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Wed Jul 16, 2014, 04:51 AM

Pelosi and Reid: Call for national repudiation of the Confederacy

Have to share this GREAT idea. Pelosi and Reid need to call for a joint resolution to support the Union of American states, not the Confederate States of America, and repudiate Republicans (and Democrats) who would support the slave-holding confederacy over the United States that Lincoln (for better or worse) held together.

Here's the reason for the resolution: 37% of Mississippi Republicans would back the Confederacy in a civil war.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/37-percent-of-mississippi-gopers-would-back-confederates-in-civil-war

A new Public Policy Polling survey found that 37 percent of Republicans who voted in the Mississippi primary runoff election between incumbent Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS) and state Sen. Chris McDaniel (R) said they would back the Confederate side if there was another Civil War.

The poll, obtained by TPM, is full of goodies for poll geeks. Of those polled, including Democrats and Republicans, 50 percent said they would support the United States while 29 percent said they would support the Confederate States of America.

Broken down by party affiliation, 82 percent of Democrats said they would support the United States while just 9 percent said they would support the Confederate States of America. Among Republicans, 37 percent said they would support the Confederate States of America while 41 percent said they would support the United States. Another 21 percent of Republicans said they weren't sure while 9 percent of Democrats said they weren't sure.

PPP's poll was conducted among 501 Republican primary voters from July 10 to 13. All those surveyed said they voted in the Republican primary runoff for U.S. Senate. The margin of error was plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.


Sadly, in Mississippi, even 9% of Democrats would as well. Wonder if there are poll numbers from other states.

THEN I read the comments after this bit of info.

The lovely and talented bluestatedon, whoever s/he may be, suggested this in the comments section at TPM:

If the Democrats in D.C. had any brains or balls, Reid and Pelosi would introduce a joint resolution that openly repudiates and castigates the pro-Confederacy tilt among Mississippi Republicans. The purpose of such a move would be totally symbolic in a nakedly partisan way that would generate a great deal of attention, and none of it would be good for the Republican Party.

The advantages of introducing a well-crafted resolution accrue regardless of what the GOPers in Congress do. Boehner would very likely never allow such a resolution to come to a vote in the House, which would simply provide the Democratic Party with the opportunity to rightly and loudly accuse the Republican Party as a whole of sympathizing with seditionists and traitors within its own ranks, and more importantly, communicate this information to the minority members of its own base.

If, by some miracle, Republicans actually voted for such a measure, it would deepen the existing fissures between establishment Republicans and the teabaggers who are currently running the ideological show in the GOP.


It's time for liberals to make a stand for liberal values in the House. This could also be a "teaching moment" for Americans, many of whom have been brainwashed by homeschooling religious hate propaganda, as well as brittle academics who can't find the pulse of history, with facetious arguments that the Civil War was about economics, as tho no humans were involved.

Slavery was economics for every nation that practiced it, and, even more to the point - if you were a slave or an abolitionist at that time, no matter what the privileged elite may say, the civil war was about ending slavery in this nation. History isn't just about those wielding power, even tho they think it is.

It was NEVER about "states rights" as some ethereal political concept because the state right that was at issue was slavery. So, a state's right argument needs to be recognized for what it is: a pro-slavery, white supremacist argument.

Then, let Boehner and other Republican members of the House discuss this issue. Ask if they agree with Republicans on record who've stated "slavery wasn't so bad..."

Republicans do this crap like "impeachment" all the time. It's time for Democrats to fight back with an issue of unity - the Union, not the former Confederate states that make up the bulk of support for the Republican Party. A diverse union - not uniform, but united.

I don't mean union with Republicans - at least not those who control the party now.

GO AFTER REPUBLICANS on the floor of the House and ask why they tout state's rights but take so much federal money - Republicans need to acknowledge that the Federal govt. is essential to their lives because they refuse to govern responsibly and raise taxes to pay for things their states need and, therefore, liberals are paying for conservative irresponsibility - or conservatives are simply violating human rights by denying health care to poor people in their states.

The era of two parties who have disagreements but then kiss-kiss after the laws are passed is over and has been since the Bush Jr. years. It's only gotten worse and it will only get worse because the tea baggers are putting candidates in the House. So, time for Democratic politicians to school them on their responsibility to the Union and tell them to make their support for the Union public and on the record.

Well, I'd support this.

21 replies, 4013 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pelosi and Reid: Call for national repudiation of the Confederacy (Original post)
RainDog Jul 2014 OP
maindawg Jul 2014 #1
RainDog Jul 2014 #2
NobodyHere Jul 2014 #12
conservaphobe Jul 2014 #17
grahamhgreen Jul 2014 #3
el_bryanto Jul 2014 #4
RainDog Jul 2014 #5
rdking647 Jul 2014 #6
RainDog Jul 2014 #9
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2014 #7
RainDog Jul 2014 #8
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2014 #10
RainDog Jul 2014 #11
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2014 #14
RainDog Jul 2014 #15
bigtree Jul 2014 #13
NightWatcher Jul 2014 #16
RainDog Jul 2014 #18
Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #19
RainDog Jul 2014 #20
RainDog Jul 2014 #21

Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 07:10 AM

1. Long over due

 

I have been frustrated by the dichotomy Robert E Lee a hero ? Stone Wall Jackson? These men were traitors. They caused the death of hundreds of thousands along with billions worth of destruction. They did so , with the intent of denying millions of human beings their freedom.
Its not like they had any justifiable reason. This is good news today.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 07:42 AM

2. Sadly, it is

We are appalled by Germans who now romanticize Nazism and we should have no less disgust when politicians dog whistle to Confederates.

We need to acknowledge history - and the history of this nation is that white people have been the aggressors against others in any meaningful context of sanctioned action in this nation.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:29 PM

12. If your state seceded from the Union

 

Would you fight for your state or for the US?

If you fought for the Union would you be willing to bomb whatever state and town you're from?

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Response to NobodyHere (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:24 AM

17. The U.S. and for the answer to your other question: in a heartbeat. nt

 

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 07:43 AM

3. Great idea. Force them to defend the Confederacy.

 

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 08:15 AM

4. I really like this idea on a moral level - not sure on a practical level

It could be positive by putting Republicans on the defensive, but they'd say about a million times "Why can't we focus on the issues of today" and southern whites might go even deeper into the Republican embrace.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 08:27 AM

5. The overwhelming majority of Democrats were anti-Confederacy

The southern whites who are going to be offended by this are not going to vote for Democrats anyway.

Since so many of the tea bagger members of the House are coming from areas that are expressing white supremacist sentiments - I think it's an important issue to bring to the notice of the voting public.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 08:48 AM

6. texas has a confererate memorial on the grounds of the capital

even here in austin theres a street names robert e lee

in my view its a monument and a street named for traitors.

the confederacy was nothing more than a traitorous bunch of racists who fought to enslave their fellow humans. the street should be renamed and the monuments pulled down,melted down and recast as a peace memorial

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Response to rdking647 (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 10:42 PM

9. what gets me

is confederate flags. I just saw Texas has to allow a confederate flag license plate for sale, by court ruling.

I can't imagine Germany would view a nazi flag on a license plate as a matter of free speech. hate speech, yes. But our nations' laws and attitudes are very different in response to atrocities that are part of history.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 09:21 AM

7. Better idea - a resolution repudiating the multiple violations of treaties with Native Americans.

If they'd like to do something useful.....

There's no need for a resolution on any aspect of the Civil War. The Union won in 1865. Don't waste time on repudiating the Confederacy in 2014.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:16 AM

8. I think both would be useful

the U.S. needs something like the South African truth and reconciliation hearings.

The reason this is mentioned is directly related to the largest voting bloc for Republicans in the U.S. - who were polled on whether or not they were, essentially, still treasonous bastards. More than a third in that survey qualified.

I don't think it's wasting time when conservatives make Confederacy arguments all the time, the entire Southern Strategy of the Republican Party has centered on racism, as Atwater, its creator, noted.

This is still an issue. If you know anything about American history, you know the slaves were basically left to the political whims of their former masters and slavery just started calling itself other names... Jim Crow, etc. All "perfectly" legal because racists voted to make the laws, just as they did with slavery. They created systems that criminalized people on the basis of the color of their skin. They continued to do this until... still doing it, actually.

No.

The civil war was not settled with the end of fighting. If you look at history, one war rarely settles issues destroying old power structures. The revolutionary war isn't finished either, as far as it all goes. Our constitution was created to protect corporations, not people, and the bill of rights was the cost for getting corporate protection as a form of govt.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:25 PM

10. Attempting to make 2014 Republicans take sides on a 150 year old war accomplishes exactly nothing

Those who still favor states-rights and sympathize with the Confederate cause will continue to do so. Those who don't still won't. It's no different than those who continue to insist on apologies from Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor; not one living member of their government had a thing to do with it.

Pelosi & Reid can do many more useful things living in the present.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:28 PM

11. Thanks for sharing your opinion

We disagree about the value of this idea.

I believe there are actually many walking and chewing gum at the same time moments that go on in Congress, tho.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:38 PM

14. ...and thanks for sharing yours

I'll tell you what: if you want to make Republicans take sides on an old idea and have it mean something, perhaps we could do this; Pelosi & Reid could loudly demand that the Equal Rights Amendment be voted upon by Congress and sent back to the states (no, I'm neither kidding nor snarking at you).

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:52 PM

15. I go for that

I'd go for Democrats attacking every single issue that Republicans have demonstrated their animosity toward equality.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed Jul 16, 2014, 11:37 PM

13. Lee eventually signed the loyalty oath - The Confederacy was repudiated by their defeat.

On May 29, 1865, President Andrew Johnson issued a Proclamation of Amnesty and Pardon to persons who had participated in the rebellion against the United States. There were fourteen excepted classes, though, and members of those classes had to make special application to the President.

Lee sent an application to Grant and wrote to President Johnson on June 13, 1865:

Being excluded from the provisions of amnesty & pardon contained in the proclamation of the 29th Ulto; I hereby apply for the benefits, & full restoration of all rights & privileges extended to those included in its terms. I graduated at the Mil. Academy at West Point in June 1829. Resigned from the U.S. Army April '61. Was a General in the Confederate Army, & included in the surrender of the Army of N. Va. 9 April '65.

Lee signed his Amnesty Oath on October 2, 1865, but was not restored to full citizenship in his lifetime.

On October 2, 1865, the same day that Lee was inaugurated as president of Washington College in Lexington, Virginia, he signed his Amnesty Oath, thereby complying fully with the provision of Johnson's proclamation. But Lee was not pardoned, nor was his citizenship restored. And the fact that he had submitted an amnesty oath at all was soon lost to history.

More than a hundred years later, in 1970, an archivist at the National Archives discovered Lee's Amnesty Oath among State Department records (reported in Prologue, Winter 1970). Apparently Secretary of State William H. Seward had given Lee's application to a friend as a souvenir, and the State Department had pigeonholed the oath.


http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/spring/piece-lee.html

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:22 AM

16. I'm glad they're working on some relavent shit

Like a war that was fought nearly 150 years ago.

What's next, finally settling on the fact that burning witches was probably an overreaction?

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:27 AM

18. You miss the point

about political ratfucking.

I don't think you actually have to worry about the democrats doing anything of the sort, however, so wipe the sweat from your fevered brow.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:33 AM

19. How about a resolution to repudiate the 25% of people who think the sun revolves around the Earth?

A joint congressional resolution by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi could go a long way towards setting people straight on all kinds of issues.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:58 AM

20. If that's what you want

go for it.

Not interesting to me, tho.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:04 AM

21. I think a resolution acknowledging evolution is fact, tho, would be good

and I would DEFINITELY support something like that in Congress because I would love to see all the Republicans squirm when they have to decide whether to uphold the stupidity of their base support or go with science.

So, maybe you're on to something, you just need to change the focus to something that's actually still a problem in American society - which is the denial of science fact if it inconveniences a religion or a corporation.

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