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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:21 PM Jul 2014

Why you'll never hear this Feminist use the word "Mansplain"...

http://www.xojane.com/issues/why-you-ll-never-hear-me-use-term-mansplain

“Mansplaining” -- for which I will cease using scare quotes forthwith -- is an internet-born term for what happens when a dude comes into a conversation, usually online, usually happening between a group of women, and proceeds to commandeer the discussion to explain to said women things that they already know. The concept seems to have originated with Rebecca Solnit’s 2008 article in the Los Angeles Times, “Men who explain things to me,” in which she recounts an experience at a dinner party where a male guest repeatedly spoke over her to extol the virtues of a very important book on a particular subject, unaware, in spite of Solnit’s attempts to tell him otherwise, that it was a book of which she was the author.

While the early concept of “men who explain things” may have come from Rebecca Solnit, the precise origins of mansplain-as-portmanteau are a murky subject. I took to Twitter to crowdsource the first use and while we couldn’t quite arrive at a definitive moment, the term seems to have come into common use amongst internet feminists around 2010, with much of its momentum coming from this post on ScienceBlogs. By this point, the definition had been expanded a bit:

Mansplaining is when a dude tells you, a woman, how to do something you already know how to do, or how you are wrong about something you are actually right about, or miscellaneous and inaccurate “facts” about something you know a hell of a lot more about than he does.

Bonus points if he is explaining how you are wrong about something being sexist!


I hate the word “mansplain.” I’ve never liked it; I didn’t like it even when it was gaily burning through feminist conversations like a cleansing fire lighting up all the annoying crap guys say and do when they feel threatened by feminism, or by feminists. A guy has injected himself into your conversation to tell you why you’re all being unreasonable? MANSPLAINER! It was funny, and empowering, a self-aware scarlet M applied to anyone who failed to choose his words with care.

For one, it’s mad essentialist, and by this I mean it assumes a certain universal set of truths shared by all men. Men mansplain, because they are men, and this is an attribute of a masculine gender. Except there are lots of men who don’t mansplain, and who would rightly be a little irritated by the assumption that something in their chromosomes or genitalia or gender identity somehow operates to make them all susceptible to a particular shared behavior.

The truth is anyone, regardless of gender, can be guilty of this incredibly annoying, frustrating, and dismissive conduct. While it’s certainly powered by sexism, men are not its sole proprietors -- have you heard some of the arguments I’ve gotten from women on stuff relating to body image, about which I evidently know absolutely nothing of merit despite making it my primary field of work for well over a decade? -- and it’s no more acceptable if it’s coming from a non-man.
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Why you'll never hear this Feminist use the word "Mansplain"... (Original Post) Bonobo Jul 2014 OP
Thanks for mansplaining that to us.nt bravenak Jul 2014 #1
+1 sheshe2 Jul 2014 #5
The article was written by a woman. Was she "mansplaining"? nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #7
I hadn't read reply #1 before composing my other reply (#6), but that's a perfect example. Electric Monk Jul 2014 #12
Maybe?nt bravenak Jul 2014 #31
Maybe "lecturing in a condescending way"? nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #35
You're trying to erase the whole point: that this is a gendered behavior. nt LeftyMom Jul 2014 #44
Actually I am arguing against that fact. Bonobo Jul 2014 #49
It is a gendered behavior. Men do it to women all the damn time. Women don't do it to men or women, LeftyMom Jul 2014 #51
I think that is the bottom line. You think that and I disagree. Bonobo Jul 2014 #55
Sorry, but women do it all the time, too. liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #174
When a woman does it it is called being bossy. AngryAmish Jul 2014 #203
I'm not fully understanding can you explain it with a little more detail please! snooper2 Jul 2014 #211
Women mansplain to other women sometimes. bravenak Jul 2014 #46
If they do, why not choose a different word? Bonobo Jul 2014 #68
We like the word. It's fitting. bravenak Jul 2014 #71
I'll try not to be condescending. Is that okay? Bonobo Jul 2014 #73
The ACT is sexist. laundry_queen Jul 2014 #123
Boom. There it is. Truth. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #147
The hell they are. I've known liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #179
You are sooooo popular! JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #183
so you agree the concept exists, but the word is wrong. alp227 Jul 2014 #178
I've had the misfortunate of knowing plenty of women liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #177
EXACTLY. AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #96
You, uh, manPOSTED it! Union Scribe Jul 2014 #121
they always find the woman or the black person who will say it for them treestar Jul 2014 #209
LOL DURHAM D Jul 2014 #25
Two year old article.nt bravenak Jul 2014 #54
Is that all you got? AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #119
Huh? She's an active poster. I don't get it... cyberswede Jul 2014 #150
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #154
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #200
She was only "shown the door" as far as this thread goes, not all of DU, for having a post hidden.nt Electric Monk Jul 2014 #157
LOL - she's probably better off, since this is just a flamebait thread anyway. cyberswede Jul 2014 #158
+1 n/t JTFrog Jul 2014 #160
Thank you for that post. Warpy Jul 2014 #127
I'll stop saying it when men stop talking down to me about things I know more about than them. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #2
Gender has nothing to do with that behavior. Bonobo Jul 2014 #3
Thanks for telling me what it's like to be female. You're right, I have no idea how men talk to me. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #8
Ummm, written by a woman. Bonobo Jul 2014 #13
I'm responding to you. Which is a waste of my time. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #14
You must be getting something out of it. Bonobo Jul 2014 #16
So what do you get out of antagonizing female DUers? LeftyMom Jul 2014 #17
Are you antagonized because I posted a feminist saying she never uses the term "mansplaining"? Bonobo Jul 2014 #21
Your MO is to stir shit with women generally and feminists in particular. What's in that for you? LeftyMom Jul 2014 #26
You do sound antagonized. Bonobo Jul 2014 #33
Nope, but thanks for tone trolling. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #34
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #37
Your argument about how having a word for the way men talk down to women is unhelpful, LeftyMom Jul 2014 #48
I don't even really understand what you just said. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #52
Yeah, no kidding. nt LeftyMom Jul 2014 #53
... redqueen Jul 2014 #64
good to know that one is jury proof because we all know about this one ... Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #162
. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #182
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #57
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #58
Tone trolling is a particularly heinous micro aggression JVS Jul 2014 #83
Is it like leaving the toilet seat up? LuvLoogie Jul 2014 #125
"I didn't mean to antagonize anyone." cyberswede Jul 2014 #166
What do you get out of antagonizing liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #185
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #233
You don't know any women who do the same thing? Beartracks Jul 2014 #142
I know perfectly well what it's like to liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #184
he doesn't get it noiretextatique Jul 2014 #217
"Blondsplaining" sheshe2 Jul 2014 #9
Ummm, men are blondes too. Bonobo Jul 2014 #11
Here's a peppy little ditty.... LuvLoogie Jul 2014 #133
What utter nonsense. Since when are men portrayed as ditzy blondes in the media. R B Garr Jul 2014 #195
"Will in no way compare." ok. Here's Jeff Daniels in Dumb & Dumber, anyway. YMMV Electric Monk Jul 2014 #196
Google dumb blondes and see what comes up. R B Garr Jul 2014 #197
Uhm, some men can be dumb at times. Jamastiene Jul 2014 #239
+1 XemaSab Jul 2014 #36
I don't how many times men have lectured me about feminism without knowing the basic history bettyellen Jul 2014 #59
That's right. Anyone can mansplain. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #4
Many times I've seen it used on DU it as basically trying to invalidate some guys opinion Electric Monk Jul 2014 #6
"Shut up and listen to me lecture you about lecturing." Bonobo Jul 2014 #10
You're framing it as being told to "shut up simply because of...gender", alp227 Jul 2014 #180
See reply #1 of this very thread we are currently in for Exhibit A. nt Electric Monk Jul 2014 #190
Now i'm in a quandry Scootaloo Jul 2014 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #18
Yes, your quandary is due to the ridiculousness of the term. Bonobo Jul 2014 #20
If men are silenced and castrated by feminists IronLionZion Jul 2014 #111
The author makes a good point, but misses another leftstreet Jul 2014 #23
May I diffidently offer the tentative opinion Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #38
It's just another dumb internet invented fad word quinnox Jul 2014 #19
^^winner^^ Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #181
I don't agree with this article. LisaLynne Jul 2014 #22
Best post in the thread. redqueen Jul 2014 #41
+1 It's a term unique to a woman's experience leftstreet Jul 2014 #61
+1 BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #115
The term describes a specific social behavior laundry_queen Jul 2014 #137
As a fellow lady IT professional, I agree 100%. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #143
Great post! cyberswede Jul 2014 #151
Yes, thank you. I worked in IT for almost 2 decades. MadrasT Jul 2014 #204
+1. My friends used to call it Male Answer Syndrome... winter is coming Jul 2014 #207
Results Sissyk Jul 2014 #24
Wow, what an inappropriate alert. Bonobo Jul 2014 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #29
Wow, what an obvious and chickenshit alert. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #60
Not a good reason for alerting...I'm surprised it even got 3 hide votes. alp227 Jul 2014 #193
This post was alerted on... I was on the jury alittlelark Jul 2014 #28
Oh, thanks for putting your poor judgment out there for everyone to see. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #30
You say you are a female, but you sound like my alittlelark Jul 2014 #40
Wow... The jury system... Bonobo Jul 2014 #43
Sounds like you are mansplaining to the general audience alittlelark Jul 2014 #50
Where has Bonobo ever said he was female? JVS Jul 2014 #67
Assumption on my part I guess.... alittlelark Jul 2014 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #120
You have a 40% chance for jury and have this quote in your profile... alittlelark Jul 2014 #130
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #144
maybe next time go to the link source, and you would have seen this article was written by a woman.. quinnox Jul 2014 #32
A little bit ironic, wouldn't you say? nt Electric Monk Jul 2014 #39
I'd say so. But at least it is novel to see someone proudly proclaim they voted to hide a post, lol quinnox Jul 2014 #42
And based on a whole series of misunderstandings Bonobo Jul 2014 #47
Phyllis Schlafly is a woman too..... alittlelark Jul 2014 #45
I think an opening on my jury blacklist just opened up... quinnox Jul 2014 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #62
Heh, you just read my mind. quinnox Jul 2014 #66
I have a 100% chance for a jury - you have a 60% chance.... alittlelark Jul 2014 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #72
I know what I know...and I don't 'fling poo'. alittlelark Jul 2014 #95
No shit. This one earned it and wears it proudly. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #70
A blunt assessment, but one I tend to agree with quinnox Jul 2014 #84
Just....WOW.... As a JURY member I made a choice. alittlelark Jul 2014 #102
Ugly..... really..... alittlelark Jul 2014 #148
Pretty cool Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #163
I think they were saying they thought your vote to lock was "ugly", not you quinnox Jul 2014 #164
The point is that I am not ashamed to say who I am... alittlelark Jul 2014 #168
That's a good point JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #169
Um......wow. I'm sorry, but.....really? AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #112
The author is a self-hating woman - lots out there (Faux news etc.) alittlelark Jul 2014 #132
I didn't see any self-hate emanating of that article. AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #136
Maybe you're manreading. JVS Jul 2014 #152
Lulz, man. xD AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #199
If you are indeed an 'average joe' you would not recognize it. alittlelark Jul 2014 #155
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #165
see post 168.... alittlelark Jul 2014 #173
"Not trying to be insulting.... but it is what it is." Well, unfortunately, you kinda failed there. AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #198
I will alter my guess to be 'insecure'... alittlelark Jul 2014 #231
Love how you RACED to find a TWO YEAR OLD article to post about this. bravenak Jul 2014 #65
Just a little post on a little corner of the internet. Bonobo Jul 2014 #69
I said i LOVE how you RACED to post this TWO YEAR old article. bravenak Jul 2014 #75
You are adorable!!!! nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #76
LOL no shit, this thread delivers like Domino's! redqueen Jul 2014 #80
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #82
Oh, excellent. An opportunity to share this: redqueen Jul 2014 #97
So we now have a couple of great new terms that, in effect, turn normal but "bad" human behavior Bonobo Jul 2014 #105
I think gaslighting originally could be applied to either gender, though, IIRC. AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #116
Gaslight is an excellent movie, redqueen. Have you seen it? There are two versions. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #156
The Bergman version isn't the original? cyberswede Jul 2014 #170
me too! I just learned of the earlier version about a year ago. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #171
An interesting article, but it sounds a lot to me like hughee99 Jul 2014 #176
That second picture is awesome! JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #172
Do you enjoy throwing this old 'poo'? alittlelark Jul 2014 #77
Do I enjoy discussing different opinions and issues on subjects on a discussion board? Bonobo Jul 2014 #79
No, it was not... it was asking if you are actively trying to alittlelark Jul 2014 #85
LOL, no I am posting an opinion about sexism written by a feminist that I agree with. Bonobo Jul 2014 #87
uhhhhh, you are the one w/ the angry posts... review this thread. alittlelark Jul 2014 #104
You keep saying the author is a feminist. Warpy Jul 2014 #129
^^^^ This ^^^ alittlelark Jul 2014 #135
She says she is and I wouldn't presume to tell her she is not. Bonobo Jul 2014 #139
Those guys w/ white hoods aren't KKK...... alittlelark Jul 2014 #175
Sarah Palin says she's a feminist, too Warpy Jul 2014 #188
Exactly. n/t JTFrog Jul 2014 #194
So what? It's General Discussion, not Late Breaking News. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #74
Didn't you read the part where i said i LOVE this? bravenak Jul 2014 #78
"It's not about the nail!" Bonobo Jul 2014 #81
What a shame that you can no longer participate in this thread for having a post hidden 5-2. nt Electric Monk Jul 2014 #86
I don't think she deserved a hide for that. Bonobo Jul 2014 #88
Since that's what the OP was trolling for... JTFrog Jul 2014 #89
Ask yourself why people cannot discuss things on a discussion board... Bonobo Jul 2014 #90
Nothing you mansplain is going to lead to growth and learning around here. JTFrog Jul 2014 #94
Like I said, it was written by a Feminist. So it is not me "mansplaining" anything. Bonobo Jul 2014 #98
Dude. JTFrog Jul 2014 #100
Thanks! Bonobo Jul 2014 #101
Yea, you like to tell women how they should feel. JTFrog Jul 2014 #103
Abso-friggin-lutely. TDale313 Jul 2014 #189
^^^^^^^^ redqueen Jul 2014 #106
Look in the mirror...... alittlelark Jul 2014 #191
unintentional irony. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #220
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #118
How does one race to post something two years old? nt Union Scribe Jul 2014 #122
Better than organizing against Hobby Lobby. Gotta keep things in perspective, Bravenak! freshwest Jul 2014 #134
Love it! JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #186
Kudos on the PAC! freshwest Jul 2014 #192
He must not be getting enough bites over at Discussionist.nt sufrommich Jul 2014 #208
Summertime, and the livin' is easy, fish are jumpin' betsuni Jul 2014 #212
Well now that he's on vacation again.... JTFrog Jul 2014 #213
They bite back very hard over there. seaglass Jul 2014 #218
I willing to bet on 2-3 threads spawning from this. Inkfreak Jul 2014 #92
That's a damn safe bet. What kind of odds will you give me? Bonobo Jul 2014 #93
Well, it appears only one has spawned. Inkfreak Jul 2014 #205
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #108
Read my rebuttal thread to find out. (nt) Inkfreak Jul 2014 #113
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #114
lol, to quote another post in this thread, "Good Call" quinnox Jul 2014 #117
"Mainsplain" is an intellectual crutch LittleBlue Jul 2014 #99
Very well said. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #109
Notice the completely baseless accusations of self-hatred as well. AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #201
I thought you wrote "intellectual crotch." betsuni Jul 2014 #210
Thanks for posting this. Very good article.....even if it *is* just a tad dated. =) AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #107
Excellent article MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #124
I feel kind of the same way about the phrase "gender wars." Zenlitened Jul 2014 #126
I always called those guys blowhards. nt valerief Jul 2014 #128
Ok, I'll put some money on it BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #131
It is self fulfilling. When women do it, it isn't mansplaining and Bonobo Jul 2014 #138
Prove me wrong BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #161
What about the opposite of that The Straight Story Jul 2014 #140
I generally don't think my opinion equals a lifetime of experience BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #167
Good idea yewberry Jul 2014 #141
Before mansplaining became popular gort Jul 2014 #145
and it's quite futting the actor who played Cliff Clavin is a right wing asshole. alp227 Jul 2014 #187
Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #146
As a guy who works with people who constantly hughee99 Jul 2014 #149
When you observe that man explaining more to women and less to guys, that's how. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #206
To each there own, though I agree with some points expressed lets just say I personally feel AuntPatsy Jul 2014 #153
Good For her. She is a real feminist, by golly. wow. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #159
Not All Mansplainers? betsuni Jul 2014 #202
Well this thread did get him a well deserved time out. JTFrog Jul 2014 #214
The vex is on the other foot! betsuni Jul 2014 #215
Well done! n/t JTFrog Jul 2014 #216
lol redqueen Jul 2014 #222
In which the OP predictably gets locked out of his own thread. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #219
I think it's a terrific term. I'll continue to use it, where applicable. (nt) Paladin Jul 2014 #221
My other favorite is "neckbeard" Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #223
That's what passes as a neckbeard these days? WatermelonRat Jul 2014 #224
Is that for real? Disgusting magazine! freshwest Jul 2014 #225
Clearly a faked "magazine cover" photoshop. Not real. nt Electric Monk Jul 2014 #226
Only slightly relieved to hear that... Not like those memes haven't been around elsewhere... TY. freshwest Jul 2014 #229
No, it's satire. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #227
Well, it didn't miss a thing, did it? Thanks for explaining that! freshwest Jul 2014 #228
Missed one: The Myth of White Male Privilege betsuni Jul 2014 #230
I see you.... likely quite a few others do as well... alittlelark Jul 2014 #232
See me adding to the satire? betsuni Jul 2014 #234
Wait, I just realized, you and quite a few others see me right now? Better put on some clothes! betsuni Jul 2014 #235
I have a small sad that you'll never apologize for being wrong betsuni Jul 2014 #236
Poster is unable to reply pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #237
Ah! Thank you. betsuni Jul 2014 #238
 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
12. I hadn't read reply #1 before composing my other reply (#6), but that's a perfect example.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jul 2014

I had put them on ignore previously, but un-ignored them when I noticed there were gaps in the replies, to see what was written. Now I remember why I had done that in the first place.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
49. Actually I am arguing against that fact.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:10 PM
Jul 2014

It is NOT gendered behavior, that it has nothing to do with gender.

But err, thanks for telling me what it's like to be a man!

(Isn't that what I'm supposed to say when someone of another gender tells me about MY gender? Taking a page from your playbook that is...)

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
51. It is a gendered behavior. Men do it to women all the damn time. Women don't do it to men or women,
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:11 PM
Jul 2014

as a rule.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
55. I think that is the bottom line. You think that and I disagree.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:12 PM
Jul 2014

Any further talk would probably really be wasted at this point.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
174. Sorry, but women do it all the time, too.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:58 AM
Jul 2014

I've seen and heard it many times. Like the author of this piece says, it is not a gendered behavior specific to men. To suggest that only men do it is quite sexist, actually. You are being as stereotypical to men as you claim men are to women when you make such a claim. But I guess it's okay if it's men who are being unfairly stereotyped?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
46. Women mansplain to other women sometimes.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:08 PM
Jul 2014

Many women are misogynists and fight against the rights of other women. Many women are unknowingly agents of the male patriarchy. I have been there many times.

I love the term. It's fitting. Recently on DU we had a manplaining concert of men mansplaining to us why we should trust the supreme courts decision or that it was not sexist.

Mansplainers rarely try that shit with other men, but feel comfortable telling women stupid shit.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
68. If they do, why not choose a different word?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:18 PM
Jul 2014

And I saw those few idiots talk about the SCOTUS decision. They were idiots and they were extremely few. That doesn't justify a blanket determination that penises cause people to be condescending and it doesn't justify trying to shit people up because of their gender.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
71. We like the word. It's fitting.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jul 2014

It explains the phenomena women experience at the hands of society. Mos of the mansplainers are men. Stop mansplaining and i'll stop saying mansplaining.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
73. I'll try not to be condescending. Is that okay?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:22 PM
Jul 2014

You know I like you too much to be a jerk to you anyway.

I'm glad you like the term, but it is hopelessly sexist.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
179. The hell they are. I've known
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:14 AM
Jul 2014

a LOT of women who do that, to each other and to other men. It is NOT specific to one gender. The difference is that we, as women, have less institutionalized, structural, and cultural power and control than men.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
178. so you agree the concept exists, but the word is wrong.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:12 AM
Jul 2014

that's the price of a style-over-substance society, i suppose, where tone trolling rules over discussing ideas. smh

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
177. I've had the misfortunate of knowing plenty of women
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:11 AM
Jul 2014

who do just as you describe and it makes me as angry as sexist men. Actually, angrier because the women should know better. I've known several women for whom men are never, ever guilty of anything; that when a man does something wrong, it's always the fault of a woman somewhere, somehow (the wife, mother, sister, daughter, etc.), and when things go wrong, they look to blame a woman first and foremost before they even fully know anything. For them, any woman who even asks a man to do anything is being jealous, controlling, possessive, etc. They decry feminism and disdain feminists while reaping the benefits of the hard work and sacrifices of said feminists in earning for them the very rights they now take for granted or think that somehow men generously gave them.

They're the type that consider that woman-hating misogynist "Dr." Laura, and her stupid shit misogynist books like "The Care and Feeding of Husbands", which basically consists of telling women to just shut up, sit down and serve the needs of their husbands regardless of their own (my favorite was the one where she told a young woman who was caring for an infant as well as her terminally-ill mother, and who was understandably exhausted and in need of support from her husband but wasn't getting it, that she was "selfish and thoughtless" for not catering to her husband's whining about his "needs not being met&quot to be the go-to "expert" that women must listen to. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy.

I agree that "mansplaining" is not the correct or proper term, because women most assuredly to it, too, especially to each other. I think that "ego-splaining" is much more accurate.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
209. they always find the woman or the black person who will say it for them
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:16 AM
Jul 2014

thinking that makes in inarguable.

There are plenty of misogynistic women. Look at the Tea Party.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
110. Is that all you got?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:50 PM
Jul 2014

Pardon me, but I seem to recall that, recently, you yourself posted a couple of outdated articles concerning your own POV on a subject, and nobody complained about that.(and no, to be honest, I don't actually have any of them on hand; I believe at least one them might have been authored by Ta-Nehisi Coates, though.)

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #110)

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
150. Huh? She's an active poster. I don't get it...
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jul 2014
About bravenak

Statistics and Information

Account status: Active
Member since: Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:49 PM
Number of posts: 5,049
Number of posts, last 90 days: 1792
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 1450 posts in the last 90 days (81% of total posts)
Favorite group: African American, 184 posts in the last 90 days (10% of total posts)
Last post: Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:35 PM

Response to cyberswede (Reply #150)

Response to 1000words (Reply #154)

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
157. She was only "shown the door" as far as this thread goes, not all of DU, for having a post hidden.nt
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:34 AM
Jul 2014

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
2. I'll stop saying it when men stop talking down to me about things I know more about than them.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:25 PM
Jul 2014

You should definitely hold your breath while you wait.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
3. Gender has nothing to do with that behavior.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:28 PM
Jul 2014

"Mansplaining" makes as much sense as saying "Blondsplaining" (When Blonde people explain things to you).

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
8. Thanks for telling me what it's like to be female. You're right, I have no idea how men talk to me.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:33 PM
Jul 2014

Thanks for clearing that shit up, definitely not by mansplaining.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
21. Are you antagonized because I posted a feminist saying she never uses the term "mansplaining"?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:49 PM
Jul 2014

Why???

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
26. Your MO is to stir shit with women generally and feminists in particular. What's in that for you?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jul 2014

I could give a shit if some writer at XOJane (a website I generally find useless) finds "mansplaining" to be a helpful term or not. If it doesn't describe her experience good for her! But it unfortunately does describe a behavior many women are subject to with great frequency, and as such it's a useful term.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
33. You do sound antagonized.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:00 PM
Jul 2014

I hope you feel better soon. I didn't mean to antagonize anyone.

I was just posting an opinion piece on a discussion board.

That's because it is a discussion board.

Back to basics!

Response to LeftyMom (Reply #34)

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
48. Your argument about how having a word for the way men talk down to women is unhelpful,
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:09 PM
Jul 2014

which you are making by talking down to women, is perhaps less convincing than you think it is.

Response to LeftyMom (Reply #48)

Response to 1000words (Reply #57)

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
185. What do you get out of antagonizing
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:21 AM
Jul 2014

male DUers and painting them with the same huge broad brush you claim not to like being painted by? Oh, yeah, that's right, it's different. Because all men are the devil and all women are pure and holy. Got it now.

Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #185)

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
142. You don't know any women who do the same thing?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:57 PM
Jul 2014

Or perhaps it's not as obvious to either gender when the same gender exhibits the behavior?



(Legitimate question. )

===========================

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
184. I know perfectly well what it's like to
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:18 AM
Jul 2014

be talked down to and disdained by men, and I've also experienced plenty of the same from WOMEN themselves. And men I've known, including hubby, have been talked to the same way by women. It is an ACT that is NOT specific to gender and it is actually quite sexist to claim otherwise.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
217. he doesn't get it
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 11:54 AM
Jul 2014

He found one woman who agrees with him, so he is right, even if 10000 women disagree with him. Sounds like an accurate description of mansplanining to me.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
195. What utter nonsense. Since when are men portrayed as ditzy blondes in the media.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 02:26 AM
Jul 2014

What an absurd comment. Oh, I'm sure someone will dig up something where men are presented as The Dumb Blonde, but in no way will that compare to the constant barrage of what females endure.

Someone here posted pictures of men who were dolled up wearing heels and presented as sex objects in the same way women are splattered all over the media as sex objects, and it really drove home the point -- it was funny and adsurd in a pathetic way to see the men demeaned in that manner, but no one gives a thought to parading women around like show dogs in virtually every aspect of the media and entertainment.

This thread looks like you grabbed anything at all that was written by a woman, even going back two years, just so you can contradict and annoy women here. I guess it's a good way to get posts hidden. Any port in the storm.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
239. Uhm, some men can be dumb at times.
Fri Jul 11, 2014, 01:28 AM
Jul 2014

The poster didn't say anything about women. Or did you read the phrase "dumb blonde" and automatically assume the poster meant women?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
59. I don't how many times men have lectured me about feminism without knowing the basic history
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:14 PM
Jul 2014

of what rights we have one, and how limited things were just 30-40 years ago. It's kind of amazing that they would expound upon it when knowing so little.
Yeah, it;s a thing that happens, not "essentialist" or applying to all men at all. That was an idiotic analysis, no matter the gender of who wrote it.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
6. Many times I've seen it used on DU it as basically trying to invalidate some guys opinion
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jul 2014

like he's not allowed to have one precisely because he's a guy.

Telling anyone to shut up simply because of their gender is sexist, and quite rude. It's rude for men, and it's rude for women, and it's rude for any of FaceBook's 71 (or whatever) gender options.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
10. "Shut up and listen to me lecture you about lecturing."
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:33 PM
Jul 2014

It is a silencing method packed with a a nuclear bomb of irony.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
180. You're framing it as being told to "shut up simply because of...gender",
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:16 AM
Jul 2014

whenever I've seen "mansplain" used here or elsewhere it refers to the message not the speaker.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
15. Now i'm in a quandry
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:36 PM
Jul 2014

I'm a man, if I explain to this writer - or the person shucking the article out to us - that the concept of "manslplaining" has less to do with the gender of the explainer, and more to do with the gender of the explainee- "I need to explain this to you because you're a silly woman!" - would I then be mansplaining?

Well, not by the definition, but as it's being understood in the article, probably.

Ah well, I'll take one across the head in the interest of correcting misconceptions.

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #15)

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
20. Yes, your quandary is due to the ridiculousness of the term.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:48 PM
Jul 2014

In fact, your quandary is the perfect argument for why silencing people because of their genitalia is so stupid.

IronLionZion

(45,265 posts)
111. If men are silenced and castrated by feminists
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:52 PM
Jul 2014

we've solved the problem of genitalia, and lots of other problems too. That was easy.

I don't like condescending assholes of any demographic, and I realize that includes my snarky self too.

leftstreet

(36,081 posts)
23. The author makes a good point, but misses another
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:51 PM
Jul 2014

Sure any narcissistic, egotistical blowhard can be guilty of the behavior, regardless of said blowhard's gender

But the term originated to explain (!) the use of the behavior specifically towards women. As in, the woman was supposed to be the subject here

This article inadvertently takes it back and makes it all about the man

!!

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
38. May I diffidently offer the tentative opinion
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:03 PM
Jul 2014

that (with the probable exception of Joan Rivers) only males ever qualify as "narcissistic, egotistical blowhards?"

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
19. It's just another dumb internet invented fad word
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:46 PM
Jul 2014

Like "woo", or other stupid words that people with a lot of time on their hands and nothing better to do come up with...

Hopefully, it will go away sooner rather than later.

LisaLynne

(14,554 posts)
22. I don't agree with this article.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jul 2014

I do understand the point: that all people can interject themselves into a conversation and assume they know more than those who are already there. However, I think the term is referring to the tendency that men have to do this because of the socialization of males that goes on in our society. Is there a biological reason why men do this? No, to me, that is laughable, however, society does dictate our reactions to others and our behavior in both the public and private spheres.

Perhaps I've just seen more of it working in IT, so I tend to see it as an IRL thing, not just something on the internet, but just last week, we were talking about a misformatted 2 TB drive and my department's resident manplainer had to explain what FAT32 was to the three of us women ... who have all been working in IT since FAT32 was the bomb...

leftstreet

(36,081 posts)
61. +1 It's a term unique to a woman's experience
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:15 PM
Jul 2014

The author (inadvertently?) ignores, or at the very least diminishes that experience by discussing, instead, the Explainer. 'Oh anyone could do that!' But that wasn't the subject. What do we call it when it's done specifically to a woman? That was the original subject and the hence the coining of the original term

Fascinating

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
115. +1
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:58 PM
Jul 2014

It is from social norms and upbringing of males to be forceful and dominant in their opinions and to discount those of females. It's not about biology.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
137. The term describes a specific social behavior
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:49 PM
Jul 2014

that has been studied (we looked into this a bit in my last social psych class). The article misses the point of the term. The author seems to think it's about men interjecting during a personal argument. As you said, it's a lot more complex than that.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
143. As a fellow lady IT professional, I agree 100%.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:03 AM
Jul 2014

The worst is when I am subject matter expert on a topic, explain a process or system and a (male) executive turns and asks a male co-worker (who is a SME on something entirely different) whether what I just said was true. And this guy does it consistently with the (few) women.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
204. Yes, thank you. I worked in IT for almost 2 decades.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 07:58 AM
Jul 2014

Most of the men who worked for me were fine, but some of the vendors I had to deal with were awful.

There were certain vendors I would not use because their sales reps were so sexist I refused to deal with them.

It was not *most* men in IT that I dealt with, honestly a lot of them were great, but there were enough of them to make it a fairly regular thing to have to confront, and that was unpleasant. (As in "Oh no, not *this* shit again.&quot

Life is not always pleasant, but this was unpleasant because it was completely unnecessary. To anyone paying attention, they look like complete idiots - or insufferable jerks - when they do it.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
207. +1. My friends used to call it Male Answer Syndrome...
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 09:50 AM
Jul 2014

the compulsion to appear as an authority, to the extent that "answers" will be fabricated in the absence of knowledge.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
24. Results
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jul 2014

On Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:27 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why you'll never hear this Feminist use the word "Mansplain"...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025200765

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Four paragraph limit should be enforced by the community. Please hide this post,

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:39 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Thanks for trying to mansplain mansplaining.....
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 4 paragraph limit? There have been several Sears/Roebuck-class tomes in DU. Not gonna hide something I finally waded thru.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That's a real bullshitty alert and I don't believe that you're being sincere about your intentions.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree that the four-paragraph limit to linked articles should be enforced and if the Hosts of the Groups aren't going to do it, I guess that leaves it up to us jurors.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is a different button for that. Plus, I think part of it is the poster's own thoughts?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
27. Wow, what an inappropriate alert.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:53 PM
Jul 2014

It is the host's job to enforce such a policy. Why didn't the alerter just send me a PM or make a post suffusing I edit?

Response to Sissyk (Reply #24)

alp227

(31,962 posts)
193. Not a good reason for alerting...I'm surprised it even got 3 hide votes.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:55 AM
Jul 2014

"Four paragraph limit"? That's only for LBN not GD.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
28. This post was alerted on... I was on the jury
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:56 PM
Jul 2014

I am Juror #1

On Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:27 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why you'll never hear this Feminist use the word "Mansplain"...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025200765

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Four paragraph limit should be enforced by the community. Please hide this post,

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:39 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Thanks for trying to mansplain mansplaining.....
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 4 paragraph limit? There have been several Sears/Roebuck-class tomes in DU. Not gonna hide something I finally waded thru.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That's a real bullshitty alert and I don't believe that you're being sincere about your intentions.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree that the four-paragraph limit to linked articles should be enforced and if the Hosts of the Groups aren't going to do it, I guess that leaves it up to us jurors.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is a different button for that. Plus, I think part of it is the poster's own thoughts?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
40. You say you are a female, but you sound like my
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:05 PM
Jul 2014

soon-to-be-ex-husband.... he had to explain to me why I didn't agree w/ him. Explain why I really didn't understand things - in a nice way....

Soon he will be explaining to a judge where the 1/2 million went in ONE ACCT. $8500 to a forensic acct was the best investment I ever made.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
50. Sounds like you are mansplaining to the general audience
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:10 PM
Jul 2014

why my jury decision is 'silly'.... I know your type. That said, I have no one on 'ignore'.

Response to alittlelark (Reply #91)

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
130. You have a 40% chance for jury and have this quote in your profile...
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:30 PM
Jul 2014

"Try as you may, I will not give you the drama you seem to crave."

Seems to me you are attempting to evoke drama. Kinda 'Drama Queen' behavior...

Response to alittlelark (Reply #130)

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
32. maybe next time go to the link source, and you would have seen this article was written by a woman..
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:00 PM
Jul 2014
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
42. I'd say so. But at least it is novel to see someone proudly proclaim they voted to hide a post, lol
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:05 PM
Jul 2014

I don't see that very often.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
47. And based on a whole series of misunderstandings
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:08 PM
Jul 2014

and ignoring the entire reason for the alert and substituting their own reason,

Response to quinnox (Reply #56)

Response to alittlelark (Reply #63)

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
70. No shit. This one earned it and wears it proudly.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jul 2014

Wants to censor posts because she disagrees with them. Ugly. Not fit to be on a jury.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
84. A blunt assessment, but one I tend to agree with
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jul 2014

As we have seen, just in this thread alone, there are a few duers with very itchy trigger fingers for alerting on posts, so I'm being diplomatic with my words.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
102. Just....WOW.... As a JURY member I made a choice.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:44 PM
Jul 2014

....as a member of DU you are making assumptions, and not thinking them through is my guess.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
148. Ugly..... really.....
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:22 AM
Jul 2014


Me..... Right NOW


Doing some fun stuff


Enjoying life


I am not ashamed of my life or my posts and wear them proudly... cannot say the same of the gungeon or MRA dudes here.
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
164. I think they were saying they thought your vote to lock was "ugly", not you
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:41 AM
Jul 2014

personally. (You aren't ugly, by the way)

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
168. The point is that I am not ashamed to say who I am...
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:49 AM
Jul 2014

...w/o an actual address.

I am sooooo sick of these nasty 'poo throwers' posting their sick shit w/o consequences.....

I am willing to 'show mine'..... I wanna see them 'show theirs'

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
169. That's a good point
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:52 AM
Jul 2014

And she's worthless. She just suuuuuucks.

She's a Republucan replicant and should always be dismissed.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
112. Um......wow. I'm sorry, but.....really?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:54 PM
Jul 2014

The author of the article just happens to be a woman, btw. Women can't *possibly* mansplain no matter what the Diana Bostons or the Suey Parks, etc. of the world might think. Hell, it has the word MAN in it. That alone proves the point!

But, TBH, my main beef here isn't with you, though, so I hope you don't take this personally.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
132. The author is a self-hating woman - lots out there (Faux news etc.)
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:35 PM
Jul 2014

There are self hating ppl of every race and gender. They argue against their own self interests because it gives them $$ or 'worth'. They need therapy, instead we give them airtime.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
199. Lulz, man. xD
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 04:00 AM
Jul 2014

In all honesty, it's really not fair to assume that I automatically approved of what she read just because I'm a man. Obviously, someone at XOJane liked it as well, or it wouldn't have been posted.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
155. If you are indeed an 'average joe' you would not recognize it.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:34 AM
Jul 2014

The Phyllis Schaflys and her ilk have always been around, as have been the Clarence Thomases... They are mired in self-hatred and it is a sad, dark, pathetic thing...

You likely would not be able to recognize it if you are a middle to upper class white male.

Not trying to be insulting.... but it is what it is.

Response to alittlelark (Reply #155)

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
198. "Not trying to be insulting.... but it is what it is." Well, unfortunately, you kinda failed there.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 03:59 AM
Jul 2014

Because, although I hate to say this, it kinda IS insulting.

Again, what exactly *is* self-hating about what this woman wrote? And BTW, I know all too well about Phyllis Schafly.....she really IS a self-hater(just like Karen Straughan, the lady who runs GirlWritesWhat).

But as for Lesley, the lady who wrote this article on XOJane, a feminist website, by the way, if she really was a self-hating female person, do you think she would've been able to post on there? TBH, I really don't think so.

I mean, to be fair, you certainly are entitled to your opinion; you may not like what she wrote. I, however, did. But you could at least try to explain why you think she's a self-hating woman.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
231. I will alter my guess to be 'insecure'...
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:00 AM
Jul 2014

...insecure people behave in ways to make themselves 'secure'. In this case, aligning w/ male issues.

She's 'cuter' to certain types of men that way.... You KNOW what I am saying is accurate... If you want to argue, fine. .....but you KNOW.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
65. Love how you RACED to find a TWO YEAR OLD article to post about this.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:17 PM
Jul 2014

August 2012?
Such a serious and urgent problem. I guess this is an example of the misandry you worry about?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
75. I said i LOVE how you RACED to post this TWO YEAR old article.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:23 PM
Jul 2014

I am enjoying this immensly. Such an urgent problem.


?w=300&h=300

Response to redqueen (Reply #80)

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
97. Oh, excellent. An opportunity to share this:
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:41 PM
Jul 2014
http://generationhandmaid.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/its-not-about-the-nail-women-and-emotional-gaslighting/

I first heard of the term “emotional gaslighting” when I was perusing the internet in my downtime and was caught my the article title “Why Women Aren’t Crazy.” The writer Yashar Ali makes what I believe is an incredibly astute argument regarding how society treats women, both individually and as a whole, in order to convince themselves and everyone else that women are hormonal, crazy, irrational, and over-emotional when perhaps that’s not entirely fair. Yes, women have more estrogen than men, or else no one on this planet would be here, but it goes beyond that – women live in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t world. If we are too careful about revealing our bodies, talking to men and being physical, we’re prudish and bitchy. If we embrace our sexual agency and freedom, we’re sluts and whores. We are told things that are hurtful and would, in any other situation, be expected to be met with a negative reaction. But if we react to these criticisms, we are “being crazy”.

Gaslighting is a term, often used by mental health professionals (I am not one), to describe manipulative behavior used to confuse people into thinking their reactions are so far off base that they’re crazy….Those who engage in [emotional] gaslighting create a reaction—whether it’s anger, frustration, sadness—in the person they are dealing with. Then, when that person reacts, the gaslighter makes them feel uncomfortable and insecure by behaving as if their feelings aren’t rational or normal….women bare the brunt of our neurosis. It is much easier for us to place our emotional burdens on the shoulders of our wives, our female friends, our girlfriends, our female employees, our female colleagues, than for us to impose them on the shoulders of men. It’s a whole lot easier to emotionally manipulate someone who has been conditioned by our society to accept it. We continue to burden women because they don’t refuse our burdens as easily. It’s the ultimate cowardice.


When I originally posted a link to this article on my personal social media account, a male friend of mine responded with telling me that this wasn’t a women’s issue specifically, but could be applied to “people being jerks” as a whole. I responded by telling him that no, this is in fact a women’s issue. Emotional gaslighting specifically being applied to women in society is the issue I’m presenting here. He then told me that since he doesn’t do that he wouldn’t recognize it, but my honest takeaway from this exchange is that he did the exact thing I was trying to illuminate – he told me that I shouldn’t be upset because it was everyone’s problem, not just women, and I shouldn’t feel entitled to my…what? My pity party? Was this his knee-jerk reaction to the notion that straight white men in this country ought not to sit around feeling sorry for themselves?

I know that it’s hard to digest it when someone tells you that the socioeconomic group (or what have you) that you belong to has and is doing wrong to others, even if you are not directly causing it. Why do you thing so many people complain about there not being a White History Month? Because white folks are tired of feeling like a villain, but the solution here isn’t to complain, it’s to adjust our actions. I made a vow to stop emotional gaslighting even if I don’t recognize it, but I think that the men in my life and in my universe should at least ponder this idea for a few minutes before going about their day.

Women, repeat after me: “I am not crazy. I am entitled to my feelings. I am a rational human being.” Repeat as needed.

“Aunt Lydia said it was best not to speak unless they asked you a direct question. Try to think of it from their point of view she said, her hands clasped and wrung together, her nervous pleading smile. It isn’t easy for them.”

-Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid’s Tale

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
105. So we now have a couple of great new terms that, in effect, turn normal but "bad" human behavior
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:47 PM
Jul 2014

into fuel for the gender wars.

"Mansplaining" -for when MEN ONLY are condescending.

and

"Gaslighting" for when MEN ONLY try to tell others, longterm, that they are wrong about stuff.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
116. I think gaslighting originally could be applied to either gender, though, IIRC.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:58 PM
Jul 2014

But yeah, the tone deafness and lack of self-awareness does get kinda disturbing sometimes, TBH.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
156. Gaslight is an excellent movie, redqueen. Have you seen it? There are two versions.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:34 AM
Jul 2014

I have seen the Ingrid Bergman version but I want to see the original ...

Years after her aunt was murdered in her home, a young woman moves back into the house with her new husband. However, he has a secret that he will do anything to protect, even if means driving his wife insane. Paula's aunt, Alice Alquist, a famous entertainer, is murdered in her home. Paula, who lives with her aunt, finds the body. Police fail to find the killer, and Paula is sent away to school. Ten years later, Paula returns to London with her new husband. They take up residence in her aunt's house, which she has inherited. Paula is increasingly isolated by her husband but does come to the attention of an admirer of her aunt, Mr. Brian Cameron.
Director:
George Cukor
Writers:
John Van Druten (screen play), Walter Reisch (screen play), 2 more credits »
Stars:
Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman, Joseph Cotten

more at link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036855/?ref_=nv_sr_1

and the original =
Twenty years after the murder of Alice Barlow, her house is finally occupied again. However, the husband of the couple who have moved in has a secret which he will do anything to keep hidden. Twenty years ago, old Mrs. Barlow was killed in her home at 12, Pimlico Square for her priceless rubies. The murderer searched the whole house without finding them, then disappeared. The house has been empty since then, but now Paul and Bella Mallen move into the apartment. Bella Mallen suffers from forgetfulness and nervousness - at least that is what her husband tells her. An elderly horse wrangler, B.G. Rough worked as a policeman twenty years ago and still remembers the unsolved case. He notices that Mr. Mallen looks just like Louis Barre, Mrs. Barlow's nephew. And why does Mr. Mallen mysteriously leave every night just to go into the apartment next door, no. 14?

Director:
Thorold Dickinson
Writers:
Patrick Hamilton (play), A.R. Rawlinson (screenplay), 1 more credit »
Stars:
Anton Walbrook, Diana Wynyard, Frank Pettingell

more at link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031359/?ref_=nv_sr_2

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
176. An interesting article, but it sounds a lot to me like
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:10 AM
Jul 2014

this author is recounting how another writer (Yashar Ali) "mansplained" to her how society treats women.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
172. That second picture is awesome!
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:57 AM
Jul 2014

Just remember - most of them don't know what a diva cup is or why we should drink rose hip tea. Of course - they will still try to tell us something without being Ob/Gyns.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
77. Do you enjoy throwing this old 'poo'?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:25 PM
Jul 2014

Seriously, the primate w/ your moniker does... is that why you chose it?

You are throwing out 2 year old (admit-I had not noticed the date) poo and sitting back for a show. My guess anyway.

Primates throw poo at those that scare them.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
79. Do I enjoy discussing different opinions and issues on subjects on a discussion board?
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:27 PM
Jul 2014

Is that your question????

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
85. No, it was not... it was asking if you are actively trying to
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jul 2014

disrupt, disturb, agitate, or 'mess with' this message board.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
87. LOL, no I am posting an opinion about sexism written by a feminist that I agree with.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:32 PM
Jul 2014

Why is it so impossible for people to discuss this like adults without getting so frigging angry?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
139. She says she is and I wouldn't presume to tell her she is not.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:53 PM
Jul 2014

But I guess you feel that defining feminists is okay.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
175. Those guys w/ white hoods aren't KKK......
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:07 AM
Jul 2014

....stop saying they are.... it is insulting to them!!!!!

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
188. Sarah Palin says she's a feminist, too
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:26 AM
Jul 2014

Bet you believe her, too.

Is your problem becoming clearer now?

Or, dare I say it, are you about to mansplain what a feminist is to a site full of feminists?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
88. I don't think she deserved a hide for that.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:34 PM
Jul 2014

But I alerted on someone that called me a shit-stirrer and lost 5-2. Now THAT was a personal attack.

Jury results mean nothing. It's a crap shoot.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
89. Since that's what the OP was trolling for...
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:34 PM
Jul 2014

I guess he deserves a pat on the back.

Well done, mansplainers. Well done.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
90. Ask yourself why people cannot discuss things on a discussion board...
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:38 PM
Jul 2014

without getting so angry.

Now THAT might lead to some growth and learning.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
94. Nothing you mansplain is going to lead to growth and learning around here.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:40 PM
Jul 2014

But thanks for your efforts.



Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
98. Like I said, it was written by a Feminist. So it is not me "mansplaining" anything.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:42 PM
Jul 2014

But if you choose not to read opinions that you disagree with, then yeah, I agree, you will not grow one bit.

alittlelark

(18,886 posts)
191. Look in the mirror......
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:35 AM
Jul 2014

....but then I can guess what you would see $$$$$$$

Profitable enterprise!!!

Response to Electric Monk (Reply #86)

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
186. Love it!
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:23 AM
Jul 2014

Exactly - rather dscussthis than how we can get out there and get people revved up to vote our interests this. We had a nice dinner out this evening to set up a Citizens United for PAC for our candidate in our district.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
212. Summertime, and the livin' is easy, fish are jumpin'
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jul 2014

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2014, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

and Discussionist's dry.

Inkfreak

(1,695 posts)
205. Well, it appears only one has spawned.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 08:31 AM
Jul 2014

I'll chalk it up to a holiday weekend. http://www.democraticunderground.com/125546659

Tough luck on those hides. I can take a page from your fan base and start a thread in The Men's Group for ya. I'll condemn the jury system and go on about how the admins are letting this site go to hell.

Response to Inkfreak (Reply #92)

Response to Inkfreak (Reply #113)

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
117. lol, to quote another post in this thread, "Good Call"
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:59 PM
Jul 2014

We might see weeks on end of threads saying how this is a wonderful "all inclusive" term, which advances the struggle against the patriarchy, and everyone should accept it as such, or if they don't, then they must hate women!

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
99. "Mainsplain" is an intellectual crutch
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:43 PM
Jul 2014

A neologism invented to dismiss an argument without having to actually articulate a counterargument. The author skewers it pretty well.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
201. Notice the completely baseless accusations of self-hatred as well.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 04:05 AM
Jul 2014

And believe me, I can smell even the tiniest self-hatred a mile away. If people want some actual examples, they can go google Karen Straughan or JudgyBitch sometime(and yes, that actually is the latter's real screenname that she goes by; I forget her real name, though). But the author of this piece doesn't seem to be one of those.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
210. I thought you wrote "intellectual crotch."
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:19 AM
Jul 2014

Oh dear, then I thought I saw "the author skewers balls pretty well." I think I need glasses.

Zenlitened

(9,488 posts)
126. I feel kind of the same way about the phrase "gender wars."
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:24 PM
Jul 2014

Now that's a made-up term designed to silence conversation.

Seems to pop up whenever women discuss our life experiences and relative positions in the world.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
131. Ok, I'll put some money on it
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:34 PM
Jul 2014

It's very eye opening to see for yourselves. I'll pay $100 to any person who chooses a female username for one month and does not once experience some kind of mansplaining, or worse, open hostility. Try it. Just make a username on sites you normally frequent, give the same opinion you would with your male or neutral username, and see what happens. I assure you, you will be shocked if you give it an honest try.

Here is a link to an article about how women with feminine-sounding usernames experience far more hostility than gender neutral names. (I know nothing about this source but the article is correct)

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/

I have seen it myself too many times to count. On DU and most especially wide-use sites, especially in posts relating to gender or any subject that is considered traditionally male (but it can happen anywhere). A typical DU example is feminine username says something, poster tells her she is wrong in a very condescending way and basically tells her to stfu. I come along and say the EXACT same thing and the poster engages in a discussion, often not agreeing, but at least showing a modicum of respect. On other sites such as sports or yahoo or what have you, the same scenario generates women being called the worst possible names, threats of rape, murder and "why don't you go kill yourself you whore". I come along and say the EXACT same thing and get, "Look bro, hear me out."

So try it for a month and come back and tell us all about your experiences. I am quite serious as I think it would be great. I wish I had more to up the stakes, but I hope I will get at least one taker. And no, this isn't for trolling or infiltration purposes, it's for your own edification to make sure you are absolutely correct. What's there to lose?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
138. It is self fulfilling. When women do it, it isn't mansplaining and
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:52 PM
Jul 2014

when men experience the very same behavior from women (which we do, lots) then we don't call it mansplaining.

It is an example of "linguistic determinism".

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
140. What about the opposite of that
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:55 PM
Jul 2014

Use a generally male username and talk about something relating to women. How quickly will you hear "You don't get it, you can't understand it" and so on?

Are there real problems for women (or those with female usernames) online? Sure. But those same problems exist for those who identify as male, just on a different level.

Maybe both males and females should spend less time focusing on the gender of a poster and more on the content of what they post.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
167. I generally don't think my opinion equals a lifetime of experience
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jul 2014

Just as I wouldn't lecture an African American about racism. I am a PoC, but being of the brown persuasion, I can't tell someone what their life experience is. I can't tell a physically challenged person what it's like to live their lives and on and on. I am highly opinionated, but don't get offended when someone else is more expert on a subject.

Try it. Someone telling you "you don't get it" is far less than the vicious verbal assaults I have seen against female posters on many sites. For that matter, in public. But the internet allows you to experience the other side. I urge you to experience it yourself.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
149. As a guy who works with people who constantly
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:23 AM
Jul 2014

Explain (usually poorly) things I already know, how do I reconcile this with being a sexist behavior? I'll admit men tend to do this more often than women, but when a man spends half his time '"mansplaining" to guys and the other half doing it to women, it seems to me he's being equally annoying to both genders.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
206. When you observe that man explaining more to women and less to guys, that's how.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 09:42 AM
Jul 2014

If he truly does it oblivious to gender it's not mansplaining. It's just egotistical, know-it-all behavior. However, the fact that he does it seemingly equally to either gender may not mean that it's gender-neutral.

For example, if a board is loose and it needs to be reattached, he may explain to a man that he'll need a hammer to tighten up that nail, but to a woman he may explain it first by showing her the hammer and cautioning her on not hitting her thumb by accident when she's hammering and come to think of it, maybe he should demonstrate how it's done. In that case he's mansplaining it because the presumption is that the hapless man has some skills but the hapless woman has none.

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
153. To each there own, though I agree with some points expressed lets just say I personally feel
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:31 AM
Jul 2014

That the term is fitting .....

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
159. Good For her. She is a real feminist, by golly. wow.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:38 AM
Jul 2014

Bless her little po-dunkin heart. I bet her husband is just thrilled to have all those stimulating arguments with her.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
202. Not All Mansplainers?
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 07:33 AM
Jul 2014

Women are supposed to get angry at this post and comment about what they think and why. The reply is, "Oh, I just want to discuss this and you won't." Nothing has anything to do with gender. Nothing has anything to do with anything. We are all islands. There is no society, no culture, no history, only the individual. No humor allowed in describing human interaction if it mentions my group, which I simultaneously insist does not exist (because individual, me, me, me) and that if anyone says anything about some of the group it means every single one and I take it personally (or pretend to). You might tell me of your decades of experiences, but I will not listen. I am the center of the universe and all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds. I will post things I know will vex you, I will revel in your annoyance. Vengeance is mine! I murmur and chuckle as I type the same words over and over and over.

"Pangloss gave instruction in metaphysico-theologico-cosmoloonigology. He proved admirably that there cannot possibly be an effort without a cause and that in this best of all possible worlds the Baron's castle was the best of all castles and his wife the best of all possible Baronesses. It is clear, said he, that things cannot be otherwise than they are, for since everything is made to serve an end, everything necessarily serves the best end. Observe noses were made to support spectacles, hence we have spectacles. Legs, as anyone can plainly see, were made to be breeched, and so we have breeches. ... Candide listened attentively and believed implicitly ... listening to Master Pangloss, the greatest philosopher in the province and consequently in the entire world."

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
215. The vex is on the other foot!
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 11:37 AM
Jul 2014

We know the usual response, though, so not missed: I disagree (not explained why, just do), therefore any further discussion will be wasted because I won't acknowledge your experience (and one person saying something I agree with trumps all of you thousands of silly persons saying something else); I am poking you with a sharp stick of stupid and you must like it, otherwise you wouldn't get so worked up and angry, no reason to get upset (what stick, huh?); I didn't understand what you said, etc. Poor Charisma Man!

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
219. In which the OP predictably gets locked out of his own thread.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:15 PM
Jul 2014

And acquires the ban hammer attribute.

WatermelonRat

(340 posts)
224. That's what passes as a neckbeard these days?
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 05:09 PM
Jul 2014

Henry David Thoreau frowns upon today's lackluster standards.
[img][/img]

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
230. Missed one: The Myth of White Male Privilege
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 12:51 AM
Jul 2014

And I prefer "Radfem" to Feminazis, to be honest. Also, why not: "I'm only trying to help you learn": How Feminists Created "Mansplaining" To Silence Men.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
235. Wait, I just realized, you and quite a few others see me right now? Better put on some clothes!
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 04:06 AM
Jul 2014

I'm so embarrassed. Those flabby bits around the middle? They'll be gone by next week, I swear. I was going to jog today but it rained quite a bit. I'm taking a walk later to the supermarket, though. I'm not going to buy cheese, really, I promise. No more cheese, I mean it this time. I was totally going to find my hand weights (are they in the back of the closet or did I put them in a box somewhere?) and do some repetitions, but then I forgot because I had to make lunch. Anyway, why are you people staring at me? I am not an animal!

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
236. I have a small sad that you'll never apologize for being wrong
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 08:14 AM
Jul 2014

even though you apologized to others upthread: "Assumption on my part I guess. I have no problem accepting being wrong." Ironic.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
237. Poster is unable to reply
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 08:27 AM
Jul 2014

Her hidden reply #233 resulted in her being barred from posting again in this thread.

I 'got' your riff, though it may not have been clear to everyone that it was mockery of MRA spew and not your POV.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
238. Ah! Thank you.
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jul 2014

Since the magazine cover was clearly satire, I'm amazed and puzzled that anybody could not understand that it was a joke. i guess it's like how I can't understand algebra or even simple math, but at least I keep my ignorance to myself to avoid the inevitable embarrassment.

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