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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:26 PM

 

Many thanks to Rachel Maddow for proving the existence of white privilege (Bundy v. Ferguson)

Last edited Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:34 AM - Edit history (1)

This is not coming from me or any of the black, brown, Asian or white sympathetic DUers.

This is Rachel Maddow's show tonight. It was a brilliant show tonight because she demonstrated a very important contrast.

For months now, many of us have been trying--in vain--to explain what we have witnessed. Our life experiences. To try to get people to understand, not to make white people feel guilty. Not to accuse white folk of racism--real or unconscious. But simply to get people to see how white skin privilege has led to disparities in the ways people of color and whites have been treated in this country.

Rachel drew a contrast between the Bundy stand-off in Nevada and what happened in Ferguson, where the protestors came strapped, armed to the 9's, antagonizing federal troops, aiming their weapons squarely at feds. We saw how favorable to the Bundy's the coverage was in that the feds were lambasted for "overstepping their bounds," even as they enforced federal laws. (Remember, Bundy had been breaking federal land regulations for many decades!)

In stark contrast, the protestors in Ferguson--all unarmed--are treated like animals, told to go home. The protests began peacefully, but with only a few of them causing trouble, the press generalized about ALL the protestors. The cops are militarized, the crowds are sprayed with tear gas. Remember these people are all unarmed.

Don't attack me. Rachel clearly drew the contrast. She clearly stated that race IS the central factor.

And guess what? I agree.

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Reply Many thanks to Rachel Maddow for proving the existence of white privilege (Bundy v. Ferguson) (Original post)
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 OP
jimlup Aug 2014 #1
easychoice Aug 2014 #42
SomethingFishy Aug 2014 #81
sheshe2 Aug 2014 #2
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #25
bravenak Aug 2014 #26
sheshe2 Aug 2014 #31
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #57
sheshe2 Aug 2014 #33
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #43
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #58
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #84
Behind the Aegis Aug 2014 #38
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #55
boston bean Aug 2014 #66
gollygee Aug 2014 #67
cyberswede Aug 2014 #80
R B Garr Aug 2014 #3
Warpy Aug 2014 #4
arcane1 Aug 2014 #6
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #63
cui bono Aug 2014 #74
littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #13
rhett o rick Aug 2014 #5
dhill926 Aug 2014 #7
littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #14
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #8
freshwest Aug 2014 #29
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #49
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #52
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #85
Stellar Aug 2014 #9
glinda Aug 2014 #10
NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #11
littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #16
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #22
bravenak Aug 2014 #27
JI7 Aug 2014 #36
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #40
JI7 Aug 2014 #44
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #45
JI7 Aug 2014 #46
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #47
JI7 Aug 2014 #48
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #51
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #53
freshwest Aug 2014 #70
annabanana Aug 2014 #61
freshwest Aug 2014 #69
gollygee Aug 2014 #68
littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #15
freshwest Aug 2014 #12
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #23
freshwest Aug 2014 #24
bravenak Aug 2014 #28
freshwest Aug 2014 #32
bravenak Aug 2014 #34
freshwest Aug 2014 #37
cui bono Aug 2014 #72
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #59
SunSeeker Aug 2014 #17
tblue37 Aug 2014 #18
Sparhawk60 Aug 2014 #56
WCLinolVir Aug 2014 #19
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #20
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #54
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #60
loyalsister Aug 2014 #21
Half-Century Man Aug 2014 #30
AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #41
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #78
Half-Century Man Aug 2014 #82
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #35
ReRe Aug 2014 #39
Cha Aug 2014 #50
malaise Aug 2014 #62
Gothmog Aug 2014 #64
Shankapotomus Aug 2014 #65
cui bono Aug 2014 #71
seveneyes Aug 2014 #73
myrna minx Aug 2014 #75
upaloopa Aug 2014 #76
moriah Aug 2014 #77
upaloopa Aug 2014 #79
LloydS of New London Aug 2014 #83

Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:33 PM

1. As a white person I have asked my black friends and

yes, I'm beginning to understand. I can't grasp it from personal experience but I know enough first hand accounts to be sure that it is more than real.

I'm scared for the people in Ferguson. Those cops seem to me to be acting out a bit. Like they don't no what to do so they resort to their thug identity or something.

I've been involved in anti-war protests for many years so I do know first hand about the thug/bully tendency and tactics of cops.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:02 AM

42. Frank Zappa nailed it in 1966

Absolutely nothing has changed, it's still a race war.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:52 PM

81. They are "acting out" because they are scared...

When people come out in numbers, the cops realize that the control they so heavily rely on is but an illusion. They realize that if the populace rises up they are in deep shit. So they break out the big guns to try to maintain that illusion of control.



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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:34 PM

2. Thank you LS.

Rachel just proved proof positive that the racial divide is strong and that white privilege does indeed exist. They naysayers will spin themselves silly trying to say that it is not so.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:00 AM

25. Institutional discrimination is very real, yes, and this has proven that.

 

Literal "white privilege", however, does not. It never did. I'd like to point out, too, that you don't need to believe that whites have these mythical extra "privileges" to understand the reality of institutional racism.

To be truthful, I did believe in White Privilege, at one point, long before I became a true blue Democrat(though I was never all that vocal about it and didn't go nearly as far as some people have). But that was a long time ago. And now, in more recent times, I've seen just how badly it has failed as a teaching tool. I mean no offense when I say this, but we can do better than this. We have to. The people, of all ethnicities, nationalities, etc., are counting on us to make this count.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:04 AM

26. This is the last time I'm going to tell you.

 

Nobody cares if you don't think it exists. It does whether YOU as a white man, agree or not.
I sometimes wonder if you think it's your JOB to DISPROVE white privilege on DU.

Nobody cares what truth you USED to believe in. Nobody.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:21 AM

31. Well as I said...

"They naysayers will spin themselves silly trying to say that it is not so."


Ya Joe, unhuh got it....

This is polarizing! This is indeed a war, when this is allowed....

Something is VERY wrong in America when a white man aiming down on police gets a pass and nothing happens but an unarmed black kid walking down the street is shot 10 times.






Something is VERY wrong in America when a white man aiming down on police gets a pass and nothing happens but an unarmed black kid walking down the street is shot 10 times.





Young black boys can’t even walk down the street or it could be a death sentence. How do we protect our kids from racists police and vigilantes? Marching isn’t working.

Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
Follow

White militia points guns at officials. Hailed as patriots. Unarmed black teen not seen as a human being. Shot 10 times by cops. America.
8:59 PM – 9 Aug 2014

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025372075#post3

Please spare me. DO NOT EVEN TRY TO SPIN THIS!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:32 AM

57. This was the pic I was trying to find. I remember this discussion when folk still denied the truth.

 

It's irritating. Thanks so much, sheshe2

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:28 AM

33. Oh wait, I forgot this one....

Ferguson "We're dealing with 4,000 animals in there, & you want to give me attitude?"




Ferguson "We're dealing with 4,000 animals in there, & you want to give me attitude?"



View image on Twitter
TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
Follow
#Ferguson

Peaceful protestors arrested? ✓

Members of Media arrested? ✓

Killer of #MikeBrown arrested? ✘
9:57 PM - 13 Aug 2014

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025383051

Are you fricking serious!?

To be truthful, I did believe in White Privilege, at one point, long before I became a true blue Democrat(though I was never all that vocal about it and didn't go nearly as far as some people have). But that was a long time ago. And now, in more recent times, I've seen just how badly it has failed as a teaching tool. I mean no offense when I say this, but we can do better than this. We have to. The people, of all ethnicities, nationalities, etc., are counting on us to make this count.


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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:02 AM

43. Yes, I'm quite serious, sadly. We really could do better in educating people at times.

 

All of what you have posted are very real examples of institutional racism (and police corruption) in action. But not of white "privilege". Is it really a "privilege" to not be gunned down by cops just because of what one looks like? I know that you and I probably agree that it's a NORMAL right that everyone should have. But when people hear of that as a "privilege", they think that we're saying that such things ought to happen to everyone else, even if that's the opposite of what we're really trying to say. And that's a big part of my point!

For a comparison, I recall a very recent article by Elizabeth Segran on the (very liberal, btw) New Republic site on how certain actions and slogans of honestly
well-intentioned radical theorists are actually hurting, more than helping, the cause of activism in feminism. It's an interesting read:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118996/womens-studies-departments-are-failing-feminism

And many of the same things that this veteran activist pointed out here, can also be said of the Social Justice Movement as well.







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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:36 AM

58. You are hopeless, then. If you refuse to see what's right there in your face, then you are hopeless.

 

You shouldn't even be participating in these discussions because you're not going to be useful in moving the ball forward. People like Rachel will be. The people in this thread who have opened their eyes and are honest with themselves will be.

I think it's really sad when folk are willfully ignorant.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #58)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:38 PM

84. "If you refuse to see what's right there in your face," I'm not. I know what I see.

 

Yes, the institutional racism is there. That, I can plainly see.

The people in this thread who have opened their eyes and are honest with themselves will be.


And I can safely say that I can count myself amongst that number. Only problem is, some of y'all are too darn idealistic about this, thinking that every potential ally will be converted upon hearing the "privilege" gospel. The sad truth is, that hasn't quite worked out that way. And shooting the messenger just because he discards one's favorite academic term isn't helping out either.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:53 AM

38. Creationists believe the world is 5,000 old, don't make it true.

"White privilege" does exist and has been demonstrated by a variety of studies. Does it exist in all situations? No. However, to claim that whites don't have an advantage over other ethnicities in this country is absurd. It isn't a "teaching tool" it is a reality. The teaching tools are diversity trainings, readings, and experiences which are used to combat white privilege, which is a product of institutionalized racism, which who seem to "believe" exists.

Want to see white privilege in action?

?edef5f

Do you honestly think an AFRICAN-AMERICAN (or anyone "too dark" would ever get away with doing the above?! That is simply ONE example.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:30 AM

55. It means you or I don't die the way Michael Brown did.

It's not about "mythical extra privileges," it's about having a dramatically smaller chance of being gunned down like a dog.

Again, I don't know why you persist in knocking down strawmen arguments which almost no one has offered in the first place.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:17 AM

66. Institutional discrimination begets whites privilege.

Now, please stop with the offensive re-explaining and derailing of topics. It's like a broken record. It never ends and keeps repeating and repeating and repeating, trying to get people riled up with the annoyance. To me it seems like repeated attempts to derail very important discussions, TBH and all.

Would you please, for the love of anything good at all in life, stop it.

Oh and PS, I do notice that you can't even bring yourself to say Institutional Racism and instead use "discrimination". I think I understand the reason from reading many of your maddening, false, derailing posts on the subject.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:23 AM

67. We have the privilege of protesting the government

Even armed, without getting arrested or having guns pointed at us.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:51 PM

80. If you believe in institutional racism, you believe in white privilege, by default.

White privilege isn't "extra privileges" - it's merely the absence of institutional racism toward white people.

I don't know why you keep digging in your heels on this issue.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:34 PM

3. I saw that too, and the contrast was astounding and very effective.

I can't imagine ever getting away with aiming weapons at law enforcement and all that happens is that you get your picture taken.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:36 PM

4. She's not the only one

but again, I'm just thunderstruck by the patience exhibited by most black communities. The worst they did was have a few punk kids loot stores while the cops watched.

I'll refer y'all to the revolts in Egypt and the Ukraine. That's what all those Robo Cops were acting like was happening. It wasn't Once again, it was overkill by a military occupation.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:47 PM

6. It's godamn intergenerational patience! I am in awe.

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:04 AM

63. We're taught from the time we're little kids what to do when confronted by police, especially black

 

men. Even with Eric Garner. Show your hands. That's why the demonstrators were holding their hands up in protest. That's what we were taught. Some of that has left younger generations. You only turn and run when absolutely necessary (as in Trayvon's case), but dealing with cops is different. You never run. You do what they say. Never resist. Stop and show your hands. As far as I can see, that young man did what was right.

I also think religious faith has damaged our people, but has also done great things. Being a religious people has taught us to forgive, almost to a fault, some of it embedded in the religious teaching that you struggle on earth and are rewarded in heaven. We are the most forgiving, but I think that has led to complacency on some level. That's the self-destructive aspect of it, in my view. Hope I didn't offend anyone. But I think the patience thing explains that. Teaching kids what to do in situations like this. We tend to hate and distrust the police, not because we disobey authority but because of the history of maltreatment. And still, we are forced to try and be patient and accommodating.

And yet, I can see why there are some in Ferguson who have become fed up and have started rioting. They are sick of being disrespected and mistreated by police, while the larger society (and right there in Missouri, I'm sure) can walk around freely carrying guns in public settings.

That's why many of us have simply been pleading that people like AverageJoe put themselves in others' shoes. People are tired of this shit.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #63)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:18 PM

74. When I first heard what black parents have to teach their children about public behavior

it broke my heart. I hadn't realized that when I heard it and it seemed so surreal, so insane.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:38 AM

13. Oppression over a more than 500 year time span...

Tends to take the "fight" out of a person.
Adapt or die.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:42 PM

5. She did a great job. nm

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:47 PM

7. Yes, totally absolutely agree...

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Response to dhill926 (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:39 AM

14. ^ eom

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:48 PM

8. But framing it as "white privilege" annoys white people who don't consider themselves privileged!


Don't you want to have a productive discussion and not alienate your wonderful, awesome white allies?
(even more)

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:10 AM

29. I'm disadvantaged but can't be annoyed. I won't play games with those who are.

It's about respect and learning. I learned as a kid that my white skin was saving me a lot of grief. And that the world should not be that way. IOW, I agree with you 100%.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:21 AM

49. With all due respect, NMNM08, your sarcasm is terribly misplaced.

 

Doing your best not to alienate one's potential allies can go a long way to making much-needed progress.....

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #49)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:08 AM

52. Tiptoeing around the issues hasn't done much good either.

So between that and a more "direct" approach, I'd call it a draw at best.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #52)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:42 PM

85. "Tiptoeing around the issues hasn't done much good either." That much is true as well.

 

My point is, we have a very serious fight to keep fighting. There IS a very real conspiracy in this country to disenfranchise People of Color in this country, and this same conspiracy has designs for the rest of us 99 Percenters as well.

I only hope we can really pull ourselves together before it becomes too late to make change without having to shed our own blood defending ourselves en masse as well. And judging by what's happened here, that may not be so long.....

In any case, it seems that I've worn out my welcome here, so I'll just trash this thread but if you'd like to talk to me privately, feel free.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:49 PM

9. K&R

Rachel rocks!!!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:52 PM

10. I don't totally agree.

I believe upon first glance and sadly rightly so, that Race is a factor. But I believe that is also tactical. There would be (in some minds) sadly less outcry possibly at the issues seemingly revolving around an Af. Am. community and being besieged and attacked by Military-trained cops and swat persons then there might be if the persons where white. I see this is a horrendous double down horror upon their community and I also see it extending out from it into the Occupy Protestors and soon others. Very soon. We, as a Country and as a people now need to stand together and fight to protect each other from the "crazy" people, the empowered small percent people, the people who are poisoning our Planet or controlling everything from what we eat to what we read.

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Response to glinda (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:09 AM

11. Agree. A bit of a convenient oversimplification.

 

We feed on memes and simple reductions, at the expense of deeper understanding of events.

We can do better.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:42 AM

16. We Are better, NYC_SKP, and we can.

Well said.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:52 AM

22. Very true. And yes, we CAN do better. We HAVE to.

 

TBH, I realize that most people on here who push the "white privilege" meme are well-meaning. But many of them don't realize that it just hasn't worked, when it comes to teaching the public. It really hasn't.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:05 AM

27. I swear, you need to cut it out.

 

Like a dog with a bone you are.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:38 AM

36. if innocent black guys being shot and killed isn't teaching the public, they just don't give a shit

if they are arguing over terms like "white privilege" and ignoring the victims of racism they don't want to learn.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:57 AM

40. "if they are arguing over terms" With all due respect, JI7, this actually proves my point.

 

That is exactly the problem.
People who'd be otherwise quite willing to learn are turned off when they hear stuff like "white privilege". Hell, I've actually seen this unfold myself more times than I care to count! And is it really all deep-seated prejudice(of course, granted, that can be the case with at least a few), or are many people who have a problem really just baffled as to how they're "privileged", especially with so many people struggling, these days?

Not to make it seem like I have the worst situation in the world, by the way(truthfully, I don't).....but for some honest perspective, I know that there are some People of Color who do happen to have a better slot in life than I do; for example, I have Attention Deficit Disorder. I haven't been able to find a steady job in five years. And chances are, I may never be able to hold one, mainly due to my physical weaknesses. And I still have to live with a still somewhat dysfunctional family, whose heads are still avid FOX News watchers(especially dad, the supposed near-genius of the family). And I even struggle with social anxiety. So yeah, call that "privileged" if you'd like. Although, to be fair, I also realize that there's plenty of others who have it worse than I do as well, that much is also very true.

My point is, the reality of societal disparity isn't all just about race & skin color. It is much more complex than that. Unfortunately, "white privilege", whether people realize it or not, ends up oversimplifying things, even if that's not the intention. And when we oversimplify things, everybody in the 99% loses.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:27 AM

44. they aren't willing to learn and they don't care

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Response to JI7 (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:40 AM

45. Or they were turned off by the descriptor. Which seems to be the majority of cases. nt

 

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #45)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:49 AM

46. that shows they don't care

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Response to JI7 (Reply #46)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:15 AM

47. No, what it shows, is that that tactic isn't fucking working.

 

Forgive the harsh language, if you would, but I'd truly wish you'd wake up and smell the damn coffee.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #47)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:21 AM

48. wake up and smell the damn coffee is what those who dismiss innocents being shot

should do.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #48)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:27 AM

51. That I agree with.

 

But screaming about "white privilege" ain't doing a damn thing for the most part. Again, why not just call this whole situation was it is? Institutional discrimination towards, and the disadvantages levelled against, People of Color. People who can be educated aren't going to want to hear that they have special "privileges".....but they will listen if you ditch the academics and get straight to the point. In fact, if you look around, you see MANY people who do acknowledge this reality without calling it "privilege", even as a metaphor.

Perhaps I myself may be a tad too vocal for my own good sometimes, but you know what? It comes out of a very real and heartfelt concern for not just those poor folks in Ferguson, but the state of the country, and the world, at large. And if we don't get it right now, who knows how long it could take to set things right?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #46)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:11 AM

53. Exactly. If they're so self-centered as to get hung up on a relatively innocuous two-word phrase

then I can't see them being very good political allies to anyone.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:36 PM

70. Short and sweet.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:54 AM

61. I fear you are providing

troll food

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Response to JI7 (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:34 PM

69. +1,000

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:24 AM

68. It makes some white people uncomfortable

but that doesn't mean it's wrong or that it isn't working.

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Response to glinda (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:40 AM

15. Hear! Hear!! nt

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:24 AM

12. I agree and whites should always listen to learn. If equality means anything, it means everyone.

There should be unity to stop this even if it's not clearly understood. We must learn to support us all. Glad to see your post here LS. AA's are being vindicated right now. This isn't paranoia or hype, it's real.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)


Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:56 AM

24. ...

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Response to freshwest (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:07 AM

28. Never fails.

 

It's like the secret magic word to get those types to turn out. Say white privilege, that's who shows up to disprove it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:23 AM

32. There must a tag followed by a bot program to alert on that term. Or it may be supernatural...

We could just make an OP with nothing but 'WHITE PRIVILEGE! ' repeated as a wall of text and watch it draw a crowd.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:30 AM

34. I know exactly who will show up.

 

I can think of five off the top of my head. It though they were an AI collective for a while.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:48 AM

37. WHITE PRIVILEGE! WHITE PRIVILEGE! WHITE PRIVILEGE! WHITE PRIVILEGE!

Four will automatically appear now. Kicking for Liberal Stalwart!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:11 PM

72. They seem to overlap with the issue of women's rights too.

I think I see the same names denying the existence of oppression/privilege in both cases.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:45 AM

59. Whites and everyone. I think we all can use this lesson over and over again until it really sinks.

 

The black pop artist Pharell recently spoke of being the "New Black". He defined the New Black person as someone who has not necessarily forgotten about racism, but as one who doesn't allow racism to be a roadblock to achieving life goals and success. I get where he's coming from and all. But Mike Brown didn't allow racism to be a roadblock. To suggest that implies that the onus is on black people/people of color; that the fault of racism lies at the feet of black people--that Trayvon Martin was responsible for his own demise. That black and brown people walking down the street are stopped and frisked, having done nothing wrong, or followed in stores are responsible for their own physical features and thus deserved to be followed.

That white people don't even have to think of these things IS a privilege. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand, but there are a good number of black, brown, and yellow people of color who also think this society has gotten past all of that. And to a large extent, it has...until something like a Trayvon or a Mike Brown or a fellow simply playing with a toy gun in a Wal-Mart gets shot to death.

I appreciate you, freshwest, and those who did not flame me or alert this thread.

Frankly, I totally expected my OP to get alerted and was shocked when it didn't.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:20 AM

17. The Ferguson suburbs looked like Egypt tonight. Huge clouds of tear gas covered the town.

I was horrified by what I saw on TV tonight. People were being tear gassed in their front yards. The cops rode around in what looked like tanks, pointing assault weapons at peaceful protesters. The Police Chief needs to be in jail for ordering this assault on the citizenry. The cop who shot Brown needs to be arrested and tried.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:27 AM

18. In an OP last night, I posted a video of a cop in

Ferguson shouting at protesters, calling them "all you animals" and telling them to "bring it."

http://colorlines.com/archives/2014/08/police_officer_calls_ferguson_protestors_animals.html

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:37 AM

56. Easy to say "Bring it on" if you are the only one with a gun

 

“ In stark contrast, the protestors in Ferguson--all unarmed--are treated like animals, told to go home.”

And THAT is the reason for the two groups were handled differently. The police show that it is easy to be brave when they are the only ones with guns.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:46 AM

19. The cops have been doing this for years to protesters of any color.

Not referring to the shooting itself. When I protested the war in SF Ca., and the infamous Oakland dock protests, we got cops in formation, full riot gear at 8 in the morning. They had an agenda. That day people were gassed and shot at with rubber bullets, chased, corralled and arrested. It was surreal. Oakland police are notorious. That was several years ago. I won't compare it in scale to the current situation, the tactical weapons are different now too. Not saying race isn't a factor either in this situation. But it sure looks like race was a factor, as well as politics in the Bundy incident. It would also not have been allowed had it been a bunch of hippies, or any occupy. Going against the authoritarian system, my experience has been that my white skin doesn't offer much protection.

This towns police force supposedly has 53 officers, only three are non-white. The town is 2/3 black. That is not an accident.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:50 AM

20. I like Rachel, but here's a honest question: did she actually use the word "privilege"?

 

That's a very important distinction to know, by the way. Because you know what? There is a huge difference between understanding that social disparities do exist between whites and PoC, and chalking it up to some supposed literal "privilege" of white people. Even though no such literal privilege ever existed to begin with.

And as much as I hate to say this.....

To try to get people to understand, not to make white people feel guilty. Not to accuse white folk of racism--real or unconscious.


Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say this, that is the exact same impression that so many people who'd otherwise be quite open to understanding, get damn near every time someone uses that term. Because, sadly, in many cases, that is exactly the insinuations that ARE put forward, including insinuating that all white people are guilty of racism, etc.; and, btw,

BTW, as I have just mentioned, I know all too well that there are very real disparities in American society, and I'm glad that Rachel has helped expose that. But as I and some others have correctly pointed out, so many times, "white privilege" has failed as a teaching tool for the general public, and it's not hard to find the evidence for that if you're willing to look(hence, for example, why Social Justice as a whole often gets confused with a small minority of wackos on Tumblr).

This really isn't about me, by the way, in case you might be wondering(and please, don't claim otherwise!). No, I actually speak from the point of view of the bigger picture. Let's just call this problem what it is: a very real disadvantage of People of Color compared to the "norm". And not some imaginary extra "privilege" of white people. And then we'll make some real progress.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:16 AM

54. All white people are "guilty" of *benefiting* from racism, at least indirectly.

Not their/our fault - none of us chooses the circumstances of our birth - but it is something we all need to be aware of, and keep in mind when discussing these issues.

And, as people have tried to explain over and over, what "privilege" mainly consists of is the bad things that don't happen to you because you're white/male/heterosexual/etc. etc. I don't know why you insist on taking the term so literally, then arguing against a strawman which, indeed, does not exist.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:53 AM

60. She didn't have to use the word "privilege". But she clearly drew the contrast and she clearly

 

highlighted the disparate treatment. No, she didn't use the word but the message was quite clear, just as it is quite clear to most of those commenting in this thread who understood what she meant. It's just that you simply refuse to open your eyes, and I can't help you with that. You come here to this discussion and all discussions on this issue to be contrarian and rile emotions.

I believe deep down you know what we mean but you can't bring yourself to admit the truth, and again, that's really sad.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:52 AM

21. reminds me of this editorial.

America is not for black people....

"Brown was shot dead while James Eagan Holmes—who on July 20, 2012, walked into a movie theater and fired rounds into an audience, killing 12 and wounding 70 more—was taken alive. "

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/america-is-not-for-black-people-1620169913/+GregHoward1%20%E2%80%A6



The contrast of not shooting a man who killed several people and left no possible doubt of his guilt, versus shooting a man suspected of stealing candy is an absolutely vile state of affairs.

Black men have to carry the weight of an assumption of criminality. They have to prove their lack of malice and take deliberate precautions because the way they look could get them killed.



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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:18 AM

30. It doesn't matter what we call it, white privilege, institutionalized racism, or tint targeting.

It is here, evil, outdated, and used to suppress all of us. We all feel the effects. Some of us much more harshly.

Let's stop fixing the blame and start fixing the problem.
How much human potential was wasted just because some felt they had to rig the system because they didn't want to fairly compete.


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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:59 AM

41. "Let's stop fixing the blame and start fixing the problem."

 

It is here, evil, outdated, and used to suppress all of us. We all feel the effects. Some of us much more harshly.....

How much human potential was wasted just because some felt they had to rig the system because they didn't want to fairly compete.


This, this, is my point, exactly. Wonderfully stated.

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:46 PM

78. The very fact that you believe that someone is blaming you proves Rachel's point. No one is

 

assigning blame to the white race. What she (I and many in this thread) is simply trying to get you to acknowledge is that you do not have to think about being treated different just based on your skin color. That skin color is assigned certain positive or negative characteristics is problematic. We do this in society whether you and AverageJoe90 admits this or not. White people are privileged because they never have to even think about negative behavioral characteristics assigned to the simply because they have white skin. They never have to think about being targeted or assumed to be doing something wrong simply because of their skin color. That is white skin privilege.

Now, if that is too difficult for you to grasp (or accept), I can't help you.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #78)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:26 PM

82. I might be reading too much into your statement, if so sorry.

I do not think any one is blaming me for anything (other than poor grammar, run on sentences, and my penchant for personal anecdotal over verified evidence). Nor am I trying to deny the existence of White Privilege, it exists like a giant wart on the face of humanity. It's root go deep into the age of European Exploration/Colonialism, the Victorian Era, the Atlantic slave trade. You might be able to successfully argue the White Privilege is closely linked to the spread of Western Civilization itself.

My point is the label is of less importance than the issue.

No one should have to worry about being treated differently for any reason at all.
Not Hue of skin, not hues of eyes, not gender, not gender preference, not years spent circling the sun, Not how someone might personally feel about divinity, Nothing.
The problem is how do we positively effect change?

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:35 AM

35. Even Chris Hays was asking what provoked the police, assuming SOMETHING must have.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:54 AM

39. Has everyone seen this photo?

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:22 AM

50. I bet it was compelling, Liberal_Stalwart.. I saw her show last night on

Ferguson, MO's has well documented proof on how racially biased the cops are and how they treat its Black Citizens. They just haven't done anything the hell about it

I'm so grateful Rachel has done the contrast between the bundy standoff and how the police treat Black people in our country.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 06:55 AM

62. Here's the link

Little faith in fairness in Ferguson

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show

Cali it what it is - institutional racism

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:07 AM

64. Rachel is doing a great job on this story

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:16 AM

65. I find the youtube videos

of cops politely chatting about rights with guys walking down the street with AR15's strapped to their shoulders hilarious. They're so apologetic for stopping them.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:07 PM

71. As a white person I knew this to be true a long time ago.

When the Bundy stand off occurred I stated that if a black person in South Central L.A. refused to pay property taxes and their armed friends gathered and pointed their rifles at federal officers, you KNOW the feds would not stand down. No fucking way.

I'm still pissed off at the Bundy situation, for so many reasons. Sent all the wrong messages and emboldened all the wrong people.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:12 PM

73. "not to make white people feel guilty"

 

Of course not. Nobody would try to do something as fucking stupid as that. We're all in this together, but first, let's point out your issues.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:21 PM

75. K&R

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:30 PM

76. I still don't get why you think all White people

need to be taught about privilege. Can you for a minute try to understand that living in my white skin for over 68 years I know that I have privilege? It comes with the skin you can't honestly deny it.
Do you think I don't know I have been given preferential treatment?

I also get treated better if I have a first class ticket or an excellent credit score or a higher education. It is a thing given to you by others for their purposes not yours.
I know how you will reply to this because we've been here before.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #76)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:36 PM

77. Maybe not all white people, but a scarily high number of them....

... seem to quite easily deny it. I can defend this assertion with an easy Google if you require.

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Response to moriah (Reply #77)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:48 PM

79. I know White people who deny it.

I grew up with a dad and his co workers who denied it all the while doing all they could to keep their privilege in tact.
The thing I admire most about other races is the fact that they are supposed to be as successful as anyone with one arm tied behind their back. That has taught me to learn to cope with mental disabilities and be as successful as anyone.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:31 PM

83. Kick

 

Durec

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