US Army wants a harder-hitting pistol

[underpants]

Chaaaaa-Ching!!! for some defense contractors.


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/07/03/army-wants-harder-hitting-pistol/

The U.S. Army is moving forward to replace the Cold War-era M9 9mm pistol with a more powerful handgun that also meets the needs of the other services.

As the lead agent for small arms, the Army will hold an industry day July 29 to talk to gun makers about the joint, Modular Handgun System or MHS.

The MHS would replace the Army's inventory of more than 200,000 outdated M9 pistols and several thousand M11 9mm pistols with one that has greater accuracy, lethality, reliability and durability, according to Daryl Easlick, a project officer with the Army's Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Georgia.

"It's a total system replacement -- new gun, new ammo, new holster, everything," Easlick said.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war. Albert Einstein,

[DetlefK]

2. All the Army now needs is a working inventory management... Oops.

[malthaussen]

3. "If you would have peace, then prepare for war" -- Vegetius.

Einstein was a physicist.

-- Mal

[tiny elvis]

33. vegetius was a veterinarian

Watson doubts its value, for Vegetius "was neither a historian nor a soldier: his work is a compilation carelessly constructed from material of all ages, a congeries of inconsistencies".

[Turbineguy]

4. 200,000 for the Army

20 million for the rest of us.

[GeorgeGist]

5. How 'bout we replace the outmoded brains ...

ruining this country.

[Hoyt]

6. Now all gun fanciers will want one or two of these more lethal weapons. Zimmerman's 9mm is obsolete.

[underpants]

10. "You have to shoot people a lot with a handgun."

May favorite line in the article

[Hoyt]

13. LOL. That's a classic. Of course, gun fanciers will use it to justify hi cap magazines.

[ileus]

31. The PF9 was obsolete 3 or 4 years ago when the good

quality 9mm single stacks made by good companies started hitting the market. I can highly recommend the M&P Shield in 9mm it's my EDC, wonderful little pistol easy to carry, accurate, reliable, and easy on the wallet. @ 350 or less you'll have money left over for that fishing kayak you've been wanting.

The M9 is way too large for good conceal carry...

[Hoyt]

32. Thanks for your recomnendation based upon your cache of lethal weapons. Mayve

Maybe one day, you'll grow up and think more about society than your need for boat loads of gunz.

[Tetris_Iguana]

7. I thought we were going to have laser weapons soon...

I guess those will show up with the practical flying cars.

[hobbit709]

8. They going back to the .45?

[Brother Buzz]

11. The M1911 had lethality, reliability and durability nailed

The accuracy, not so much

[bluedigger]

14. You just had to practice throwing it a lot to get accurate with it.

At least that's what they used to tell me.

[underpants]

15. I had a .45 when I was in

Qualifying with it was an experience. My particular pistol had to be aimed down and to the left to hit the target. We switched to 9's after the first Gulf War and firing it was a breeze.

[Brother Buzz]

16. Mine shot down and to the left until I rattled it, then....

it shot up and to the right. Proud 'Bolo' badge boy, here.

[underpants]

17. Hilarious

The first time I fired it the Sgt. told me "aim center mass and see where the dirt flies up" BLAM! .... No hit on the target, no dust ball from the dirt. Sgt., "okay it shoots high. Aim at the ground"

[Orsino]

9. So do all the gun nuts.

The officers and other troops who would carry pistols are not immune to our more-and-bigger-guns culture.

[hack89]

18. Except in a combat zone your life might actually depend on the lethality of your pistol

and 9mm is not particularly lethal - especially when you have to use Geneva Convention compliant ammunition.

[Orsino]

28. I wish I could believe that the decision was all about saving lives.

But then I'd have to wonder why the .45 was discontinued.

[Lurks Often]

29. Because they were worn out

They stopped producing the 1911 for the US military around 1945*. The existing inventory was re-built a couple of times, but by the mid 1980's they were no longer reliable. Combine that with NATO standardization on 9mm as the standard pistol caliber caused the US to select the Beretta. Almost 30 years later, the Beretta's are starting to wear out. Means the military is going to look at future pistol needs and re-evaluate what it needs.


*Production stopped for general issue. Some of the Special Operations units have ordered limited numbers of 1911's and/or rebuilt older ones themselves since 1945.

[MohRokTah]

12. There are still some special forces units armed with the M1911 .45 ACP

Most reliable handgun the army ever used. More reliable than the M9. It was in wide use in all armed forces from 1911 to 1985, a span of 74 years.

About the only thing it probably doesn't have that they are looking for is greater accuracy.

[blueridge3210]

19. So, how many civilian law enforcement agencies are there?

And which handguns do they use? Seems that the more sensible way to approach this is to conduct a survey of existing weapons in use and compile data regarding use and effectiveness. Several other choices besides 9mm exist; .357, .40, 10mm, .45. Rather than try to design a new weapon from the ground up, it seems it would be better to use existing technology.

[Abnredleg]

20. Police can use expanding bullets, while the military can't

The military has to use full metal jacketed rounds, which are less lethal than hollow points, so police usage may not directly applicable. Plus the operating environment is a lot harsher for military weapons so you could't even use reliability statistics.

[blueridge3210]

22. It would give a baseline from which to start.

Not saying any civilian LEO firearm would meet military needs, but it seems to be more cost effective than trying to design a "mil-spec" sidearm from the ground up. That route seems designed to create "cost overruns". Just my .02.

[Abnredleg]

27. It probably won't be a brand new design

Pistols just aren't that important a weapon so the military is not going to spend a lot of money on this project. It'll be an off the shelf design, perhaps with minor modifications. Most LEO pistols are also mil-spec so there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

[Brother Buzz]

21. The new handgun WILL be an off-the-shelf model

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20110828/NEWS/108280315/Pistols-shot-replacing-M9

[blueridge3210]

23. Okay.

Didn't get that from the OP and, admittedly, didn't click the link.

[Brother Buzz]

25. The drift of the OP is "The U.S. Army is moving forward" (finally)...

but it's been in the works for years

[jmowreader]

35. It's been done, at least in part

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-527041.html

AL = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
AK = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
AR = SIG P229 (.40S&W)
CA = S&W Model 4006TSW (.40S&W)
CO = S&W M&P40 (.40S&W)
CT = SIG P226 (.40S&W)
DE = SIG P229 (.357SIG)
FL = Glock 37Gen4 (.45GAP)
GA = Glock 37 (.45GAP)
ID = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
IL = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
IN = Glock 17 (9x19mm)
IA = S&W M&P40 (.40S&W)
KS = Glock 21 (.45ACP)
KY = Glock 35 (.40S&W)
LA = SIG P220 (.45ACP)
ME = H&K USP45 (.45ACP)
MD = Beretta PX4 (.40S&W)
MA = SIG P226 (.40S&W)
MI = SIG P226 (.40S&W)
MN = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
MS = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
MO = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
MT = SIG P229 (.357SIG)
NE = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
NV = SIG P229 (.40S&W)
NJ = SIG P228 (9x19mm)
NM = S&W M&P357 (.357SIG)
NY = Glock 37 (.45GAP)
NC = S&W M&P357 (.357SIG)
ND = S&W Model 4506 (.45ACP)
OH = SIG P226 (.40S&W)
OK = SIG P226 (.357SIG)
OR = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
PA = Glock 37 (.45GAP)
RI = SIG P226 (.357SIG)
SC = Glock 37 (.45GAP)
SD = SIG P229 (.40S&W)
TN = Glock 31 (.357SIG)
TX = SIG P226 (.357SIG)
UT = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
VT = SIG P229 (.40S&W)
VA = SIG P229 (.357SIG)
WA = S&W M&P40 (.40S&W)
WV = S&W Model 4566TSW (.45ACP)
WI = Glock 22 (.40S&W)
WY = Glock 22 (.40S&W)

Going only by state police departments, the choice would be the .40S&W.

The New York Police Department carries 9mm, LA gives the choice of 9mm, .40 and .45, Chicago uses the same three calibers (but in Chicago you buy all your own equipment)...

[sarisataka]

24. In a battle environment your best pistol

Is a rifle

[jmowreader]

34. If you're clearing rooms, the best rifle is a pistol

There's a reason every special operator in DoD has a pistol hanging off his load-bearing equipment: they come in handy on occasion.

And there's also a reason they won't go into a hot area with an M9 in their holster. SF guys despise the M9 because it's not reliable if it's not spotless. Their choice is the Browning Hi-Power; more snake-eaters have bought Hi-Powers with their own money than any other gun.

[NightWatcher]

26. Sig makes the m11 9mm model 228. They also make the 220 in 45acp

Why not just convert over time to the 220, which is nearly identical to the now standard 228?

There's your increased stopping power in a familiar package.

I guess this isn't as fun as building one from the ground up at an expense of billions.

[ileus]

30. Fine opportunity for the P227....

I wouldn't mind having a M9 for general plinking and family fun gun at the range.