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Sun Jun 29, 2014, 01:12 PM

"Wednesday was the worst day of my life…"

Last edited Sun Jun 29, 2014, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)












I really love that little girl, I hope that she never loses her willingness to speak truth to power.

But the fact that an innocent grown Black guy was handcuffed and questioned for FIVE HOURS, all on the casual and racially stereotypical implication of some 17 YO and then was only absolved 30 seconds after the word of a little 4 YO white girl, says way more about our society and law enforcement than ANYTHING else. A little 4 YO white girl has more systematic power and impact over a black man's fate than his own innocence.

Welcome to White Privilege, everybody!

76 replies, 9635 views

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Reply "Wednesday was the worst day of my life…" (Original post)
MrScorpio Jun 2014 OP
liberalhistorian Jun 2014 #1
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #2
calimary Jun 2014 #6
BumRushDaShow Jun 2014 #12
navarth Jun 2014 #16
nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #59
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #46
calimary Jun 2014 #47
heaven05 Jun 2014 #19
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #45
nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #61
freshwest Jun 2014 #3
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #65
freshwest Jun 2014 #69
rudolph the red Jun 2014 #4
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #5
rudolph the red Jun 2014 #38
Iggo Jun 2014 #7
laundry_queen Jun 2014 #20
dsc Jun 2014 #37
Warpy Jun 2014 #8
hunter Jun 2014 #9
JoeyT Jun 2014 #10
BumRushDaShow Jun 2014 #11
Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #13
heaven05 Jun 2014 #14
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #15
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #17
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #18
heaven05 Jun 2014 #21
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #23
heaven05 Jun 2014 #26
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #22
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #24
heaven05 Jun 2014 #28
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #34
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #30
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #31
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #35
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #39
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #40
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #41
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #43
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #49
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #50
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #51
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #55
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #58
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #62
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #68
The Magistrate Jun 2014 #52
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #56
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #60
The Magistrate Jun 2014 #63
stage left Jun 2014 #53
heaven05 Jun 2014 #27
hunter Jun 2014 #36
Zenlitened Jun 2014 #42
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #44
Zenlitened Jun 2014 #54
RainDog Jun 2014 #57
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #64
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #71
XemaSab Jun 2014 #72
BumRushDaShow Jun 2014 #74
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #70
RainDog Jun 2014 #73
stage left Jun 2014 #76
Scuba Jun 2014 #25
heaven05 Jun 2014 #29
JI7 Jun 2014 #32
MrScorpio Jun 2014 #33
Cha Jun 2014 #48
AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #66
Cha Jun 2014 #67
WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #75

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 01:44 PM

1. It sickens me that this shit is still going

on in the year 2014; in fact, it appears to be getting worse. But, as a white gal living on an Indian reservation in a white-majority state that is VERY overtly and blatantly racist against its substantial native American population, that this shit is very much alive and well. In this state, the word of ANY white person, no matter the age or known character, appears to carry far more weight than any native American. Many police departments just automatically believe any accusations made against native americans by whites and don't bother to investigate much of anything.

Hell, when an eight-year-old Indian girl can be tasered to the point of serious injury in the state's capital because some Barney Fife thought she was a "threat", and when the openly racist state attorney general, who seems to make it his mission to screw Indians over legally, rubber-stamps said officer's clearance as "justified" without even doing hardly any investigation, then such attitudes against Indians here shouldn't be too surprising.

And this story reminds me of the Susan Smith and Charles Stuart cases. I remember, in the Charles Stuart matter, the police descended on Roxbury like flies on shit, screaming at and roughly handling any black men they could find, even young ones. It never even seemed to occur to the police, or the whites of the city, to do any kind of critical thinking or investigating before automatically believing the rich white guy who just "happened" to drive into the "wrong" kind of neighborhood. If they'd done even a cursory amount of critical thinking beforehand, they would have seen that, even at first look, Stuart's story had more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese.

You'd think by now that police and white society would be more attuned to the possibility of whites using and manipulating racial attitudes and stereotypes to their own advantage in these kinds of cases.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 01:46 PM

2. Damn Skippy! nt

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:35 PM

6. ARGGGHHHH!!!! Remember Susan Smith?

She made it up, too, fingering some mysterious black carjacker - who didn't exist. Miserable woman. And everybody jumped at it while she cried her crocodile tears. And then that schmuck newt gingrich swooped in like some vulture over raw carrion and announced that this is what you get when you for Democrats.

I will never forget that.

I will never forget her. CONNIVING MURDERER.

I will never forget newt, either. CARD-CARRYING SCHMUCK!

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Response to calimary (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:22 PM

12. And remember this young woman?

who worked for the McCain campaign in Pittsburgh and claimed a 6'4" dark-skinned black male "Obama supporter" assaulted her and carved the "B" on the side of her face?



Problem was, the "B" was backwards confirming she did it to herself in the mirror.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:06 PM

16. Yes!

I am still thankful for the help she gave Obama's campaign. What a media circus. MSNBC kicked some ass with this story, remember it well.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 12:34 AM

59. Not much of a wound either. I'm more impressed by the shiner she gave herself.

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Response to calimary (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:02 PM

46. Susan Smith was a terribly messed up person for sure.

 

And Newt Gingrich taking advantage of this is just as bad, in my opinion. What a fucking schmuck, indeed.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:23 PM

47. He's nothing but a human-sized opportunistic infection.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:21 PM

19. racism in this culture

 

is deeply ingrained in all generations present at this time in american history. It will not go away. It can only be fought one case at a time, tooth and nail. Bigotry, ignorance and stupidity has been growing in this country last 6 years. Hmmmm, I wonder why???? Brown skin often translates to immediate threat. The native-american is a threat because the descendants of the perpetrators of the genocide of the many nations of native-americans, just like the descendents of slave owners has been holding on to their hate, for generations, and are fearful that somehow a balancing of the scales is coming up on their evil. That fear makes them get uglier and uglier. Every time racism and bigotry rears it's ugly head, I chop it off, metaphorically of course. Equality is not that complex a matter. Just takes tolerance and intelligence. Something still in short supply, I guess.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:56 PM

45. This is indeed a major problem.

 

And there is a very urgent need to combat police corruption, including, and even especially, that that involves racism, regardless of whether it's openly spewed or not.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #45)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 12:37 AM

61. But way too many people are just peachy keen with this sort of stuff.

To them, so long as the cops are keeping the blacks in line via violence or the threat of same, all's right with the world.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:07 PM

3. Her speaking out is sign of change.

...And the worst part is we’ve become numb to these statistics. We're not surprised by them. We take them as the norm. We just assume this is an inevitable part of American life, instead of the outrage that it is. (Applause.)

That's how we think about it. It's like a cultural backdrop for us -- in movies and television. We just assume, of course, it's going to be like that. But these statistics should break our hearts. And they should compel us to act.


REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
ON “MY BROTHER’S KEEPER” INITIATIVE


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025027607#post14

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Response to freshwest (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:19 AM

65. I agree, and I'm sure that her parents & her community are proud of her, too. nt

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #65)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:50 AM

69. She sees the humanity and the truth... You bet they are proud. I would be too if she was my child.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:09 PM

4. Can you put up a link please?

 

I'd like to read more about this story.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:56 PM

38. Thank you!

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:52 PM

7. Four-year-old white kid's word carries more weight than a black adult's.

Aw, cute.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:29 PM

20. Good observation. nt

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Response to Iggo (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:49 PM

37. It should in this case

He was named by the baby sitter as the person who robbed the house. The vast majority of people who rob houses would also lie to the police about robbing houses. The four year old on the other hand, had no motive at all to lie for him.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:53 PM

8. People forget that four year olds can not only talk

but that they're often keen observers of everything around them. The combination often embarrasses the hell out of their parents.

Once in a while, it also cracks a case.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:59 PM

9. It reminds me of this 1984 story...

Mistaken Identity

By Mary A. Fischer, People Magazine, February 13, 1984

The Harlem Globetrotters are amiable men, beloved the world round for their on-court antics and their wizardry with a basketball performed to the whistled strains of Sweet Georgia Brown. But even the 'Trotters renowned amiability has limits, and that's why three of them have taken steps toward filing a multimillion-dollar civil rights suit against the city of Santa Barbara, Calif. and its police force.

While in town for an exhibition game last December, team members Ovie Dotson, 26, Lou Dunbar, 30, and Jimmy Blacklock, 35, telephoned for a cab after shopping in the Santa Barbara business district. A few minutes after getting into the taxi, the trio suddenly found themselves surrounded by nearly a dozen armed cops, who pulled over the vehicle and forced them onto the sidewalk to lie face down and spread-eagled while their hands were cuffed behind their backs. The ordeal lasted almost 30 minutes. That's how long it took jewelry-store owner George Brooks to arrive and tell police that these were not the men who had pointed guns at him about an hour earlier and relieved him of $400,000 in merchandise.

Initially terrified ("I freaked out," says Dotson), the players became angry when they learned that Brooks had described the robbers to the Santa Barbara police as black and of average height—one stocky, one with a beard, one with an Afro. The thieves were wearing jumpsuits, two red and one blue, and white tennis shoes. While Dunbar does in fact sport a neat Vandyke, one of the three athletes was wearing a sweat suit, another sweatpants and the third jeans, and none has particularly long hair. "I can see how there might be confusion over the tennis shoes," adds attorney Edward Bell, who is charging unfair treatment because of color in the suit for the ball players. "But the Globetrotters [the three average over 6'5"] wouldn't be average height in anyone's book."

In short, the three Court Jesters are seeing red because, they say, the city of Santa Barbara could see only black. "They wouldn't have done this," says Blacklock, who, like the others, earns more than $100,000 a year, "if we'd been someone like Jerry Lewis."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20087046,00.html


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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:04 PM

10. That story is so awful it's hard to pick out a worst part of it.

At least an honorable mention has to go to the 17 year old telling the cops that she'd never seen the guy, which means even she didn't say it was actually the neighbor, and would kind of imply that it wasn't, but the cops interrogated him for 5 hours anyway for being a black dude in the vicinity of a crime.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:16 PM

11. The sad part is

that the babysitter was 17. NOT 47 or 57 or 67 or someone of an age to have been drenched for decades in the vicious stereotypes about AAs.... And so yet another generation has been infected with and emboldened by the power of racism. I.e., a 17 year old white girl had the POWER to negatively impact the life of an innocent black man.

If the situation had been reversed, would those cops have believed the black man if he had witnessed what happened and reported that 2 unknown white suspects had burst into his neighbor's house and took off with some items? Of course not because "they don't fit 'the description'".

Fortunately he wasn't put away for good and hopefully the little girl will not succumb to the intoxicating power of racism when she gets older.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:27 PM

13. Here is a link to the video:

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:51 PM

14. damn right he fit the description

 

he was black wasn't he? Thank god for the truth from the mouths of children. He's lucky, he probably already would be in one of those for profit prisons working his ass off for the next 20 years. White privilege exemplified. What a country.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:56 PM

15. Would have recced because of the story.....

 

were it not for the commentary, including the frankly dumb "Welcome to White Privilege, everybody!" comment at the end.

And, by the way. a 4 year old having systematic power? That's B.S., MrScorpio. You should know better.

Yeah, I hate to seem harsh, but we can tell truth without engaging in extremist B.S., folks. No 4 year old in the world could possibly have any power of any kind over anybody, even if they happen to be "white".

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:13 PM

17. You know, one of the best things about White Privilege...

Is the fact that it allows some of the very people who have it to think that they have a very good excuse to deny that it even exists.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:17 PM

18. How about those who used to believe in it?

 

I know I did at one point, a good while before I joined this site. How do you explain that away, MrScorpio?

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:33 PM

21. You've been the way you are

 

since birth and you know you still have privileges denied other because of race. Everyone has your number, you need to check yourself, no one else. No one is fooled by your BS.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:51 PM

23. How can I know that I have something, that I don't believe even exists?

 

That really makes no sense, TBH. It's kinda like a CTer telling some other guy that they know that the government has been hiding grey aliens in New Mexico or Nevada somewhere, when that other guy doesn't even believe in the Sasquatch, let alone grey aliens....ya know?

No one is fooled by your BS.


It's not B.S. at all. I really did at one point. TBH, I wasn't really all that vocal about it back then as some others might have been.....I really just took it for granted and assumed that it was just another obvious thing, and not at all controversial(even if, admittedly, I didn't take it quite as far as others did).







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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:04 PM

26. right

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:36 PM

22. The second part of my sentence is something that applies to all forms of privilege

No matter what it is; Gender, sexual preference, even class.

I'm sure that you've seen that too during your time on this planet, I'm merely saying that white privilege in America is no different.

And frankly, why you've changed your mind on the subject is something that you'd need to explain for yourself. I don't know why you've changed.

But whatever it is, it's not like that anyone is expecting you to apologize for having it. The systems and institutions of this country have all put privilege outside of your own ability to control its very existence. Same as it does for me. By the way, it's not like I'm expecting white people to feel guilty about it. White guilt certainly doesn't do me any good and won't do any good for white people either.

However, it's there, whether one likes it or not. But it's only up to the individual to acknowledge its existence… I merely consider the ability of those who will or won't acknowledge it a featured aspect of their own character.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:54 PM

24. Well, alright, you've made your views pretty clear, I think.

 

But you still need to explain how you think a 4 year old could possible have any kind of power over anyone, even metaphorically, let alone in any tangible sense.....you see, this kind of thing is part of the reason why I started being actively opposed to "white privilege" theory instead of just disagreeing with it.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:08 PM

28. you're kidding

 

Last edited Sun Jun 29, 2014, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

you got to be. No one could be that..........

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:39 PM

34. I'm not joking at all. Not one bit. nt

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:17 PM

30. Think it through ...

 

I'm sure you can figure it out!

Here, let me give you a thought point ...

Did you know that the single most frequent reason for the lynching of a Black man was he had offended/assaulted a white woman? And that offense/assault was un-witnessed and based solely on the word of the white woman, or even the husband/boyfriend of the white woman.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:21 PM

31. Because after five hours of questioning and no proof of his guilt, police denied him his innocence

While he was hand cuffed and after they arrested him at gun point. Snipers were even mentioned. The police were prepared to use deadly force on an innocent person.

No matter what he said during his questioning by the police, and merely based on a casual and thoroughly stereotypical accusation of some 17YO white girl, he was denied his innocence by the police. To what extent was the police and the institutional system prepared to deny a black man his own innocence?

Arrest and trial, perhaps, all on the word of the white babysitter?

Obviously, the extent was to the level of the word of a 4YO little white girl, because seconds after her word, only THEN that a grown black man's innocence, against stereotypes and lies, became all too apparent to the police.

That is privilege. Because no matter who you are, even if you're a child; your own word has more sway than that of an innocent grown man with no evidence against him except the lies of another white person.



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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:46 PM

35. Well, I do know that structual racism is still a problem in this society.

 

That much cannot be denied. But how in the ever loving fuck does this add up to extra "privileges" on the part of white people? Even if this was all meant metaphorically, as was the original intent some decades ago(though you seem to have quite clearly adopted the literalist position), it still wouldn't add up.

And think about this: if not having to deal with as many stereotypes, or cops harassing you more, etc., is a so-called "privilege", then don't you realize that it sounds like, at least to some, that white people should have to put up with the same shit that blacks or Latinos, etc. do? Yet another reason why I no longer agree with "white privilege" theory, even if the original metaphorical intrepretation may still have some intellectual merit.












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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 06:15 PM

39. I'm not saying that "extra privileges" apply here.

Because the institutional systems already work on the behalf of whites, above everyone else.

The problem that I'm hearing from you is that you're thinking that whites should be treated, by the system, as badly as minorities are. Isn't that kind of ridiculous? Where have I said that?

What's wrong with the system treating everyone equally fair? But believe it or nor an unfair system of privilege is actually bad for everyone. White privilege holds back white people too, because it rewards white incompetence over non-white competence. I wonder why a lot of people in this country are thinking that people like Palin, McCain or Romney would make a better president than Barack Obama. The same system fuels racist Right Wing obstruction.

It holds us all back as a society. How else would you explain the regressive nature of America?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 06:47 PM

40. I hate to say this, but it seems that you definitely missed the point I was making.

 

Before I address the main point, let's just say that this, "I'm not saying that "extra privileges" apply here." and this,
Because the institutional systems already work on the behalf of whites, above everyone else." definitely contradict each other. Just so we're clear on that.

The problem that I'm hearing from you is that you're thinking that whites should be treated, by the system, as badly as minorities are. Isn't that kind of ridiculous? Where have I said that?


Well, as I was saying, it's not that you yourself necessarily said that, but what I was trying to tell you is, that is indeed what many people think when they hear

What's wrong with the system treating everyone equally fair?


There isn't. Are you saying you think I implied otherwise? Because I know for a fact that I did not.

But believe it or nor an unfair system of privilege is actually bad for everyone. White privilege holds back white people too, because it rewards white incompetence over non-white competence


Yes, TPTB are indeed holding us all back. But calling this tactic "white privilege" hasn't helped us do fucking SHIT to actually educate the public about these (very real) problems. Instead, we get to sit back and watch as RWNJs like Matt Drudge or the Limbaugh Report take this shit and run with it, and make it look like that we're(liberals, progressives, social justice advocates, etc.) all out to get white people, etc. just because of a few idiots on our side who just happen to be extremists. And they did this in the Sixties, too, especially with the anti-Vietnam/pro-peace movement, trying to paint *them* as a much of un-American, crypto-Communist, etc. heathens and lowlifes hell bent on destroying America so the Russians could take over and install a global Communist dictatorship, etc.; and they used the few rare examples like the Weather Underground or some of the Yippies, to help spread their disinfo.

I wonder why a lot of people in this country are thinking that people like Palin, McCain or Romney would make a better president than Barack Obama. The same system fuels racist Right Wing obstruction.

It holds us all back as a society. How else would you explain the regressive nature of America?


Yes, but let's call that what it plainly is: Racism. Cultural Chauvinism. And xenophobia. And not this imaginary "privilege", when damn near 40% of all the people on food stamps are poor whites, and when white people have been just as much hurt by certain policies(not so much in a direct way, of course, that much is true), as People of Color in this country(yes, even stuff like the Poll Tax of the pre-Civil Rights era), etc. If this really was a case of "privilege", this wouldn't be such a problem. And yet, white people, too, have been afflicted. In short, TPTB only really cared about white people as a whole, as much as they could manipulate them, and perhaps reward their most sycophantic worshippers with grudging face-level approval.

Perhaps I may have been a little hard on you, and I should perhaps apologize for going too far. With that said, though, it's honestly getting pretty damn frustrating trying to set the record straight.























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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:16 PM

41. I'm just wondering, who are you having this conversation with, me or these amorphous other people?

If a system of white racism, built and maintained by whites and working for the behalf of all whites (at the expense of anyone who isn't white), not only emphatically but implicitly as well... What else would you call the very THING that it confers upon its beneficiaries? That's why "white privilege" is an acceptable title for it.

When the word of two white children have more sway, whether they're telling either lies based on blatant stereotypes or the truth, over that of an innocent grown black man to the police… Who's the actual beneficiary of privilege here?

White privilege impelled the police to act accordingly in an accusatory way against the neighbor, based solely of the word of 17YO white babysitter, AND it made the word of a 4YO little white girl more actionable than that of a black man's, who was handcuffed while declaring his own innocence under questioning. There was no proof against him other than the word of the babysitter, but that didn't matter, did it?


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:43 PM

43. Here's the problem.....not everybody benefits. Things *never have* worked that way, in fact.

 

To be fair, I will grant you that there are some individuals who do reap actual benefits from time to time; for example, a Republican politician who exploits Teabagger fear and loathing to gain votes, can be said to actually benefit, even if perhaps this Gopper isn't a racist himself. But to say that all white people automatically benefit from racism, is just plain wrong and inaccurate. Even if the intentions behind such beliefs may be noble.

Who's the actual beneficiary of privilege here?


But there is no privilege that can be benefitted from, not in the collective sense. Because, truthfully, no one else in the community would benefit if a criminal got away simply because an innocent person was misidentified. Situations like that in particular, are where this whole narrative of collective privilege simply falls apart under even basic scrutiny.

There was no proof against him other than the word of the babysitter, but that didn't matter, did it?


Okay, but it doesn't change the fact that there's still no such thing as literal collective "privilege" of all white people. because, to be truthful, such has never been the reality in this country, anyway, including in this modern era(let alone in decades past, when even the palest Irishman could be sometimes be mistreated simply because he wasn't of the "correct" ethnicity/nationality/what have you.).

In fact, more than anything, racism was, and still is, used as a tool to divide and conquer, and yes, even targeted towards "white" people at times(mainly, TPTB setting conservative WASPs against Irishmen, Italians, Germans, Poles, Frenchmen, what have you). Hell, that even goes back to the era of Bacon's Rebellion, a full three quarters of a century before America was even thought of.

Perhaps the one country that I can think of where collective "white privilege" might very possibly have come close to being a truly tangible reality, would probably be pre-Mandela South Africa, with Apartheid in force until the early 1990s. But that'd be about it, unless Rhodesia under Ian Smith counts as well.




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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:35 PM

49. I hope that you don't mind this, but I have to remind you that we're living in modern day America...

And in modern day America, the classification of whiteness is less tied to ancestral national origin, than it is to skin color. This, of course, makes whiteness more generalized than in the past, doesn't it? So pointing out how the panoply of white ethnic groups were treated aside from WASPS in the past, that really has no relationship to with what we're dealing with today, right?

The lack of distinctions and even blurred distinctions are passed on to all people with white skin today. Really, in what way would being a white person in this country confer a MORE favored status if they were, in fact, black? Where and what are the advantages to being black in America over any white person, can you tell me that?

Now, let me ask you this: When the black neighbor was sitting there handcuffed, trying to convince the police that he was innocent, what do you think was going on in that conversation for five whole hours? It's not that hard to figure out, right? Basically, they ORDERED him to confess to robbing the neighbor and they ORDERED him to tell them where he stashed the stolen goods AND they ORDERED him to give up his accomplices. The whole time, of course, he told them that he was innocent of all of that stuff, and for five hours they told him that they didn't believe them. And you know why? They KNEW that he was lying solely on the word of a 17YO white girl and nothing more.

Now, you have to remember who the police are. They are institutional representatives… They are the authority and they didn't believe him.

Even after those five hours of questioning an innocent man, they were still unconvinced that he was innocent when they went to talk to the 4YO white girl. And do you know how I know that the police were unconvinced of his innocence? Look at what the little girl said about the police:



The police told the girl that they had the person who robbed her house and that person was the black neighbor. The cops didn't simply ask the girl to describe the robbers, they TOLD her that they had the black robber. And she, in turn, told the police that they were dead wrong.

Now think about this. Both the neighbor AND the little girl had the truth on their side, right? But despite the truth, whose word did they take?

One white person, telling lies was considered to be telling the truth, even after an innocent black man had the truth on his side during a five hour interrogation, and only after the word of another white person, a 4YO no less, 30 seconds later did the police realize that the neighbor was telling the truth all the long and not before.

Do you see the problem here? Both the black neighbor and the white 4YO had the truth on their side, but to the authorities, only one of them were deemed credible.





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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:45 PM

50. You still haven't been able to disprove my point, TBH.

 



Even after those five hours of questioning an innocent man, they were still unconvinced that he was innocent when they went to talk to the 4YO white girl. And do you know how I know that the police were unconvinced of his innocence? Look at what the little girl said about the police:



The police told the girl that they had the person who robbed her house and that person was the black neighbor. The cops didn't simply ask the girl to describe the robbers, they TOLD her that they had the black robber. And she, in turn, told the police that they were dead wrong.

Now think about this. Both the neighbor AND the little girl had the truth on their side, right? But despite the truth, whose word did they take?

One white person, telling lies was considered to be telling the truth, even after an innocent black man had the truth on his side during a five hour interrogation, and only after the word of another white person, a 4YO no less, 30 seconds later did the police realize that the neighbor was telling the truth all the long and not before.

Do you see the problem here? Both the black neighbor and the white 4YO had the truth on their side, but to the authorities, only one of them were deemed credible.


I see the problem(speaking in a general sense, though), yes. But it sure as darn hell isn't some sort of mythical literal "privilege" that I somehow "benefit" from. Discrimination against People of Color does NOT collective privilege of "whites" make. This isn't that hard for anyone who's willing to use enough critical thinking skills, regardless of their ethnic origin.


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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #50)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:51 PM

51. Well can you address the first part of that post?

Can you tell me in what way does being black creates a greater degree of privilege over white people in America?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

55. It doesn't. And far as I recall, I don't recall implying otherwise, TBH. nt

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #55)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 12:22 AM

58. Then, what's the point of your entire argument then?

You're telling me that white privilege doesn't exist. OK? But on the other hand, you have stipulated to the existence of white racism, right? But doesn't white racism manifest itself through a process of selective privilege?

Now do you remember how this conversation we're having started?

And, by the way. a 4 year old having systematic power? That's B.S., MrScorpio. You should know better.

Yeah, I hate to seem harsh, but we can tell truth without engaging in extremist B.S., folks. No 4 year old in the world could possibly have any power of any kind over anybody, even if they happen to be "white".


And remember, I mentioned that the best thing about about white privilege is the fact that it allows some of the people who benefit from it an excuse to deny that it even exists, right? But there's another part to that statement that I intentionally left unmentioned and I had hoped that you'd figure it out for yourself already.

And that is, people have privilege and not know that actually they have it. I never said that the little girl knew that she had white privilege and systematic power. She doesn't have to know. The only thing that she knew was to tell the truth, even to the police. She knew that the police didn't tell her the truth and she told them what the truth was instead. (Hence an aspect of power inherent in little 4YO girls, but that's beside the point).

The black neighbor knew the truth, he told the police the truth and they didn't believe him.

But there was someone who both knew what the truth was and knew what privilege they had as a white person and used that privilege to stereotypically implicate an innocent black person of a crime. His actual innocence held no sway during that five hour interrogation. Remember I reminded you that the police are the institutional authority and they used that authority strictly at the behest of privileged white people, against the innocence of a black individual.

In case one case, they conferred that privilege to the liar who depended upon it, and in the other case, they automatically conferred it upon the little 4YO white girl who either didn't ask for it, or even expected it. Despite the little girl's knowledge or lack thereof of white privilege, it was still there and it was there because the authorities said it was there.

And THAT'S how a little 4YO white girl can exercise systematic power over those who are not white. Thank God that the little girl was white and that she told the truth. Because if the little girl was black, and even if she told the truth as well, do you think that the police would have given her the exact same deference?

Can you honestly answer that question?

And just to throw you a bone, I do admit that the vast majority of white people in this country may not know that they have white privilege or even know that it even exists. It's conferred upon them without either their knowledge or agreement. Which actually makes it a very effective tool in the process of systemic and institutional racism. It's like the air that people breath, where you benefit from it and not even have to think about it.

But if it were taken away, people would know right away. If you have knowledge of it, then it's easier to know how you benefit from it. This entire thread, both people, black and white have attempted to show you what's going on in this country. And yet, you resist admitting to what we all see and know.

I have to tell you that your continual denial says way more about you than the world we all live in. All you need to do is open your eyes and see.


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #58)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:08 AM

62. Once again......

 


And remember, I mentioned that the best thing about about white privilege is the fact that it allows some of the people who benefit from it an excuse to deny that it even exists, right? But there's another part to that statement that I intentionally left unmentioned and I had hoped that you'd figure it out for yourself already.

And that is, people have privilege and not know that actually they have it. I never said that the little girl knew that she had white privilege and systematic power. She doesn't have to know. The only thing that she knew was to tell the truth, even to the police. She knew that the police didn't tell her the truth and she told them what the truth was instead. (Hence an aspect of power inherent in little 4YO girls, but that's beside the point).


I wasn't originally referring to the girl when I asked that question to heaven05, though. They basically accused me of being deliberately dishonest(even if not totally directly). And I asked them how I could possibly know that I have something that I don't believe (anymore) is even real. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5167732




The black neighbor knew the truth, he told the police the truth and they didn't believe him.


True, though to be fair, he *was*, originally the main suspect in the case. In this case, it's still likely they still would have held him for a while, even if he'd been white(most cops generally don't give suspects an easy pass, regardless of their skin color). And, in that same regard.....

Because if the little girl was black, and even if she told the truth as well, do you think that the police would have given her the exact same deference?

Can you honestly answer that question?


To be honest, I think it would be likely, yes(after all, 4 year olds in general are viewed as innocent by most people and there's not that many people who'd change their minds just because the skin colors were switched. I know I wouldn't). Even if the suspect had been white as well, hypothetically speaking. And this isn't a denial of systemic discrimination, not at all.


And just to throw you a bone, I do admit that the vast majority of white people in this country may not know that they have white privilege or even know that it even exists. It's conferred upon them without either their knowledge or agreement. Which actually makes it a very effective tool in the process of systemic and institutional racism. It's like the air that people breath, where you benefit from it and not even have to think about it.


*Sigh*.


But if it were taken away, people would know right away.


Don't you see the contradiction in this, by the way? First you say that most white people don't know that their collective "privilege" even exists, in your view, yet they'd somehow figure it all out when it was suddenly taken away. Really? Are you really serious? Or just trolling?

Either way, I'm about done dealing with this. You never did prove your point about all "whites" having collective (literal, that is) privileges, by the way. Because frankly, it was never there in the first place. I have studied this nation's history, by the way, front to back, from the Revolution to today. It's practically my hobby horse. And every single thing I've ever learned about racism, whether from mainstream or alternative sources.....credible sources, that is.....is that it was never something that *ever* helped all white people. Hell, even many Southern segregationists were okay with publicly stating that, as they'd put it, Jim Crow was good for white people(and some actually believed their own bullshit, too). And yet, did all Southern whites reap these mystical benefits? They sure as fuck did not. Racism was actually used as a tool to bust unions, to stymie socio-political evolution, and even as a tool against progress in general(even including several attempts to sabotage the New Deal).....not just in the South, but everywhere else as well.

Never once did the whole of "white" people in this country ever reap collective benefits from racism or other prejudices of any kind. Not once. Ever. So why are we claiming otherwise? Because it flies in the face of all sorts of historical evidence, individual cases of actual beneficence notwithstanding. It's honestly sad, more than anything. No wonder why the left is still having trouble.....











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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #62)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:46 AM

68. Some questions; Do you know the difference between if and when? Because I can't tell from your reply

And the next question, are you even aware that non-white persons have always been classified as second class citizens in this country… Even before we became a United States?

Because I don't see anything in your reply that even says that. Sure… "Racism was a tool to keep the white working man down." At least that's an ethos.

But to what lengths are you willing to go to declare that white privilege never has existed or doesn't exist today? You were given one specific example, and yet, I hate to tell you this, but you're using your own white privilege to deny that it even exists.

This is like the third time that I pointed that out to you. OK?

I mean, yeah sure, you'll declare victory and shuffle off to Buffalo… What else what I expect? But take the time to READ what everyone else has been telling you in this thread. Dude, you are an outlier here, you vastly astute expert on American history. Except that it's a history that no one else here knows about.

Yeah, yeah, the SECRET HISTORY OF NON-EXISTANT RACE RELATIONS IN AMERICA. I got a feeling that if you ever wrote that book, I'd find it in the fiction bargain bin.

But I digress…

But hey, I know you aren't getting this through to you, but I would be remiss in not pointing that the very tenor of this conversation is directly hinged on the very salient notion about what benefits white privilege confers on those who have it, whether they know they have it, or want it, or neither. As I said before, the only thing that I can do about it is gauge the character of the individual when they are confronted with the knowledge of white privilege.

Some people get it, and some other people aren't those people.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #50)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:06 PM

52. You Should Not Be So Loose, Sir, In Saying Others Lack Critical Thinking Skills

Your line was this:

'Discrimination against People of Color does NOT collective privilege of "whites" make.'

A person exercising 'critical thinking skills' would proceed along some such line as this. You concede there is systematic discrimination against people of color, or in other words, that people of color are systematically disadvantaged. You then attempt to maintain that the systematic disadvantaging of one group does not result in any advantage for some other group. But clearly, if one group is subject to a disadvantage another group is not, the latter group enjoys some advantage over the former. Therefore, it is proper to speak of the latter group as being privileged over the former group, since they do enjoy an advantage over them.

The concept of 'white privilege' is not the idea that all whites enjoy good outcomes in life, any more than the concept of systematic racism is the idea that all people of color suffer bad outcomes in life. What it does mean is that, all else being equal, white people have somewhat better odds of a good outcome than colored people, in our society. A man whose point is six has a better chance of making it than a man whose point is three, and that is true even if he craps out on his first roll, and remains true even if the other fellow makes makes his point and collects despite the poorer odds.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #52)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:29 PM

56. Well, okay. Here's my thoughts.

 


The concept of 'white privilege' is not the idea that all whites enjoy good outcomes in life, any more than the concept of systematic racism is the idea that all people of color suffer bad outcomes in life. What it does mean is that, all else being equal, white people have somewhat better odds of a good outcome than colored people, in our society. A man whose point is six has a better chance of making it than a man whose point is three, and that is true even if he craps out on his first roll, and remains true even if the other fellow makes makes his point and collects despite the poorer odds.


Well, I do understand that was the original intent of the idea behind "white privilege", i.e., an honest attempt to try to describe these realities, particularly from the view of the disadvantaged. Unfortunately, in more recent years, it has been morphed by some and defined by said group as literal "privilege". Which is a problem because it led to the exact same kind of thinking that I mentioned here.

And even the original version, sadly, failed to fully account for other variables, including, and perhaps especially, class. Frankly, there is really no denying that a well-off Person of Color from say, Beverly Hills or Manhattan, is going to be viewed by many Americans(not all, though), even by some(same here, too) in positions of power(!) in a rather significantly better light than a poor or lower-middle-class white guy who just got plucked out of a trailer park in Texas or some run-down suburb in Ohio or Indiana. And this guy, and let's assume that he's a honest & likable guy who donates to charity, etc. would, in all likelihood, even still be viewed in a better light by many than a white guy of equal wealth who was caught in some sort of scandal or was a total asshole, etc.

In all honesty, I think white privilege's time has pretty much passed on by. Why not try a new terminology? Something really straightforward. "Systemic discrimination" might do the trick, I think. Anyway, just something to think about, really.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 12:34 AM

60. Riiight!

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:16 AM

63. Apples To Oranges, Sir

Your comparison ought to be within class, rather than across it.

It does nothing to argue against the concept of white privilege to observe that, say, a well-to-do person of color may be more likely to get a a loan to start a business than would a poor white man in a trailer park. The question is, is a well-to-do person of color as likely to get that loan as a well-to-do white person, and will it be on as favorable terms? Similarly, if you have two poor persons with little education, one of color and one not, which is more likely to be hired for a job handling some money or responsibility? There is abundant evidence that a well-to-do person of color will experience treatment at the hands of police very different from that police accord a well-to-do white person. At any station in life, a white person has better odds of a good outcome than does a person of color in the same station. A claim to the contrary cannot be taken seriously.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

53. MrScorpio, I am in awe of your patience.

Some people will just never get it, no matter how it's explained to them.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:06 PM

27. excellent

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:48 PM

36. Um... "White Privilege" is very, very real.

Even if you, as a white guy, have never experienced the dark side.

My wife, a professional woman a thousand times more "law abiding" than I am, once got a DWB for a slightly rolling "California" stop at an empty four-way-stop intersection. Sadly, she was driving my deeply decrepit old car and not the "white soccer mom" minivan that is "her" car.

Those sorts of legal encounters have NEVER EVER happened to me, not anywhere in the U.S.A., and I've visited some very rough neighborhoods.

At my very, very lifetime worst in this white privilege world, which includes my trespassing (occasionally on U.S. government MILITARY property), insanely speeding 120 mph on an empty highways, returning to the U.S.A. without any documentation whatsoever, and losing my clothes on a beach while skinny dipping at two o'clock in the morning, never have I been significantly inconvenienced or harassed by the "authorities."

Maybe I'm just a nice sweet guy who can recite his California driver's license number from memory and spin a great story, but somehow I doubt that's the case.

Mostly I'm just a big blond blue eyed Captain America sort.

One of my grandfathers had a Captain America gig during World War II. He was the handsome Army Air Force officer with a big black official car and driver carrying the "Get out of Jail Free" card for troublesome misfits deemed essential to the war effort.

Homosexual, Jewish, Marxist, any color or faith, it didn't matter to him. Let's win this war.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:29 PM

42. Would have alerted because of your reply...

...were it not for the history of such breathtakingly brazen intellectual dishonesty -- outright, contrived denialism -- being tolerated in discussions of white privilege on DU. Particularly, it seems, when the topic is raised by a person of color.

I hate to seem harsh, but your commentary on this issue has all but obliterated the line between "frankly dumb," to quote your phrase, and playing dumb.

And couching it all in careful insults aimed at the OP? That only makes the artlessness of the performance more obvious, not less. Very rarely is patronizing dismissal mistaken for erudition.

TBH, the very notion of truthfulness is tarnished when you claim to be the arbiter of truth.

Most folks know B.S. when they see it. Even if we happen to be white.

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Response to Zenlitened (Reply #42)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:53 PM

44. Well, I'm afraid you're wrong.

 


...were it not for the history of such breathtakingly brazen intellectual dishonesty -- outright, contrived denialism -- being tolerated in discussions of white privilege on DU. Particularly, it seems, when the topic is raised by a person of color.


Frankly, I couldn't have cared less what his ethnicity was. And if you knew anything about me, you'd know that I'm no bigot.


I hate to seem harsh, but your commentary on this issue has all but obliterated the line between "frankly dumb," to quote your phrase, and playing dumb.


Playing dumb about what? I've been pretty honest about what I believe.

And couching it all in careful insults aimed at the OP?


I'll admit I kinda overreacted a bit on that first reply, but that was out of frustration, and not malice. I even apologized later on(last line):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5168151

That only makes the artlessness of the performance more obvious, not less. Very rarely is patronizing dismissal mistaken for erudition.


There was no performance to begin with, though, and that was the problem. What you saw from me was a genuine rebuttal. You may not agree with what I've written, and that's fine.



TBH, the very notion of truthfulness is tarnished when you claim to be the arbiter of truth.


You sure about that? Pardon me, but I don't recall ever (intentionally) implying that I knew absolutely everything there is to know. To be honest, I don't think I really do.

Most folks know B.S. when they see it. Even if we happen to be white.


Well, I'm afraid that you missed the ball on this one.....no offense.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

54. I marvel.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:42 PM

57. Hi AvgJoe90

Are you besties with Clarice, by any chance?

As a white person, I am begging you to, what we call in refined circles, STFU about your misrepresentations of issues.

I cringe when I see you have participated on a thread. The only reason I haven't put you on ignore is that I feel badly for those who try to talk sensibly to you about this issue.

The remark you make here about a 4 year old is probably one of the most ignorant, stupid, worthless remarks I have ever seen on this site related to any topic.

It's so breathtakingly obnoxious, as well, I wondered, earlier, if you might have an autism spectrum disorder because your inability to comprehend some very basic issues about human interaction led me to that question, since my son, too, can display real cluelessness about others, but, unlike you, when others talk to him about this, he doesn't keep it up, while you do.

I and others have asked you not to post about white privilege here because you are an embarrassment to all white people. Really. You make white people look bad by your posts on this site. I mean that sincerely.

Your problem is that you did not come out of a wealthy background. Therefore, white privilege, to you, means wealth. This, again, is a very self-centered view of the topic, as are all your posts on this issue when people have asked you, repeatedly, to stop TROLLING African Americans on this site.

Jury - if this post gets hidden - you don't know anything about this person's history here. He is trolling. If even my autistic son can "get it" I find it hard to believe someone who claims they're just talking and insulting African Americans is anything other than a troll.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #57)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:18 AM

64. I'm not terribly familiar with her, no.

 

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but I honestly don't know where you could have possibly got the impression that ethnicity was any sort of factor in my disagreements.....as some have noticed, I've had some debates with "white" folks as well(and I've had at least a couple of People of Color actually stand with me, too, from time to time.). And frankly, if I was a bigot or otherwise seriously prejudiced, do you think I'd even want to be on here anyway? TBH, I'd almost certainly have left or been kicked out a long time ago.

So, to be honest, I really would appreciate an apology. Because that accusation(of me supposedly doing this just to pick on and "troll" African-Americans, that is) was indeed hurtful, even if you didn't mean it that way(though to be fair, it seems to me that you're just more frustrated than anything.).

In any case, I'm done with this thread, pretty much. And, TBH, if the OP hadn't inserted that flamebait in the end, I wouldn't have had a problem with this post at all.



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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #64)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 02:11 AM

71. You know, Joe, I was looking for a white privilege bingo card to post here… It's true.

But out of all the ones I saw, all your replies in this thread could comprise of the best one ever.

Posting one here, out of those that I've found on the net, can't do your posts any justice.

Thanks for teaching us all a lesson.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #71)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 02:26 AM

72. I thought this one was pretty good

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #64)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 06:58 AM

74. "at least a couple of People of Color actually stand with me, too"

If Martin Luther King, Roy Wilkins or any of these compromising Negros who say exactly what the white man wants to hear is interviewed anywhere in the country you don't get anybody to offset what they say. But whenever a black man stands up and says something that white people don't like then the first thing that man does is run around to try and find somebody to say something to offset what has just been said. This is natural but it is done.

-Malcolm X

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Response to RainDog (Reply #57)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:56 AM

70. I bow in your general direction nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #70)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 02:53 AM

73. I bow in your general direction as well

I can't even read the reply. I just have to put him on ignore if he's allowed to continue to do this - troll on climate change, troll African Americans.. who knows what else. Clarice, I saw today, was posting happy talk to offset the fact that she called Number 23 neurotic for finding Clarice's "lighten up, Francis" post disgusting in relation to Trayvon.

It's sad that trolls can post here with impunity now, once they figure out how to manipulate.

So, kudos for your patience.

This is what I was thinking as I typed...

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Response to RainDog (Reply #57)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 11:06 AM

76. +1

From this southern white person who gets it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:55 PM

25. The Jesse Anderson defense.

 

Didn't work for Jesse either.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Anderson

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Response to Scuba (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:12 PM

29. yep

 

and what neighborhood(s) did the police terrorize looking for those 'black murderers', I wonder. I really do wonder.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:23 PM

32. imagine if the little girl was 2 years old or some other younger age

where she would not have developed some of the communication abilities she has now.

maybe the black guy has some pics posing in certain ways. things like that would have been used to claim he was guilty .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:27 PM

33. Excellent points, all nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:35 PM

48. I was hoping to find out more about this story.. I just saw a tweet the other day

with her pic and "4 year old exposes babysitter" or something and I didn't know what it was about.

Wow! Thanks MrScorpio..

Babysitter’s fake tot kidnapping, theft scheme exposed by child, 4

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/babysitter-fake-tot-kidnapping-theft-scheme-exposed-child-4-article-1.1839542

The Washington state babysitter allegedly let her boyfriend and an accomplice in to steal, then blamed the neighbor — but Abby, 4, told police the truth.

"Kids are smart. Insanely observant. And more capable of seeing through our adult BS than most adults. The problem is that we don't give them enough credit for their honesty or their ability to see things plainly -- which came in handy when the family of one 4-year-old in Washington was robbed while the little girl was being cared for by her babysitter."

http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/174001/4yearold_busts_babysitters_scheme_to

I don't know why it says "fake tot kidnapping" though.. she wasn't kidnapped.

It sucks that the babysitter said "two African American men did it" and her neighbor was hauled into custody for 5 hours. They are in a world of trouble.

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Response to Cha (Reply #48)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:21 AM

66. That is definitely unfortunate, indeed(understatement).

 

That is one brave little girl. I seriously hope they file some charges against that babysitter for what she pulled.....and give little Abby a reward for doing the right thing.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #66)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 01:26 AM

67. A story that was faught with lies, theft, and wrongful interrogation.. that

ends with the truth coming out from a four year old! Unbelievable Joe!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 10:59 AM

75. Who made the initial investigation???

Talk about lazy half-assed, police work.

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