Next Time Someone Says Women Aren't Victims Of Harassment, Show Them This.

[Scuba]

[merrily]

1. I don't think harassment deniers are going to change their tune

upon being shown some relevant cartoons.

I think most people who deny sexual harassment of women and men* exists know very well that they are deliberately lying through their nasty teeth.

I do appreciate the good intentions behind your post, though, Scuba. I guess I am just a lot more cynical than you, at least about the subject of harassment deniers.




*Granted the number of men who are harassed is lower than the number of women who are harassed, but, it's like getting pregnant while using reliable methods birth control. It may not be as common statistically as pregnancy without birth control. However, when it happens to you, it happens 100%.

[Scuba]

7. I believe what you describe falls under "afflicting the comfortable".

Just because it won't sway them doesn't mean they shouldn't have to face it.

[merrily]

10. It's not that it won't change their minds. It's that they already know the reality but lie about it.

Much like climate deniers know the reality, but lie about it.

Rather than try to go point by point with such people, as though I thought they were being honest with me I would go for labeling their deceitful behavior for what it is. Either way, they'll keep lying, but at least they will know I know they're lying.

Just my honest opinion, of course.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

16. I still think it would be great to encourage men to speak up....

It may not change a particular denier/harasser, and it won't change the culture quickly, but it does tell them that they're busted!

I just see a LOT of positive messages in the toon that I'd really like to see expanded in real life efforts.

Silence=approval

[merrily]

17. Good points, Blanche. (Okay if use only the "Blanche" part of your screen name?)

However I think the best way to tell people they're busted is to tell them they're busted.

But, because I also agree with your points, I'd hand them a copy of the cartoons, too.

It's like chicken soup.

"Ladies and gentlemen, I am sorry to announce that the part of Willy Loman will be played tonight by John Doe because our star, Robert Smith just passed away backage."

"Give him chicken soup."

"Madam. The man is dead. Chicken soup is not going to help."

"Couldn't hurt."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

23. you can call me Blanche. :) or you can call me

Splanch, or....... LoL!


Must run, late for an appointment. Gotta respond later.

Kick me if I forget.

[F4lconF16]

21. I still think it would be great to encourage men to speak up....

Exactly. While it might not do anything for some deniers, there are many men who do not like the harassment that women are subjected to, yet still do not say anything. The more we can get the message out that it's okay to speak up, that criticizing that behavior is acceptable, the more change we'll see.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

22. the toon gives suggested scripts, too.

That's an important, helpful start when you don't know what to say. You also create an influence on everyone around the situation.

Ripples out....crucial point

[littlemissmartypants]

2. Thanks for your post., Scuba. And may I add...

Peace. Lmsp

[Brickbat]

3. K&R. Great cartoon.

[JNelson6563]

4. That was spot on!

One thing I marvel at is how many women are completely conditioned in regard to how men who are assholes behave toward women. Last summer a 25 year old woman was run over on her bike and dragged til she died. Happened in the middle of the night. Talking about it at work, the first remark was from a woman: What was she doing out at that time? Yeah, I wanted to ask if she'd been out partying would she deserve that? Frankly I was so sickened I simply told her the victim had been on her way home from work and I left the area.

Just the other day a different woman I work with made a remark along the lines that if a lady wears provocative clothing, well she shouldn't be surprised if bad things happen to her.

WTF? We have a long way to go in teaching EVERYONE about appropriate behavior.

Julie

[SunSeeker]

11. When you grow up awash in misogyny, you tend to internalize it, even if you're a woman.

You constantly have to check yourself...because you are constantly being bombarded with anti-woman messages.

Sadly, many otherwise progressive men and women give up and take the "that's just the way things are" stance. After all, swimming against the tide is very tiring.

I'm glad you haven’t given up. It's people like you who will change the tide.

[KitSileya]

30. Not to mention, it's protective thinking.

If it happens because she was out at night, or because she wore a short skirt, or because she didn't make sure her drink wasn't roofied, I can prevent it from happening to me.

Desperate protective thinking.

[SunSeeker]

31. And of course it assumes the attack was the woman's fault. nt

[KitSileya]

33. I think that for women, it's more that they want it to be the woman's fault.

it's safer that way. We grow up in a misogynistic culture, we cannot help but be influenced by that.

[SunSeeker]

35. Sad but true for far too many women. nt

[riqster]

5. Scuba, you totally fucking rock.

[Scuba]

8. Damn, now I need a bigger hat.

[tea and oranges]

6. kick Thanks for posting, Scuba

[Atman]

9. Well done.

Thanks for posting.

[SunSeeker]

12. K & R

[myrna minx]

13. Thank you.

[lapislzi]

14. This is really, really good

Wish I could recommend endlessly.

Thank you for posting, Scuba.

[blackspade]

15. Great post.

It won't change harassers' behavior, but it is spot on.
A counter culture needs to be pushed. Men need to get it through their heads that their internal dialogue needs to stay internal.
If you think that a woman is attractive, smile and say hello, and then go on your fucking way.
Any other comments about them should stay in your head.

[merrily]

19. I think there is room between "hello" and sexual harassment.

You can be attracted and ask her or him) out, as long as it's respectful and not coercive.

On the other hand, your boss mentioning "you could do worse here than hitching your wagon to my star" crosses a line. Believe it or not, that was a comment actually made to me by one of my bosses while we were both married--and was by far not the only crap I had to endure in that company. There was such a culture of it there that both the owners and the customers engaged in it. Never in front of witnesses, though.

[blackspade]

24. Seriously? Your boss used that line?

What a turd.

To your point, I see what your saying, but it seems to me that women have been harassed for so long that if you have no intention to ask them out, it would be best to just keep it low key.

[merrily]

25. Could I ever make that up? Yes, he did. And it was not even the worst I was subjected to

at that firm. Did I mention we were both married, as was every male who harassed me there?

Notice as well there was no promise that I would do well if I hitched my wagon to a "star" like him. I was clearly meant to get that impression, but there was no promise. He was sleazy that way, too.

After a small raise, I told him that I was making a ton of money for the company and thought my raise should have been higher.. He looked stunned, took a piece of paper from his desk drawer, then dramatically, "Merrily, do you really think you should make as much as Ralph?"

From that, I assumed that any better a raise than I had received would have put me on a par with Ralph, who was several years more experienced than I was. So, I said no. (DUMB!) Much later I found out that, at that time, Ralph was making almost 50% more than I was. And probably not getting sexually harassed. My raise could have been much better without putting me on a par with Ralph.


Yes, if you have no desire for a respectful, romantic relationship, do keep it low key. I thought you were saying something more drastic than that.

[blackspade]

26. That is terrible.

The way some supervisors treat women who work for them is shameful.
I have seen it at some jobs that I have worked and I find it galling.
I had a boss at one point that kept asking a female employee why she needed to go to her ObGyn appointment instead of going out of town for 3 months. All she wanted was an extra day, but he harassed the shit out of her until she told him that she needed a birth control prescription re-up. He then started asking why she needed it prior to her trip.
On my advice, and others, she filed a complaint although nothing happened to our boss.
He did lay off though. He was such a dickbag.

The sexism that pervades corporate culture is one of the reasons why working in a small woman owned business is so refreshing.

[merrily]

27. What's wrong with you? No sense of humor? He was just having a little fun.

I heard that bs, too.

Story has a happy ending, though. I started my own business and did much better financially. Turned out my birthday was a holiday in my company, too. Happy coincidence.

[blackspade]

28. Sweet, well done.

Birthdays should always be holidays!

[merrily]

29. I agree!

[calimary]

18. Sure covers it!

Thanks, Scuba! Great post! Illustrative and GREAT.

[VA_Jill]

20. Very good

And this was on Jezebel yesterday. I think it also applies.
http://jezebel.com/we-have-a-rape-gif-problem-and-gawker-media-wont-do-any-1619384265

[SunSeeker]

34. Wow. Gawker is allowing a hostile work environment.

I can't believe they're not doing anything about it, when there are steps that can be taken, as the article at the link points out. Gawker is really setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

[BainsBane]

32. Excellent lesson!

[niyad]

36. k and r and glad to see this getting more visibility

[nilesobek]

37. Love this cartoon and hope its a continuing saga.

I work graveyard shift as a cashier for a major corporation but I have the night off. But last night, at work, my cook, a female in her 40s, suffered a sexual harassment incident perpetrated by a customer who has been "flirting," with her over the last few months.

She told me these are unwanted advances and she was disgusted by him and not interested in him at all.

He went behind the cook's counter and stuck his foot in her crack.

I was cashiering and didn't see him do this, we were really busy yesterday morning. If I saw it I would have 86'd him.

I'm 6'4" and gulag tough from so much homelessness and tragedy in my life its no problem for me to take out the trash.

I brought this to the attention of the kitchen manager, another middle aged female, who told me, "She wants it. She likes the attention."

So my workmates have no cover from their bosses from sexual harassment and assault. We have to speak up.