General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsArguments for a 4-hour workday
http://www.iww.org/history/library/misc/Bekken2000We've had the 8 hour workday for generations now. (At least in principle). With increases in productivity and acknowledgement that wages for most workers have remained stagnant since the 70's, isn't it time to demand shorter hours with our much delayed wage increases? Why not make Friday's a half-day?
And while we're at it, maybe we should re-appreciate what it took to get an 8 hour workday:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Lunches no longer paid. I see that a lot especially in non profits which a few of my friends work for. I hear that many are working 30 hours a week. So maybe eventually we will work 20 hour weeks.....I would be thrilled that is for sure. However, I would be happy with 32 hours a week as 4 8-hour days. I am so sick of the 40 hour work week. It is too much. Last year, we had Furlows....everyone in my office was mad working Monday through Thursday......me and a few fellow colleagues were thrilled.....I loved it to be honest. My paycheck was only about a couple hundred lower every two weeks....well worth it especially since it was the Summer.
FSogol
(45,439 posts)Weekend removes stress far more than after work hours...however, practically full day off on friday will not be possible as it will be 3 days long weekend and many people will complain that they just missed Thursday evening and now have to wait for monday morning to get their work done..A less hour Friday..like 9-3 instead of 9-5 would be great outcome..
KansDem
(28,498 posts)With changes in society over the last several decades, it simply isn't possible for a two-income family to tend to the chores required for household maintenance like tending to yard work and household chores on the weekend. Such considerations cannot be undertaken during the traditional weekend without feeling rushed and exhausted come Sunday evening.
Make the weekend three days so there'll be at least one day to relax...
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)on 15 hours a week, 20 should be able to give us all the basics AND a few extras. It would also take care of the unemployment crisis too. It would have to be full time pay indexed to inflation too.
TheGoodNews
(48 posts)I should've also mentioned that there is an actual campaign for a 4-hour workday:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1019335
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)First of all, back in the 1950's it was widely assumed that we'd have a 20 hour workweek by the end of the twentieth century.
It hasn't happened, other than with actual part time work.
Another thing to consider is professions like nursing, doctors, or teachers. Are we going to go to a 20 hour week for school? Really? Which is not to say that teaching can't be vastly overhauled, but not everyone works in an office.
Attorneys. Especially new associates or whatever they call them in law firms. Does anyone realistically think they'll be able to work even a 40 hour week, let alone less?
Please don't misunderstand me. I think the standard workweek should be no more than 30 hours, but we have to make a lot of changes to get that in place.
I have some thoughts on that.
First of all, if we drastically reduced class size down to the research-backed optimum of 15 per class, time use would be much more efficient.
Secondly, school can be open all day, and before and after; you just don't have to have the same teacher on duty that whole time.
It WOULD require a vast investment in staffing, of course.
Which I am all for.
Why can't we? If we have to make a lot of changes, let's make a lot of changes.
TheGoodNews
(48 posts)Basic Income could be used to help augment a reduced workday/work week for many hourly wage earners.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)In service-related businesses, we now expect the convenience of being able to get what we want whenever we want it.
I worked in banking for a few years. Shortening the work day, or even working more people in 4-hour shifts wouldn't be practical in terms of serving the customers. My company shortened hours in a couple of our less-busy branches, and the local customers were not pleased, to say the least.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I may be a little off, but they didn't open until 10 am and closed at 3pm. Banks staying open until 5pm on a Friday was a huge step forward.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Banks in my town stayed open until 9 p.m. on Friday nights. I lived in a rural community, and Friday nights "were when the farmers came to town." Of course, those were also the days before ATMs, automatic deposits, and on-line banking. It's theoretically possible to shorten banking hours now, but I think people wouldn't accept it.
I also rememer that grocery stores used to close early on Saturdays, and not be open at all on Sundays. We always had to make sure we had enough millk to last til Monday a.m. Grocery store hours increased to meet their customer's needs.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Not to mention it's financially impossible. All those companies are cutting workers' hours are cutting their pay as well.
A 4-hour workday would be essentially half-pay. Not a tenable solution. Now, I think laws like mandatory vacation and sick leave for all workers, full or part-time, would be much better. And let them use.
Another thread talked about people who have been targeted for retaliation because they blew the whistle on something. We need true, enforceable protections for actions like that, otherwise people will refuse to speak up.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)You are free to pursue the work load you want, and can attain any level of success you desire.
Wish granted,....... there IS such a thing as the 4 hours work day, it's called "part time", and it's waiting for you every single day.
If the idea is to work 4 hours and be paid for 8, there is a road to that solution as well. Start a business,..... over pay everybody.....use the business model to spread the word that "profits" are evil and inhumane, drive it into the ground and financially crash and burn.
I have always wanted much more than the minimum, but not everybody does. The rub is coming from people wanting more, but not willing to invest the effort.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)where is this Utopia you speak of?
Not here.
The economic mobility statistics totally discredit your talking point which, bye the way, is also tossed out by right wingers regularly.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)The Utopia I speak of was not "Utopia" when I started out, it was a living hell for many many long years, it's taken me the better part of twenty years to get what I have and to be where I am. I didn't get it by working less and demanding more. And at 45, I have what I wanted, a good secure job, a savings, investments and expendable cash. But to get here,... I had virtually nothing for longer than seemed fair at the time.
My niece is a prime example of the flaw I see in her generation, she has more given to her at 17 than I was able to afford for myself into my mid twenties. She is under a similar illusion, that she "deserves" what she needs/wants just because she is a good person and believes she should be given everything ...because up to now that's exactly what has happened.
shoot for the minimum, then that's the most you can hope for. Suggesting that half the minimum effort, should be rewarded with the maximum reward and you have a loooong road of disappointing, and unexplainable face plants in the future.
Cut a path and make what you want happen, or sit and shake a finger at the "impossibility of it all" until someone gives you what you want. I don't need a crystal ball to tell the futures of those two formulas.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Statistics do not support your specific story being a norm. I could go into my personal story which, up until a couple years ago, was likely on the same path yours was. Now i am penny-less and weeks from homelessness. Hard work, diligence, training, etc all have no statistical correlation to success in our society.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)I don't correlate my experience, with the statistical support of other peoples success/failures. My story/your story,... it matters little depending on what you are prepared to do about it.
the hard fact of life is...... "statistically" speaking there are no scenarios where 100% of the population gets 100% of what they want 100% of the time. There are two options, keep going and keep trying, or call it quits and declare it's just not possible.
If you are about the same age as I am, you need to think very clearly about what your expectations are for the next 15-20 years. I've got 25-30 years left give or take, my family history is marginal at best with heart failure. There are surely some bumps and lumps in the future, statistically speaking there HAS to be. But, I would never concede "it's impossible" and accept a statistical analysis that hard work has no correlation to success. But that's me, I've never accepted someone else's opinion of what I could achieve.
If at any time you have felt that any government official has ever your needs at heart, you handicapped yourself right from the start. Nobody will look at for you, except you, and it's only going to get harder as we hit 50. Not everybody is homeless, so I'll take the success ratio of my choices. Good luck, the only known ending is the one that starts with giving up.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm all for it.
An AUTHENTIC living wage.
Some added benefits: more jobs for those who need one; decrease in schedule stress and exhaustion, with the accompanying increase in health and quality of life.
