Russia Presents Its Account of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash

[Karmadillo]

One can hope at some point the US will also be forthcoming with its radar and satellite imagery.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/russia-presents-its-account-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-17-crash-1405952441

Russia Presents Its Account of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash
Russia's Defense Ministry Said Second Aircraft in Vicinity of Doomed Airliner
By OLGA RAZUMOVSKAYA
July 21, 2014 10:20 a.m. ET

MOSCOW—Russia's Defense Ministry on Monday presented its first detailed account of the final moments of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, saying Russian radar had spotted a second aircraft in the vicinity shortly before the crash and that satellite imagery showed Ukraine had moved missile systems into the area before the incident.

<edit>

In an elaborate presentation displaying radar and satellite imagery, Mr. Makushev said it was likely that the second airplane was a Ukrainian fighter jet. He also showed satellite photos allegedly portraying several Buk ground-to-air missile systems in the area close to where the plane crashed. The systems, he said, could only belong to the Ukrainian military. Ukraine has accused Russia of giving the rebels a Buk system, with which they then shot down the passenger jet.

Mr. Makushev said the airplane deviated from its course by 14 kilometers, but then attempted to return to its course, before crashing shortly after.

He said Russia is prepared to hand all of the information it has to European authorities, which included satellite imagery and data from its own radars.

more...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-show-tell-its-the-wests-turn-russian-satellites-and-radars-contradict-wests-baseless-claims/5392468

<edit>

Indeed, the evidence suggested Kiev’s regime deployed anti-air missile systems in Donetsk in and around the area where flight MH17 crashed. They also provided information regarding Ukrainian warplanes trailing flight MH17, the possibility of an air-to-air attack on MH17, and inconsistencies with Ukrainian air traffic control.

There were a series of questions asked throughout the presentation – nothing was “concluded” – which is in direct contrast to the West which has shown the world nothing in terms of evidence, but has drawn many inflammatory, politically-motivated conclusions.Russia has shown a great deal of evidence directly contradicting the West’s baseless claims. Now it’s time for the Pentagon to show the world their pictures and data along with their explanations.

The following video is presented in both Russian and English: (You'll need to go to the site because I don't know how to embed the video)

[Agschmid]

1. This will get worse before it gets... well nope.

[IronGate]

2. And another Pootie Poot apologist speaketh. nt.

[onecaliberal]

3. Had the same thought.

[randome]

4. So they're admitting they shot down the wrong plane.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Odd

It comes across like 'just a crash' and oh by the way . . .

That plane was shot down. It did not just mysteriously crash.

[PoliticalPothead]

6. The difference in how both countries are handling this is very telling.

The Russian govt is taking the right approach, waiting for all the evidence to come in before passing judgement. The US is in full BLAME RUSSIA!!! mode without even presenting any evidence to support their claims.

[snooper2]

8. Russia is in CYA mode, fuck the pro-Rus-Si-A assholes who did this

[Igel]

23. The Russian government has backtracked as the claims mounted and went against it.

At first it was clear.

The Russian Min of Defense said that there were 27 Buks arrayed around Donetsk.

The next day it said it had intercepted comm chatter between two Buk-M1 systems, linking them and showing that they were active at the time the plane came down. Then they said they had witnesses and evidence that the plane was downed by a missile--the rebels didn't have any, while the Ukrainians had 27 of which at least two were active in the right place and the right time.

The conclusion was clear: Ukraine was guilty.

Opinion didn't follow the party line--always a shock for the party who believes itself in control--and suddenly the narrative was, "Too early to assign blame. Can't assigne blame. Mustn't assign blame. This could take a year or more, we have to wait. Oh--and while there's the investigation, since the rebels are losing territory in a big way, can we have a ceasefire?"

Then they relied on the Spanish air-traffic controller that never existed to create doubt. Anonymous eye-witnesses then corroborated that account, and the rebels even claimed that they did a good thing by shooting down one of the two Ukrainian fighters. Then Russia comes back with the fighter jet "evidence"--there was one fighter in the area, they say. At first it was close to the jet. Now it accompanied the jet.

They're as close as you can get to assigning responsibility, then back off and say, "Can't form a conclusion." Primarily to keep international public opinion off of Putin's back. It's defensive and downright offensive.

Blaming Russia is, btw, blaming it for arming the rebels. All that Russia is really trying to do is make sure that nobody continues to blame it for giving the rebels a Buk, with a secondary goal of saying that the rebels couldn't have downed it. The latest claim from Russia is that Russia certainly, absolutely didn't give the rebels a Buk-4 system.

Buk-4? The denial of aid is much, much more specific than any implied accusation I've heard so far. It's quite weird. It's like in a drunk-driving case. "Did you serve your guest too much alcohol, so that he left your party drunk?" "No, your honor, I did not serve my guest vodka martinis with olives."

They have to get their act together. Their mishmash of stories is really confusing--which is, of course, a possible way of doing things.

Take the black boxes. Today the DNR rebels are supposed to turn them over to the Malaysian delegation. But for days they've said they don't have them, or aren't sure if they have them, or don't know what they look like, or said they haven't been found--but if they find them, they'll be sure to turn them over the correct international agency. They've said everything *but* "Yes, we have them and will turn them over when we're ready." It kept everybody confused while they bargained for what they could get. But they've had them, certainly at least one of them, for days. And instead of turning them over to an international agency, they turn them over to the Malaysians (which is fine by me), partly to keep them away from the evil Westerners, but also because it meant one-on-one negotiations. And just as the chemical-weapons agreement with Syria was taken to give Assad some legitimacy, so the DNRovtsy claim that they've at least been partly recognized as a country by the Malaysians.

[conservaphobe]

7. Official press release from the office of Vladimir Putin:

[MohRokTah]

9. Russia presents bold faced lies as Its Account of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash

Fixed the headline for you.

[William769]

11. I always keep this on hand.

The Russian Government & RT are the same.

[Karmadillo]

14. Maybe you could also point out some of those baldfaced lies you noticed

when reading the article and watching the video. Thanks.

[IronGate]

15. Here's one,

observed a Ukrainian Fighter following the aircraft,
Here's another lie, witnesses saw a Ukrainain fighter jet shortly after the explosion.
Pootie Poot is in CYA mode and you and a few others are falling for it.

[Karmadillo]

17. I have no idea whether their claims are true, but do you have any evidence to

support your claim they are lies?

[MohRokTah]

30. "The systems, he argued, could only belong to the Ukrainian military."

Yeah, the Ukrainian military sent a small unit deep into rebel held territory so it could shoot missiles at Ukrainian aircraft, because the rebels have no aircraft.

[William769]

10. Major fail on all accounts.

Have you all not learned yet that Russian propaganda is not being bought by anyone except Putinista's? Hell, may Russians aren't even buying what Putin is trying to sell. That's how bad the propaganda is.

[SidDithers]

12. ...

globalresearch.



Sid

[mn9driver]

13. Took them long enough to cook up a story.

It certainly didn't take this long for them to fabricate their "evidence".

[geek tragedy]

21. they actually just admitted it was the rebels.

they admitted there were Buk systems near the crash site.

Their story is that the Ukrainian government infiltrated rebel territory to set them up there.

[Karmadillo]

16. Link to some satellite photos from the presentation.

Again, one hopes the US will be willing to make its photographic evidence available.

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

<edit>

‘Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area’

<edit>

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

<edit>

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.



While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.



“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said



more...

[countingbluecars]

19. And if the US makes its photographic

evidence available, will you believe it?

[Karmadillo]

22. It would depend on the evidence, wouldn't it? Ideally, both sides will

hand over all records to a relatively unbiased source and we'll proceed from there.

[former9thward]

33. Why has the U.S. or any western country released no evidence?

I happen to think the rebels shot the plane down by accident but I am bothered the U.S. has released nothing.

[geek tragedy]

24. You realize that's supporting the US claims, right?

If Russia is placing the Buk systems in rebel-held territory, that corroborates what the US is saying.

Then it becomes a question of how plausible the Russian story is

--that Ukrainian troops infiltrated rebel territory while transporting bulky missile systems that were of absolute no military value to them.

vs the rest of the world's perception:

--that the rebels, who had been shooting down planes all week from this general area, fucked up on this one.

[MohRokTah]

31. That PROVES the rebels did it.

There is no way any military in the world would send small, unprotected SAM units into rebel held territory when there are NO TARGETS FOR SUCH SYSTEMS. The rebels operate no aircraft.

[geek tragedy]

18. So, wait, Russia admits that there were Buk systems in rebel-held territory

but claims that they were actually held by Ukrainian troops who had snuck into rebel territory?

Because high altitude missiles designed to shoot down airplanes are EXACTLY what Ukrainian troops would take with them while surrounded by hostile troops who didn't have any airplanes.

And if they had radar of this "second plane" why don't they have any kind of information on the missile that plane supposedly fired?

Sounds like they're trying to come up with competing lies to cover their tracks.

[randome]

26. AND the plane was filled with dead bodies, we'll hear next.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[geek tragedy]

28. their spin is kind of besides the point. the photos they produced pretty much

seal the case

[MohRokTah]

32. They've already floated that bullshit a few days ago.

Rebel Leader: Malaysia Plane Filled with Already Dead Bodies

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Both sides need to hand over --

their "evidence" for an independent review. I ain't buying what Russia is selling, but I'm not completely convinced by Ukraine's stuff either.

[stevenleser]

25. LMAO

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. Well this only works with the idiots inside Russia, 90% of whom get their info from state run media.

The rest of the developed world ain't buying anything Putin's selling, with the exception of a few RT fanatics. Good luck with that.

[jeff47]

29. Yes, when I infiltrate an area held by enemy ground forces

I bring along nothing but SAM launchers. That way I can shoot down their aircraft that do not exist.

Tanks? Pthph. Way too useful.