If the US had an airline shot down in unfriendly territory, the US would send in the military

[Renew Deal]

I think that if that airline was full of Americans and came from the US, the US would be under tremendous pressure to secure the site themselves. I find the helpless reaction of Holland, Australia, and others to the MH17 situation surprising. They have the bodies of their citizens being mugged. Their possessions are being stolen. Investigators are not being permitted to see them. And what is the hope for recovery? Where are the bodies? How will they get home? Europe's reaction is weak.

I wonder what this threat of "consequence" really means? Anything short of direct action is worthless. At some point you have to stand up for your people.

[RobertEarl]

1. Invade?

No. Had this happened a few months ago when there was no war going on, Ukraine and Russia would have been on top of it working together. As it is there is a war going on and any invasion would mean many more deaths.

It is sad what is going on. The land is Ukranian soil and the Ukranians will be held responsible for this.

All this points out once again; wars are no answer to anything.

[Renew Deal]

2. No "invasion"

That is not feasible. But I think they would have sent in a significant military force to that location to secure the site and do the work.

[RobertEarl]

10. That would be an invasion

When Russia shot down our jet, we didn't invade.

What about; this is already a war zone, we don't get?

Troops land from somewhere else and what happens? They get shot at. Maybe another missile. This is not a disney world fantasy land. It is a war zone. There is already death and destruction going on. Unless our troops were ready to kill thousands more, they would be slaughtered.

WAR means death. It means killing. When there is a war going on, you either fight to kill or die trying, if you enter. This is why i am against all war.

[NutmegYankee]

8. "Ukranians will be held responsible for this"

What a load of horseshit! The soil the missile was fired from is held by Russian backed separatists. Think of it as blaming the USA for an action taken from CSA held South Carolina in 1863. In that example the CSA is the responsible party. Same with the Russian separatists.

[RobertEarl]

11. WTF?

You are already jumping to conclusions? That's what McCain does. I am surprised to see someone on DU do the same.

Ukraine, if it desires to be a member of polite society, will take responsibility for the crash scene. The problem is they are in a war on the same grounds with who the hell knows who.

Russia may not be to blame for the missile being fired. Certainly Mccain thinks so, but he's wrong 99% of the time.

Thank Gawd Obama is not thinking like McCain.

[KittyWampus]

13. Ukraine can't take responsibility for the crash scene because Putin's rebels are there. WTF?

You have the audacity to claim others are jumping to conclusions and yet you yourself obviously are loath to accept reality.

[RobertEarl]

16. I don't know that

Neither do you.

There are several factions at war in Ukraine. Nazis, fascists and some pro-Russians are fighting the whatever they hell is in power in the Ukraine now.

You do not know the reality of the situation on the ground there, so stop acting like you do. It is a war zone with no clearly labeled combatants. Just like we saw in all our years in Iraq, except for us being the invaders. In Ukraine they all live there and are having a bloody civil war, with lots of outside influences.

You are like Mccain? He thinks it's all cut and dry and Obama should jump in. It's not cut and dry, so stop yammering like you know the reality.

[Duckhunter935]

33. Bull pucky

There are several factions at war in Ukraine. Nazis, fascists and some pro-Russians are fighting the whatever they hell is in power in the Ukraine now.

So you say the elected government is ALL "Nazis, fascists" but there are just some Pro_Russian. What bull, there are actual Russians that are fighting the elected government of Ukraine with some Ukrainian citizens. They are getting resupplied by Russia. I am sure you felt the same way when Russia crushed the Chechnya uprising.

Get a grip, the Pro-Russian side fucked up, shot down a civilian airliner over territory they had taken over and bragged about it until they realized the mistake and are frantically trying to delete shit.

[NutmegYankee]

23. A wtf for stating facts. Now that's funny!

Sorry to burst that fantasy world of yours.

[RobertEarl]

24. You think Russia should invade?

Somehow I don't think you see this too clearly.

It's like you think you know exactly what's going on over there. Have a nice day.

[NutmegYankee]

25. You are making absolutely no sense.

I think Russia should withdraw, not invade.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. NutmegYankee pointed out the missiles were fired from territory controlled by the rebels

This is a simple fact, universally held. The rebels are the ones with the guns at the crash site.

They said nothing at all about 'Russia should invade'. You seem to be saying things at random without any reference to reality of what people say here, but you expect people to take your posts as having some meaning. That's not how a conversation works.

[RobertEarl]

29. Ukranian territory

Not Russian. In order for Russia to take control they would have to invade. They will not invade, they can't take control. You want Russia to take control means you want Russia to invade.

What I wonder is, since some of you have this all figured out, why is Obama sitting around doing NOTHING?

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. You see, you've done it again; I said nothing about Russia 'taking control' or invading

You don't hold a conversation by spouting random BS like "you want Russia to take control means you want Russia to invade".

The US is not 'doing nothing'. It has shown its evidence that the rebels launched the missile: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-crash-kerry-evidence-pro-russia-separatists-responsibility , and it is pushing for sanctions: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/20/malaysia-flight-kerry/12909123/ .

[RobertEarl]

31. Newspapers

Got anything official?

So what do you think should happen there?

You think we should bomb them? Invade? What?

The OP, which I replied to, is suggesting we should send in the troops.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Personally, I trust the Guardian and USA Today to not just make up quotes from the State Dept

If you think the entire media is lying to you, then you can go and look on the State Dept website yourself.

I think we should put pressure on Russia to rein in the rebels, who are armed by Russia, so that a decent investigation can be done. Pretty much what western countries are doing.

Why are you so keen to assume that everyone else is thinking in terms of bombing and invading?

[BlueJazz]

3. With Americans, it would depend on which party was in office.

The reaction (so far) from other countries seems to make sense. We truly don't know who shot down the airliner. We think we know but things have a way of becoming sleazy when the powers-that-be (in our government) are involved.
As far as your question though, if Americans had a Republican president, we'd probably be bombing Norway.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Are you completely cracked?

This says a lot more about the arrogance of the USA than anything else. You can't just send troops into the territory of a sovereign nation. It's an act of war. You especially can't just send troops into disputed territory where there's an ongoing civil war. That could turn into something much uglier very quickly; there's too much potential for negative consequences.

[Renew Deal]

5. Completely serious

And "arrogance" is part of it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. That's part of why a lot of people outside the USA don't like Americans (n/t)

[Renew Deal]

7. Americans don't care

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. Of course they don't

one of the advantages of living in the most insular country on the planet not called "North Korea", I suppose.

[Skittles]

22. the thinking ones do

[Cha]

12. Oh those "Arrogant Americans" who hypothetically would want to get their own victims home so

their loved one could give them the kind of send off they want.

Hopefully, all those heads of state who reportedly talked to Putin today will have some impact on releasing the bodies from the murderous assholes who are holding on to them.

jasonbellini ✔ @jasonbellini
Follow
Mother of #MH17 victims: "Mr. Putin, send my children home."
http://on.wsj.com/Uliegm

TOD

But, it's a freaking war zone with Russian terrorists calling the shots.. not easy to just go there and have the weight of Russia potentially cracking down on them.

Oh, and P.S. Lots of Americans care what the world thinks of them.

[Cali_Democrat]

20. Putin wants the crash site looted

He wants chaos at the site. It will impede and obstruct the investigation.

Putin is an asshole.

And to think... that homophobic and imperialistic piece of shit has a fan club right here.

[Cha]

21. But, "The West!!!111" Putin's fan club is tap dancing fast and furiously

to get others to look anywhere but at his atrocities. It's like they know what he is but they don't care. UnFreakingBelievable.

[kiranon]

14. Doubt US military would go into China, N.Korea, Russia

under these circumstances. Or England or France or Iran or most any other country. There are better ways to proceed IMHO. And, I'm ex military.

[Amonester]

15. Huh... Americans had thousands of troops in harms way in Iraq: nobody rushed the WH...

Huh, I mean, nobody rushed the WH successfully...

(Canadian, here, with close relatives who are US-born citizens.)

[peace13]

17. Over 500,000 people went to DC to march against the surge.

Some of us marched weekly throughout the war and worked to bring the troops home. Most rational people drew the line at rushing the gate at a Bush Whitehouse. People were imprisoned for talking harshly to the VP. Rushing anything was pretty dangerous.

Laura came to my home town stumping for a Rethuglicans. Out the tailgates of her motorcade were automatic rifles pointing at the crowd. Minutes before they passed by, a local sheriff deputy went off at a young child because he was too near the street. When we saw the guns...we understood.

Many did and continue to stand up here for the troops, peace and human rights. Looking in is different than looking out...trust me.

[Amonester]

19. I trust you. Marched in -25C temps in synch with millions others in the world.

Didn't do sh*t to stop the monsteR$.

[rug]

18. I don't think Malaysia invading the Ukraine is feasible.

[AngryAmish]

26. And how does Malasia get people into Ukraine?

The US is unique in their ability to project power.

[WinkyDink]

27. Um, no.