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Desmond Tutu plea for 'assisted dying' before historic Lords debate
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/12/desmond-tutu-assisted-dying-right-to-die-nelson-mandela<snip>
Desmond Tutu, one of the world's most eminent religious leaders, has made an extraordinary intervention in the debate over assisted death, by backing the right of the terminally ill to end their lives in dignity.
Writing in the Observer, the 82-year-old retired Anglican archbishop, revered as the "moral conscience" of South Africa, says that laws that prevent people being helped to end their lives are an affront to those affected and their families.
He also condemns as "disgraceful" the treatment of his old friend Nelson Mandela, who was kept alive through numerous painful hospitalisations and forced to endure a photo stunt with politicians shortly before his death at 95.
Tutu, who calls for a "mind shift" in the right to die debate, writes: "I have been fortunate to spend my life working for dignity for the living. Now I wish to apply my mind to the issue of dignity for the dying. I revere the sanctity of life – but not at any cost."
MORE at link
11 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
= new reply since forum marked as read
What he did or what he was about, I have no knowledge, but it was BIG news when he got shot. Nearly died, IIRC.
Pardon me, but I'm not a Catholic or anything like that. Never understood them and it's too late for me to catch up now. I don't get into fights on the whole things.
All I know is religion of some sort or other is another system of control, IMHO. They outlast governments and can pull them down whenever they want, so they must be dealt with as the powerful entities that they are.
It's time for a major pushback in this country toward secular government and education before we lose it altogether. At times, I feel it is a losing battle, but where I live we are very secular and public minded. It may not stay that way.
I don't want to insult you if the RCC has personal meaning to you, but I'm not into that and don't try to tell anyone what to think online. I see it as NOMB, and my life is NOTB, either.
The first attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II took place on Wednesday, 13 May 1981, in St. Peter's Square at Vatican City. The Pope was shot and wounded by Mehmet Ali Ağca while he was entering the square. The Pope was struck four times, and suffered severe blood loss.
Ağca was apprehended immediately, and later sentenced to life in prison by an Italian court. The Pope later forgave Ağca for the assassination attempt.[1]
He was pardoned by Italian president Carlo Azeglio Ciampi at the Pope's request and was deported to Turkey in June 2000.
More details:
Ağca fired four shots at 17:17[3] with a 9mm Browning Hi-Power semi-automatic pistol, and critically wounded him. He fled the scene as the crowd was in shock and disposed of the pistol by throwing it under a truck, but was grabbed by Vatican security chief Camillo Cibin,[4] a nun, and several spectators who prevented him from either firing more shots or escaping and was arrested. Four bullets hit John Paul II, two of them lodging in his lower intestine, the others hitting his left index finger and right arm; the Pope was immediately rushed to the hospital while the authorities combed the site for evidence. Two bystanders were also hit by stray assassin's bullets; Ann Odre, of Buffalo, New York, was struck in the chest while Rose Hill, of Jamaica, was slightly wounded in the arm. Çelik panicked and fled without setting off his bomb or opening fire...
Ağca was sentenced, in July 1981, to life imprisonment in Italy for the assassination attempt, but was pardoned by president Carlo Azeglio Ciampi in June 2000 at the Pope's request. He was then extradited to Turkey, where he was imprisoned for the 1979 murder of left-wing journalist Abdi İpekçi and two bank raids carried out in the 1970s. Despite a plea for early release in November 2004, a Turkish court announced that he would not be eligible for release until 2010. Nonetheless he was released on parole on 12 January 2006.[5] However, on 20 January 2006, the Turkish Supreme Court ruled that his time served in Italy could not be deducted from his Turkish sentence and he was returned to jail.[6] Ağca was released from prison on 18 January 2010, after almost 29 years behind bars.
Following the shooting, Pope John Paul II asked people to "pray for my brother [Ağca] ... whom I have sincerely forgiven."[8] In 1983, he and Ağca met and spoke privately at the prison where Ağca was being held. Ağca reportedly kissed the Pope's ring at the conclusion of their visit. The Pope was also in touch with Ağca's family over the years, meeting his mother in 1987 and his brother a decade later.
Although Ağca was quoted as saying that "to me [the Pope] was the incarnation of all that is capitalism", and attempting to murder him, Ağca developed a friendship with the pontiff. In early February 2005, during the Pope's illness, Ağca sent a letter to the Pope wishing him well.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt&printable=yes
Appears there are many suspicions about why he was targeted. A lot of intrigue going on?
I didn't know either that there was more than one attempt on him, but the page refers to another one:
Juan María Fernández Krohn (born ca. 1948, Spain) is a former Catholic priest and former Spanish lawyer who tried to assassinate Pope John Paul II in 1982...[1]
On 12 May 1982, he assaulted Pope John Paul II with a bayonet in Fátima, Portugal. It is unclear whether he managed to wound the Pope or not.[4][5][6] During his trial, he said that he was opposed to the reforms of Vatican II and that he believed Pope John Paul II had been in league with the Soviet Union and even was a secret Communist agent trying to corrupt the Vatican.[citation needed]
He received a six-year sentence, though he served only three years,[7] and then was expelled from Portugal, after which he moved to Belgium. By then, he had abandoned the priesthood...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Mar%C3%ADa_Fern%C3%A1ndez_y_Krohn
He had been very health minded and athletic but got sick:
An Irish Independent article in the 1980s labelled John Paul II the keep-fit pope.
However, after over twenty-five years as pope, two assassination attempts (one of which resulted in severe physical injury to the Pope), by Mehmet Ali Ağca and a number of cancer scares, John Paul's physical health declined. In 2001, he was diagnosed as suffering from Parkinson's disease.[207] International observers had suspected this for some time, but it was only publicly acknowledged by the Vatican in 2003. Despite difficulty speaking more than a few sentences at a time, trouble hearing, and severe osteoarthrosis, he continued to tour the world although rarely walking in public.
And eventually died:
On 2 April 2005, Pope Saint John Paul II died in his private apartment at 21:37 CEST (19:37 UTC) of heart failure from profound hypotension and complete circulatory collapse from septic shock, 46 days short of his 85th birthday.
It was this John Paul:
The guy before him was also named John Paul, and the names seem to recycle. But he wasn't liberal or progressive, would not be Democrat.
Sorry again, don't know this stuff. I do not understand all of this but the RCC has 1.2 billion members.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church
It's mostly unknown to me other than what I hear. All the people I know who were brought up in the RCC have left it, so I'm certainly no one to talk about it. And I only recalled it because this man's being shot and his death was big news.
Maybe you're thinking of the John Paul before this one. He was made Pope August 26th, 1978 and died September 28th, 1978.
John Paul I was found dead sitting up in his bed shortly before dawn on 28 September 1978,[32] just 33 days into his papacy. The Vatican reported that the 65-year-old pope most likely died the previous night of a heart attack. It has been claimed that the Vatican had altered some of the details of the discovery of the death to avoid possible unseemliness[33][34] in that he was discovered by Sister Vincenza Taffarel, who was a nun.[35] Inconsistent statements were made relating to who found John Paul I's body, the time when he was found, and what papers were in his hand. These various issues led to a number of conspiracy theories concerning his death. The Vatican has not investigated the claims and does not profess belief in any possible deceit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I
That is weird. But I was not into the news much then.
I think the Catholic church, and as I said I don't know them, believe in natural processes without much medicine, but some really do work on keeping people alive. And the history of the RCC is full of political purposes.
As I said, no wish to offend, but I don't believe they should be able to influence the government here, nor should the other dominations do so. That is certainly not the history of many other countries.
So that's all I could find for you. Heck, I try not to think about the RCC.
I thought they all died in office, so was surprised Ratzinger left as I thought Popes were elected for life. See, I don't know much about them, and they have all these different groups, just makes my eyes glaze over.
Edit: As far as JP2, just think, gutshot and then stabbed with a bayonet! Some people really did want him dead. I mean, wow, just wow. Not sure about the first guy, but despite how far off he was with Democratic values, the second guy thought he was liberal?
Ağca was apprehended immediately, and later sentenced to life in prison by an Italian court. The Pope later forgave Ağca for the assassination attempt.[1]
He was pardoned by Italian president Carlo Azeglio Ciampi at the Pope's request and was deported to Turkey in June 2000.
More details:
Ağca fired four shots at 17:17[3] with a 9mm Browning Hi-Power semi-automatic pistol, and critically wounded him. He fled the scene as the crowd was in shock and disposed of the pistol by throwing it under a truck, but was grabbed by Vatican security chief Camillo Cibin,[4] a nun, and several spectators who prevented him from either firing more shots or escaping and was arrested. Four bullets hit John Paul II, two of them lodging in his lower intestine, the others hitting his left index finger and right arm; the Pope was immediately rushed to the hospital while the authorities combed the site for evidence. Two bystanders were also hit by stray assassin's bullets; Ann Odre, of Buffalo, New York, was struck in the chest while Rose Hill, of Jamaica, was slightly wounded in the arm. Çelik panicked and fled without setting off his bomb or opening fire...
Ağca was sentenced, in July 1981, to life imprisonment in Italy for the assassination attempt, but was pardoned by president Carlo Azeglio Ciampi in June 2000 at the Pope's request. He was then extradited to Turkey, where he was imprisoned for the 1979 murder of left-wing journalist Abdi İpekçi and two bank raids carried out in the 1970s. Despite a plea for early release in November 2004, a Turkish court announced that he would not be eligible for release until 2010. Nonetheless he was released on parole on 12 January 2006.[5] However, on 20 January 2006, the Turkish Supreme Court ruled that his time served in Italy could not be deducted from his Turkish sentence and he was returned to jail.[6] Ağca was released from prison on 18 January 2010, after almost 29 years behind bars.
Following the shooting, Pope John Paul II asked people to "pray for my brother [Ağca] ... whom I have sincerely forgiven."[8] In 1983, he and Ağca met and spoke privately at the prison where Ağca was being held. Ağca reportedly kissed the Pope's ring at the conclusion of their visit. The Pope was also in touch with Ağca's family over the years, meeting his mother in 1987 and his brother a decade later.
Although Ağca was quoted as saying that "to me [the Pope] was the incarnation of all that is capitalism", and attempting to murder him, Ağca developed a friendship with the pontiff. In early February 2005, during the Pope's illness, Ağca sent a letter to the Pope wishing him well.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt&printable=yes
Appears there are many suspicions about why he was targeted. A lot of intrigue going on?
I didn't know either that there was more than one attempt on him, but the page refers to another one:
Juan María Fernández Krohn (born ca. 1948, Spain) is a former Catholic priest and former Spanish lawyer who tried to assassinate Pope John Paul II in 1982...[1]
On 12 May 1982, he assaulted Pope John Paul II with a bayonet in Fátima, Portugal. It is unclear whether he managed to wound the Pope or not.[4][5][6] During his trial, he said that he was opposed to the reforms of Vatican II and that he believed Pope John Paul II had been in league with the Soviet Union and even was a secret Communist agent trying to corrupt the Vatican.[citation needed]
He received a six-year sentence, though he served only three years,[7] and then was expelled from Portugal, after which he moved to Belgium. By then, he had abandoned the priesthood...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Mar%C3%ADa_Fern%C3%A1ndez_y_Krohn
He had been very health minded and athletic but got sick:
An Irish Independent article in the 1980s labelled John Paul II the keep-fit pope.
However, after over twenty-five years as pope, two assassination attempts (one of which resulted in severe physical injury to the Pope), by Mehmet Ali Ağca and a number of cancer scares, John Paul's physical health declined. In 2001, he was diagnosed as suffering from Parkinson's disease.[207] International observers had suspected this for some time, but it was only publicly acknowledged by the Vatican in 2003. Despite difficulty speaking more than a few sentences at a time, trouble hearing, and severe osteoarthrosis, he continued to tour the world although rarely walking in public.
And eventually died:
On 2 April 2005, Pope Saint John Paul II died in his private apartment at 21:37 CEST (19:37 UTC) of heart failure from profound hypotension and complete circulatory collapse from septic shock, 46 days short of his 85th birthday.
It was this John Paul:
The guy before him was also named John Paul, and the names seem to recycle. But he wasn't liberal or progressive, would not be Democrat.
Sorry again, don't know this stuff. I do not understand all of this but the RCC has 1.2 billion members.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church
It's mostly unknown to me other than what I hear. All the people I know who were brought up in the RCC have left it, so I'm certainly no one to talk about it. And I only recalled it because this man's being shot and his death was big news.
Maybe you're thinking of the John Paul before this one. He was made Pope August 26th, 1978 and died September 28th, 1978.
John Paul I was found dead sitting up in his bed shortly before dawn on 28 September 1978,[32] just 33 days into his papacy. The Vatican reported that the 65-year-old pope most likely died the previous night of a heart attack. It has been claimed that the Vatican had altered some of the details of the discovery of the death to avoid possible unseemliness[33][34] in that he was discovered by Sister Vincenza Taffarel, who was a nun.[35] Inconsistent statements were made relating to who found John Paul I's body, the time when he was found, and what papers were in his hand. These various issues led to a number of conspiracy theories concerning his death. The Vatican has not investigated the claims and does not profess belief in any possible deceit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I
That is weird. But I was not into the news much then.
I think the Catholic church, and as I said I don't know them, believe in natural processes without much medicine, but some really do work on keeping people alive. And the history of the RCC is full of political purposes.
As I said, no wish to offend, but I don't believe they should be able to influence the government here, nor should the other dominations do so. That is certainly not the history of many other countries.
So that's all I could find for you. Heck, I try not to think about the RCC.
I thought they all died in office, so was surprised Ratzinger left as I thought Popes were elected for life. See, I don't know much about them, and they have all these different groups, just makes my eyes glaze over.
Edit: As far as JP2, just think, gutshot and then stabbed with a bayonet! Some people really did want him dead. I mean, wow, just wow. Not sure about the first guy, but despite how far off he was with Democratic values, the second guy thought he was liberal?
