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jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:51 AM Jul 2014

And sometimes the death penalty removes people who need to be removed.

Because I think we would all be safer. This is one case where I would support it wholeheartedly, for the one that's left.

Violent California police chase ends with 3 dead


A wild bank robbery chase that saw two hostages thrown from the getaway car and suspects spraying bullets ended in a gunfight and three people dead in Stockton, California, police said Wednesday.

Two suspects were killed by officers but not before the robbers fatally shot one hostage, police said.
...
"I noticed that the front (door) of the Bank of the West opened slowly," Jose Maldonado told CNN affiliate KOVR. "Three guys had three guns and had the guns to the hostages' heads. They were petrified. Their faces were white. They were so scared," Maldonado told the station.
..
When police saw no one moving in the SUV they moved in. They found three dead -- two suspects and one hostage. The third wounded suspect was hospitalized.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/us/california-bank-robbery/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I would wonder if the police helped kill that third one, but the now deceased shot the first two, so perhaps not.



22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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And sometimes the death penalty removes people who need to be removed. (Original Post) jtuck004 Jul 2014 OP
There likely isn't a single instance of the death penalty ever making you or anyone else safer. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #1
I am prepared to accept the risk that someone serving life without parole Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #2
I'm with you on that. Iggo Jul 2014 #18
Let's talk about vengeance. delrem Jul 2014 #3
If you support the death penalty it is all or none. beam me up scottie Jul 2014 #4
Yeah, the problem is when it doesn't. Bonobo Jul 2014 #5
+1000 nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #6
I think you are changing the sugject. I think this asshole needs to be removed from jtuck004 Jul 2014 #15
Yeah, you're right kcr Jul 2014 #20
Ban all guns!!! PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #7
I oppose the death penalty on principle YarnAddict Jul 2014 #8
Once they're in prison and no longer a threat to society... conservaphobe Jul 2014 #9
Murdering them is just a state-sanctioned revenge killing. < You say that like it's a bad thing. jtuck004 Jul 2014 #14
Because it's a bad thing. Iggo Jul 2014 #21
Yeah cause if he got life in prison he might go on a joyride in the prison with hostages. CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #10
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #13
Like most people in the civilized world, I am unalterably opposed MineralMan Jul 2014 #11
life in prison is much worse and cheaper for the taxpayers, imho nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #12
life in prison removes people from society who need to be removed NightWatcher Jul 2014 #16
No, they just take them out of YOUR neighborhood. jtuck004 Jul 2014 #19
When someone is doing life without parole, society is protected from them NightWatcher Jul 2014 #22
It is never justified. morningfog Jul 2014 #17

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
2. I am prepared to accept the risk that someone serving life without parole
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:12 AM
Jul 2014

might escape from prison, avoid recapture, and do me harm. If it means that the United States joins most of the rest of the civilized world in abolishing the death penalty.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
3. Let's talk about vengeance.
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:15 AM
Jul 2014

Not vengeance against a personal wrong, but vengeance inspired by a news story coupled with a sense of identification with the victims of the crime. The identification, the sympathetic reaction, is an entirely natural part of being human. Those who don't feel that kind of compassion are sociopaths, psychopaths, unnatural people who are rightly feared. It's the fodder of the nightly news.

The death penalty, on the other hand, is a political/legislative policy. A choice whether death penalty legislation is enacted (complete with the awesomely sadistic "last minute phone call" excitement, a quintessential part of it) is a choice made by reason alone. That it's all written down and encoded proves it to be the most premeditated of all acts.

I think civilized countries have made a distinction between action based on *vengeance*, and action based on reason, so have outlawed the death penalty. I hope the USA comes to this realization soon.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
4. If you support the death penalty it is all or none.
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:20 AM
Jul 2014

You don't get to cherry pick which people will be "removed" for your safety.

ugh

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
5. Yeah, the problem is when it doesn't.
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:27 AM
Jul 2014

Do you think that state accidentally killing even one innocent person is too much or an acceptable risk?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
6. +1000
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 04:40 AM
Jul 2014

This is also my #1 reason for opposing capital punishment - in an imperfect legal system, which is every legal system, some number of innocent people will always be convicted. Now, if they're imprisoned, they can at least be let out and financially compensated, but there's no undoing an execution.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
15. I think you are changing the sugject. I think this asshole needs to be removed from
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:09 PM
Jul 2014

the planet because the maintenance is too high.

Do you think that state accidentally killing even one innocent person is too much or an acceptable risk? < You are kidding right? We as a country are blowing up innocent children with drones for doing nothing but playing in the mud, and shoot people in the back who are running away from us. We let corporations make more profits by ignoring safety rules, and watch people killed at work every day, yet we leave those companies alone, and even give them tax breaks. There are lots of examples of state-sanctioned killed, and "acceptable risk".

So your state, and mine, kills innocent people all the time. It's not a matter of whether I think we should or not.

But the motherfuckers that robbed the bank aren't innocent.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
20. Yeah, you're right
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:17 PM
Jul 2014

Because people against the death penalty are for those other state sanctioned killings you mention

Sorry, but I think it's better to address those problems rather than using them as excuse to justify one more.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
7. Ban all guns!!!
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 05:08 AM
Jul 2014


This would not have gone down the same way if they would have been robbing the bank with knives and baseball bats.
 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
8. I oppose the death penalty on principle
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 08:52 AM
Jul 2014

but I've never read the details of a DP crime without feeling that I could make an exception in that particular case.

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
9. Once they're in prison and no longer a threat to society...
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 08:53 AM
Jul 2014

Murdering them is just a state-sanctioned revenge killing.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
14. Murdering them is just a state-sanctioned revenge killing. < You say that like it's a bad thing.
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:56 PM
Jul 2014

It's not revenge, it's public safety. Revenge is keeping them in a box for the rest of their life - even thought it might be nicer, and safer, and have better food than anything they have ever experienced.

I would have the spine to kill the person before I ask a guard to risk their life day after day keeping the clown in a box.

Everyone's emotional response is interesting - but I don't believe ANY of them, or you. Because if this had been their wife or child shot and thrown out on a highway like a piece of trash, they would be bringing a rope.

It's easy to pretend to be Mother Teresa on the Internet, isn't it?

bye


CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
10. Yeah cause if he got life in prison he might go on a joyride in the prison with hostages.
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 08:56 AM
Jul 2014

What you want is revenge, not justice. Admit it.

BTW, no DEATH penalty in California as of yesterday. So Boo Hoo Hoo to you.

Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #10)

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
11. Like most people in the civilized world, I am unalterably opposed
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 09:40 AM
Jul 2014

to capital punishment, under any circumstances. While an individual has the right to lethal force in self-defense, the state should not be killing people based on the decision of any jury. Period.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
22. When someone is doing life without parole, society is protected from them
Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:20 PM
Jul 2014

Who in society will ever be harmed by a guy in a concrete box for the rest of his life?

Wanting death as a punishment for death seems to be a rather uncivilized way to deal with it. It makes the state no better than the killer being punished.

How is that selfish?

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