Russian govt: 'unacceptable' to call shooting down of airliner 'terrorist act'

[geek tragedy]

13:02: BBC Monitoring "Attempts to call the plane crash a terrorist act are unacceptable" - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28360784

If Russia really thought, or had any evidence, that Ukraine or anyone but the Russian version of the Bundy Thugs did this, he would be saying the exact opposite thing.

[PeteSelman]

1. Calling it terrorism implies that it was on purpose.

These missile defense systems can find targets but can't distinguish between friend or foe, military or civilian. Like when we shot down an Iranian airliner, this was probably an unfortunate mistake.

[geek tragedy]

2. What is more significant is that he's very eager to make that point

he would not be so eager if he thought the Ukrainian government--which his side calls Nazis with regularity--had done it.

He's already in the game of trying to minimize the outrage over this and shelter his operatives from blame

[PeteSelman]

8. As would we.

As would anyone.

[geek tragedy]

9. very true. nt

[CBGLuthier]

4. Shooting down that Iranian airliner was not a mistake.

Someone targeted it. Someone pushed the button. That is not a mistake. That is a deliberate act. now whether or not they knew they were shooting a civilian plane may be up for debate but calling targeting and firing a missile and it hitting its target a mistake is erroneous or, if you prefer, a mistake.

[Adrahil]

12. These systems CAN ID targets that are broadcasting a beacon.

And this one was. This one was CLEARLY broadcasting beacon indicating that it was MH17. The yahoos shooting the missile just never bothered to check, or more likely, didn't know how to.

In the case of the Iranian airliner, the beacons were much older, and the SPY-1 radar on the ship had a feature which auto-reassigned the track code and this lead to confusion among the crew.

In the wake of that disaster, there were a number of procedural and technology changes made to make such and accident far less likely.

Having said that, I DO think think this was a mistake. The separatists no doubt THOUGHT they shooting at a Ukrainian government transport. But a combination of incompetence and zeal led them to kill 300 innocent people.

[malaise]

15. Well said

I'm still waiting for justice for those Caribbean citizens killed on the Cubana flight in 1976. The two goons walked free all over Florida. There was grand celebration of the killing of those young people - students heading to study medicine and returning to Cuba after sports competitons. There was not one word of condemnation from a single Western power.

You see it's no biggie when the terror is coming from the side that has declared itself the saint. There are no saints.

[sufrommich]

3. Yes they would.This is obviously an attempt to

downgrade it to an "accident" by the Russian Gov. Anyone who thinks they aren't responsible for this is an idiot.

[geek tragedy]

5. yup. Hey, mistakes happen. Please don't cripple our economy nt

[malaise]

19. I don't know which side shot it down

but it does appear to be an accident to the extent that military aircraft have been brought down at least twice this week.

[geek tragedy]

21. there was only one side shooting at military aircraft . . . nt

[sufrommich]

25. I don't doubt it was unintentional,I also don't doubt Russia is

deeply involved with the terrorists who brought it down and is directly responsible for the clumsy,cynical attempt to blame the Ukraine for something they know the Ukraine did not do.

[malaise]

27. So the people of Eastern Ukraine who oppose the Western backed

RW government that followed the coup are now terrorists?

Nothing is that simple. Whoever brought this down should be charged with a war crime - not terrorism, but remember the West does nothing about its war criminals either.

To be kind this planet is a complete and total mess. This is criminal but so is the slaughter of the Palestinian children and while lots of DUers will be posting the UN decisions today, folks remain very silent when the US ignores UN Security Council decisions against the treatment of the Palestinians.

Put simply - neither side has any credibility re human rights, war crimes or basic decency.

[sufrommich]

37. You realize that Russia is a right wing government,right?

The rebels aren't left wing saviors by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kber]

6. Would "act of war" be more accurate?

[geek tragedy]

7. Considering the number of citizens from NATO countries, that's

probably not a term he would want.

He wants to portray this as an accident. To avoid accountability for his side.

[stevenleser]

10. Amazing how the Putin apologists here are both blaming Ukraine and minimizing the incident

for Russia.

[Coventina]

11. I'm amazed that there are Putin apologists on this board.

I recently returned from a long, self-imposed break.

DU's always had its oddballs, but Putin apologists? That I never looked for.

[geek tragedy]

17. Typically they belong to at least one of two groups:

1) hardcore, extremist Russian ethnonationalists who fall in line behind Mother Russia without thinking for themselves during times like this;

2) supporters of the former USSR and other hardcore anti-American ideologues.

[sufrommich]

18. 3. Homophobes who agree with Russia's anti gay policies.nt

[geek tragedy]

20. a few of those, but mostly unprincipled, indecent hacks to whom

human rights are irrelevant, as witnessed by the embrace of Vladdy and his policies.

As witnessed by their apologism for Bashir Assad and for Gaddafhi before that.

[Coventina]

23. Thanks for the explanation. Makes a twisted sense.

Poor deluded souls!

I love Russia as well (although I've never been there), but I feel like I can see that supporting Russia does not mean supporting Putin.
That would be like saying one had to support GW Bush to support the USA!

And, I thought that even the most hardcore communists knew by now that the USSR was (ultimately) a massive failure as a communist state.

Totalitarianism is not communism. Is that so hard to grasp?

(rhetorical question)

[geek tragedy]

24. 'rally around the flag'

remember Bush's 90% approval ratings.

people can be really stupid, especially when they get nationalism fever

[IronGate]

29. I have been to Russia on a FireFighter exchange program

the Russian people I met were some of the most kindest, warm hearted people and I learned just how lucky I am to be a Firefighter/Paramedic in the US compared to the Russian Fire Service.

[Coventina]

32. Thanks for the insight.

As I said, I've never been there, but I'm pretty well-read on Russian history and culture.

The story of Russia is full of glories and achievements and horror. The Russian people have much to be proud of, and much to mourn. Their endurance and strength is awe-inspiring.

I certainly wish that Putin was not so popular, but I don't stand in judgement, after the dumb choices our own country has made. And, it is important to remember that no country is a monolith, and that there are many Russians who oppose Putin and everything he stands for.

(I'm the proud owner and wearer of a Pussy Riot t-shirt and bumper sticker!)

[stevenleser]

36. Every Russian person I have ever met, I've liked, including folks from RT when I was going on that

network. They and the VoR folks are always asking me to come back.

The problem is not the people, it is the government, which, led by a cold war relic named Vladimir Vladimirovich, doesn't know how to conduct foreign policy outside of that framework.

[IronGate]

38. You are so right.

The people are wonderful, it's the govt. that seems to be the problem, some, just like here in the US, are still longing for the days of the Cold War and don't know what to do without it. Luckily, those people are slowly becoming irrelevant as the younger generation starts to come into their own.

As and aside, my year in Russia really opened my eyes as to the differences between our Fire Service policies and their Fire Service, in the US, our PPP's are so much more advanced than Russian FF's, our Firefighting techniques, along with our equipment, are much more advanced than that of Russia's Fire Service, and generally, the Russian Fire Service is totally separated from their medical while here in the US, the Fire Service and Medical are highly integrated.

[geek tragedy]

13. in their defense, they are generally very stupid and without principle, so

without instructions from Moscow they do not know what to say

[Adrahil]

14. Hey, I got a hidden post for calling one out. WORTH IT. NT

[Cha]

22. I saw that. may I just say..

It was a bad hide. Why should something that's So true be hidden?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5255801

[The Magistrate]

41. Indeed, Sir: Very Bad Hide

Truth is an absolute defense against a charge of libel....

[sufrommich]

16. To be fair to the apologists,they're getting mixed messages

from Pootie Poot,it's very hard right now to be a comrade in good standing with all the backtracking going on at the top.

[Takket]

26. So if it wasn't terrorists, then was it a government run operation?

Cause that sounds much worse, Russia.

[LisaL]

31. Which government?

Russia blames Ukraine. Maybe that is what he was trying to say there.

[geek tragedy]

33. No. Russia would not say it was "unacceptable" to call this terrorism

if Ukraine had done it.

They would be hyping the moral outrage, not trying to downplay it.

This is practically an admission that it was the Russians in Ukraine who did this.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. I agree with you on this

[davidpdx]

28. Unbelieveable

He's also saying that it was Ukraine's fault because of the war. I have to wonder if he's hired Karl Rove.

[William769]

30. Russia is responsible for this act of terrorism

That's why they don't want it called that.

Poor Puntinista's are earning their rubles today! And their propaganda is worth as much as a ruble.

[conservaphobe]

34. It's also unacceptable to call the thugs who did it human beings.

Of course the CHIEF THUG doesn't want it called terrorism.

[geek tragedy]

35. unfortunately, that's exactly what they are.

no other creature comes close to human beings in terms of our capacity for raw evil and destruction

[TwilightGardener]

39. Russia helped its thugs blow a plane up, full of people who had

absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine or Russia. It wouldn't have happened if Putin wasn't "invading" with his "rebels". He is responsible for all of the bloodshed in Ukraine, including this. The world should condemn Russia, it should be a pariah.