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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:29 PM Jul 2014

Robert Parry: The Mystery of a Ukrainian Army ‘Defector’.

Parry suggests we abandon the kind of "group think" that brought us the Iraq War and conduct a "serious and impartial investigation" instead. A very sane suggestion. The article is well worth reading.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/22/the-mystery-of-a-ukrainian-army-defector/

Exclusive: U.S. intelligence officials suggest that the person who fired the missile that downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 may have been “a defector” from the Ukrainian army, an apparent attempt to explain why some CIA analysts thought satellite images revealed men in Ukrainian army uniforms manning the missile battery, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

The Mystery of a Ukrainian Army ‘Defector’
July 22, 2014

As the U.S. government seeks to build its case blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, the evidence seems to be getting twisted to fit the preordained conclusion, including a curious explanation for why the troops suspected of firing the fateful missile may have been wearing Ukrainian army uniforms.

On Tuesday, mainstream journalists, including for the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, were given a briefing about the U.S. intelligence information that supposedly points the finger of blame at the rebels and Russia. While much of this circumstantial case was derived from postings on “social media,” the briefings also addressed the key issue of who fired the Buk anti-aircraft missile that is believed to have downed the airliner killing all 298 people onboard.

After last Thursday’s shoot-down, I was told that U.S. intelligence analysts were examining satellite imagery that showed the crew manning the suspected missile battery wearing what looked like Ukrainian army uniforms, but my source said the analysts were still struggling with whether that essentially destroyed the U.S. government’s case blaming the rebels.

The Los Angeles Times article on Tuesday’s briefing seemed to address the same information this way: “U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.”

That statement about a possible “defector” might explain why some analysts thought they saw soldiers in Ukrainian army uniforms tending to the missile battery in eastern Ukraine. But there is another obvious explanation that the U.S. intelligence community seems unwilling to accept: that the missile may have been launched by someone working for the Ukrainian military.

more...

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Robert Parry: The Mystery of a Ukrainian Army ‘Defector’. (Original Post) Karmadillo Jul 2014 OP
Parry is more in the tank for the separatists than the separatists are geek tragedy Jul 2014 #1
If calling for a "serious and impartial" investigation is being in the tank, I guess you're right. Karmadillo Jul 2014 #2
that's not what he's doing, he's trying to peddle the horseshit from Moscow geek tragedy Jul 2014 #3
You always know so much whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #6
nah, it's that some refuse to believe what's plainly evident geek tragedy Jul 2014 #8
Except, it's not. Octafish Jul 2014 #27
You can't make people believe what they do not want to believe. Witness climate change deniers pampango Jul 2014 #32
I'm confused. Which horseshit should I accept as truthful? tech3149 Jul 2014 #19
The separatists themselves are contradicting what Parry is geek tragedy Jul 2014 #22
No one reputable, THINKS anything right now. Parry is one of the most reliable sources sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #7
more of this fucking idiocy? is this phase #2 or phase #3 now? snooper2 Jul 2014 #4
What 'idiocy' are you talking about? sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #9
Sssshhhhh, Parry should know better than to try to get FACTS. He was around sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #5
Parry. LOL...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #10
SidDithers of DU. LOL. Octafish Jul 2014 #29
What you think are facts, and what are actually facts, are two different things...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #34
How would you know? whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #47
Parry is embarassing himself... joeybee12 Jul 2014 #11
Parry is not the one embarrassing himself. Have you watched our Corporate Media lately? sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #13
It's one thing to take whatever you see in our MSM with a very critical view...and we all should joeybee12 Jul 2014 #23
That is what Parry is doing. Did you read the article at all? He agrees with you. sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #25
All he's writing is at best, hearsay evidence...at supposed briefings he did joeybee12 Jul 2014 #28
The comment section is just as crazy,including the sufrommich Jul 2014 #17
Maybe Wayne Madsen's theories will get posted here next nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #18
And be defended by the "It wasn't Russia!!" contingent...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #20
I hate to do this again, but I must correct you. Defended by those wanting FACTS. sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #21
Are you disputing something Parry actually wrote, if so I would be interested in sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #26
Keep trying. zappaman Jul 2014 #12
So our Intel saw people in Ukrainian military uniforms. That would be Kiev uniforms I sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #14
Notice that the US came out and said there is no evidence malaise Jul 2014 #31
Yes, but I had to go find that elsewhere, AND this from Parry, which has been published sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #37
There's no way to dispute it. Igel Jul 2014 #52
Anything can be disputed, but the Intel Community has not disputed Parry's sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #55
Nope. jeff47 Jul 2014 #38
Wrong again. Parry is late in covering this information. It has been everywhere, EXCEPT sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #39
Why do you think lying makes your argument better? jeff47 Jul 2014 #46
I am claiming that the information from Parry, has been published sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #50
And that claim is the lie. jeff47 Jul 2014 #51
You didn't read the article, did you? Parry's article follows the briefing of journalists, AND sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #54
The first article. jeff47 Jul 2014 #56
Here, let me be clear. If Parry is the original source of ANY story, there is a 99% sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #60
The mystery is Robert Parry. GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #15
Of course he doesn't. Lol, he's a JOURNALIST, he, like the Corporate Media has sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #24
I'm with Parry malaise Jul 2014 #16
I'm with Parry. Octafish Jul 2014 #30
Ya know, these attempts are pretty damn pathetic. jeff47 Jul 2014 #42
I wonder what the RUB/USD exchange rate is these days. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #33
Using that 'ruble' thing again? Is that a talking point, if so, it's a big fail. sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #40
Only a loathsome individual would give cover to the perpetrators of such a heinous crime. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #44
'Only a loathsome individual' would use the victims of such a terrible tragedy to lie sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #48
I followed the link and found no "actual" articles, or FACTual for that matter. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #49
It's an appeal to authority. Igel Jul 2014 #53
It's appeal to authority plus he's telling a story that fits with their political opinions. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #57
So when the first version of Parry's story fell apart, he decided jeff47 Jul 2014 #35
You didn't read the article, did you? Hint, it isn't HIS version of the story! sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #41
He is the one telling it. That makes it his story. jeff47 Jul 2014 #45
So you don't understand what "sources" are then. cui bono Jul 2014 #58
You mean the basis of all of Judith Miller's reporting? jeff47 Jul 2014 #59
Parry isn't quoting Russian propaganda Oilwellian Jul 2014 #36
Thanks, the knee jerk responses in this thread are an embarrassment to this site sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #43
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. Parry is more in the tank for the separatists than the separatists are
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:33 PM
Jul 2014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

...

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.




No one thinks the Ukrainians shot the plane down, except outright shills for Moscow.

Even the militia fighters (the ones not serving Moscow) are saying the Russian government and its shills like Parry are full of it.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
3. that's not what he's doing, he's trying to peddle the horseshit from Moscow
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jul 2014

that it was probably the Ukrainians who did this.

Trying to deflect blame from where it OBVIOUSLY lies.

Even separatists are admitting that it was separatists who shot it down.

Think about that. The guys shooting at the Ukrainian government are more honest on this than Parry and his ilk are.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. nah, it's that some refuse to believe what's plainly evident
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:57 PM
Jul 2014

take, for example, climate change deniers.

that's what this crap from Parry is

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
27. Except, it's not.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:41 PM
Jul 2014

The difference, you should know, is Parry bases his reportage on facts and the climate science deniers, don't.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
32. You can't make people believe what they do not want to believe. Witness climate change deniers
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:11 PM
Jul 2014

in the republican party. If your world view precludes the truth of a certain set of "facts" then no amount of evidence will change that.

tech3149

(4,452 posts)
19. I'm confused. Which horseshit should I accept as truthful?
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:26 PM
Jul 2014

That coming from Washington and New York or that from Moscow? We all already know that governments lie to their citizens and the world to sell their view of the world and their specific interest no matter how deluded.
I keep going back to knowing and understanding historical facts to understand current affairs. With that reference, I can't help but hold the US more responsible than Russia for the tribulations and tragedy that we deal with today.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. The separatists themselves are contradicting what Parry is
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jul 2014

trying to peddle.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

...

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723

Y'all are more eager to shift the blame from the rebels than the rebels are.

With that reference, I can't help but hold the US more responsible than Russia for the tribulations and tragedy that we deal with today


Your choice to adhere to an ideological, partisan agenda rather than fact-based inquiry.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. No one reputable, THINKS anything right now. Parry is one of the most reliable sources
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:57 PM
Jul 2014

in this country. He had his sources during the Iraq War, and he was right. I'll go with his assessment of the situation over the war mongers on the MSM any day. Their record on these issues is not just dismal, it is despicable as we all remember.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. Sssshhhhh, Parry should know better than to try to get FACTS. He was around
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jul 2014

the last time, trying to get to the facts. He was called a traitor, a Saddam lover etc by the rabid Far Right Warmongers.

And here he is, doing it again. Will the man never learn?


Lol, Parry, one of this country's best journalists.

Thanks for the OP.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
29. SidDithers of DU. LOL.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jul 2014

Should've known you didn't like Robert Parry. The guy bases his reportage on facts.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
47. How would you know?
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jul 2014

Is it from all the exhaustive research you do in the ten minutes a day you're not popping off in here?

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
11. Parry is embarassing himself...
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:01 PM
Jul 2014

You expect fact-free, hypothetical, and down right making-shit-up stuff from Fox and the National Enquierer.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
23. It's one thing to take whatever you see in our MSM with a very critical view...and we all should
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jul 2014

It's another just to make sh*t up.

The most reasonable explanation right now is that so called separatists, funded by the Russians, shot down that plane, either mistakenly or intentionally...they control that area, they have the weapons...no other media in any country, other than Russia, is buying the crap Parry and others are peddaling...he has absolutely no facts to support what he alleges...he's got nothing...

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
25. That is what Parry is doing. Did you read the article at all? He agrees with you.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jul 2014

Point out the 'crap' Parry is 'pedalling'. All you've done so far is fling poo without explaining why. I'm willing to consider your points IF they address what Parry actually said, but so far, you have not addressed anything Parry actually said.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
28. All he's writing is at best, hearsay evidence...at supposed briefings he did
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jul 2014

not attend, writing things like "I was told..." that smacks of making shit up...then he jumps to someone from the Ukranian military doing it...sorry, shit is shit.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
17. The comment section is just as crazy,including the
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:13 PM
Jul 2014

requisite "the jews did it".

“Are the Russians and the rebels lying?”
No!! That would be the World Zionists = Kerry , McCain , Clinton , Lindsay the Puke , Liar Harry , lame brain Pelosi , Kiev , NATO , AIPAC , ADL , The Israel lobby and 90% of DC .


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
21. I hate to do this again, but I must correct you. Defended by those wanting FACTS.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jul 2014

The Corporate Media's CTs need to be investigated, as we all, at least Democrats in this country, know.

'I think' doesn't pass the lowest test in journalism.

There, fixed it.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
26. Are you disputing something Parry actually wrote, if so I would be interested in
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jul 2014

discussing THAT with you.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
14. So our Intel saw people in Ukrainian military uniforms. That would be Kiev uniforms I
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:10 PM
Jul 2014

suppose. Good that they have this information. Now they can stop speculating with all the CTS we've been seeing on the Corporate Media and try to identify these people.

Hopefully an investigation, I know who needs that when we have the Corporate Media CTs, will be given access to this and all other material that can help get to the facts.

malaise

(268,693 posts)
31. Notice that the US came out and said there is no evidence
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jul 2014

that Russia was involved. Have you seen any of the sheeple anywhere comment on that fact?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
37. Yes, but I had to go find that elsewhere, AND this from Parry, which has been published
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jul 2014

in other venues. And no one has yet disputed it. But I have yet to hear it on the Corporate Media. Thank the gods we are not stuck with them, yet.

Igel

(35,274 posts)
52. There's no way to dispute it.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:13 PM
Jul 2014

He says some anonymous person told him that some analysts--how many, their level of analysis, whether they still hold this view--told him that it was possible that the guy at the missile battery was wearing a Ukrainian uniform.

Have you seen a Ukrainian uniform?

Have you compared it with other kinds of uniforms?

To ID a Ukr uniform with any degree of precision you'd need to resolve, by satellite, images to within a cm or two. Moreover, you'd have to see the arm from the side.

Otherwise they look just like little green men. Even when you look at them in a full screen view, the two uniforms really look similar.

You know the "little green men." They're the people in Crimea that Putin denied were Russian military and then, after the fact, praised as Russian military for doing such a great job.

He doesn't need people to be convinced he's okay. He just needs there to be insufficient proof to show that he's not okay beyond a reasonable doubt.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
55. Anything can be disputed, but the Intel Community has not disputed Parry's
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:23 PM
Jul 2014

claims so far, have they?

Did you read the article btw? Did you read the LAT article on the same subject?

Did you say the same things about Sy Herch when HE revealed the torture of Iraqis BEFORE the story was proven to be true by the photos? I remember well how Hersch was attacked back then. Both he and Parry were proven to to be right about almost everything related to the Iraq War lies.



jeff47

(26,549 posts)
38. Nope.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:25 PM
Jul 2014

The only person making the claim about Ukrainian military uniforms is Parry. Who says he heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy.

It also ignores that Ukrainian uniforms and Russian uniforms are nearly identical, and that the separatists are wearing whatever was handy, including Russian and Ukrainian uniforms.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
39. Wrong again. Parry is late in covering this information. It has been everywhere, EXCEPT
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jul 2014

the corporate media. You really should check things before you post.

Post a link to YOUR 'findings', I haven't heard even the CTs on the Corporate Media make such claims, YET.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
46. Why do you think lying makes your argument better?
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jul 2014

Here's the thread where the uniforms comes up. It's the first mention, and everyone in the thread talks about how fantastic Parry is for finding this information.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025268517

Now you're claiming Parry didn't find the information first, based on it making Parry sound better.

Why do you think lying makes your argument stronger?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
50. I am claiming that the information from Parry, has been published
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jul 2014

not just by him. I am asking those slamming this award winning journalist to address the information in the article, rather than the knee jerk attacks on HIM.

Sy Hersch, Parry, are well respected and well known to have sources inside the Intel community which is why when either of them publishes a story like this, it is taken SERIOUSLY. Except by a few wackos on the right who similarly reacted to Sy Hersch's report on torture, eg, using HIS sources before they became public with the actual photos.

So forgive me if when I see someone like Sy Hersch, as I did, attacked, as I did, or someone like Parry, which I did, and am incredibly seeing again HERE, I will respond, as I always have considering their both their records of being PROVEN RIGHT throughout the past decade of lies and deceptions, in their defense.

Parry has inside sources, as did Sy Hersch. Sick to death of the lies and deceptions, now creeping onto even formerly fact seeking forums like this one.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
51. And that claim is the lie.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:09 PM
Jul 2014

Alternatively, that other story and thread are a lie.

Pick one. You are lying now, or all those other people, including Parry, were lying then.

I am asking those slamming this award winning journalist to address the information in the article, rather than the knee jerk attacks on HIM.

We already did. In that other thread, where we demonstrated the "uniform" claim is laughable. Both because uniforms don't prove who is with which force during a rebellion, and because any scenario where the separatists are not the ones shooting has enormous holes. For example, that scenario requires the separatists were protecting the Ukrainian government by blocking access to the site.

Now, Parry has a new story, trying to explain how he wasn't wrong about the uniforms in his first story. If he's such a stellar journalist, how come he 1) didn't issue a correction and 2) didn't figure out the uniform claim had problems before he wrote the first story?

Parry did good work in the past. So did the NYT. Good work in the past does not guarantee good work forever.

Sick to death of the lies and deceptions, now creeping onto even formerly fact seeking forums like this one.

Well, you could do your part by not lying.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
54. You didn't read the article, did you? Parry's article follows the briefing of journalists, AND
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jul 2014

the LAT story on the briefing, wherein they 'deduced' FROM THE BRIEFING that those images showing the missile launcher being operated by people in what appear to be Unkraine uniforms, COULD be a DEFECTOR from the Ukraine military. Iow, they heard what he had and surmised it could be explained IF the operator/operators was a defector.

Do not call me a liar.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
56. The first article.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jul 2014

This thread is the second article. i've already provided a link to the previous article.

You are alternating between claiming this article is newer than the older article, or utterly ignoring the existence of the older article.

Do not call me a liar.

Then stop lying.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
60. Here, let me be clear. If Parry is the original source of ANY story, there is a 99%
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 11:17 PM
Jul 2014

chance that is true. There WAS a briefing, did you not know that? The LAT has surmised, they do not know, that the Ukraine uniformed individual wearing the Ukraine army, that would be the Kiev military who are killing their own people in Eastern Ukraine, may be a deserter from the Ukraine military. The LAT is not disputing the fact the US Intel community has stated that they have viewed video of the missile being launched, by persons dressed in Ukraine military garb.

You call everyone a liar who doesn't try to fit YOUR narrative. Even highly respected, certainly on the Left due to his record, journalists like Parry.

The fact is this story IS being reported, AS I SAID, and so far there has been no official response denying it.

Do not call me a liar.

IF Parry was the ONLY source for this story, I would be 100% certain it is true. His reputation as a journalist is THAT GOOD.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
24. Of course he doesn't. Lol, he's a JOURNALIST, he, like the Corporate Media has
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:35 PM
Jul 2014

no evidence but unlike the Corporate Media he isn't making stuff up. What he is doing, is looking at what is known, such as our Intel, and this has reported elsewhere, saw people wearing Ukraine uniforms operating the missile launcher. Is that what you are disputing, you didn't say what you dispute.

Our Corporate Media, rather than wait to identify who these people are, 'speculated' that the leader is a 'defector'. That is what Parry is addressing, the speculation.

Btw, did you read the article?

malaise

(268,693 posts)
16. I'm with Parry
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 03:12 PM
Jul 2014
abandon the kind of "group think" that brought us the Iraq War and conduct a "serious and impartial investigation"

That simple. The Dutch are taking this approach. Trust none and wait for the facts.

I find it hysterically funny listening to corporate hacks suggesting that the Russians are pushing propaganda. What's the West pushing???

Same shit, different day.
I have never been a member of the sheeple.
Cogito ergo sum!!!

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
42. Ya know, these attempts are pretty damn pathetic.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:36 PM
Jul 2014

Things that are not in question, thanks to the laws of physics:
-The plane crashed in separatist territory.
-The launcher was in separatist territory - from where the plane crashed, we know that Ukrainian government territory is out of range of where the plane crashed.

Option 1: The separatists fired a missile from their territory, mistaking the passenger plane for a military transport. They've used the same missiles to shoot down other Ukrainian military planes.

Option 2: The Ukrainian army sent a large invasion force in order to push deep into separatist territory, without anyone mentioning it - no Ukrainian government claims, no separatist claims, no civilians saying "The government just took over". And despite the fact that the separatists have no aircraft, the Ukrainians sent a SAM launcher. Which they then fired at the commercial plane, which was flying an unusual route, so the Ukrainians could not have anticipated it would have flown overhead.

Then the Ukrainian army retreated from the separatist territory. Again with no mention of the retreat by anyone - no separatists announcing that they are pushing the government back or any civilians saying "the government just left again". That allowed the separatists to hold the crash site.

After taking the crash site, the separatists blocked access to the wreck and the bodies, in order to protect the Ukrainian government. Instead of using the shoot-down for a massive political victory that would greatly help their rebellion.

If you're clinging to the possibility of option 2, you're not wanting to conduct a "serious and impartial investigation". Your political beliefs are clouding your judgement.

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
33. I wonder what the RUB/USD exchange rate is these days.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jul 2014

Anyone have Parry's e-mail?

I'll ask him that and show him the sad scenes in The Netherlands his friends caused:

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
40. Using that 'ruble' thing again? Is that a talking point, if so, it's a big fail.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:33 PM
Jul 2014

Laughable to think that Parry, who has witnessed more tragic wars and their aftermath than I'm guessing you could even imagine, has not seen those tragic pictures. You seem to USING them, which imo is pretty reprehensible. I know for a fact that in that country, which still places such value on human life, a post such as yours, filled with disrespectful snark using the victims as a political tool, would be devastating to them. I hope none of the read ever stumble on comments such as this. Having experience losses such as theirs, I know how such comments can hurt the loved ones whose emotions right now are so raw.

Please do all of us a favor and do not use these tragic victims for the purpose of mocking anyone.

RIP to all those who have died and peace to their loved ones!

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
44. Only a loathsome individual would give cover to the perpetrators of such a heinous crime.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jul 2014

It's sad that he has witnessed all of that and has pivoted toward being on the wrong side of history.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
48. 'Only a loathsome individual' would use the victims of such a terrible tragedy to lie
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jul 2014

about a great journalist who has dedicated his life to TRUTH and FACTS.

You have not said one word about the actual article, nor referred to one word of what he is saying.

So other than attempting, and failing miserably because you are on DU where Parry is a known and credible source for years, what exactly is it you are disputing in this article?

Attacking the messenger doesn't go over very well here, absent some intelligent presentation of facts to dispute what the messenger is saying.

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
49. I followed the link and found no "actual" articles, or FACTual for that matter.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:47 PM
Jul 2014


Now time to run an antivirus... the design looked a little sketchy.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
57. It's appeal to authority plus he's telling a story that fits with their political opinions. (nt)
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:32 PM
Jul 2014

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. So when the first version of Parry's story fell apart, he decided
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:19 PM
Jul 2014

to post a new version to cover for his errors.

And we're supposed to be impressed with his journalism because........?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
41. You didn't read the article, did you? Hint, it isn't HIS version of the story!
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:36 PM
Jul 2014

Parry is an excellent journalist as most democrats know.

Read the article, you are embarrassing yourself at this point.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
45. He is the one telling it. That makes it his story.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jul 2014
Read the article, you are embarrassing yourself at this point.

No, the people insisting that politics trumps basic physics are the ones doing the embarrassing.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
58. So you don't understand what "sources" are then.
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 05:38 PM
Jul 2014

Nor the difference between an article that reports on something and an editorial. Okay.

More attacking the messenger rather than discussing what is being said. And calling sabrina1 a liar on more than one occasion is lunacy.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
59. You mean the basis of all of Judith Miller's reporting?
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 08:42 PM
Jul 2014

Yes, quoting sources is always the best reporting.

Parry should have taken a moment to think "Does this story make sense?". Apparently, he didn't.

Ignore all the claims about who had what missile, and who detected what, or all the other claims that aren't instantly provable. You're left with the separatists blocking access to the site - there is absolutely no dispute that the separatists were blocking investigators at the time. Which means if his source's story was true, the separatists were protecting the Ukrainian government.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Which means he should have doubted the source instead of being a stenographer.

Now we get a new story where he's claiming his original story was true, but now we can read the mind of the operators and tell that they were defectors. And his original story is fine, even though this new story utterly annihilates the premise of the first story - that Ukraine fired the missile.

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
36. Parry isn't quoting Russian propaganda
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:22 PM
Jul 2014

He's quoting his intelligence sources and the LA Times. I wonder if they're the same sources he had during the Iran/Contra scandal.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
43. Thanks, the knee jerk responses in this thread are an embarrassment to this site
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jul 2014

as clearly they did not even read the article. Thanks for restoring my faith in DU that we do still have members who actually READ before they jump.

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