Meet Your Minimum Wage Replacement...

[kpete]

Don't ask for a living wage or you'll be replaced by an iPad

This is an actual billboard in San Francisco:
?w=1000&h=829
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/dont-ask-for-living-wage-or-youll-be.html
http://pando.com/2014/07/17/new-san-francisco-billboard-warns-workers-theyll-be-replaced-by-ipads-if-they-demand-a-fair-wage/
http://www.dawgshed.com/index.php?threads/san-francisco-billboard-warns-workers-they%E2%80%99ll-be-replaced-by-ipads-if-they-demand-15-minimum-wage.119683/

[HockeyMom]

1. Isn't Chili's doing this now?

[skepticscott]

10. An alert was sent on this post...seriously

Apparently, someone had nothing better to do on a Sunday morning.

On Sun Jul 20, 2014, 11:36 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

They have them at a regional chain now... (gas station/restaurant)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5266036

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Right winger. MIRT alert.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 20, 2014, 11:42 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: absurd alert
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously? Nothing said here is untrue. And does the alerter never use an ATM, or order things online instead of going to a store or calling a real person on the phone? If they do anything like that, they're as much a right-winger as they accuse this person of being.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see an issue with this post (and another that I found from the alerted). There are alot of new accounts out there and MIRT should be alert but...

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[John1956PA]

43. About 6 hours after writing post #3, the author got PPRed.

It appears that, yesterday, the poster authored two posts about obesity which got hidden by jury decisions just this afternoon.

The poster's account was opened on July 17. MIRT indicates that he is a repeat troll.

[PowerToThePeople]

45. It was kind of disappointing

That I lost that alert 0-7.

[skepticscott]

47. There was nothing in that particular post

that warranted hiding, even if the poster was eventually destined for an early departure.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. used one at the local Chili's the other day

however it was just to re-order drinks and pay the bill. it freed up the server to have more tables (we talked with her) and she said she had made MORE money since the things went in. however, they COULD use them in the future to complete the entire order and reduce waitstaff to food and drink runners...

the first time i used something like this was at an airport cafe. you sat down, placed your order on the tablet and then your number was called (the tablet flashed, as well) and you got your own food... no servers in site, only folks making coffee and plating pastries...

sP

[steve2470]

44. yes they are

A server still brings you your food and drink, but you can order and pay via an Ipad-like device.

eta: yea it's reorder, my bad.

[randys1]

2. They dont need us anymore, global economy, work for $2 an hour or shut up and starve

[Vox Moi]

4. The ideal employee?

It never needs time off for jury duty.
It won't come in late, leave early or get sick.
It will never ask for a raise.
IT never needs a vacation.
It will never disagree.
AND: It is programable!
-------------------------
It will never come up with a good idea to help the company.
It will never go the extra mile to assist a customer.
It will never do anything other than what it is told to do.
It cannot tell a joke or take care of an unexpected contingency.
It will never, ever, tell anyone that you are a good boss.

[WinkyDink]

18. "It will never go the extra mile to assist a customer." TPTB don't care! See: Comcast.

[bluedigger]

22. It won't get sick?

Ever hear of viruses?

[Lifelong Protester]

35. Yeah, I was at a restaurant

in a large hotel in the Midwest. We were all scheduled to go to hear conference speakers in 10 minutes. Then what happened? The whole "computer system" went down (so we were told by our server) and NOT ONE PERSON in charge could add up a ticket and manually give it to us. The entire restaurant was shut down. None of us got to our conference sessions on time.

No food in, no food out, no tickets, nothing. We all sat and waited it out.

Give me a damn pen and a piec of paper. I could take orders, add up the check, get those checks to people. Actually interact with them. Wow, what a concept.

[Populist_Prole]

24. It will never drive the economy either

What's that old anecdote, about the car factory? A proud plant manager boasts of his new robotic technology and spews forth a litany of things robots don't do; Don't need breaks, don't talk back etc. The observer dryly replies "and they don't buy cars either".

[Brigid]

52. Walter Reuther, UAW president 1946-1970.

[Gormy Cuss]

5. Because the minimum wage is to blame for that technology

just like it was responsible for those terminals where servers enter your order now.

[LisaLynne]

6. And ATMs and stuff.

Yep.

[LisaLynne]

7. However, iPads don't buy things.

Or need food or any of that, so who exactly will be buying these goods and services? They don't think that far in advance, but ...

[HockeyMom]

8. The Old Horn and Hardart Automat in NYC

No servers. No cashiers. Now you could just swipe your debit or cred card to get your food out.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. There were servers....

Who do you think put the food in the slots?

[HockeyMom]

46. Line Cooks

behind the slats.

[grahamhgreen]

32. That worked well......

[RebelOne]

39. I remember the one in Philadelphia.

My mother would take me there when I was a child. It would be so much fun to choose my food from those windows.

[mmonk]

9. Someone has to make, market, and sell the ipad.

If those are processes that become mechanical, then a person has to make the robot. If making robots and mechanical automation is also done by robots, someone has to do the engineering, idea creation, etc.

[Vox Moi]

11. True, but the iPad manufacturer is doing the same thing.

Productivity up, profits up, wages stagnate and employment erodes.
- use robots to manufacture.
- use computers and technology to reduce the payroll.
- keep wages and benefits to a minimum (ref: Mitt Romney's cure for sick businesses)
- subordinate every consideration to the profit margin.

It's not that technology is bad, it's that the benefits of technology in business goes only the the owners.
That ad might have said:
Hey! With this device you can make even more money! A small part of that extra profit could be used to help your former employees (the ones that made the profit that allowed you to buy the iPad) gain new skills and find new jobs.
It didn't because that would be bad business decision and bad business decisions should be left to the government.

[mmonk]

14. I've always though pervasive poverty is a sort of bad business decision.

No one to buy the goods and services. No demand.

[WinkyDink]

19. Think globally. Money in numbers.

[mmonk]

42. If you find the right countries to sell in but eventually, they can run out.

All countries can't be cheap resource countries.

[PowerToThePeople]

15. I will not do business with an ipad

I will vote with my $$.

[skepticscott]

16. Oh? Do you ever visit ATMs?

Or do you always, always wait for a branch of your bank to be open so that you can go to a teller? Have you ever made an airline or hotel reservation online instead of calling the hotel or the airline, or going to a live travel agent? Have you ever bought books or music or clothing online, instead of going to a real store with real employees?

Because all of those things are no different than "doing business with an iPad".

[PowerToThePeople]

17. You are correct.

There are many areas of life that are automated now, but used to be handled by human workers.

Ideally, we should be able to transition these types of jobs over to automated service. I have used self-checkout lines in grocery stores. I use ATMs, because my bank has no physical branches to visit.

I guess the question that needs to be addressed is, "How do we take care of everyone when there are not enough jobs for everyone to support themselves and family?"

I would say universal minimum income is a workable solution.

[skepticscott]

20. No, the question is

Why are you saying "I will not do business with an iPad" when you do exactly that, just like pretty much everyone else here?

[PowerToThePeople]

21. Because it is a response

to blatant in your face FU by business for increasing the minimum wage. It would be the same as crossing a picket line imo.

If I walk into a restaurant and am greated by an ipad instead of a person, I will turn and walk away.

[skepticscott]

27. And yet by your own admission

you SEEK OUT computers to interact with, when you could choose to do business with a real person instead. When it's cheaper and more convenient, you'll do the same as everyone else.

[PowerToThePeople]

28. That is not 100% true

I shop local owned stores and refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. I also chose to maintain items over purchasing new, even if it is not as convenient. There are many aspects of my life where I do not choose the "easy route." Am I 100% pure in every choice I make? No. Is anyone? Can anyone be in todays society? But, I do try to make conscientious choices instead of just the cheapest and most convenient for myself.

[yeoman6987]

53. Do you go to a travel agency or make reservations on line?

There are tons of jobs that are automated. You need to get with the times or you fall behind. It has been this way forever and it is absolutely no different today then it was since the beginning of time.

[LibDemAlways]

29. There is a restaurant near me that has Ipads on

each table. Customers are required to swipe a credit card before ordering. It really is a stupid gimmick. A host or hostess is still required to assist with seating and handling waitlists. Chefs still need to prepare the food. Servers are still required to deliver food, drinks, and take care of any problems that arise. And I would be willing to bet that some cheapskates stiff on the tip using the excuse that they didn't get full service, when, in fact, they did.

Went once with a friend. Long wait for food which was delivered cold. Restaurant was understaffed, with a single server trying to handle half the tables in the place. Just all around bad idea.

[skepticscott]

31. And if people don't like ordering that way in a restaurant

and if no one can make it work efficiently, then that business model will fail. As it should. But pretty much everyone used to have to go to a live travel agent to make airline reservations, and now, the vast majority of people do that without ever interacting with a real human, only machines. Would you advocate going back to the old way, if it would produce lots more human jobs? If not, why not?

Human functions have been rendered obsolete for centuries by the progress of technology. That's the way the world works. Not always comfortable in the short term, but what point would you prefer to go back to?

[LibDemAlways]

34. I am a former travel agent. Obviously my job disappeared

as the internet increased in popularity. Today most people who book through the few remaining travel agents either don't know how to or prefer not to book over the internet.

I happen to think travel agents performed a valuable service beyond the ability to use an airline computer. We could steer prospective clients toward or away from a particular cruise line, for example, depnding on their age and interests. We could talk people who were hell bent on spending as little as possible on a week in Hawaii into spending a few dollars more to avoid horrible buggy fleatraps that looked nothing like the brochure. I often went to bat for clients who had made a mistake like losing a ticket. I once talked a PanAm supervisor into allowing a woman who had lost her ticket and had no means to get home onto a plane in Europe. True that today Yelp and Trip Advisor help savvy travelers make wise choices, but I still think it's a shame that the personal touch has all but disappeared. Progress, yes, but at a cost to the traveling public. So, to answer your question, yes I'd go back to the old way. Brick and morter travel agencies not only created jobs, they gave the consumer an advocate to help navigate often tricky travel waters.

[Lifelong Protester]

36. I still like travel agents.

I do not like sitting in front of a computer and having the site deposit 'cookies' so that if I go back to the site, the price has gone up.

I think most of this technology is owning us. I am not so much disparaging technology (obviously I'm typing on a computer) but the last few days I have had to deal with 'customer service' first from the website, then from the phone (from WI to Mumbai, I'm pretty sure) and did not get any real satisfaction from doing so. I'd personally rather spend my time face to face with a human.

[skepticscott]

48. Apparently you'd find very few people to agree with your

rather self-serving nostalgia. If you could, if the occasional convenience of having an actual travel agent on speed dial outweighed the massive inconvenience of having to make a special trip to a travel agency or call during business hours just to book or check on flight schedules, the travel business wouldn't have collapsed the way it did. People HAVE spoken with their feet and their dollars, as they always will. Some human services just aren't that valuable or necessary on balance.

[xchrom]

25. the minimum wage of 15 is responsible? if they expect to buy that

then they expect to buy their crappy fast food product.

i'm not buying either.

[woo me with science]

26. Time for serious discussion about a guaranteed living income.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/rethinking-the-idea-of-a-basic-income-for-all/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/wheeler-minimum-income/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/02/17/guaranteed_basic_income_the_real_alternative_to_the_minimum_wage.html

[Half-Century Man]

30. Second posting of my opinion.

If I, and millions of my peers, were laying starving on the ground with a jack booted foot planted on our necks; my choice of entree would not be the scrawny sickly bastard next to me. But, the foot heavy with juicy meat above me.

But, I'll admit I have issues.

Second ear treat

[ZombieHorde]

33. Devo covered Head Like a Hole?!

Ha! Awesome.

[Half-Century Man]

37. I'm conflicted.

I like Devo's cover better that the NIN

[2pooped2pop]

38. it doesn't matter if u want fair wage or not

If it is in corporate's profit interest to do this, they will. It does not matter what you think or what you do.

You cannot make deals with them. They will screw you over in the end either way.

[Rex]

40. Well then I guess those places will have to be boycotted out of busniess.

Takes two to tango.

[hedgehog]

41. I think that would be a great idea - the problem isn't that simple tasks are being done by machines

rather than people; the problem is that the benefits of increased productivity from machines are being held by a few rather than working through the entire economy.

In 1830 it took 250+ manhours to harvest 100 bushels of wheat, now it takes 3 3/4. Our food prices now are very cheap compared to what they were then, but imagine where we'd be if landowners had been able to keep prices at the same level, and all the people who used to harvest wheat were never employed elsewhere. That's the situation we've been in since the Reagen Presidency.

[Brigid]

49. Obvious intimidation tactic is obvious.

[Kurska]

50. Coporate America "Lets replace all our workers with robots!"

Corporate America "Damn, where did all the customers go?"

I wonder.

[Brigid]

51. A little story from my history book:

One day in the early '50's, Walter Reuther, then president of the UAW, was touring a Ford plant with a "management person," as Reuther put it (some say it was Henry Ford II). The manager gleefully showed off all the advanced machinery in the plant and asked, "How are you going to get these robots to pay union dues?" To which Reuther replied, "How are you going to get these robots to buy cars?"