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doxydad

(1,363 posts)
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:26 AM Jul 2014

Sheriff Smashes Car Window to Rescue Overheated Dogs

When temperatures skyrocket, hot cars become death traps for helpless dogs. Responsible pet owners know that leaving dogs in overheated cars is a form of animal cruelty. But unfortunately, it keeps happening.

On Monday, a sheriff in Indio, Calif., discovered two dogs locked inside a Smart Car parked outside of a county court building. At the time, the outside temperature had climbed to nearly 100 degrees.

Thankfully, the sheriff acted quickly and smashed the car’s windows to rescue and retrieve the dogs. Both dogs, which are terriers, were rushed to a veterinary hospital for treatment. The temperature inside the car measured 134 degrees at the time of the rescue.

According to Riverside County Animal Services, the dogs drank immediately when they were offered water, and their body temperatures were able to regulate.

http://www.pet360.com/dog/lifestyle/sheriff-smashes-car-window-to-rescue-overheated-dogs

OP NOTE: I would do the same thing, so should you!! Please watch for this kind of abuse! People are forgetful and the animals suffer!

109 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sheriff Smashes Car Window to Rescue Overheated Dogs (Original Post) doxydad Jul 2014 OP
I would do the same. No hesitation. SammyWinstonJack Jul 2014 #1
You should call 911 or animal control gerogie2 Jul 2014 #2
I disagree! doxydad Jul 2014 #3
Good for you! pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #4
Correct. Reporter demonstrates hot car dangers............. doxydad Jul 2014 #6
You're a hero MissDeeds Jul 2014 #35
Depending on where you live, Animal Control can be very slow to respond... joeybee12 Jul 2014 #56
What if there was a child in that car? Would you break the law then? Divernan Jul 2014 #7
If it was a child I would call 911 also. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #8
In a life-and-death emergency you'd be afraid to break a window? pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #9
I'm not the police or fire dept. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #11
That is incorrect! doxydad Jul 2014 #15
Not omnipresent, and they vary widely Orrex Jul 2014 #27
3 things: doxydad Jul 2014 #29
Three things Orrex Jul 2014 #32
Imagine what you are teaching your children treestar Jul 2014 #37
They'll learn a great lesson when we lose house and car and I lose my job Orrex Jul 2014 #42
Why would you lose your job? treestar Jul 2014 #44
What makes you think that it's an assumption? Orrex Jul 2014 #51
1 - the penalty would not happen treestar Jul 2014 #60
Are you an attorney? If not, then you're making shit up. Orrex Jul 2014 #61
A car window cost 1-300 bucks, LOL snooper2 Jul 2014 #69
Send me $300, and I'll break the window Orrex Jul 2014 #70
Yes- you can take this reply as a note of good faith- If you find yourself in the situation do it snooper2 Jul 2014 #72
As far as I'm concerned, that's all there is to it. Orrex Jul 2014 #74
K, found the hot dog snooper2 Jul 2014 #76
SMASH! Orrex Jul 2014 #77
A car window barely costs as much as a house. And why would you lose your job? cui bono Jul 2014 #93
Show me the exact law that protects me from all repercussions Orrex Jul 2014 #95
Show me the exact statute/provision that states you would lose your job, car and house in that order cui bono Jul 2014 #97
In other words, you have no idea whether I would face litigation or prosecution Orrex Jul 2014 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author cui bono Jul 2014 #103
I guarantee... doxydad Jul 2014 #40
I'm sure you don't care, but I simply don't believe you Orrex Jul 2014 #45
He does not practise in PA... doxydad Jul 2014 #50
call 911 AND BREAK THE WINDOW. pansypoo53219 Jul 2014 #106
Ask your lawyer friend if it may matter who owns the car? What is the condition of the A Simple Game Jul 2014 #39
I think the vast majority of us here would err on the side of life and take our chances. nt pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #43
Wow. So you would knowingly allow an animal to die when you could have easily saved it? cui bono Jul 2014 #92
Show me the exact law that protects me from all repercussions Orrex Jul 2014 #94
Show me the exact proof that said repurcussion would occur. cui bono Jul 2014 #98
I'm asking people to justify their insistence that I destroy someone else's property Orrex Jul 2014 #101
Easily is if the door is unlocked.. pipoman Jul 2014 #102
Conscience does make cowards of us all. n/t geomon666 Aug 2014 #109
ROFLMAO.... snooper2 Jul 2014 #58
snooper2, if I ever see you in distress and a there's a window between us Skittles Jul 2014 #88
Why can't you... pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #90
I suppose you have never taken a CPR class then, or would not save a drowning child? uppityperson Jul 2014 #75
So you'd just sit there and wait while a kid cooked? Not knowing how long the wait is? 7962 Jul 2014 #10
The "Good Samaritan" laws allow you to take action. Divernan Jul 2014 #12
I would call 911 gerogie2 Jul 2014 #13
That is your choice. Better hope you never need immediate assistance! Divernan Jul 2014 #16
I would take action. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #20
This has to be some kind of reverse psychology schtick pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #22
Look there are other demented people that call 911 gerogie2 Jul 2014 #24
No doubt many people are both proud of, and defend their apathy. LanternWaste Jul 2014 #57
If I was apathetic gerogie2 Jul 2014 #62
That's a creative way to rationalize a lack of relevant action... but not much else. LanternWaste Jul 2014 #63
When this happened... gerogie2 Jul 2014 #65
We allege what we can to make ourselves appear better to others when necessary.... LanternWaste Jul 2014 #66
Very strange... pinboy3niner Jul 2014 #68
You should be ashamed sorefeet Jul 2014 #21
K&R doxydad Jul 2014 #31
hmmm, child's death on my hands or take law into my hands... eShirl Jul 2014 #30
I would do something. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #48
Really? Swede Atlanta Jul 2014 #33
I did take action. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #47
Are you for real? MissDeeds Jul 2014 #38
Yes. gerogie2 Jul 2014 #46
I am sorry for you MissDeeds Jul 2014 #49
The poster is fishing HangOnKids Jul 2014 #67
I was wondering about that MissDeeds Jul 2014 #71
So afrer calling 911 sarisataka Jul 2014 #64
The law has nothing to do with saving someone's life. arcane1 Jul 2014 #82
why do you keep saying you hopemountain Jul 2014 #105
Would not break ANY law. doxydad Jul 2014 #14
Wrong. Minutes are the difference between life and death Warpy Jul 2014 #78
Yep. I'll call 9-11 and wait for help the next time I see someone drowning. Or not. dballance Jul 2014 #81
It isn't taking the law into your own hands. whopis01 Jul 2014 #86
mmmmmm I will have to disagree here Skittles Jul 2014 #87
No. You should break the window. It is legal to do so in California if a dog or child is in there. cui bono Jul 2014 #91
It would be helpful if you could cite the exact statute Orrex Jul 2014 #96
I would call 911 and while on the whistler162 Jul 2014 #104
Smart Car because the owners were not! liberal N proud Jul 2014 #5
I've done the same thing. ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #17
AMEN! doxydad Jul 2014 #18
Thank goodness for people like you MissDeeds Jul 2014 #41
It took her 3 days to post bond. ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #52
That is awesome MissDeeds Jul 2014 #54
IL is rated first in the nation by the AVMA, in terms of animal welfare laws. ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #59
I saw that once in school shenmue Jul 2014 #19
'smart' car with stupid owners tomm2thumbs Jul 2014 #23
Yeah..BUT.. doxydad Jul 2014 #25
Interesting moral rorshach here. Fairgo Jul 2014 #34
And people say there aren't ever posts about good cops on DU. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #26
I'd do it in a heartbeat KinMd Jul 2014 #28
GOOD! MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #36
A Smart Car? Why didn't he just pick it up and take it inside where it was cooler? tularetom Jul 2014 #53
Because he's an asshole. Next question. n/t DRoseDARs Jul 2014 #107
I am appalled.... CherokeeDem Jul 2014 #55
Great post, CherokeeDem MissDeeds Jul 2014 #73
Consider it a form of civil disobedience and saving a life. nilesobek Jul 2014 #79
You should absolutely assess the situation and take the requisite action.... Swede Atlanta Jul 2014 #80
In some states, failure to act could in fact place you in jeopardy of being charged with being an ac COLGATE4 Jul 2014 #83
If I saw ANYTHING dying in someones locked car, I would take matters into my own hands. Rex Jul 2014 #84
Here's a smart idea to this troubling problem: doxydad Jul 2014 #85
I'd do that too, why is it being discussed? 2banon Jul 2014 #89
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #99
Still debated but not enough solutions. newton2207 Aug 2014 #108

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
3. I disagree!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:44 AM
Jul 2014

That is incorrect action!

By the time animal control shows up, those pooches could be dead. I busted out a window of a 'Starbucks Queen' who thought more of her own selfish lifestyle than her little guy.

I regret nothing, and she had to pay for damage to her own car. I never heard another word about it, and the officer who showed up 12 minutes after the call...yeah...12 minutes later, told me I was CORRECT in my actions.

Score one for this old dog!

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
4. Good for you!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:50 AM
Jul 2014

If your're going to call instead of act in the OP's case, you may as well report "Dead dogs in car." Under those conditions--100 outside and 134 inside --there is no time to waste.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
6. Correct. Reporter demonstrates hot car dangers.............
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:58 AM
Jul 2014

Reporter George Solis set out to find out just how hot it can get inside a locked car here in Florida and how quickly things can turn deadly. He took a thermometer and experienced the heat first hand.

In an hour, temperatures inside an enclosed car can spike well over 120 degrees.

Scott Tuttle, with Lee County EMS, says anyone left inside is essentially left in an oven.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/22687248/reporter-demonstrates-hot-car-dangers

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
35. You're a hero
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:13 AM
Jul 2014

plain and simple. I would do the same thing. I don't know how could anyone could stand and watch a trapped animal suffer and perhaps die while waiting for law enforcement.



 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
56. Depending on where you live, Animal Control can be very slow to respond...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jul 2014

Or not respond at all to this kind of situation...I'd smash the window, too.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
7. What if there was a child in that car? Would you break the law then?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:59 AM
Jul 2014

THINK about it! Think for yourself!

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
9. In a life-and-death emergency you'd be afraid to break a window?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:11 AM
Jul 2014

Do you even hear the words that are coming out of your keyboard?

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
11. I'm not the police or fire dept.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:19 AM
Jul 2014

They handle all emergency situations in my city. I have no authority to do anything.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
15. That is incorrect!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:35 AM
Jul 2014
They handle all emergency situations in my city. I have no authority to do anything.

That is incorrect. See GOOD SAMARITAN rules, they are omnipresent in any situation. Diverman has posted them, thanks.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
27. Not omnipresent, and they vary widely
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:37 AM
Jul 2014

Many jurisdictions don't protect civilian samaritans from repercussions of their goodness, for example. I also note that
Pennsylvania doesn't appear in Divernan's linked document...

Would I break a closed car window to rescue an animal on a hot day? Probably not.

Would I break a closed car window to rescue a child on a hot day? Almost certainly yes.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
29. 3 things:
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jul 2014

1. If you break out a window, REGARDLESS OF THE AREA, what kind of judge would charge you with damaging a vehicle to rescue an animal?

NOT ONE...ANYWHERE. *

There is nothing I can find on the net about a judge that would impose some sort of punishment on a Good Samaritan. The media would have a field day and the judge would basically be done for. ( EXCEPTION": Texas...because...Gohmerting).


2. My lawyer friend just IM'd me saying that this is a universal rule. After 37 years of being a defense attorney, he told me that he would LOVE to take up the case of someone saving ANY life, ...regardless of ANY State. *

3.And on a personal OP note,, goddamnit, why wouldn't you save a life of a li'l buddy? Whatzzamattah witcha? Tell you what, this ever comes up, stand up and be that person, Orrex. Be that person!

*( See Gohmerting, above)

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
32. Three things
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jul 2014
1. If you break out a window, REGARDLESS OF THE AREA, what kind of judge would charge you with damaging a vehicle to rescue an animal?
If I must choose between calling 911 or acting to protect an animal in a way that may subject me to substantial liability and litigation, then I'm calling 911. Unless you can guarantee me that I will be free of penalty or repercussion or that you will compensate me for time spent in litigation and pay all court costs, attorney's fees and penalties, then it would be irresponsible of me to intervene directly. Sorry, but that's how reality works.

2. My lawyer friend just IM'd me saying that this is a universal rule. After 37 years of being a defense attorney, he told me that he would LOVE to take up the case of someone saving ANY life, ...regardless of ANY State. *
Your lawyer friend IM'd you? On a reliability scale, that ranks somewhere below "what I read spray painted on a manhole cover." Have your lawyer provide specific statutes that specifically shield me from harm for damaging property to access an animal, and we'll talk. Otherwise, unless your lawyer friend can guarantee me that I will be free of penalty or repercussion or that they'll compensate me for time spent in litigation and pay all court costs, attorney's fees and penalties, then it would be irresponsible of me to intervene directly.

And if this rule is universal, why did the linked PDF omit Pennsylvania? Ohio? Kansas?

3.And on a personal OP note,, goddamnit, why wouldn't you save a life of a li'l buddy? Whatzzamattah witcha? Tell you what, this ever comes up, stand up and be that person, Orrex. Be that person!
i'm the sole income for a family of four. I'm sorry that some asshole locked his dog in an oven, but unless you can guarantee me that I will be free of penalty or repercussion or that you will compensate me for time spent in litigation and pay all court costs, attorney's fees and penalties, then it would be irresponsible of me to intervene directly.


Of course, if we're talking about a child locked in a car, that's very different, and I would almost certainly break the window. But a dog? Well, the cops will be here shortly.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
37. Imagine what you are teaching your children
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:18 AM
Jul 2014

about the value of life, rather than just the dollar signs.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
42. They'll learn a great lesson when we lose house and car and I lose my job
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:26 AM
Jul 2014

Look, I can't afford to live in your rose-colored pollyanna vision of the world, just for the sake of some other asshole's dog.

I value my family's well-being and security over the animal that got locked in a car. Imagine what I'd be teaching my children if I said "to hell with our lives and your future--I'm going to smash this window."

treestar

(82,383 posts)
44. Why would you lose your job?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:30 AM
Jul 2014

That's an extravagant assumption. And you'd teach your kids your whole life could go down the toilet for doing one good act?

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
51. What makes you think that it's an assumption?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:44 AM
Jul 2014

If I am subject to civil penalty as a result of breaking the window, then my finances will be crippled, and I will almost certainly lose my car. Absent a car, I will lose my job. This is not an assumption; it's a fact.

If I am subject to criminal penalty as a result of breaking the window, then I will lose my job. This is not an assumption; it's a fact.

If I lose my job, then I will be unable to maintain a car. Losing the car, it is unlikely that I will secure employment sufficient to obtain a new car. This is not an assumption; it's based on direct personal experience.

If I lose my job and my car, it is also likely that I will be unable to maintain our home. Being homeless with no car and no job, it is unlikely that I will be able to secure employment to remedy this situation. This likewise is not an assumption.

While we're at it, it would be interesting to see what the state thinks of my parental fitness while I'm languishing homeless, carless and jobless with criminal and/or civil penalties hanging over my head.

And you'd teach your kids your whole life could go down the toilet for doing one good act?
Don't be naive. I would teach them the value of proportionate response, which is a much more useful lesson. A minor good act does not outweigh months and years of hardship.

If you can guarantee that I would face no penalty for breaking that window, then I'd break it. Absent that guarantee, then I'll be happy to stand by to witness your display of heroic abandon.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. 1 - the penalty would not happen
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:23 PM
Jul 2014

2 - even if it did, it would not be that bad.

You're living in a very dreary world. By the time you get to your fourth paragraph, the exaggeration is ridiculous.

Breaking property vs. saving a life - your sense of proportion there is way off.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
61. Are you an attorney? If not, then you're making shit up.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:49 PM
Jul 2014

If you can't cite for me the exact statute by which I could claim immunity for damaging property (the car) to access property (the animal), then you're making shit up.

I've read through several phrasings of the relevant statute, and I can find nothing that gives me the right to damage property to access an animal. Pennsylvania's law is rather more specific than you seem to want to pretend. Please cite for me the exact text that indemnifies me from liability for damaging property to access an animal.

If you can't provide that text, then please admit that you're making shit up.

It may be the case that "the penalty would not happen", and it may be the case that "it would not be that bad," but you have no basis for asserting this outside of your own wishful thinking. Your argument is based on what you hope would happen in the wake of civil and criminal action following my choice to damage someone's property.

You're living in a very dreary world.
And you are fortunate to be able to pretend that the world is the rosy place you imagine it to be.

Breaking property vs. saving a life - your sense of proportion there is way off.
Accessing a dog vs. the very real possibility of serious longterm hardship for my family and me? I'd say that my sense of proportion is right on target, thanks.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
70. Send me $300, and I'll break the window
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jul 2014

And you'll also foot the bill for any related court costs and litigation?

$300 might not sound like a lot for the privilege of smashing someone's property, and if that's how you want to spend your money they I say go on with your bad self.

I'm sure that the bank will be sympathetic when I tell them why I can't pay my loan installment this month.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
72. Yes- you can take this reply as a note of good faith- If you find yourself in the situation do it
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jul 2014

I'll pay at least $300 directly to you to compensate the vehicles owners and I'm sure we could get all of your costs from any litigation pooled from few hundred DU'ers.


So, now you are covered. Feel free to break said window.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
74. As far as I'm concerned, that's all there is to it.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:51 PM
Jul 2014

Now find me a hot dog, and I'll break the window.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
93. A car window barely costs as much as a house. And why would you lose your job?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:22 AM
Jul 2014

And really, you think the person whose pets you saved would press charges? Might happen, but the odds are slim to none. At most they might demand the window be replaced.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
95. Show me the exact law that protects me from all repercussions
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 10:00 AM
Jul 2014

I've already spelled out the sequence. If I face criminal penalties for breaking the law, I lose my job first, and then my car and house in that order, once I can no longer make payments on them.

I do not enjoy a robust financial life. If I face a civil penalty for breaking the window, I will likely lose my car, after which I will lose my job (when I can no longer get there) and thereafter will lose my house.

Pennsylvania's "good samaritan" law doesn't shield me from harm for destroying someone's property (the window) to save that person's property (the dog). I will call 911 (though it's unclear that cops will break the window either) or I will notify the management of the retail site where the dog-baking car is parked (though I know from experience that they're unlikely to do anything but page the owner and/or call 911).

Are you an attorney practicing in Pennsylvania? If not, then you're simply guessing about the specific penalties that I might face, and your guesswork is meaningless.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
97. Show me the exact statute/provision that states you would lose your job, car and house in that order
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:59 PM
Jul 2014

While there are instances of common sense being thrown to the wind in this country's judicial system, I highly doubt all of that would happen from one act of breaking a window to save a life.

Has this happened to you? Do you have a reference of this having happened to someone? If not, they you are engaging in guesswork yourself.

What is clear though, is the value you do - or do not - place on life.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
100. In other words, you have no idea whether I would face litigation or prosecution
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jul 2014

Thanks, but I'll err on the side of caution.

Court fees & attorney's fees are sufficiently burdensome to subject me to significant financial hardship, in addition to any financial judgments against me.

If I were subject to criminal penalty, I would lose my job. That's not because of statute but because of my job's requirements. I would subsequently lose my car and house when I am no longer able to make payments on them. The job market in western PA is not strong enough to make me believe that I could readily step into a job that would pay my current income.

Having gone down that road for other reasons previously, I don't care to do it again for the sake of some asshole's dog. Unless you're offering to support me and my family for the next year or two, then I invite you to shove your self-righteousness where the dog don't bark.

What is clear though, is the value you do - or do not - place on life.
That's an idiotic statement. Tell me exactly why I should value some asshole's dog more than the years of financial hardship you would require me to inflict upon my family.


And even though you've provided nothing except a dose of preachy moralism, here's the relevant statute. Depending on the extent of the damage, I could face either a felony or misdemeanor charge and one to seven years in jail, plus fines.

For some asshole's dog.

Response to Orrex (Reply #100)

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
40. I guarantee...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:25 AM
Jul 2014
I'm sorry that some asshole locked his dog in an oven, but unless you can guarantee me that I will be free of penalty or repercussion or that you will compensate me for time spent in litigation and pay all court costs, attorney's fees and penalties, then it would be irresponsible of me to intervene directly.

My gawd...seriously?

IF This ever comes up...ever, please grab someone who is not afraid to do the right thing. I GUARANTEE...that if indeed you do this, I will gladly come and get you out of ANY liability involved. The press will hail me as a hero, and your unfounded hand wringing worries will immediately dissipate. But PLEASE , if you feel that you cannot inject yourself to save somebody's pet, let someone who is more courageous do the job. Do not hinder that person. There's enough people like myself...millions of other caring individuals who would not think a whit before busting in to save an animal's life.

And, I sent your reply to my lawyer buddy....he agrees with me 100%.

Alas, we cannot all be heroes to animals, I understand that. I just find that truly bizarre. I hope that your financial condition improves! have a great day.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
45. I'm sure you don't care, but I simply don't believe you
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:31 AM
Jul 2014
And, I sent your reply to my lawyer buddy....he agrees with me 100%.
Lovely. Have him provide the exact case history in Pennsylvania law guaranteeing that I will be free of liability for destroying property to rescue an animal. Otherwise, he has a great future as a bridge-seller.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
50. He does not practise in PA...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:40 AM
Jul 2014

But brought up a great point that the ASPCA and the PA Humane Society DOES practice law there...thinking now that you worry for nothing? OK, I gotta go to work, have a great day!

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
39. Ask your lawyer friend if it may matter who owns the car? What is the condition of the
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:23 AM
Jul 2014

animal? Has the car been there for a minute or an hour?

Would you break the window if the animal showed no signs of distress or call a cop? Would you break the window if you knew the car was the police chief's wife's car or call a cop? How about the local judge's brother's car? Do good Samaritan laws even cover animals?

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
92. Wow. So you would knowingly allow an animal to die when you could have easily saved it?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:19 AM
Jul 2014

tsk, tsk.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
98. Show me the exact proof that said repurcussion would occur.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jul 2014

You're asking people for proof of protection against your made up repercussions.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
101. I'm asking people to justify their insistence that I destroy someone else's property
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jul 2014

They have claimed that the "good samaritan" law will protect me, but this is a lie.

They have claimed that I am unlikely to face penalty, but they have offered no evidence.

When I locked my keys in my car, 911 told me that cops won't help me break in unless a child is locked inside.
"What if there's a dog inside?" I asked.
"Not unless there's also a child," I was told.
So if the cops won't break the window, why the fuck should I listen to internet proselytizers who insist that it's a-ok to do so?

What we have is a bunch of sanctimonious keyboard moralists passing judgment on anyone who doesn't care to screw himself over for the sake of somebody else's dog.


Are you a vegan, by the way?

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
102. Easily is if the door is unlocked..
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:06 PM
Jul 2014

Car windows are another thing...you probably won't be breaking it with your hand.

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
88. snooper2, if I ever see you in distress and a there's a window between us
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:22 PM
Jul 2014

I will kick window ass to assist you; yes INDEED

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
10. So you'd just sit there and wait while a kid cooked? Not knowing how long the wait is?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:11 AM
Jul 2014

Boy, I hope nothing bad happens near you. You'd be no help at all.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
12. The "Good Samaritan" laws allow you to take action.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:25 AM
Jul 2014

Look, it's been decades since we covered this topic in my law school education, but I looked up this link (current - June, 2014) for you, which basically explains it in layman's terms and spells it out, state by state.

http://ggweather.com/heat/good_samaritan_laws.pdf


STATE GOOD SAMARITAN LAWS -1-
State Good Samaritan Laws
June 2014
Too many kids die in hot cars, either left behind by parents
and caregivers or by going into an unlocked car. People who
walk by a car and see a child in it alone on a warm day can
help prevent tragedies. But a survey of parents by Public
Opinion Strategies for Safe Kids showed that many people
are worried about getting involved in such an incident. Some
say they are hesitant because they fear a lawsuit.
Please don’t let that be a reason to stop you.
The large
majority of states have a law giving people immunity from a
lawsuit if they act to protect a life or answer an emergency.
The keys to many of the laws are acting:

In good faith.

Not for compensation or looking for a fee.

Without gross negligence or misconduct.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
16. That is your choice. Better hope you never need immediate assistance!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:36 AM
Jul 2014

The law does not oblige you to take action. I would like to think that this is your response to a hypothetical situation, but if you were in reality faced with another human being in danger of death, that you have enough decency and humanity to take action.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
20. I would take action.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:51 AM
Jul 2014

I would call 911. I'm not a trained police officer, firefighter or paramedic. I let the professionals do there job.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
22. This has to be some kind of reverse psychology schtick
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:00 AM
Jul 2014

Nobody here would seriously suggest that only a responder has the authority and training to break a window to save a life. Nobody here is that clueless and demented.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
24. Look there are other demented people that call 911
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:14 AM
Jul 2014
A Davenport woman has been charged with a felony count of endangering the life and health of a child after she was allegedly left her infant son in the back seat of a vehicle in extreme heat Tuesday morning in front of a Dollar General store at 2010 36th Ave., Moline.
Police said that after someone called 911, they discovered a 6-month-old boy in a baby carrier, secured into the rear seat of a 2001 Ford Taurus.
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
57. No doubt many people are both proud of, and defend their apathy.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jul 2014

No doubt many people are both proud of, and defend their apathy. It's a convenient thing.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
62. If I was apathetic
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jul 2014

apathy is a lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.

I wouldn't call 911 when I saw a kid or dog in a hot car. I would just go shopping or catch the bus to go home.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
63. That's a creative way to rationalize a lack of relevant action... but not much else.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:38 PM
Jul 2014

That's a creative way to rationalize a lack of relevant action... but not much else. However, no doubt you would allege enthusiasm should the need arise.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
66. We allege what we can to make ourselves appear better to others when necessary....
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:48 PM
Jul 2014

We often allege what we can to make ourselves appear better to others when necessary...

However, breaking a window takes little special training, and carries even less risk.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
68. Very strange...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jul 2014

...that it took 8 hours after joining the thread for the poster to mention it. Very strange...

sorefeet

(1,241 posts)
21. You should be ashamed
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:59 AM
Jul 2014

of your comments. I hope no person or animal dies because of you. Are you scared of getting in trouble???????????????????

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
31. K&R
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:51 AM
Jul 2014

Goota kick this great reply, some of these DUers ain't getting the message, thanks for posting this, Divernan!

eShirl

(18,490 posts)
30. hmmm, child's death on my hands or take law into my hands...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jul 2014

I'm pretty sure I could live with myself knowing I took the law into my hands to save a life, rather than not damaging someone's car window.




 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
33. Really?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jul 2014

Most states have fairly strict animal cruelty laws and certainly have very strict child cruelty laws.

If you did not take action and the animal or child died or subsequently had suffered severe health issues as a result you could be prosecuted as an accomplice to animal or child cruelty. You had knowledge an animal or child was being harmed and could have taken immediate action when immediate action was needed. It is rare and not applicable in all states but it has been done in several states with success.

I wouldn't wait. I would break in the window, rescue the animals or child and do whatever I felt I had to do to save their lives up to and including giving them water, etc. When I felt I had the situation at least out of danger I would call 911 or if there were others I would have them call 911 as I was taking action.

I would never just break in the window and not call 911. One, you do want to protect yourself from prosecution or suit by ensuring your actions are part of a criminal narrative. As well if the owner/parent did it this time they may not be deterred from doing it again unless there are consequences.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
38. Are you for real?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:20 AM
Jul 2014

You would honestly stand by and hope help arrives in time when you have the opportunity to save a life? God almighty...

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
71. I was wondering about that
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jul 2014

Hard to think anyone could be so cold and heartless.

Thanks for the heads up.

sarisataka

(18,591 posts)
64. So afrer calling 911
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jul 2014

Would you stay there and watch the child die- or maybe be saved in time, or would you go in and continue shopping?

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
105. why do you keep saying you
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:35 PM
Jul 2014

"can't take the law into your own hands?"

there is no law that you cannot save a life.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
14. Would not break ANY law.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:32 AM
Jul 2014

In an emergency, feel free to RESCUE anyone. I prefer the company of dogs over humans, but that would not stop me from RESCUING a child left in the heated car. You can , at your own will, break any window that you feel someone is in danger of dying. There's no law about not doing that. ( Already had this discussion...last summer. )

Warpy

(111,241 posts)
78. Wrong. Minutes are the difference between life and death
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:58 PM
Jul 2014

and you could be waiting hours for animal control, less time for the cops but still too much time.

Bash that window open. If you've got a cell phone, take a picture of the occupants of the car through the intact window.

If the temperature inside the car was "only" 134F, there must have been windows cracked.

Cracking the windows is not enough. I use my car to sterilize any moths, larvae or eggs out of fleece in the summer. It kills all 3. It will kill any living creature inside it except thermophilic organisms, and those only live around volcanic vents.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
81. Yep. I'll call 9-11 and wait for help the next time I see someone drowning. Or not.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:02 PM
Jul 2014

It is most certainly not taking the law into one's own hands to rescue a person or animal from death. It is called humanity. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with it.

whopis01

(3,510 posts)
86. It isn't taking the law into your own hands.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:58 PM
Jul 2014

That is a ridiculous way to characterize such action.

You aren't breaking the window as punishment for committing a crime. You are breaking the window to save the life of the animal.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
91. No. You should break the window. It is legal to do so in California if a dog or child is in there.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:16 AM
Jul 2014

It will be too late if you wait for someone else.

Orrex

(63,199 posts)
96. It would be helpful if you could cite the exact statute
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 11:15 AM
Jul 2014

Pennsylvania doesn't appear to have such a law, so it would be unfortunate if someone broke the law based on a misunderstanding of claims made on DU.

Thanks!

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
5. Smart Car because the owners were not!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:51 AM
Jul 2014

First, I can't imagine driving such a tiny vehicle with two dogs. Can't image what that must have smelled like when they broke the window, two dogs panting from heat exhaustion? People are stupid.

Second, I wouldn't drive such a small car unless it had golf clubs attached to the back.



You don't need to rent a golf cart that way.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
17. I've done the same thing.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:40 AM
Jul 2014

I called 911 and was told that it might be 'several minutes' before an officer could respond. When I told the dispatcher that the dog was not moving, but that it was still breathing, she again said it might take several minutes for an officer to respond, as they were all handling other matters at that time. I told the dispatcher that I didn't think the dog would survive 'several minutes', and that I was going to smash the window with a broken piece of concrete lying nearby, to which she replied, "Do what you need to do". I could almost hear the 'wink, wink' in her voice.

I broke the car window, retrieved the little terrier mix, put him in the shade and poured water on him that another bystander gave me. About 15 minutes later, the police officer arrived, gave me HIS bottle of water, took our oral statements, ran the license plate, called animal control, etc. . About that time, the car's owner emerged from from a nail salon, screeching like some demented harpie about... wait for it... her broken car window!

To make a long story short, I was not arrested, she was arrested (felony animal abuse), the dog was rushed to a vet, survived and was later adopted.

Don't be afraid to do the right thing-- ever!

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
18. AMEN!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:42 AM
Jul 2014

My rescue was not nearly as dramatic, but the li'l guy was saved, and that's the bottom line here. Thanks for educating the DUers today!

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
41. Thank goodness for people like you
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:25 AM
Jul 2014

You did a wonderful thing and saved that poor little pooch. So glad the twit who left the poor dog in her car was arrested. I hope she got to spend some time cooling her heels in jail.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
52. It took her 3 days to post bond.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jul 2014

She plead guilty as part of a plea bargain, and received 4 years' probation (the maximum in IL), a $1000 fine, restitution for the vet bills and adoption fee, and a lifetime ban on owning any domesticated animal. Her story also received a LOT of press coverage.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
59. IL is rated first in the nation by the AVMA, in terms of animal welfare laws.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:09 PM
Jul 2014

We have our problems, but that's one statistic most of us are VERY proud of.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
19. I saw that once in school
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 07:51 AM
Jul 2014

A person parked outside our apartment building. When they didn't come back for a while, and the dog was suffering, we called the police. They pried the door.

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
25. Yeah..BUT..
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:22 AM
Jul 2014

The rescue I was involved in was a Cadillac. So, I don't really care about the vehicle size, per se, as long as you get that l'il guy outa the oven!

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
34. Interesting moral rorshach here.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:12 AM
Jul 2014

How one responds to this straightforward ethical hypothet is a pretty clear indicator of their moral development. It doesn't matter whose dog, breed of dog, age of dog, make of car, or status of the owner. All that matters is the end of suffering and the preservation of life. If no other solution is at the ready, the window goes. How society treats the window breaker is a clear i dicator of the moral development of the society itself.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
26. And people say there aren't ever posts about good cops on DU.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 08:32 AM
Jul 2014

I applaud every good cop that saves a dog, and scorn every bad one who shoots someone's pet.

MynameisBlarney

(2,979 posts)
36. GOOD!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:15 AM
Jul 2014

I take my dog to work with me every day, and if I stop at a store, I leave the windows open and I make a point of not leaving her in the car for more than a couple of minutes. If the line at the register is too long, I leave.

CherokeeDem

(3,709 posts)
55. I am appalled....
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jul 2014

at the posters here who place their own inconvenience over the lives of human or animal. To even think there is enough time to wait for police (or animal control) is irrational. As divernan states, it comes down to 'good faith' and in my opinion the right thing to do.

Years ago, I was in downtown where I live, walking toward my car, when I saw a crowd gathered around a car parked in front of a restaurant. As I got closer I realized people were trying to get the doors open because there was a dog inside, barely responding to them. Someone came out of the restaurant with some large pipe-like thing and began to pound on the side window. He was a slight young man and wasn't making much progress when someone spotted a mounted police officer and flagged him down. The policeman had about a foot in height and fifty pounds on the guy, he took the pipe and in a couple of whacks had the window broken and grabbed the dog, a terrier. Someone from the restaurant brought out ice water and towels, wrapping the little guy in cold towels and after a few minutes, the dog began to respond and drank a bit of water.

The officer started to call for animal control, but a cruiser pulled up and offered to take the dog to the vet. One of the servers from the restaurant rode with him, carrying the dog. The mounted officer asked the crowd a few questions, 'Did you search for the car owner?' They had. 'Did you call 9-11?' They had, that's why the cruiser showed up.' The officer then said, you did everything correctly and if this should ever happen again, send someone to look for the car owner, call us, then do what you have to do.

If you have any compassion for living creatures (human or animal) you will do what you have to do.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
73. Great post, CherokeeDem
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jul 2014

So many people came forward to help that poor dog, it warms my heart.

Thanks for sharing.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
79. Consider it a form of civil disobedience and saving a life.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jul 2014

You smash the idiot's window with no regard for his personal property as he has forfeited those rights, IMO, when he left a child or dog in a hot car. I would cease to be concerned at all for the owner's feelings and "rights."

Who cares about a night or two in jail? If you haven't been in jail in America yet, you are just not getting out enough.

In a way its satisfying to know that the car owner's property has been properly smashed, that he will go to jail, that he will have to pay for expensive auto windows.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
80. You should absolutely assess the situation and take the requisite action....
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jul 2014

If it is an 80 degree day and the car is in the shade and the animal/child don't appear too distressed you MIGHT risk calling 911 and waiting.

But I would suggest you need to go with your gut feel. If you think the animal/child are in imminent risk of serious harm or death you break in the window.

In some states, failure to act could in fact place you in jeopardy of being charged with being an accomplice to child or animal cruelty.

You must take whatever action is necessary in an emergency situation.

Trust me if you break in a car window and rescue an animal or child, when 911 comes they will document what happened. The driver/owner, etc. will the one charged with animal or child cruelty. Only an absolutely insane DA would charge you with a crime.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
83. In some states, failure to act could in fact place you in jeopardy of being charged with being an ac
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:28 PM
Jul 2014

This is the second time you've made this categorical statement. Please provide me with cites to cases that have charged a person as being an accomplice to child or animal cruelty by failing to break into a parked car. I'd love to see the law.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
84. If I saw ANYTHING dying in someones locked car, I would take matters into my own hands.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:30 PM
Jul 2014

I couldn't live with myself, knowing something is suffering and dying and I can do something about it, but won't! That smashed window will be the least of the car owners problems.

newton2207

(1 post)
108. Still debated but not enough solutions.
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 06:35 AM
Aug 2014

I witnessed a guy who parked at a gas station to take a tinkle in the bathroom. I stopped him and said if his dog was going to be ok in the car? He said he'll only be a few minutes cause he had to go take a whiz. I saw he rolled down the windows half way, sunroof half way back and had water for the dog. I decided to keep an eye on the vehicle just in case.

Shortly after a Chevy Suv pulled up and this guy gets out to look at the dog in the car. He asks where is the owner? I told him he went inside to use the bathroom. He literally flipped out about it being against the law and he was going to call 911.

Sure enough after 5 minutes the owner comes out and is confronted by the man in the SUV. The SUV driver basically told the owner of the dog that he should break his windows or lock him inside the car to see how he likes it. And there was absolutely no excuse to leave the dog inside the car as it against the law. I told the guy to take it easy since he was using the bathroom and he told me to shutup.

So really guys....I am really happy the Sheriff was able to save the dogs in the above case. But in this case....what gives? I typically would side on an animal lover wanting to save animals but in this case the hero seems like a bully. SUV driver is probably an animal lover and wants to play hero where dog owner just needed to goto the bathroom and I get that. But the SUV driver's tone of voice was almost threatening. I could tell because the dog suddenly started barking at him. Luckily the attendant told both of them to leave the premises which diffused the situation. I mean that could have turned into a situation where gun control and gun rights advocates could have had it out but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.

It seems instead of solving the problem we pit people against people. And americans vs. americans isn't a pretty sight considering we fight hard in foreign wars. Police officers I have to say are really great as I have seen them explain laws in a professional manner and I think calling 911 would be my first bet. There is really no hard answer.....Some owners will say leave the dog home....then split off to crate the dog or don't crate the dog. Some people have dogs when they don't have air conditioning in their apartments and they leave for work. And on the other side I get people who drive their dogs to the beach or to a park and need to use the bathroom or they want to refill the water for the dog so they'd like to leave them in a secure place (but not for too long).

Some laws say extreme heat and extreme cold. So what temperature is that exactly? I read a pitbull who died in 15 below because his ignorant owner left him outside. Then you read siberian huskies can work up to 75 degrees below fahrenheit (Blame the Inuit eskimos as they started that). Then there are coyote's and dingos that live in the desert where it gets to a sweltering 113 degrees.

And lets not even talk about dogs traveling in commercial airline cargo holds.

Looks like massive education is needed, clear laws and more dog friendly places. I hope there will come a time where we can take dogs inside with us like dog friendly malls.



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