Why haven't any "open carry" activists been shot by cops like blacks waving wallets?

[yurbud]

or a Latino kid walking around with a bb gun that looks like an assault rifle?

Blacks and Latinos WITHOUT real weapons are shot and killed on the suspicion that they MIGHT have them.

If I was a cop and I saw a bunch of guys walking into a business with assault rifles slung over their shoulders, I might reasonable assume they were going to rob it or go postal since you don't need an AR-15 to pick up items at Target or shovel food into your mouth at a restaurant.

I do not wish those idiots any harm. But if the cops take down one or several of them even once, they hardly have room to complain since it is a regular occurrence for non-whites SUSPECTED of having a gun.

[arcane1]

1. How soon before one mistakes the other for a robber and they shoot each other?

[Ahpook]

67. Sooner or later

And everyone in the middle of these clowns will be dodging bullets.

[FreakinDJ]

2. Good Question

[ZombieHorde]

3. Probably several reasons.

1) Open carry folks are generally white, which is a cop's favorite color.
2) Open carry folks are well armed, so they are a little harder to oppress.
3) Open carry folks seem less hippy like, and cops get boners when they punch hippies.

[thesquanderer]

48. Of course open carry folks are white.

Any black guy who open-carries might as well wear a t-shirt that says "Shoot me."

Because the only thing that stops a black guy with a gun is a white guy with a gun.

[X_Digger]

82. umm..

?d5825b

[nomorenomore08]

86. It's called "an exception that proves the rule," I believe. n/t

[X_Digger]

90. Most? Many? Sure. But to categorically state that they ARE white? Meh.

Here in Fort Worth, there are more black gun owners at the local range I go to than white. But if I said, "Gun owners in Fort Worth are black." -- that's a stupid thing to say, no?

[nomorenomore08]

92. True enough. But people do tend to respond differently to a white man with a gun

versus a black man with a gun. Not in every instance, perhaps, but generally speaking.

[X_Digger]

96. Maybe I'm spoiled in Fort Worth, but most of my black friends (the men at least) have their CHL.

Quite a few of the women do, too.

[nomorenomore08]

102. Concealed carry is one thing. By definition, you're not supposed to be able to see the gun.

I was speaking more of "open carry."

[X_Digger]

109. Just saying that gun owners, CHL, etc- are all more black than white here in FTW.

A black store owner around the corner from me frequently open carries a handgun in his furniture store (which is legal as the business owner.) Doesn't seem to freak out his customers.

[nomorenomore08]

111. Understood. n/t

[heaven05]

117. all this deflection

from the real point is BS. Yes of course black men have their CDL and thank goodness, some do. Yet the furniture store bullshit, is just that, if the people who were at BUNDYLAND were black and did what transpired over those weeks of standoff, most if not all would be dead today. That's the point that everyone wants to dance around on this issue concerning the 'open carry' by fearful whites of that brown tyrant in the white house. An admission of open racism by this country's police forces would be appreciated and then solutions on bringing this behavior to a halt, in this culture, would also help. This intellectualizing mess is sickening.

[X_Digger]

120. If this apple were an orange, then yes, it'd be.. orange.

Comparing two disparate things and saying that they're not alike.. how.. fascinating.

[heaven05]

122. deflection is an

Last edited Wed Jul 9, 2014, 09:09 AM - Edit history (1)

obvious tactic and art of enablers of false dichotomy when reality points to what the truth is. If a community of color were to all the sudden claim their right to open carry, I fear another 'Rosewood" would be in the offing.

[X_Digger]

136. Come to Fort Worth's gun ranges and speak to the owners there.

That might be the case where you live, but I doubt it'd make much of a ripple here.

[heaven05]

146. probably true

but my point(s) stand as fact for most if not all people of color, who are not police. Although even some of them have been 'mistaken' as dangerous because they had a concealed weapon and were black. You're still on a GUN RANGE that is a place where 'open carry' is always a fact. If a black or brown person were to walk into a restaurant, Target or a bank with a weapon, shouldered or holstered as so many want to point out as proper 'open carry' mode, he/she would be brought down one way or another by 'authorities. Just fact based on cultural precedent. Give me some photos of black men in proper 'open carry' mode, as I have seen of so many white men, in restaurants, stores, banks THEN I could believe that my perceptions of answers in this OP that try to deflect reality, is wrong. Otherwise.................my statement(s) stand as fact.

[X_Digger]

147. See my first reply in this thread- pics as requested.

The first pic was at a political rally, the second was at a bookstore (pic taken outside), and the third was at a gas station.

[heaven05]

148. glad to see it

yet my point stands for the majority. I know america and what it has stood for, for MANY generations. Your photos are anomalous, not fact for a majority. But glad to see what your photos depict. When all law abiding people are allowed the same right without racism intruding, okay. Your point will be well founded. Bottom line with me is all this 'wild west' mentality verges on insane obsession. I do not agree with 'open carry'. It is a reflection of fear based in, most times, stupid rationalizations of perceived threat. Round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows. GUNS carried on every person is not a solution for a supposedly advanced civilized society to handle it's cultural problems. It's looks like we're headed that way and well........... To many 'idiots' own and carry.

[MineralMan]

4. I don't know. My first response, though,

to seeing someone doing open carry in some place like Target is going to be to call 911. When the operator answers, I'll provide my name and location and say that there is an openly armed man or armed men at that location and that I'm very concerned for my safety and for the safety of others.

I will expect a squad car to show up, too. Frankly, I think everyone should adopt that response as a personal policy. Armed subject calls should always receive a police response, since nobody is qualified to know whether they are there with peaceful or dangerous intent. If asked for a description, I will give one. If asked for the race of the carrier, I will ask why that matters and request an ETA for the squad to arrive.

I guarantee that I will call. And I'm a older white man with a very serious demeanor in such cases. The police will respond if I call.

[Llewlladdwr]

7. Awesome idea!

Not only does it waste police resources, it harrasses people engaged in a lawful activity. It's a win-win!

[MineralMan]

8. You know what? I don't give a damn.

I do not know the intent of people I see who are openly armed in such a situation. I'm going to let the authorities figure that out. I'm guessing you wouldn't know their intent, either, unless you're part of the group.

If I see someone armed in a place like a business or public place, I'm making the call. They can explain their Second Amendment rights to the cops. How's that?

You can do as you please, too. I certainly will.

[Travis_0004]

41. most criminals dont open carry

They dont want the attention.

[JDPriestly]

57. That is not necessarily true.

What with open carry laws, it will not take long for criminals to feel perfectly comfortable carrying their weapons openly.

[heaven05]

69. exactly

and it's bound to happen, if it hasn't already and we just won't hear about it through MSM.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

149. This is nothing but baseless fantasy.

And if open were so prevalent that they could blend into a crowd of people openly carrying then they would probably realize theirs is a life-threatening profession because so many people are armed.

That would actually be a good thing.

What a glorious day it would be if a would be rapist were sitting in his living room talking to his friends and says, "Hey man. Let's go down to the park and grab us one of them little honeys jogging in them yoga pants," only to be cut-off mid-sentence by his friends saying, "Are you nuts! You want to get shot or something?!?!?"

[JDPriestly]

151. I live in a neighborhood that is under gang injunction.

We had 12 murders within maybe a year a year or so ago. Some years ago, the son of our neighbor down the street was severely injured in a drive-by shooting.

Based on my experience your paragraph starting "What a glorious day it would be . . . . " is the fantasy.

The more guns, the more likely people are to get shot.

As I said, I know what it's like for people to walk around in your neighborhood with guns. Sooner or later, people decide they want justice for something and the crime just increases.

Let's voluntarily leave law enforcement to the police. They aren't perfect, but they wear uniforms and are trained not just on how to use guns but on how to avoid using guns. Ordinary citizens are not trained to make the quick decisions and to rely on the teamwork that is needed to enforce the law.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

152. The gangs that are making their money off of drugs will suddenly be pacified by your new laws?

[nomorenomore08]

89. But how do you know which is a "criminal" and which isn't, just by looking?

Open carry means everyone gets to carry openly.

[JVS]

98. Everybody wants to see the future. The fact is we never know who is a criminal until they have...

committed a crime. So the answer to your question is, you have to wait and see if they actually commit crimes if you want to know if they're criminals.

[nomorenomore08]

100. True. But I'm still not going to feel especially safe around someone packing a semi-auto rifle.

[randys1]

104. The minute you feel safe around gun nuts, all is lost.

[Travis_0004]

125. so why call the cops on a legal activity

You are just taking them away from people who actually need help.

[nomorenomore08]

133. All right, to put it another way, how do I know *with certainty* that a random guy carrying an AR-15

isn't a potential Adam Lanza or James Holmes? Especially once carrying that kind of firepower in public becomes more "normal" and accepted?

[quakerboy]

121. Intelegent people try to anticipate likely outcomes

If open carry becomes more a "thing", it will be easier for criminals to bring their weapons places just by slinging it publicly. And then no one can do jack until they actually make an open threat. Open carry is a great deal for criminals of all stripes. They can openly bring weapons wherever they want, but if the guards look alert or they get a bad vibe or they notice a camera at the last second, they can still walk away, and no one can touch them.

[MineralMan]

126. Ah, the more guns make us safer gambit...

You're wrong, you know. Or maybe you don't. I don't really care, though.

[nomorenomore08]

130. The only way more guns would make that scenario safer is if the "good guy" is a damn good marksman.

I mean like professional sniper level. Otherwise, the carnage is likely to multiply.

[MineralMan]

134. Even then it is a myth.

The more guns, the more danger. Period. And I'm a firearms owner. I don't carry them in public, though, even though I have an MN carry permit.

[nomorenomore08]

135. Very true. And you can see that reflected in this country's insane gun-violence rate. n/t

[pleinair]

81. I'm with you, MineralMan! n/t

[CBGLuthier]

12. lawful activity?

Being an asshole may be legal but we still do not condone it. Sooner or later a bunch of these assholes are going to get someone killed. I hope it is only themselves.

[MineralMan]

19. The thing is that I and most other people are not competent

to tell which armed people are peaceable and which are planning some mass shooting. They won't be carrying signs or anything like that. The Police can figure it out, as far as I'm concerned.

And if I call, they will come. I'm very good at getting things done.

[SheilaT]

74. Bingo!

Not to mention that almost everyone involved in any sort of mass shooting acquired their guns legally. If you go out with a gun in public I can only assume the worst.

[uponit7771]

14. I'm sure most people who think like this would be the FIRST to call the police if black people open

...carry nonchalantly in their neighborhoods...

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. I was thinking that ...

glad you said it ... because my version wouldn't have been so nice.

[nomorenomore08]

91. +2

[mopinko]

20. hey, leo's are all over the right to bear arms. they would be wasting their own time.

i dont care, either.

[MineralMan]

28. The funny thing is that some people make the assumption that

a guy carrying a semi-auto rifle into a place like Target or some restaurant are automatically just guys exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Why is that a valid assumption. We've seen several stories in past months about people shooting up places and killing multiple people. I have no idea what the intent is of a person carrying a semi-auto rifle where that isn't the norm. Workplace shootings, guys shooting up theaters, random crazy assholes shooting up places then killing themselves.

Why shouldn't I assume that such is the motivation for some moron carrying a semi-auto rifle into a public building. So, that's what I'll assume "in an abundance of caution" and take the advice law enforcement keeps publishing: "If You See Something, Say Something." I'm making the call. If the intent is harmless, I'm sure the police can determine that after talking to the armed people. I'm sure as hell not going to confront them, since I'm not armed, myself.

Screw it! Call 911 and let the experts sort it out. That's my call.

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. Because ? ...

I have no idea what the intent is of a person carrying a semi-auto rifle where that isn't the norm. Workplace shootings, guys shooting up theaters, random crazy assholes shooting up places then killing themselves.

Why shouldn't I assume that such is the motivation for some moron carrying a semi-auto rifle into a public building.

you are sane and care more about general public safety than a wholly corrupted interpretation of an imaginary right?

[MineralMan]

58. I can see the potential for it being a dangerous situation, since we've had

ample evidence of that in recent history. Since I have no way to tell what's on the minds of the people carrying the firearms, I have to exercise caution and inform the authorities, just in case there is bad intent involved. I'm not competent to judge people's motivations in a situation where I don't know the people involved.

Better safe than sorry, as the saying goes. If the folks are just carrying because of their right to do so, I'm sure the police officers will be able to ascertain that after questioning them. I wouldn't know the questions to ask, since I have no training in such things. I have training in firearms, but not in assessing motivations in strangers.

I'm not assuming either thing. I just don't know, and I sure don't want to be in a place where people start shooting the place up, after all. That would be dangerous for me and others.

I say, let the police sort things out. They're trained in such things.

[Dustlawyer]

68. After the white two cops were killed in cold blood in a fast food establishment, they may deal with

them differently NOW. The Open Carry idiots are just that, along with tone deaf and many other unflattering adjectives I could add that would apply. It is a sad fact of our lives that cops are insular and have fallen prey to the shit shoveled by Conservatives and RW media. They are way to disproportionately Republicans themselves. I work with a police organization and I am open about my progressive views. Some cops confide in me that they vote Democrat (or say they do), but are even afraid to admit it,and rightfully so if they want to keep their jobs and move up the ladder. The minority cops are caught between protecting and backing up their fellow cops or they have the same problem. They know that backup is slow for those cops on the outs with the rest, as well as their advancement etc.

Because I have saved the asses of their brethren when they get into trouble (I only take the cases I believe in) they are nice to me and treat me like their token Liberal. They try to avoid politics with me because I know a lot more than talking points. I have gone up against 20-30 at a time, getting concessions from about a 3rd with the rest just stubbornly sticking with what they want to believe in spite of the facts. I do this pro bono work for them for two reasons: 1. They really do have a tough job, getting lied to all day and treated like shit, which adds to their view of "us against them!"; and 2. When the protests happen here, and they will because I am organizing one to get the money out of politics starting 9/13/2014 - 11/4/2014 (Election Day), I want them on our side, or at least neutral.

We do ourselves no favors by generalizing all cops as bad because that is not true. Many are and the system of protecting each other, like soldiers in a unit do, is wrong for their type of work. At their annual convention every year, the main speaker alternates between Gov. Rick Perry and AG and the Republican candidate for Governor, Greg Abbott. I refuse to concede law enforcement to the Republicans!

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. My Dad (R.I.P.) was a cop ...

Though he was , largely a Law and Order" type, he was far from what would now be considered conservative/republican.

My sister dates cops ... the most recent one was a Deputy Sheriff and SWAT member. We had a lively dinner time discussion about the 2nd Amendment and President Obama's being an existential threat to the "right to bear arms." It was my first time meeting him; but he no longer speaks to me because of the discussion that followed my asking him two questions:

1) When is President Obama going to start taking your "right" to have guns? And,
2) Why is gun ownership so very important?

To the former, he answered "he already has (per rush, beck and Levine)." I asked him to research it and get back to me.

The dialogue following his answer to the second question stills provides me with hours of amusement (4 years later), as I recall watching his head explode. He, of course, answered we need the right to bear private arms to "protect us from the government!"

I asked him: "Your SWAT, right?"

RW Cop Guy: "That's right!"

Me: "When you're on a SWAY call, you deal with some pretty bad characters ... Huh?"

RW Cop Guy: "That's right!

Me: "And most of those bad guys are armed when you go after them, right?"

RW Cop Guy: "That's right!"

(At this point my Mom threw me that 'Don't do this' look that moms across the world are known for, when they know something bad is about to happen.)

Me: "Let me ask you ... When you and your guys go through that bad guy's door, is there ever a question in your mind that, no matter how many guns that bad guy has, no matter how many bad guys are with the bad guy you're going after ... at the end of the day, you and your guys are going to be the only ones with the guns and that bad guy, and everyone that gets in your way is going to be in handcuffs, dead, or dying?

RW Cop Guy: "That's right ... we're good at what we do and we have no fear."

(Mom's head dipped a bit, knowing what was coming next, because this was why my Law and Order Dad wasn't big on the 2nd Amendment.)"

Me: "So, what makes you think YOUR having a gun is going to matter? When/if the government ever decides to get your guns, it's gun over!"

RW Cop Guy without saying another word ... Left the table and left the restaurant.

[Dustlawyer]

144. Sounds like some of my conversations, they just have this unreasonable fear that if reasonable

restrictions are passed, they will lead to taking all guns. This is due to the same RW talking heads you mentioned.

Funny but sad at the same time!

[yurbud]

145. you have cajones of depleted uranium

[yurbud]

143. excellent point--and they were of the same political ilk as open carry cult

[FuzzyRabbit]

26. Lawful activity?

" . . . it harrasses[sic] people engaged in a lawful activity."

BS. Only an idiot would assume someone bringing a gun into a store is NOT going to rob it.

The only exception would be if it is a gun shop, otherwise there is no reason to display a gun in a store.

[yurbud]

37. I imagine the gun store owner goes on imperceptible alert when someone brings a gun IN

at least until they set it on the counter.

[bluesbassman]

32. Interesting perspective "harasses people engaged in a lawful activity".

Seems to me that scaring the hell out of innocent people trying to conduct their daily activities by open carrying in stores and restaurants is the real harassment in this case.

[nomorenomore08]

94. +1

[padfun]

42. It's not ours to judge whether their activity is lawful or not.

Why would you assume that someone walking into a store with a gun is doing something lawful?
In that case, EVERY bank robber is lawful until he actually puts a demand note down.

[irisblue]

45. if i see someone with a gun

I will call 911in a heartbeat. There is no way I can know what that fools' intensions are. The cops will be called…my right to be secure in my person is more important to me then that fools' ego inadequacy.

[heaven05]

47. you still didn't answer the question

????? but given your answer, not hard to understand. Deflection tactics are very obvious. Very.

[Anansi1171]

59. Where did you go? Anyway, what's wasteful of police resources to report suspicious activity?

Isn't that what was missed in the OP; that black and brown skinned individuals CANNOT engage in lawful activity because suicide by cop?

Win-win indeed!

[Hugabear]

76. How can you tell if someone is engaging in lawful activity, or planning a robbery?

If someone is walking into a business carrying a gun, as an ordinary citizen I have no way of knowing if they are planning to rob that business. You can't just go by their appearance or demeanor, as many robbers present themselves in a very nice, clean-cut professional manner.

Unless you're somehow able to read their mind, it should always be safe to err on the side of caution.

[PeaceNikki]

93. Their intent is to frighten and intimidate. Consider it mission accomplished.

[uponit7771]

13. This is simple and easily done... call the police... don't take them as safe... Should be OP

[MineralMan]

15. No, I'm not going to make it an OP. GD doesn't need

any more gun threads. People will do what they think best. For me, it's going to be a call to 911 if I see open carry morons in places like Target, public parks and the like. The nice police officers can sort out whether the carriers are peaceable or dangerous. I'm incompetent to do that, and I'm not going to confront someone with a firearm. I'm not stupid that way.

[Eleanors38]

112. Why not? GD means "Guns Deplored." nt

[MineralMan]

38. I decided to go ahead and make it an OP. Here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025212320

[2pooped2pop]

17. at the least, I will be leaving and telling management why

and probably pretty loudly.

[MineralMan]

21. If the police come, management will figure it out

pretty quickly. They don't want the police coming into their store and confronting armed people, either. Just call 911 and report a man with a loaded gun where you are and ask them to please hurry. Tell them you're worried about a mass shooting. They'll come. I guarantee it.

[yurbud]

18. that is exactly what should happen every single time. I don't see how anyone could argue with that

[MineralMan]

23. If you see something, say something.

Signs saying that are all over the place. Call 911 if you see openly armed people where people aren't usually armed. After all, there have been a number of mass shootings recently. You're just trying to alert the police that a dangerous situation may be developing. If you are sincere about it in your call to 911, they'll come. I guarantee it. And give your name when you call. They won't share it with the armed people, but it helps to make them take your call seriously.

[2pooped2pop]

27. seriously, seeing people with guns scare me

yeah, I know not all gun owners are idiots, but hell I've seen video of cops pulling their guns and it getting caught on something and going off, shooting them. Or people dropping guns, causing it to go off. Not to mention the people like myself who see red when we get pissed and are likely to make a dumb move like using one if it was right there. If we had to go home to get the gun, or even out to the car, it gives you a few minutes to realize what you are doing and stop yourself from making a really bad move.

[oldhippie]

56. I can tell you what the response ....

... would be in my community. I know a couple of the 911 operators and I have talked to our chief of police about this several times. If someone calls 911 with a "man with a gun" call the first thing that will be asked is what kind of gun? In Texas there is no open carry of a handgun, and if that is what is specified there will be a response dispatched. If the caller says a person is carrying a rifle, shotgun or other long gun the operator will then ask, "What is he doing with the gun?" If the caller says he doesn't know, or doesn't specify anything illegal, or just states that s/he is fearful, there will not likely be a car dispatched unless one is nearby and not on another call. The Chief's attitude is not to waste resources responding to legal activities. He is not big on other people's opinion as to intent, only actions.

So here in my town, a man with a handgun will get you a squad car pretty quickly. A long gun, probably not unless he is doing something illegal. I'm pretty sure your city would be different. It could even be different in a bigger city here in Texas, but not in a suburban/rural area like mine.

[MineralMan]

60. It depends, I think. I'm good at communicating.

"What is he doing?" "He seems to be looking around in a furtive manner. He looks nervous."

Knowing what will trigger a response lets a person say the right thing to get a response, without saying anything that is untrue.

In any case, I'd make the call and do my best.

[heaven05]

114. or, if that police chief get the call, "he's a black man,

he seems to be looking around in a furtive manner and he seems nervous". Bet your bottom dollar that chief of police of the poster you're responding to will dispatch a car with plenty of backup. No doubt about it.

[nomorenomore08]

99. What makes you think it's okay to carry around an AR-15 (M-16 knockoff) in public?

It may be technically legal in some places, but the intention of intimidating others is fairly obvious.

[nomorenomore08]

127. Because carrying around a big honking gun is *exactly* like driving the speed limit...

My only question is, how do you tell a potential mass shooter from a "harmless" open-carry buff?

And no, guns don't necessarily frighten me. I've known people who legally owned them, and I have no problem with that. But semi-auto rifles of the kind used by James Holmes and Adam Lanza would understandably make most people, including myself, a little nervous.

Further question - if it's really about gun rights, then why do these "open carry" guys always select the biggest, scariest-looking gun they can legally obtain?

[nomorenomore08]

139. I don't favor banning guns, which is unrealistic anyhow. I just question the need to wave them

around in public. And I question the wisdom of making "open carry" an accepted norm. I have no problem with folks carrying concealed, but going around with an AR-15 slung over your shoulder seems like an inherently provocative act to me.

And yes, I know what "semi-auto" means. But "one bullet at a time" was still enough for several mass shooters to mow down dozens of people. Carry a gun if you must, but why a big ol' assault rifle?

[Anansi1171]

128. Jedburgh? With 3 posts on a gun topic. Just curious...

...do you have any connection to US Army Special Forces? Because I do, and I find the use of the name Jedburgh curious. Is that your name?

[X_Digger]

95. And you don't know the intent of the guy pushing 2k pounds of steel at you in the other lane, either

Go ahead, make a false report. ('nervous looking' as you state down thread)

Enough chicken-littling from folks like you, and dispatchers will stop sending cars, and will kindly explain to you that what they're seeing is legal.

[hopemountain]

5. one reason & not the only reason:

when they go to cop training school all of the practice targets and criminals are black or brown.

[csziggy]

31. Not every time

[heaven05]

50. you're right, it's like 99.9% of targets

although the gun fanciers on this site will give you a movie to prove their point that they aren't.

[Bonx]

6. So you think the cops should shoot more people ?

I'm generally against that.

[yurbud]

22. I don't. I'm just noticing the difference in treatment. The Daily Show did a good skit on this:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

[heaven05]

51. deflection from the point.

figured that would come as an answer by some. Don't want to deal with the obvious point being made about, race, whites, blacks and our friendly police forces response to each.

[nomorenomore08]

103. +1

[onehandle]

9. They're domestic terrorists.

Open carry is terrorism.

When I see a group of these guys, I will call Homeland Security. Not cops.

[IronGate]

24. And HS will just laugh at you and tell you to call the local police.

[haele]

10. Because most of them are probably known personally by the local police.

Most "firearm enthusists" who participate in open carry activism are probably out on the range or at local shooting areas regularly - or are friends of members of the local sherrifs or local gun dealers so they're not going to get hassled for just doing the good ol' boy thing and celebrating their Second Ammendment Pride - real patriots - walking around just like they're having a parade showing the community at large how they're just like a well-ordered militia like in the Constitution - or something like that.

Unlike all those dark, scary low-life gangsta's, pachucos, thugs and their buddies who are acting "awfully suspicious" and usually up to no good. 'Cause being born with the mark of Ham or on the wrong side of the tracks means that they're obviously genetically inclined to carjack, mug old men or snatch grannie's purse, harrass pretty young blonde women, and walk around with drugs and illegal handguns in pants...

Oh, did I miss the smilie there?

Haele

[johnp3907]

11. I think the same thing when I read about the Jordan Miles case in my local paper.

The police officers claimed they mistook the bulge from a Mountain Dew bottle in Miles' pocket for a gun.
http://www.justiceforjordanmiles.com/about-the-campaign/

[2pooped2pop]

16. because it is impossible to mistake a gun for a wallet

where a black man carrying a wallet can easily be mistaken for a gun.
of course

[safeinOhio]

25. Yup

[butterfly77]

39. Kick,kick,kicked&Recommended!

[navarth]

43. Wonderful! and nutrageous. nt

[yurbud]

34. yep

[Mr Dixon]

29. IMO

Not foreseeing a change in this tactic, as someone stated before the cops are probably buddies with these people. I do agree that sooner or later they will shoot each other or an off duty cop. I’m pretty sure something close to the happen last week in GA. As for the minorities don’t hold your breath thinking that the police will protect you that is a luxury reserved for the 1%. I’m willing to bet that if one of these Gun Nuts walks into a high-end store or around a gated community they will be met with force just like any minorities who dare enter.

The biggest shock will be when poor white people get their wake-up call, when the realize race is irrelevant and money is what truly separates us………..That my friend is the only thing that concerns the 1%. Because as long and poor white people keep thing they will one day be rich, that they should receive privilege for not being a minority………..the horse and carrot continues right along.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. Two words: WHITE PRIVILEGE!!

Deny it all you want, DU; denying doesn't make it less true. White skin privilege is real.

If Bundy were black and his followers out there carrying around AKs in public were black or brown, are you going to sit here with a straight face and tell me that they would have been treated the same way--allowed to "protest," threaten the government, kill people? Walk around town with loaded weapons? In groups?

You are a big fact liar if the answer to these questions is yes.

[yurbud]

35. correct. Though that particular privilege is an illusion to pacify poor whites

They think they have some power because they can own and carry guns, but they can do nothing with those guns to improve their own lives (unless they hunt for food).

If the government decides they are a problem at some point, all their guns will at best hold off a couple of cops for a few hours or at most days.

Then they will likely end up dead instead of in prison.

Sort of the way the rich got poor whites to hate blacks and feel superior to them by making them patrollers looking for runaway slaves.

Their white privilege filled their heads with pride, but it didn't fill their kids stomachs with food.

[Stryder]

106. As I tell my overly well armed friends,

If the government truly wants your guns they will simply sift through the rubble.

[yurbud]

129. that's a keeper.

[JI7]

44. if it was a black guy doing that it would never have gotten to the point where BUndy had a group

and it would have ended decades ago. probably on the first day the black guy refused to follow orders. and a chance he would have been killed even following orders.

[heaven05]

55. thank you

for speaking truth to deniers!

[treestar]

87. It's a very good illustration of it

POC have the same Second Amendment rights, but in practice, it's hard to believe.

[nomorenomore08]

105. +4

[butterfly77]

33. K&R..

[JEB]

36. Birds of a feather.

Fucking idiots with guns. White, bigots with guns. Unemployable (except as cops) fools.

[marble falls]

40. GOOD question. Needs to be answered, too.

[nyabingi]

46. Being white has all sorts of advantages,

from being able to openly carry guns and be still seen as non-threatening and "law-abiding", to aggressively confronting federal officers with loaded weapons and not being fired upon or arrested. To always be given the benefit of the doubt, there's privilege.

I'm seriously thinking it may be time for communities of color and whites who are against this rise in white supremacist intimidation start forming their own gun clubs and learning to shoot straight (including myself, and I've never owned a gun in my life). These insane right-wingers are hell-bent on having a chance to redeem themselves through a second Civil War and we'd better recognize what's happening before it's too late - the US government is obviously not going to do anything about them.

[heaven05]

61. I tend to agree

Last edited Tue Jul 8, 2014, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

with your analysis/solution to white privilege enjoyed by the open carry bigots afraid of that 'brown tyrant' in the white house. And I really would like to see how many whites would stand with the "communities of color" law abiding citizens standing up for their open carry right. Probably would be another 'Rosewood'. That would be very informative, nonetheless.

[nyabingi]

150. The gun nuts hate liberal and left-leaning whites

just as much as they hate people of color, non-Christians, the LGBT community, and people from south of the border so we all need to be vigilant.

I hope I can live the entirety of my life without having to physically harm someone, but if it came down to it I'll have to go down fighting to protect my loved ones (and to avoid the fate of the people of Rosewood). Hopefully it'll never come to that, but seeing the way the fires are being stoked by the Hannity's and Limbaugh's of the nation, it definitely puts that thought in my head.

[JDPriestly]

53. Excellent question. This is one of the best OPs I have seen in a long time.

[aikoaiko]

54. They generally don't point their weapons at police trying to engage them.

And they havent been mistaken for an armed serial rapist.

And it probably helps being white, too.

[valerief]

62. I'd like to see the world rid of idiots. I've had a lifetime of them. nt

[WatermelonRat]

63. I suspect it's because most open carriers would have their guns holstered

whereas a wallet mistaken for a gun would be in hand.

[heaven05]

64. really???

uhhh huh.

[WatermelonRat]

73. A person who is holding a gun will seem a more immediate threat

than one with a holstered gun. Particularly if in an area where open carry is legal. Seeing someone with a holstered firearm would probably put an officer on guard, but it wouldn't trigger the same sort of snap decision.

[heaven05]

75. yeah, there's

a lot of that "snap decision" stuff going on with unarmed black and brown people these days, which is one of the underlying substantive points in this OP. Yeah, 'white privilege' gives an open carry idiot a leg up, any black 'open carrying' in an open carry state/place WILL be accosted by 'peace officers' after hundreds of 911 calls of a suspicious person with a gun!!!! The fear dripping from their lips..... Period.

[WatermelonRat]

79. I'm getting the impression that you think I reject the role of racial bias in police shootings.

I assure you, that is not the case.

[Inkfreak]

71. That and cops have an amazing ability to shoot minorities first, ask questions later. (nt)

[nomorenomore08]

107. In part because of the racist idiots out there who think all black/brown people are a threat

and will therefore defend aggressive police action - even without justification - against them.

Because, gee golly, what was Officer _____ supposed to do with that guy looking all scary at him?

[X_Digger]

97. Shh, don't bring up "reality"-based answers. You're harshing the vibe, man. n/t

[Ecumenist]

101. HOW THE HELL do you mistake a 2 DIMENSIONAL WALLET for a GUN??!!

I want to know where this comes from and don't worry, I'll wait.

[WatermelonRat]

110. With darkness, a tense situation, and training to instantly react when you see someone suddenly

draw something from their pocket.

[Ecumenist]

131. YEAH, okay but funnily enough, these people who've been shot for pulling a wallet from their

pockets, (USUALLY SHOUTING THAT IT'S A WALLET--how do I know, you might ask? I'M BLACK AND HAVE WITNESSED THIS HAPPEN ON TWO OCCASIONS! BOTH times DURING MIDDAY and one person was hit with a "STUN GUN" and one wasn't. WANNA GUESS WHAT COLOR THE LUCKY STUN GUN VICTIM WAS?), are OFTEN BLACK, BROWN, RED & YELLOW. Want to know about yet anothersituation that convinces me your reply was simplistic, to say the least...I saw another situation where the other person was white, had been BEATING his wife IN PUBLIC at a beach here in California and was threatening to kill her while attempting to CHOKE her.... This second assh@le was out on bail for assaulting his wife a week before and actually threatened to attack the cop and the "wallet" he pulled from his left side pocket was a BOWIE KNIFE....He wasn't stunned, though he was INDEED an imminent threat to his wife, the people trying to help her AND the cops. WONDER why that was? Can you guess? The saddest thing is that this is NOT an isolated set of incidents....

[noiretextatique]

66. police enforce racism

and always have, and always will. it is a part of their job.
http://www.theroot.com/photos/2013/06/unarmed_black_men_shot_by_police_20_sad_stories.html

[heaven05]

83. yep

been there.

[billh58]

70. K&R

Great question, and the answer is obvious to those who do not worship at the altar of the holy gun.

[maced666]

72. 25% of police officers serving in 2007 were of racial/ethnic minority

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=71
Many/most I assume serving with/beside in cars with white officers.
Many/most reading some of the replies to this thread and thinking perception is not anything like what they experience every day.
But, there are are enough knee jerk cop 'experts' to keep each other busy, play amongst yourselves, nothing like like-minds banging into each other.

[heaven05]

77. you can deflect the point

with your 'knowledge'. It doesn't stop the fact that I go to any police brutality sites, just google, don't even ask for a link, most cases of brutality are white officers shooting, beating, killing minorities and black women lately. Do people like you who won't even address the question as to whether there is white police brutality against minorities on a large scale who deflect the point with your .gov links think that we don't see what's going on in our streets every day? Do you really believe all people are that stupid all the time?

[dilby]

80. Probably because they are not in the middle of arresting them.

Also it probably helps that the Open Carry people do not act hostile when approached by cops.

[nomorenomore08]

108. But what is perceived as "hostile" behavior is partly influenced by racial stereotyping.

One possible reason for members of minority groups disproportionately being shot by the cops.

[treestar]

84. Well obviously they aren't going to rob the place!

They're white!

[Marrah_G]

88. Can you imagine a bunch of young black males sauntering into Walmart with Bushmasters?

I bet the police would be there in a second.

[Eleanors38]

115. Well, they marched into the Cali Cap. in the late 60s.

Cali got some gun control, then.

[Anansi1171]

132. Of course they did!

Again, let's see 100 Black Men open carry through the south's suburban enclaves, and we will see the principled stand of conservatives. From Sugarland to Lakeland - nobodies fooling anybody.

[Eleanors38]

138. Gun-control was always about racism. We agree.

I can't advocate what blacks should do with guns, but perhaps the scenario you suggest should be tried. Are you black, and are you contemplating this? I appreciate this frank discussion.

[Anansi1171]

141. I am black, not contemplating this as I am a father...

...and a combat vet. Thats two strikes. Strike three would be overt political activism.

So no, I am not seriously considering a 100 black men open carry through an upper-class predominately white neighborhood because, as per the OP, I do not trust that my free exercise will be respected or even permitted.

The whole rationale behind such enclaves is to keep blacks out. What did George Zimmerman ask, "what are you doing HERE?"

[heaven05]

119. with armored vehicles, backup up the wazoo and

a desire to shoot, more than likely.

[NutmegYankee]

113. I believe it's because the gun is slung on a shoulder or holstered.

There is no immediate threat to an officer if the hands are not on the gun. The "accidental" shootings that occur usually involve jumpy cops mistaking a random object in hand for a gun in the hand. Items like wallets or remotes. Many of these shootings occur at night when darkness hinders an accurate assessment of objects, such as the NYC wallet murder. In the case of the Wii remote, the victim was white and answering the door. I suspect the open carry fanatics do their demonstrations in daylight only in open spaces.

I put accidental in quotes because the training police receive to treat citizens all like suspects and their "war" mentality seems to be behind most of these shootings.

[JVS]

116. Carry vs. brandish is something that is worth looking into.

And I suspect that the open carry activists are very careful to make sure that what they're doing does not qualify as brandishing, lest they be charged.

[NutmegYankee]

118. That is exactly the fine line they are walking.

From the pictures, these are people who are basically walking trolls. They stay just inside the rules but do everything in their power to upset and piss off people. I've seen that mindset before in anti-abortion protesters.

[KentuckyWoman]

142. Nothing more dangerous than a black male with a wallet.

Well they don't really need the wallet to be considered super dangerous. Just see one in public is scary enough.


apparently,...........