General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNazi Dictatorship...I mean Homeowners Association bans veteran from making furniture...
And of course, the HOA has no comment.
Homeowners' Association Bans Veteran From Building Furniture For Military Families
It seems building furniture doesn't sit well with the snooty neighbors in a Sacramento suburb. It interferes with their manicured gardens or something.
No good deed goes unpunished, as veteran Dennis Kocher has discovered.
Via Americans Against the Tea Party:
Meet Dennis Kocher, a Vietnam veteran and skilled craftsman who makes furniture for military families in need at the nearby Beale U.S. Air Force base. Unfortunately, CBS13 reports, his snotty homeowners association told him to close shop or face $100.00 to $1,000.00 fines.
Here I am, a Vietnam veteran doing something for the military, building furniture and donating it, and Lake of the Pines wants to close me down.
Kocher lives in Lake of the Pines, a gated community outside of Sacramento, Calif. in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Here, most homes have three or more bedrooms and list for $250,000 and up cheap for California but pricey for the area. And people who sink that much money into their homes are less likely to tolerate anything that annoys them.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/homeowners-association-bans-veteran
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And presumably this guy knew the rules when he decided to buy a house in this gated community. I appreciate what he is doing but there is lots of worthwhile stuff that people do that I wouldn't want being done next door to me.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Some machining type work - that spinning thing that items are placed against - made a hell of a lot of noise all Saturday. Yup need a single family home in the boondocks for that kind of thing
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If a HOA gives a variance to one home owner, they give it to ALL home owners.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Am familiar with an HOA that changed the rules so that homeowners couldn't rent their houses. Only current or previous rentals were grandfathered in. This happened during the nationwide foreclosure epidemic when rental properties were in high demand.
Homeowners objected and there was talk of a lawsuit. In the meantime, one homeowner who had wanted to rent out their property was forced to do a short sale instead.
I always advise people I know to avoid HOA properties if they can, especially if they are looking for a single family home. HOA's work best mostly for developments with multi-family buildings.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The covenant will spell out very clearly how the covenant can be amended. If it is up to the whim of the Board, you are a fool if you buy into that HOA. Most require a 2/3 vote of the homeowners and in most cases, that is nearly impossible to achieve.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)by the owners.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)In my HOA, it's 1 more home than 50% to change the covenant, and we've never seen more than 30% at any Board election. This last Board election, only the Board showed up. We know there is no way we'd ever be capable of changing the covenant.
That's the minimum required by the state, too.
But we're fortunate. We have a fence standard and the rest we leave up to the village to enforce because it's all village ordinances from there. Everything else is about maintaining common property.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)The restrictive rental provision mentioned above is changing "property rights". A good attorney would advise the Association not to go there as they will be sued and they will lose without 100% owner agreement. Part of the problem, of course, is in finding a good attorney.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)HOA Boards REALLY have to watch the attorneys they hire as many of them will have some junior attorney who would advise the Board on how to go there and never mention they shouldn't.
Why?
Because once they go there, the attorneys will be defending the HOA in the ensuing lawsuits.
archaic56
(53 posts)IN the first place, would not live some where that had a "HOA> Snobs.. secondly the man is doing a good deed.. but folks discuss the HOAS wow.. guess individual rights don't matter round here. HOAS the NIMBYS (not in my back yards) of the upper middle classes
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)archaic56
(53 posts)thanks for taking I see happen everyday offline as well as on and by saying what you di.. making me feel as if what I HAVE OBSERVED is not happening. I KNOW it does.., social prejudice is NOT just a province of the right.. many lefties have their own unique prejudices..
OH and I do not drink at all.. being diabetic that would be a death wish
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is practically the same thing as murdering 6 million Jews, no?
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)TIMETOCHANGE
(86 posts)It's an HOA. HOAs mean you limit your rights to how you conduct yourself on your own property. If you want freedom then avoid HOAs altogether, it's that simple. I loathe HOAs and will never own a house in an HOA community, the condos I own in COAs are bad enough to deal with.
Feel bad for the guy, but he knew what he was getting into, or should have known, when he got into an HOA property.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)You're not far off the mark to refer to them as nazis! Why HOAs continue to hold so much power is a mystery to me!
Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #4)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #12)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Zambero
(8,962 posts)If you take up residence in a neighborhood with an HOA (in this area, virtually every subdivision built in the past 30 years) you are automatically a member, whether you like HOA's or not. I'm not convinced that confers any special brand of communication style, however.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Which shouldn't be any of their damn business if you own the place. That's why most places with HOA's look dreary unto death.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)should choose not to buy into an HOA community.
People with more boring tastes who want the houses to look similar and standardized can choose to buy in a neighborhood controlled by an HOA.
Choice is a good thing.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's the opposite of freedom.
Another example(Garry Trudeau pointed this out in Doonesbury awhile back) is HOA's that won't let people dry their clothes on clotheslines...a prohibition that drives up people's electric bills by hundreds of dollars a year in some places.
Home ownership should never mean the right to force other homeowners to obey your commands, as if you were some sort of feudal liege lord.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Or is that HOAs descend on and take control of previously unrestricted communities?
Either way, this is awful.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Purchase a home in a subdivision it has a HOA. What annoys me is the board making rules which violate the By-laws and try to stick it to the residences.
delta17
(283 posts)This was during a water shortage. I think they backed down after the paper ran a story about it.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Some HOA's just love harassing and even fining people for obeying the watering restrictions during a severe drought. It was going on in Texas when I lived there a few years ago and I understand from friends that it's still going on there.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)St Augustine grass which requires lots of water but can still die in high temperatures. When Texas realized how much it was going to cost to produce water in the future we are now allowed to plant grass which does not require as much water to maintain.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Those rules are mostly city ordinances now.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Few? How could you know this? Have you checked into all of the HOA rules in every neighborhood? Please show the links, or like you stated to the other poster "we will all know you made it up"
I guess it's ok for you to do that though. Just not someone that you think you are DEBATING. You also get to call people ignorant and liars?
I guess there really are special rules for special people.
but thanks, you crack me up.
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)they say if this isn't what you want, then please do not buy here. We have some very sensible rules.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)make the developer pay for infrastructure and take the burden off the county/city. Worked well as the county got lots and lots of new property tax revenue without the cost of building streets, curbs and guttering, putting up street signs, adding waterlines, sewer and fire hydrants.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)To keep "undesireables" out of the neighborhood.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #14)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)A woman who lives up the street stopped me one day while I was out walking. I had never talked to her before but she was complaining about the HOA. She told me that they made her put her indoor/outdoor cat to sleep. I just listened knowing full well the HOA does not have any rules about pets because the city ordinances cover the subject. I just let her rant.
The following day I ran into the HOA President at the grocery store and asked her if anything about pet ownership/behavior had come before the Board. Of course the answer was no.
A week or so later the man who lives right next door to the woman with the cat told me that she was a tenant and she got in trouble with her landlord because her lease specifically said she could not have a pet. Apparently he had reported it to the owner because they are still friends on Facebook. Anyway, the owner told her to get rid of the cat and blamed the lease provision on the HOA.
The tenant lied about her cat and the owner lied about the HOA. All is normal as the former cat owner probably hates, hates, hates HOAs and will never live in one. Okay by me.
Response to DURHAM D (Reply #26)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Contract to have sidewalks built, trash collection expanded, a playground erected or purchase a soon-to-be-vacant home so that the HOA has control over who will be allowed to buy the home.
An "undesireable" would become any member who then begins to question the HOA's policies or the expansion of the existing rules.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Thus they borrow money from their dues paying neighbors without permission and sometimes with no intent of paying it back.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Going after members who dont pay their dues (usually as a result of a dispute with the HOA) is the reason the HOA uses as an excuse.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I don't think you have a clue how a HOA operates.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Do you pay your dues? Do you have a dispute with the HOA?
btw - a dispute is not an allowed or legal reason to withhold payment.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I know that would be illegal in Illinois. HOAs can, and do, evict deadbeat homeowners who fail to pay dues, then rent the homes to gain back dues and attorney fees, but a HOA cannot purchase a home here.
And the eviction process is a long one, usually 18 to 24 months after the first missed payment with attorneys getting involved at about the 9th month.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)and convoluted that it wouldnt be difficult to use some other, more socially acceptable reason to give some member hard time.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The only people I have ever seen go afoul with them are those who failed to read them.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,311 posts).... to discriminate against "undesirables".
This is one of the reasons FHA will not lend when there is a ROFR present - because it has been historically used for discrimination.
You appear to be from Illinois. Look up Jorrie Butler (of Oak Brook society fame, Butler Aviation and Oak Brook Mall) and Hunter Trails..
See:
http://openjurist.org/685/f2d/184/phillips-v-hunter-trails-community-association
In 1979 and 1980 William J. Phillips, a successful black businessman, was looking for a new house. He found what he wanted in the Hunter Trails subdivision of Oak Brook, Illinois-a 12,000 square-foot, tri-level home on a large lot. He offered $675,000 for it, and his offer was accepted by the owner, Dennis Broderick, on June 13, 1980. Mr. Phillips deposited $75,000 in earnest money, and a closing date was set for July 21, 1980. In the expectation that they would be able to move into the house as agreed, the Phillipses sold their house in Homewood, Illinois, agreeing to give up possession on July 21, and obtained a mortgage commitment on the new house from Seaway Bank on June 24, 1980.
2
Between June 24 and July 17, the Phillipses heard nothing about any difficulties with their move. But events were moving rapidly in Hunter Trails. On June 18 fifteen people came to an early morning meeting-officers and directors of the Hunter Trails Community Association and some homeowners-but Mr. Broderick, who had the only first-hand knowledge about the terms of the sale and who was also the vice-president of the Association and a Board member, was not notified of the meeting and did not attend.
3
One of the covenants that attached to every piece of property in the Hunter Trails subdivision gave the Association a thirty-day right of first refusal on any proposed sale. Accordingly, the Association could have forestalled the Phillipses by buying Broderick's house for $675,000. The outcome of the June 18 meeting was a decision instead to assign the Association's first refusal right to a syndicate or limited partnership. In the days that followed, no such assignee could be found or formed. The Association therefore turned its attentions to Mrs. Jorie Ford Butler as a potential purchaser. Mrs. Butler's family had founded Oak Brook and various members of the Butler family still owned property in Hunter Trails. Mrs. Butler herself had looked at the Broderick house in the early spring of 1980, before the Phillipses saw it, but was not interested in buying it then. When the Association proposal was presented to her in mid-July, however, she agreed to buy the Association's first-refusal option for $10,000 and exercised the option on July 17, agreeing to pay the Brodericks $675,000 for their house. They refused to close the sale on July 19 because she would not indemnify them from possible liability to the Phillipses.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)They no longer exist here because they were historically used to discriminate.
The only thing HOAs have now that is controversial is the right to first payment on foreclosure. IF a bank forecloses, they assume all debt the homeowners had to the HOA. It's controversial because the banks don't like it.
I'm on the Board of my HOA and we have evicted a bank and changed the locks on the home in order to rent the home to receive back payment. The bank refused to settle th back dues and attorney fees. Apparently, their attorneys did not understand how the law worked in Illinois.
I must say, it was very satisfying to evict a bank and take over the home in order to rent it for what was owed. We got the home caught up in a year and the bank sold the home at auction. The new owners only assumed three months of back dues when they took over.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,311 posts)I couldn't find anything.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It's not that it's illegal, it's that it has become nearly unenforceable. No new HOAs add the language as it is the builder that actually starts the HOA and no builders want to be limited to no FHA loans. So new builds never have ROFR in the covenants.
As far as enforceability goes, nearly all ROFRs still in language are in Condminium Associations, which are legally different from HOAs. Most of the HOAs that still contain that language require a 100% vote of homeowners to exercise the right, then they must come up with the funds, of course.
Most HOAs that once had that language have also removed the language due to FHA loan requirements.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)and then ends the deal by refusing to sign the HOA agreement.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)This is the way neighborhoods were kept restricted and segregated....
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Read history a book.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)That all HOAs have discontinued this practice.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You are under the burden of proof.
Provide the link or all will know you made it up.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)do what I say or we will ALL KNOW u lied. HAHAHAHAHA
grade school much?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)ignore the procedure for logical debate and we all laugh about it, HAHAHAHAHA
Uneducated much?
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)U R FUNNY!!!!!!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)In other words, educate yourself. Your feeble attempts to shift the burden of proof are tiresome. Your ignorance is showing.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)No one owes you a damned thing. Look shit up yourself if you want to see something. This is not a debate board. Lots of people post opinion, as well.
so educate YOUR self.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)They are all knowing. And only those of us who are liars, or just ignorant,(according to that poster) have to show links when that poster thinks they are DEBATING. It's the rules.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)There is, however, one very famous case of the refusal of a Cooperative in New York to allow a sell to Richard Nixon after he resigned the Presidency. It is important to note that a Cooperative is a completely different type of legal entity than the shared interest communities (HOAs) being discussed in this thread.
Also, to the best of my knowledge there is not a single Cooperative in my entire state and this is true of many states.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,311 posts)... a credit application and in-person interview before their condominium purchase was approved by the HOA.
KT2000
(20,567 posts)but they are also used when zoning has not been done for an area that would protect it as residential. Where I live there are covenants that preserve the development as residential and height limits to give everyone a view of the water. There is a prohibition against businesses in the home that would disrupt the residential quality of the neighborhood.
A man next door ran a cabinet shop out of his home - it was saws all day long and solvents and finishes in the air daily. He also had semis delivering often. He thought everything was about him but he had to stop.
Without the covenants we could have had stores and gas stations and multi-story hotels anywhere they wanted in the neighborhood.
HOA covenants that discriminate are illegal now.
Zambero
(8,962 posts)I prefer a diverse community, and this one has it all -- including age, ethnicity, political, and religious. But everyone who lives here is expected to abide by the rules, which were available to review before closing documents were signed. One's demographic, or prior military status for that matter, does not confer any exemption from them. As far as power goes, every resident here is an equal member. We elect the board of directors to one-year terms and are provided with an opportunity to volunteer as such on an annual basis. I don't personally like or agree with every CC&R or by-law but I knew what they were when moving here 9 years ago and signed onto them without coercion. I don't believe that victims of Nazi atrocities were provide with any amount of freedom or opportunity to affect their fates, and as such it seems like a poor analogy.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)A lot of real estate agents still reflect the unspoken segregation of todays' Texas in every sale. "That's the 'bad' schools", "that's the 'bad' neighborhood."
Now of course most HA use the online form service for all of them across this fine nation. The form where your next door neighbor can turn you in anonymously to HA whenever they want. The form that sets a 100 a day fine for grass to tall, twigs on the curb the wrong day. The loss of your home if you don't pay those fines!
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)The router is an insipid tool that is louder and more obnoxious then a weed whacker.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)Routers are noisy. Routers can be dangerous to the user. But they're not insipid.
adjective
lacking flavor.
"mugs of insipid coffee"
synonyms: tasteless, flavorless, bland, weak, wishy-washy; More
antonyms: tasty
lacking vigor or interest.
"many artists continued to churn out insipid, shallow works"
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)Nevertheless, if he put out real money for a shaper neighbors wouldn't be complaining
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)Chewing up wood is noisy work. And then there's the planer. That tool had very limited hours in my workshop, and I normally warned my nearest neighbor if I had lots of work to do with it. If he asked, I'd put it off until a better time.
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)and are much quieter and the sound doesn't travel as far as routers. Same for planers, although those brush motor jobs do scream compared to an old school planer.
I'm happy you are a considerate neighbor.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)[bWhen I sold my house in California, it came with a shop full of high-end woodworking equipment. I had stopped doing projects for magazines and had moved on to another topic. That was a major selling point. The shop building itself had been built as a cover story for one of the magazines I wrote for. All of the equipment and tools were from reviews I did. None of the manufacturers wanted them back, since photos of them in use were part of the articles.
It was fun for about 12 years, but woodworking was never a favorite thing for me. It paid the bills, though.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Jointers make routers and router tables seem like sweet music by comparison.
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)If a joiner is sharp, really sharp, noise is not an issue.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You damned well better keep your jointer knives sharp, or it could take your hand off. Still, sharp jointer knives will do little to lessen the deafening cacophony that will ensue the moment the board hits the knives.
Jointer:
Joiner:
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)jehop61
(1,735 posts)But perhaps like-minded neighbors could donate a small amount to him so he could set up shop in a small commercial area? Then more folks would be a part of this good works.
Response to Archae (Original post)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)In most HOAs, participation by the home owners is so dismally small it is impossible to get enough votes to alter the covenant.
Response to MohRokTah (Reply #8)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If the home owners don't get involved, the Board has a free hand in making the decisions. No Board is going to grant a variance for a carpentry shop, especially when doing so could violate city zoning codes.
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)I will never buy a home that requires me to be part of a Homeowners' Association.
Response to A Little Weird (Reply #9)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)nice, there are lots of boats and all here, owners are required to follow simple rules ... like keep the grass cut, no parking on lawns, reasonable house colors, keep bushes relatively well trimmed, and no outrageous noise. I'm a pretty reasonable person and I found the rules pretty reasonable. Living in a resort area, sometimes some places get pretty wild, we have lots with no HOAs, and some of them I think a lot of people would probably want to avoid. Anyway, it was made perfectly clear to me what the reasonable rules are, and pretty much, if you can't go along with us, then this is probably not the best place for you. I was OK with it all.
Response to RKP5637 (Reply #43)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Then I found out that the Association sometimes makes a point of "Forgetting' to send the bill for the HOA dues. The yearly dues. Granted they' re not much - about $ 450 I think.
But when an elderly person falls behind, their home can be seized for back dues, and sold out from under that person's feet! Really really wicked practices, and not limited to our HOA!
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)I paid the HOA and all, and their bookkeeper never recorded my payment.
About 6 months into the new year they sent the gestapo out to see why I was not paying. Well, this guy was an old asshole. I was in the wrong no matter what I said.
Turned out their bookkeeper had fucked up. She was exceptionally apologetic, but the asshole jerk was not, but never saw him again.
Thinking about what you said, imagine if they had started proceedings without my knowledge. I do think some HOAs need better restraint imposed on them by the local government. From what I've heard sometimes it seems their authority supersedes that of local government!
Response to RKP5637 (Reply #106)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And in a nursing home for six months. You may well have come out of the nursing home to find your home and land gone forever.
And the older jackass you describe seems to be ubiquitous to these HOA's. Almost like the guy is cloned by HOA's across America for that very purpose of intimidation.
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)Response to truedelphi (Reply #105)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)at least in my area. Not so much in the county but in the city.
TBF
(32,000 posts)but we lease so we're not stuck here forever or anything. Also they were pretty cool about letting renters join the conversation here (we get to participate in the HOA website and forum etc). I've noticed that they will usually pick one big thing to tackle each year - like forcing folks to mulch or pressure wash or something. Some years they are worse than others so I guess it depends on who is on the board.
Maybe the veteran could agree to use the loud power tools during certain hours. My guess is that he's waking up babies in the afternoon or something (wholly unintentional on his part but it would really annoy the young moms in neighboring houses). Or if he's got his furniture sitting out in the front yard drying after varnishing or something that might annoy some people. Keeping things in the backyard usually helps here, and keeping pets inside so barking at weird hours doesn't annoy people. Usually things work out if people have some consideration for their neighbors.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)When the property is sold the HOA can come to the new owner and if they have a beneficial offer or they just want to then the new owner can sign an agreement with them but the agreement on the property dies when the original owner is off the deed.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)When you close on a house in a HOA you MUST sign the agreement or the home sale CANNOT be closed. HOAs have the right of lien so attempting to close a sale without the new owner agreeing to the covenants of the HOA is like closing on the sale without the old mortgagors being involved.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)If the HOA is so wonderful then the new owners will be happy to join but if they don't see it that way they can pound sand until they have a new owner to pitch.
I'm not against freedom of association, if you want to have a neighborhood club then feel free just don't think that because I purchase a property that I am obligated to join it because freedom of association also means I am free not to associate with you and play by your reindeer games.
If you want a government then buck up and incorporate, otherwise we should be free to say kiss my ass. As currently functioning, I believe these constructs are an abomination and the result of a bought out government. How the fuck are you going to give a club such legal authority? Sometimes beyond the authority of a locality.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)The main purpose of an HOA is to pay common expenses. All HOAs have common expenses.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)but they aren't and the way to care for the commons in any event is to levy taxes and you can gain such authority by incorporating.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It is NOT a "neighborhood club".
HOAs are nonprofit corporations that own common property and charges dues to its members for the upkeep of that common property. They also may or may not have rules regarding the privately held property within the HOA. All rules are clearly defined in the covenant.
The only scammers in the situation are those who fail to read and understand the rules and then violate the rules.
Don't want to be in a HOA, don't buy a house in a HOA, because when you do buy a house in a HOA, you are also purchasing a share of the commons owned by the HOA.
This is very basic private government. Don't like the idea? Don't buy into a HOA.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)and if not they can hope I change my mind or sell and the next person likes what they are pushing better.
And since I don't believe in private government, my preference is for such constructs to be defanged, if they want to be a government they can incorporate, communities do it all the time. Government is public by definition in our system, this is an abomination.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If a house you are considering purchasing is in a HOA, you CANNOT close on the house without signing the HOA agreement. So you'll never have to worry about it because you have excluded yourself from ever being capable of purchasing a house in a HOA. All HOAs have a right to place a lien on a home covered by the HOA, so you cannot purchase such a house without becoming a member of the HOA.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)All kinds of laws are in effect, doesn't mean I have to support them or cannot oppose them.
Buddy of mine bought into one of these scams and the rules set before there were any home owners at all, he was the first or second home completed and occupied in the development and changes then require some unrealistic quorum to change anything making the developer the unelected governing body of the neighborhood.
That is nonsense, even if you buy into the abomination, which I don't. If you want governmental authority then incorporate.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Here it's 75% of homes sold.
And if you don't read the rules before buying, you only have yourself to blame.
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)Warpy
(111,124 posts)the HOA won't have a leg to stand on since it doesn't alter the appearance of his house, annoy the neighbors, and it's a hobby, not a business. It's either that or rent a cheap storefront, we know there are a lot of empty ones out there.
One good thing about my weird and often dangerous inner city neighborhood is that there is no HOA, just a group of people who will show up banging pots and pans all night if they think you're running a shooting gallery, meth kitchen, or crack house. Other than that, things are loose around here and yes, you do get to use car seats on the front porch while you save up for something better.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That's what he should look into; maybe he could get some help with his project from like-minded people there...
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)I would not want running next door to me, HOA or not. And some power tools are at a frequency they go right through just about anything unless properly sound proofed.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)I don't think you know the first thing about what life under the Nazi dictatorship was like.
Zambero
(8,962 posts)People that move into HOA-affected neighborhoods agree to abide by the rules when they sign their closing documents. And those rules can be reviewed beforehand. A Nazi dictatorship would tend to skip such formalities.
RandiFan1290
(6,221 posts)because you have a military fetish.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)That type of bad attitude get you?
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Hatchling
(2,323 posts)Late evenings and weekends, always the power tools roaring from the house two buildings over from a home based carpentry. Can't stanf it and no I can't afford to move.
RKP5637
(67,084 posts)garage and makes furniture. My first thought was WTF, how obnoxious to those for several houses/blocks around.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Yet they accept these rules, which are far more restrictive than any municipal government would have. Plus you pay fees to some corporation, who certainly cares more about profit than anything else.
Where my parents live, you can't even change your internet/cable, so they are stuck with the shittiest one out there.
I hate HOAs. They are antithetical to democracy and freedom and only exist because local governments have been captured by "small-government" types.
Throd
(7,208 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)not that I dislike lepers themselves. After hearing horror stories from anyone who has ever been involved with them, I think I'd prefer to live in a tiny unabomber style shack in the woods with no plumbing or electricity.
Zambero
(8,962 posts)They are legally binding, and once a homeowner signs closing documents they are agreeing to abide by them. In most instances, HOA boards and property managers have very limited authority to bend the rules, and can be taken to task (or court) by other HOA members if enforcement is not occurring. While I can sympathize with this guy, the sound of power tools grinding away day in and day out would not set well with many neighbors who pay hundreds in HOA dues per year expecting some semblance of quiet cooperation from their neighbors. Aside from neighborhood-specific HOA rules, most city ordinances would not preclude a carpentry shop at one's residence, and if a resident wishes to conduct such a business then he or she should locate it in a neighborhood that allows such activities.
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)onenote
(42,531 posts)kiva
(4,373 posts)he knew what he was getting into when he moved in to the place. I could have bought my house in a 'nicer' neighborhood, a newer house with fewer things to repair - I didn't because I refused to live with an HOA.
For a few years I lived across the street from a guy that did some sort of woodworking - he had saws running off and on 5-6 hours per day, generally 4 days per week. It was somewhat annoying but a) it was a across a pretty wide street b) he only did this after 9am and never after 6pm, and c) I didn't spend a lot of time outside in my yard.
Today I live with closer neighbors who have no sense of time and I spend a lot more time outside, so I wouldn't be happy if one of them decided to set up a workshop and spend hours each day running saws and lathes. If I wanted to live with that, I'd have bought a place zoned commercial.
I agree that he should try to see if he can either get a donated space or ask for help paying for a place to work.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)woodworking chemicals would also work, but are probably too cost prohibitive for this individual.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)He's got a furniture making business in a residential neighborhood. Donating the furniture doesn't make it any less of a business.
And did the HOA come into existence AFTER he moved in? How about he abides by the covenants he agreed to.
All of you who hate HOAs, don't move to a place that has them.
The River
(2,615 posts)Lake of the Pines is 40 miles from Sacramento and 48 miles from Beal AFB. Hardly "nearby".
There are plenty of places he can set up a "shop" and not bother his neighbors.
I'm about to buy a home in a similar development nearby and I welcome rules that reign in
thoughtless neighbors who never think about how their actions impact others.
Notice how it's all about him doing something nice for "the military".
How about thinking about your neighbors? Be nice to them and go rent a shop that's
zoned for that kind of noisy activity.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Archae
(46,299 posts)I'm not surprised, I based my view of the HOA on the fact they refused to comment, and from previous horror stories involving HOA's.
http://gawker.com/5830257/the-horror-of-homeowners-associations
The River
(2,615 posts)There are way more "thank goodness" stories that you never hear about.
You'd be surprised at some of the crazy things home owners try to build or
do on their property.
I worked with zoning boards, developers and HOAs as a part of my profession.
Sometimes they have petty dictators but not as a general rule. For the most part
they just want to protect home values, common spaces, environment and ensure that home
owners can have "the quiet use and possession" they are entitled to.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)for a home-based business manufacturing furniture in his garage. It's actually at the hobby level-he builds approximately 2 pieces of furniture a month-but the HOA insisted he get a business permit, which he did.
The HOA is now citing noxious activities as the problem (odor and noise) which they define as "an unreasonable annoyance or disturbance to NEIGHBORING residents".
It's not the neighbors who are complaining. In fact a dozen of them support him continuing to make the furniture pieces and wrote letters of support.
Kocher is appealing his case to the HOA board on Aug 5th. Should be interesting.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Hiding behind "Aw, the troops! The troops!"
Left kind of an ugly taste.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Makes total sense.
Ultra_Blue
(7 posts)I'm a vet and if the guy is breaking the rules he agreed to then what does he expect?
Pros and cons to HOAs and that is a big con.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)then complain that they have to follow the rules of the HOA. Why would anyone willingly join one?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)We have little in the way of actual rules beyond our initial covenant. The only rule enacted relaxed the fencing restrictions because the very first fence installed in the HOA was granted a variance as to height, style, structure, and color by the intial Board made up of the contractor building the place.
Beyond that rule, we're more concerned about paying for repairs on our alleys, snow removal in the alleys and public sidewalks and upkeep of common areas.
We leave all other enforcement up to the village and call the non-emergency police number when residents let their grass grow too long or park incorrectly.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I no longer live there now and I am soooooooooooooooooo glad. I don't like busy bodies. I like the country where you leave your neighbor alone unless they need help. Then you give it.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)mini governments entirely dedicated to self-interest empowered to tell the neighbors what to do under penalty of law.
melm00se
(4,984 posts)HOAs operate under a covenant that the current homeowner(s) may not have been party to it being drawn up.
HOAs indicate a board that is elected by the membership
Most HOAs rarely reach a majority of participation
see a pattern?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)HAs started because of segregation. Here they are continuing to oppress Americans to the point where an HA can fine persons thousands of dollars and take away their home.
People should be able to work from home, earn a living in and on their own home property.
To follow the States & Federal, health and sanitary laws should be enough.
brooklynite
(94,302 posts)They're a voluntary organization of homeowners who make decisions through representative Democracy. Nobody making you live in the community if you don't like the format.
BTW - any Co-op apartment building can do the same thing.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)HA discriminate, as a person with a computer based business can earn a living anywhere. Even in homeowner controlled locations that restrict _most_ home small businesses.
Local restraints on commerce for the OP.
brooklynite
(94,302 posts)Many communities do.
Not unconstitutional.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)brooklynite
(94,302 posts)If you don't like regulations, the way to deal with it is to work to change it through the political process, not grouse about it on a blog.
brooklynite
(94,302 posts)"How DARE a Governing Body I had a role in selecting tell me what to do!"
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)for someone crapping in this thread
archaic56
(53 posts)just like then TEa Party, there is prejudice on the left. THis is why the HOPIS advise staying in the middle of the river and avoiding extremes.
when the ptbs have you hating each other as opposed to those who create the divide.. well, might as well giving up hoping for peace love and understanding
i Live to find common ground. I do not live to exploit the old Roman divide and conquer
HOAS are about the DIVIDE they sure are not about respecting individuals rights to live as they choose. Nor are they about what is good for all.