Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #34
Most who self-define as "Satanist" don't believe in the Biblical "Satan", soooooo.... moriah Jun 2014 #3
So why do they call themselves "satanists" then? Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #15
The Satanist in this thread seemed to concur.... moriah Jun 2014 #17
Well, all I can say is that Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #18
What if they told you they were a witch? n/t moriah Jun 2014 #19
That depends Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #21
Well, Satanism got about the same bad rep as witchcraft, and through similar means.... moriah Jun 2014 #23
I think that the word "witch" is kind of neutral Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #30
Why not get to know them and what they believe LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #44
I've known people like that before Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #46
That's the same reason many people despise atheists. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #50
Some people get off on the "edgy" thing. Of course, the same thing can be said about witchcraft. moriah Jun 2014 #49
Why is that? Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #36
Have you ever thought that the term "Satanist" just creeps people out? Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #39
... Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #40
Admittedly, the term "muslim" is viewed negatively by many Christians, Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #43
And what else should we call ourselves? Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #55
Apparently, someone took great umbrage. It was a ridiculous alert, and got what it deserved. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #60
I'm not OK with her, period. Has nothing to do with religeous beliefs. NYC_SKP Jun 2014 #4
I believe that you just described Satanism... R. Daneel Olivaw Jun 2014 #6
I get that whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #7
I actually AM a Satanist Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #5
Ahh, a thiestic Satanist! moriah Jun 2014 #10
There aren't many of us around Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #14
That is fascinating. I've never heard of Satanism from that perspective before. liberal_at_heart Jun 2014 #37
Well, glad to meet you! n/t Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #38
Technically, that is quintessentially satanist. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #45
She worships Wall St... isn't that the same thing? HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #11
I'll have to think about it Skittles Jun 2014 #13
I don't care what a candidate's faith is. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #16
Only if she were a Socialist. roody Jun 2014 #20
LaVeyan Satanism, at least, seems more compatible with Randian libertarianism than with socialism. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #24
I'd be cool with her faith if it was progressive. delrem Jun 2014 #22
An argument can be made that Christianity isn't harmless n/t geomon666 Jun 2014 #25
I'd like it if she was a Wiccan. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #26
But do we really want them to get better? n/t moriah Jun 2014 #47
I was OK with Nixon being a Quaker. And, I'm OK with Hil being a Methodist. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #27
Muslin, Satinist, Linenist? What's the diff? n/t eridani Jun 2014 #29
No. Jenoch Jun 2014 #32
For me the turn off is not the religion but the particular religious group that she hung with newthinking Jun 2014 #33
Well... it wouldn't be pandering BS, but it's still just magical thinking. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #35
Well, at least you're consistent Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #41
Would you be cool with Rand Paul if he was aa atheist? rug Jun 2014 #42
If she was a Stalinist I doubt she'd be a popular president. Kablooie Jun 2014 #51
The only thing Stalinists and Satanists have in common is hipster facial hair: Ken Burch Jun 2014 #54
moot point. There's no conflict between satanism and support for military interventionism. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2014 #52
Um, fuck no. Skip Intro Jun 2014 #53
I'd be happy to see... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #56
I'm, what I liked to call, a constitutional atheist. Javaman Jun 2014 #57
At least it would be something different and new for a presidential candidate . . . hatrack Jun 2014 #58
She could worship me, and I still wouldn't vote for her. bigwillq Jun 2014 #61
Coming out as a Satanist would be a remarkable act of political courage... Orsino Jun 2014 #62

Aristus

(67,081 posts)
31. That's just what I was going to say.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:54 AM
Jun 2014

Check these out:

The Nine Satanic Statements
1.Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2.Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3.Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
4.Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5.Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6.Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7.Satan represents man as just another animal (sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours), who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all.
8.Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9.Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years.

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1.Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2.Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3.When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4.If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5.Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6.Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7.Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8.Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9.Do not harm young children.
10.Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism#The_Eleven_Satanic_Rules_of_the_Earth

0rganism

(24,236 posts)
63. the same way being a Christian makes her a Republican?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:26 PM
Jun 2014

because we all know there's only one kind, right?

moriah

(8,312 posts)
8. But see, I strongly suspect they enjoy that reaction far too much.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:09 AM
Jun 2014

Given that "Satanism" describes a wide variety of beliefs, many of which seem to have little to do with literary or religious interpretations of Satan or Lucifer, that I think sometimes the name was deliberately chosen just to freak people out.

But hey, my religion's got its quirks in its founding too. I ain't judgin'.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
12. Depends on the denomination
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:12 AM
Jun 2014

I'm a Luciferian Satanist. We use "Luciferian" because that's the name most of us use to address our deity and "Satanism" because we do worship the being Christians commonly refer to as Satan. LaVeyan Satanism is called that because LaVey liked pissing off Christians, he was entirely honest about that.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
9. We're not creepy
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:09 AM
Jun 2014

None of the smears against us are true. We don't kidnap people, sacrifice humans or animals, sexually abuse kids or anything else you might have heard. We're a faith, much like any other.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
34. It's ok, I've watched many of those movies too
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:15 AM
Jun 2014

But here's the thing: The movies almost never get anything right, let alone religion. You've probably seen some movie bad guys who claim to be practicing voodoo as well but a houngun wouldn't recognise his own faith in what's on screen. And the movie rpresentations of my faith are about as accurate.

I have an alter. Not all Satanists do but I do. And when I wish to pray, I knee before my alter (swearing at the pain in my knees), I burn a symbolic pinch of herbs (which symbolises Father Lucifer's sacrifice), light a candle and some incense (no spiritual reason, they just make the place smell nice) and I start my prayer by saying "Father Lucifer, light-bringer, star of the morning, great dragon, first to fall. In your sight, I pray". That helps me centre myself and get in the right state of mind to worship. Then I say my prayer. And I conclude by saying "Always in your name" (a reminder that I am representing Father Lucifer as I live in the world).

But if you couldn't hear what I was saying, if you could only see me, knelt in front of my alter with clasped hands and a bowed head, you wouldn't know that my faith was any different from any other.

The movies are fine, some are even very good (see Rosemary's Baby if you haven't) but they're fiction. The Wicker Man doesn't represent pagans and Black Circle Boys (or whatever) doesn't represent us.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
15. So why do they call themselves "satanists" then?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:16 AM
Jun 2014

Is there another Satan that none except the Believers have heard about?

moriah

(8,312 posts)
17. The Satanist in this thread seemed to concur....
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:18 AM
Jun 2014

.... they chose the name to piss Christians off and be all edgy.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
18. Well, all I can say is that
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:21 AM
Jun 2014

if someone told me they were a Satanist, it would be similar to saying they were a Nazi.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
21. That depends
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:30 AM
Jun 2014

Back in the '60s, I was friends with the neighbor's granddaughter, who would often come for a two-week visit during the summer. She claimed her mother was a witch, and the mother actually put on a display one time by coaxing a frog to come out from under the house. That was at a time when Bewitched was being broadcast as a prime time show on TV, so my image of her mother was as a "Samantha Stevens" type. So I might not be uncomfortable with that, unless the person started talking about weird and creepy stuff.

moriah

(8,312 posts)
23. Well, Satanism got about the same bad rep as witchcraft, and through similar means....
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:40 AM
Jun 2014

... the way most people think of "Satanists", the whole "Satanic Panic" craze of the 80's and early 90's, is pretty distorted from the reality of those who use the name. And just like those who use the term "witch", there are a lot of different groups out there that believe pretty different things.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm

Has a lot of good information about the various groups and also about myths vs reality.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
30. I think that the word "witch" is kind of neutral
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:53 AM
Jun 2014

It can have a bad image, like the Wicked Witch of the West, or it can be good image, like Samantha Stevens, the Good Witch of the North, and lovable cartoon witches like Sabrina the Teenage Witch and Wendy the Good Little Witch from Casper the Friendly Ghost.

"Santanist", on the other hand, immediately conjures up images of someone who follows a Dark Lord. To me that is pretty creepy, and I would avoid someone like that.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
50. That's the same reason many people despise atheists.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:30 AM
Jun 2014

They've been brainwashed to believe that we're evil because we "reject" Jesus Christ.

moriah

(8,312 posts)
49. Some people get off on the "edgy" thing. Of course, the same thing can be said about witchcraft.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:26 AM
Jun 2014

I'm not going to deny that part of the appeal when I was learning about this new religion called Wicca was that it was unique, and different, and I liked being both. There were, of course, also aspects of the religion that spoke to me, so the two in combination made me at first want to be very "out" about my newfound faith (except to my very Baptist grandmother).

After a boss searched my cubicle looking for voodoo dolls of her after learning I considered myself to be a witch, I decided perhaps it was best to back it down a notch. I wear no jewelry that readily identifies me as Pagan or Wiccan, because a star in a circle freaks a lot of people out down here in the South. I don't advertise it that often because people either freak out or get all "woo" with me and want to know all about it and if I really have any Seekrit Magickal Powerz. I practice primarily with people I've known for a decade or more.

Just like my religion started with a dirty old man wanting to chase after naked women under the moonlight with a whip in hand and then screw them, so he made a religion so he could (fortunately one of those women turned it into a religion actually worth following, and no you aren't going to find ritual sex or scourgings, or even much nakedness under the moon, in the vast majority of modern Wiccan Circles) -- religions become more than their founders started with, even in a short amount of time.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
36. Why is that?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:17 AM
Jun 2014

I don't understand why it would be like saying we were a Nazi. We don't have uniforms, we don't kill people, we really don't do unquestioning obedience so why the association? Are you judging us by what we've said or what others have said about us?

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
39. Have you ever thought that the term "Satanist" just creeps people out?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:39 AM
Jun 2014

Why even claim that as your name? If it's just to make Christians and others squeamish, fine, you've accomplished that, but it's creepy, and conveys a very negative image of the practitioner right off the bat.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
40. ...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:49 AM
Jun 2014

OK, Satanism comes in a couple of different flavours. LaVeyan Satanism really did pick the name just to piss off Christians. LaVey was pretty honest about that. I'm a Luciferian Satanist. That means that I worship Satan (whom I call Lucifer) as the justified rebel against a tyrannical god. So why choose that name? Because we worship the being commonly called Satan. We could just call ourselves "Luciferians" instead and I did for a while but pretty much everyone thinks of you as a Satanist anyway.

Also, think about what you just said and how it would seem if you inserted another faith in there. Why even claim "Muslim" as your name when it's going to creep some people out? You're asking us to change the name of our faith purely because some people have lied about us. You're blaming the victim, telling us we bring it on ourselves.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
43. Admittedly, the term "muslim" is viewed negatively by many Christians,
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:01 AM
Jun 2014

but is usually not considered to be inherently evil.

On the other hand, in the Christian world, "Satan" is the personification of "evil" and is universally viewed with contempt.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
55. And what else should we call ourselves?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:07 AM
Jun 2014

We worship the being commonly called Satan. We can call ourselves "Luciferian" but everyone hears "Satanist" anyway. We worship Satan, what else would we call ourselves? And why should we not use the name of our deity?

Upthread, you said you "didn't want to be a part of that world". What world? Because most of us don't have a world any different from the one you have. The ones that vandalise graveyards, sacrifice animals, etc, they're universally teenage posers. The rest of us can't stand them, for fairly obvious reasons.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,325 posts)
60. Apparently, someone took great umbrage. It was a ridiculous alert, and got what it deserved.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:03 PM
Jun 2014
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service


On Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Well, all I can say is that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5109758

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Comparing Satanist nazis. Does not back down from that even when confronted.

We would not put up with this if it was said about any other group. Lets send a message that DU does not support this type of bigotry
.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:38 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's just a completely irrational comment with no logical connection between the two groups. I want it hidden because I'm tired of stupid analogies that make no useful sense and lean toward prejudice.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh, please.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Godwin's Law aside, this is an absolutely insulting, wrong, and bigoted comparison. If Satanists were behind mass genocides, I would've voted "leave".
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
4. I'm not OK with her, period. Has nothing to do with religeous beliefs.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

Has to do with the IWR, NAFTA, Walmart, Tata, outsourcing, etc.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
7. I get that
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:09 AM
Jun 2014

but there are a lot people who say they don't find her faith objectionable or detrimental to her performance as president. I'm just trying to see if there are limits to their religious acceptance.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
5. I actually AM a Satanist
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jun 2014

Not kidding, I'm a Luciferian Satanist (in the simplest terms, I worship Father Lucifer as the justified rebel against a tyrannical god). I'd be overjoyed if Hillary shared my faith.

moriah

(8,312 posts)
10. Ahh, a thiestic Satanist!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:10 AM
Jun 2014

Nice to make your acquaintance, actually never met one of you IRL. Everyone I knew who claimed the title was more LaVey-influenced.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
14. There aren't many of us around
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:14 AM
Jun 2014

I suspect most of us came to our beliefs as solo thinkers. It's only the advent of the internet that has allowed us to come together. Nice to meet you too.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
45. Technically, that is quintessentially satanist.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:08 AM
Jun 2014

The kind of "satanism" talked of by Christian Fundamentalists is intentionally obscurantist. When they say "satanist" they are simply saying "enemy." There's very little deeper to the matter.

Real satanism is not only much more complex, it expresses beliefs held in all kinds of philosophical and metaphysical fields.

You simply have to abandon the notion that Lucifer was evil, or even question the nature of evil itself, and all hell breaks loose, metaphorically speaking.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
24. LaVeyan Satanism, at least, seems more compatible with Randian libertarianism than with socialism.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jun 2014

So needless to say, I'm not a huge fan of it. As far as Luciferian Satanism, I have no idea of its adherents' politics - though we do have one presumably left-leaning poster on this thread who professes the faith.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
26. I'd like it if she was a Wiccan.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:48 AM
Jun 2014

She could keep a big cauldron in the Oval Office along with her potions and cast spells to turn people like Vladimir Putin into toads when they annoyed her.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
27. I was OK with Nixon being a Quaker. And, I'm OK with Hil being a Methodist.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:48 AM
Jun 2014

I didn't vote for Nixon. I won't vote for Hillary.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
33. For me the turn off is not the religion but the particular religious group that she hung with
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:11 AM
Jun 2014

They are a serious fundamentalist cult and their goals are political - Right Wing.

Kablooie

(18,695 posts)
51. If she was a Stalinist I doubt she'd be a popular president.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:33 AM
Jun 2014

--- what's that? ---

Oh. Well, that's different.
Sure, that'd be fine.

Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
53. Um, fuck no.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:36 AM
Jun 2014

No, I would not only be not cool with it, I would work against her being elected.

Hopefully it won't come to that.

Javaman

(62,735 posts)
57. I'm, what I liked to call, a constitutional atheist.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:15 AM
Jun 2014

that means you can pray to or for anything you like as long as you don't bother me with it.

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