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4,000 years ago, Egyptian women used contraception. We've been lifting each other up for way longer. #V2V14 #LPJ927
1:04 PM - 27 Sep 2014
http://theobamadiary.com
dhill926
(16,333 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)At the top it says 3000 BCE
immoderate
(20,885 posts)Edit to add: it could make intercourse kind of messy, don'tcha think?
--imm
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Definitely controls the size of the family.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)is abundant. You also have to be living in Egypt 4000 years ago.
Lithos
(26,403 posts)3000 BCE + 2000 CE = 5000 years...
****
BTW, am curious how this would work, other than putting off the act.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Once you get past the yuck factor, the theory is that the dung and the dough would absorb sperm and that acids in the dung and the dough would act as a spermicide. Think of it as an ancient contraceptive sponge. There was another method which involved using a linen pad and acacia paste which sounds more pleasant--at least for the woman--guys probably preferred the crock poop.
The crocodile dung was probably dried in the sun and processed in some way. It may not been as gross as it sounds to us--the Egyptians used many animal products as well as plants in their medicine chests. Some worked, others not so much.
Lithos
(26,403 posts)Sounds a bit more feasible/pragmatic to me.
Just googled and the dung has abnormally low Ph values (alkaline) which would give it spermicidal properties. However, I wonder if a low alkali material would not cause other issues to the woman.
L-
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Someone who was using it daily might have some problems after a time but as good as they were at treating things which had a clear cause--broken bones, wounds, etc. and at treating some conditions, the Egyptian physicians were not terribly good at seeing why diseases happened. When in doubt, they tended to put the blame on unseen supernatural forces. If a woman who was using this stuff got, say, tumors down the line, I doubt they'd be able to single out the croc dung among so many other possibilities, including the supernatural, as the cause. Drink these herbs and ground donkey foot dissolved in wine and recite this prayer to Isis (the goddess not the terror group) three times a day was a pretty common sort of prescription.
Unfortunately we don't have the full texts of any of the ancient Egyptian medical books. What we have are copies and abstracts from individual physicians who kept what was useful for them. Some of these pretty clearly were better than others, and some, the Edwin Smith papyrus for example are startlingly modern in outlook--others were more magical in content--probably their patients would not be satisfied at just being given medicine--both doctors and patients believed that the magical approach was equally important.
Orrex
(63,189 posts)Shame!
Shame!
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Wild carrot and, so it is thought, sylphium in the ancient world
politicat
(9,808 posts)It's based on a 7 word fragment from a 5000 year old papyri, the Kahun Gynaeological Papyrus. Like every other 5000 year old document, it is shattered, cracked, dry, and falling apart, and much of it is lost. We also are not great at translating any form of ancient Egyptian.
The fragment is from section 21, and reads (in the best translation I've found)
To prevent ..........
... crocodile's dung cut up (?) on auyt-paste ()1, sprinkled ..............
(1) Stephen Quirke: chopped over HsA and awyt-liquid
Section 20 is A Remedy for Getting Pregnant, and section 22 is Another Recipe. The latter is the honey based recipe that also gets trotted out for ancient Egyptian contraception.
Auyt-paste is either sourdough starter or something like gum arabic -- it's not clear from context ever. It does seem to be used as a thickener.
But there are all sorts of problems here. To prevent what? Pregnancy? Or miscarriage? We don't know the first part of the formula. We don't know where it's meant to be sprinkled, if anything is to be sprinkled, or if that means sprinkling on the dough. We don't know if this is a fresh mix, or one that is supposed to sit outside and dehydrate for a few days. We don't even know if crocodile dung is meant absolutely literally. We don't have contemporary Egyptian metaphors, euphemisms, and local idioms. (Case in point: When I refer to Rocky Mountain Oysters, most people understand that I mean breaded, deep-fried lamb or cattle testicles. They don't think there is a species of high altitude, fresh water, stream or small lake based mollusks. But in 5000 years, that bit of idiom may be lost. Same with urinal cake and air biscuits.) People have been euphemizing and making in-jokes for as long as language has existed.
Yes, there is a chance that literal crocodile dung, if gathered when fully dry (after all, we are talking a desert climate), might be spermicidal (it's alkaline without being as basic as say, lye, which they also had), might have been both sterile enough to be safely used and effective enough to be worth passing around. But there's also a lot of mythology involved. Seth, who was invoked in difficult childbirths, had a crocodile's head. There could be sympathetic magic involved -- crocodile dung, when dry, looks something like goose droppings, except white. When mixed with something like sour dough starter, it would look a little like semen. It comes from the same place, the cloaca, as eggs, so would be the polar opposite of fertility. Or it could be a simple aversion therapy -- make every act of procreation so unpleasant that nobody bothered much.
But seriously, basing anything on a seven word fragment with unclear definitions -- terrible. Bad scholarship, and honestly, worse politics.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I have to say, that would probably work to the extent that no one would want to get too close to that.