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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDear White Racists...
Dear white racists and your fragile fee-fees:
Relax, I'm white, too. Look, I can do the secret handshake and nudge-nudge, wink-wink. Lemme whitesplain something to you, fellow white men: no one buys your bullshit. That's because your bullshit runs like this: For historically- and presently-oppressed black people to be treated decently, they must carefully avoid doing anything that could be remotely twisted into behaving like a white racist, even if you're squinting and looking at it from five hundred meters away in a thick fog. Because that would be racist, and therefore hypocritical, and if that's the case, they deserve to continue to be oppressed.
Here's the thing you thick-headed assholes totally fail to get: NO ONE DESERVES TO BE OPPRESSED, PERIOD. You can talk all you want about how it's okay for black people to be mistreated if--- but get this, there is no "if". It's not okay, ever. That's why we call it mistreatment. Your error is to think that it's ever justified, and your active misdeed is to constantly search for a justification. Black people, collectively, are not guilty of anything. In fact, a basic principle of civil society is that we reject the notion of collective guilt.
Some individual black people, like individual white people, have done bad things, and in those cases, may deserve judicial punishments. But even those people don't deserve mistreatment from some random white guy on the street. And black people in general don't owe anyone anything as a prerequisite for being treated decently. No one does.
Now I know there are a bunch of you in the back of the room waving your hand and getting ready to launch the argument that it's racist to complain about white privilege. No, it is not. Complaining about white privilege is not the same as assigning collective guilt to white people. White privilege is a pervasive feature of our society and our legal system. It's hard to see if you're white (and you're not looking or actively trying not to look), but it is real, it is powerfully destructive, and if global warming had the kind of statistical support that evidence of white privilege has, Bill O'Reilly would be haranguing FOX News viewers to install solar panels.
And here's the subtle point that you folks either can't or won't grasp. White privilege is especially the responsibility of white people to fix, not because we're all racist schlubs like you are, but because white privilege itself means that we're the ones who have the power to change it. Black people don't have that power, again because of white privilege, and not because they aren't sufficiently careful in the way they phrase their complaints about being mistreated. It's our problem and our responsibility as white people to fix not because whites are collectively guilty, but because it is the responsibility of ALL PEOPLE to fight for decent treatment for ALL PEOPLE. It just happens that, because of our shithead ancestors and a helping handful of historical accident, we white people are the ones who can do something about it. When the finger on the trigger is white, it's pointless to ask a black guy to lower the gun.
And quite frankly, given all the shit that our black fellow citizens have put up with, and all the shit they have to deal with every. fucking. day., if some of them lose their tempers and say things that aren't carefully calibrated to kiss your privileged, hypersensitive asses, well, is that actually surprising? You lose your minds when black people just complain verbally about being kicked. Imagine how tough it would be for you to keep your cool if someone was actually doing something to you instead of just talking.
Finally, yes, I know this is pointless. You want to be offended to fluff your fragile egos, and you want black people to please shut the fuck up and stop harshing your mellow. I hate to break it to you, but as long as people are being murdered by the state, given draconian sentences for crimes that in many cases they haven't even committed, and being held in poverty and privation and a constant state of fear, those of us who actually give a shit about our fellow citizens are going, at the very least, to make some noise about it.
In the meantime, if you can't be bothered to do your duty as an American to protect your fellow Americans with the considerable power at your disposal, at least shut the fuck up and stop making an ass of yourself.
Regards,
Your fellow privileged white guy
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/01/1333622/--Dear-White-Racists-is-One-of-the-Best-Explanations-of-White-Privilege-You-Will-Likely-Ever-Read#
gollygee
(22,336 posts)"Black people don't have that power, again because of white privilege, and not because they aren't sufficiently careful in the way they phrase their complaints about being mistreated."
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)brush
(53,467 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)They are only guided by fear, hatred and vengeance.
It's going to take a mass awakening of consciousness out of their collective hate nightmare.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Facebook it.. Tweet the link!
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Black people aren't the only ones that aren't sufficiently careful in the way they phrase their complaints about mistreatment, either.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)or, indeed, the issue being discussed.
You could be talking about how food is prepared and start out with 'fragile fee fees' and you'd still end up reaching fewer people than if you simply left that part out. Throwing insults into anything you write distracts from the actual message and makes it less effective at communicating your message.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)"hysterical" woman. (Yeah, we have noticed we're held to different standards)
And who is it "problematic" for- the white dude who allows himself unlimited righteous rants on his own favorite topics.
You're half right, but part of the solution is that people get over themselves, and realize they are operating under double standards.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I wouldn't bother to tell Republicans they would benefit by changing their tone, for instance, because I'm happy to leave them communicating poorly. I want people with whom I agree, who are trying to promote important societal changes to get their message across as clearly as possible, to as many people as possible, not to self-sabotage the ability of that message to reach a wider audience simply so the people who already agree can fist-bump and feel righteous.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)about going along with the tone thing. The truth is, this largely comes from people who just do not want to hear it- nothing would make contemplating these ideas palatable to them. The goal posts always move! They start advising you to do stupid shit like protest topless, because THAT would make them happy. Yeah, DUers have given that advice. It's not about making people happy and comfortable. It can't be that, and be honest.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I used to simply blow aside the 'tone' argument as being exactly how you're portraying it. Until I actually took classes on effective communication, at which point my own 'tone' changed as well, and I largely stopped using sarcasm and 'joking', for instance. Such comments made me feel 'witty', and even made people who already liked what I was saying applaud me, but they did nothing to actually change anyone's mind. So I decided to stop writing for 'me', and started writing for the people with whom I was actually trying to convince to change their positions.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)you transform the content into something more palatable. I'd honestly be very interested in reading that.
That said, I think it is more intended to be an eye opener for those who are subjected to this racial bullshit and are still impressionable.
Obviously, not everyone is.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I would love to see those condemning the OP for its tone, to re-write it in a more acceptable tone.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I hope he'd do better than the let's just be pro "humanist" so we don't harsh the buzz of white guys (and give them the best seat at the table!) crap women hear all the time about feminism.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)as you just so aptly showed us, it can be done.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Likely not. But hope is a good thing.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)my eyes roll at all of these "open letters" that are really just onanistic rehashes of
facts that are either (a) self-evident, or (b) will never be seen by anyone who needs
to see them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)maybe you need to check into why that's about. Onanistic indeed.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I care about racism. I just find it tedious that these "Hey, you racists! Listen up!" messages pop up every week, as though
anyone on DU needs another one.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)How did DUers ever force you to do all that?
They didn't, and your expression of contempt here is - for that reason- as unnecessary as it is unwelcome.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,481 posts)the smug part).
Iggo
(47,487 posts)You didn't call you a racist.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)the content has been posted, refined, re-posted, refined again, and re-posted several times by people
more interested in gaining acclaim for their description of the problem rather than offering solutions. Unless
"hey, you're a racist. Stop it" is meant to be a solution.
Iggo
(47,487 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)in a place where the intended audience won't see it?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the intended audience are both the wildly racist folks (that probably won't read it) AND the good and liberals of DU that would dismiss it as merely a rehashing and re-defining of the obvious?
sheshe2
(83,329 posts)It was a comment to this article that I posted here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11879156
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Social disparity is still a problem in this country, yes. I doubt there's many people here on DU who will doubt that. But when someone feels the need to repeat that they are a "privileged" person who somehow "gets it".....well, that does make you wonder sometimes, doesn't it?
fishwax
(29,146 posts)explaining (as white folk) to people of color how they're wrong about racism and how they lack a real understanding of how race works in America.
Also: those who insist on explaining (as men) to women how they're wrong about sexism.
Is it possible to be right and unbearably smug at the same time? Sure. It's also possible to be wrong and unbearably smug at the same time. To be honest.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)fishwax
(29,146 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Was that not the case? Feel free to correct me if it really wasn't directed towards anyone in particular.
fishwax
(29,146 posts)If what you want to ask is whether I think this description sometimes fits your behavior, my answer to that is yes.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Now ... Drop the mic and walk off the stage!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)3rdwaydem
(277 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)For one thing, I don't think such a letter would begin with the salutation "Dear white racists and your fragile fee-fees".
I think this is more of a frustrated vent against racists.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Which, as has been pointed out in this thread, are becoming tedious. Preaching to the choir so as to get recs. What is the point?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)what their point is ... as nearly every one of their POS Used car selling posts are vanity post in a 1st or 3rd-way way.
Yet, no one (very few) feels the need to point out their tediousness or preaching to the choir so as to get recs-ness.
I Wonder why that is?
ProfessorGAC
(64,413 posts)And my post got deleted for being rude. Pointing out self-serving posts as self-serving is not a popular thing to do 'round here.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)certain DUers or certain topics ...
Race threads = Tediousness + Vanity posts ... I'm not getting mine/Government is bad threads = Daily Must Read (and rec) posts.
I love this liberal site!
ProfessorGAC
(64,413 posts)There's a difference in those. My hidden post was based upon experiences so similar to the post i criticized that i thought i had the standing to make the comment. Wrong, i guess.
But, i concur with your call on this.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Every time Manny or WillyT makes such a post, it is pointed out in at least a couple of replies that these are exactly that. About the same number that have made such observations in this thread.
Posts like this OP paint a cartoonish picture of liberals and Dems. They are useless.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)sheshe2
(83,329 posts)It is one of 750 comments to an article.
Here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11879156
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)After all, it IS shameful that racism is still a problem in 2014. But I agree, I do think persuasion is often the best way to go about things; casual racists, at least, sometimes CAN be saved if nudged in the right direction.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)non of whom know that your nieces are mixed race......
Iggo
(47,487 posts)Gets reeeaaallll interesting sometimes.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)know about White Privilege, so this rant isn't anything new.
The bigger problem is that there are rants aplenty, but no real solutions to the problem.
It's easy to say, "We, as white guys, need to fix the problem".
Yeah?
HOW???
Why doesn't anyone ever seem to have answers on how to fix the problem? A step-by-step guide.
How long have people been making noise about it? How's that working?
Seems as stupid as a bunch of people sitting around a leaking faucet, talking about how it's a huge problem that has to be fixed, only nobody says, "Look, here's what we have to do...step one, step two, step three..." etc. Sitting around making noise about the problem isn't going to fix it.
How about some concrete steps?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)have you ever thought of a solution to white privilege and white racism? Do you think there is a solution? Do you care if there can be found, a solution? Just questions that beg an answer. "sitting around making noise about a problem isn't going to fix it". The more noise, the more attention. Attention brings scrutiny and hopefully scrutiny will lead to a solution or solutions. But noise is what brings attention. That possibly will bring a solution to white racism in america.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Hence, the OP.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)posted right here on DU, written by both white and Black folks, written to the good liberals here on DU, that suggest/indicate concrete steps to affect w/p. There are all met with ...
Yeah?
HOW???
Why doesn't anyone ever seem to have answers on how to fix the problem? A step-by-step guide.
How long have people been making noise about it? How's that working?
Seems as stupid as a bunch of people sitting around a leaking faucet, talking about how it's a huge problem that has to be fixed, only nobody says, "Look, here's what we have to do...step one, step two, step three..." etc. Sitting around making noise about the problem isn't going to fix it.
How about some concrete steps?
But only in the discussion space between:
And,
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Boston Globe does, and this is what we hear. Does not matter as much as ___________. Blah blah blah.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)You noticed that too. Rants aplenty, but lacking solutions. And try engaging, only to get snark in return. I often wonder if asking a cop to stop me for driving while white can be part of the solution. You know, equal treatment and all?
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)K?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the DU non-racists that post racist crap, too.
MerryBlooms
(11,728 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)There is a group of disabled women in Chicago called the Empowered FeFe's.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)A Great Piece. Too bad the people who really need to read it think DU and Kos are the modern equivalents of the Comintern.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)The sad thing is.....in this current era, "white privilege" theory, or at least the iteration which has gained the most popularity today, has become part of the problem, not the solution. I'm sure Eodell meant well, but I'm afraid he doesn't fully understand the complete reality.....which is that "white privilege" is, if anything at all, nothing more than an illusion. DHFabian wrote this as a response: "Millions of white people do not enjoy the privileges of the middle class of any color. Middle classers of this generation (all races) are inexplicable clueless about the realities of our socioeconomic conditions today. What do we call black people in poverty? "Disadvantaged." What do we call white people in poverty? "White trash." I'll never be able to fathom why people don't see that corporations couldn't care less about the color of the people they can exploit -- and the people they can exploit are the poor (regardless of race)."
And you know what? This is so damn true. There are MILLIONS of underprivileged white folks out there, many of whom live in the South. This isn't just a black problem, or a Latino problem. I used to be aligned with the "white privilege" crowd myself, but once I started understanding just how things really worked.....well, let's just say I had to adjust my attitude to fix that. And it's honestly sad to see some people still trying to stir up shit on this site, just to earn brownie points from their compadres.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)before:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5611464
And you got them BOTH in in a single post. Good Job!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)water is wet ... sun rises in the East ... DU "Liberal/progressive" denies the existence of white privilege or says it's "classism, stupid".
But this one is noteworthy ... rarely will a DU "Liberal/progressive" deny the existence of white privilege AND say it's "classism, stupid", in the same post.
.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Growing up in the fifties with the television news and hearing the words of so many white racists, it was hard to miss. I've never forgotten phrases proving that separate was NOT equal, the mantra for many years. As if there was nothing different going on.
In the sixties as the civil rights movement made gains again, there was more proof how entrenched the system was. I also saw the difference voting made in the seventies.
I have a wary eye, since I can't forget those years as I wasn't brought up in the 'post racial' era. Uou can't heal without first cleaning out the wound, and it will be painful. Some object to that on DU, they want to put a bandaid on it and forget that it ever happened.
Then their demands for solutions can be met, but that still won't come from the offended party. Those who want a solution have to admit there's a wound, then clean it, or they'll never see a solution.
Rex
(65,616 posts)then I might consider reviewing my thoughts on white privilege. The poster makes the common mistake of saying being poor and white, is somehow denying them of this privilege and it tells me the poster doesn't understand what we are talking about or is purposely clueless and wants to stay that way.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the racial status quo can only be thought about AFTER there are no more poor white folks in America.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I'll reconsider that there is no white privilege. Until then, yeah there totally is this thing called white privilage...if you decide to ignore it then that is your right.
It's sad to see people pretend being poor and white, excludes you from that privilege - it does not. Then again, some of us have seen it with our own two eyes - so denial is out of the question.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,481 posts)sheshe2
(83,329 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Because you know what? There truly are a LOT of idiot RWNJs in particular out there, who really do believe that they are("temporarily embarrassed millionaires", anyone), and that they really, truly, are losing these supposed extra privileges, because of "Muslumkenyunmarxistcommy" Obama, or political correctness, etc. Don't you get it? Guys like Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage use those dog whistles all the time. They say one thing, but , in all truthfulness what they really mean is, "Yes, you are indeed rightly blessed-by-God privileged, and these evil scum lefties are trying to take all that away from you in the guise of so-called equality. Pay no attention to the Koch Brothers. Pay no attention to inequality, or political corruption, et cetera. The black is your enemy. The Latin is your enemy.....".
In other words, remember that old quote from the famous author, John Steinbeck, about socialism? For these purposes, I have taken literary liberties and repurposed the quote for the purposes of this subject:
"Social justice has not yet won out in America because some whites see themselves, not as themselves exploited & abused by the .1 Percent,, but instead as rightfully privileged members of American society, who are really only in danger at the hands of the progressive left, who seek to create a socialist dictatorship."
betsuni
(25,122 posts)LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)/s
I can't believe some of the idiocy people applaud on here.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Different people respond to different approaches, which is why a diversity of approaches is often needed for mass propaganda. There are other important factors too, such as constructs of shared identities and/or common enemies.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)"Black people don't have that power, again because of white privilege, and not because they aren't sufficiently careful in the way they phrase their complaints about being mistreated."
The Tone Argument sucks. Racism doens't have to only be discussed in a way that's easy for white people to hear.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)They convince no one. They are simply fuel for internet militants to stroke themselves over and pat themselves on the back for being so enlightened.
You can cry "tone policing" all you want. It won't change the fact that this crap is ineffective preaching to the choir.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and if they are, then the choir needs more practice because they're still off key.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)I know buzz words like "whitesplain" and "white privilege" really do the job for SJWs, but they don't do much in the real world. This is especially true when you follow those buzzwords up with phrases like " you thick-headed assholes" and "...fellow white men: no one buys your bullshit".
Hard to believe a rational person wouldn't be convinced be that, isn't it?
Shit like this need to be kept on tumblr where it belongs.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And even when people are upset by how things are worded, they still might learn from them.
Also, you're assuming all racist people are rational when you say, "Hard to believe a rational person wouldn't be convinced by that, isn't it?"
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and what term would you prefer (instead of white privilege) when describing that current racial status quo?
KentuckyWoman
(6,666 posts)There is some ugliness going on in my town because ebola is in the USA. Some yehoos around here think treating the few blacks that live in this town like ebola carriers is somehow appropriate.
This OP gave me a few tools to help put the words together for me and a good many like minded neighbors. We do not tolerate bullies in this town. Never did. But sometimes people need to get fired up.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)They try to make themselves feel better by putting those different than them down.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Though I do wonder what the OP's intent was posting this here in the first place. DU really doesn't have a significant racism problem(yes, even anti-Caucasian bigotry and anti-Semitism are rare), other than the occasional trolls, so.....yeah.
the_sly_pig
(740 posts)Seems I'm damned regardless being white and male. I think I'll continue to judge people as individuals rather than based on skin color or gender.
Racism and misogyny are products of stupidity. Privilege is borne of greed. I agree racism and misogyny are institutionalized. To enact change therefore you need to change the institutions. People need to vote to enact change. I'm not seeing an improvement in the percentage of voters in national elections.
"All politics is local" I think is a quote from Tip O'Neil. I'll continue to focus on local politics and affect change where I can. I have compassion for those less fortunate, but it certainly is difficult to remain concerned when 60% of the people don't vote.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Basic probability regarding that. About 1% to 4% are sociopaths so there is a good chance a sociopath also read this here (DU would be a good place for those chaos games sociopaths love).
Anyways, the logic behind racism amazes me and the distances one will go. They'll say they got this going for them, that going them, why are the whining? etc. Hello?? They have to live in a world w/ many others with the same sort of opinion and they hold job interviews, sit on juries, grant loans, etc.
Where I live is very racist. At a institutional level Hispanics, Mexican-Americans, Mexicans are the most profiled and discriminated against in this state (often other races are outnumbered 3:1) but when you get to the "regular Joe" level you'll see some Native Americans and Mexican-Americans OK, find a lot of whites to be cool while these racist whites are racist to those groups but reserve a special contempt for Blacks and they seem to be at the bottom of racists totem pole no matter the race. I've even seen Natives bigoted towards other Natives who belong to/or are from a different tribe(though I imagine this could be similar to English-Americans being bigoted towards Irish immigrants). Thankfully this isn't universal but it is common around here how could anyone say there isn't anything inherently unfair where you don't have to constantly to deal with people that think they are beneath them (though most racists are cowards who act very different--this where I think the logic behind these ignorant beliefs should break down). Not scientific but based on observations of racist & bigoted statements made in my years in Arizona (My experience in Sea-Tac & the Military (but still there) were very different)
Everyone is disliked by somebody due to their skin color but European-Americans have it easy though a lot of it is simply distrust, when it comes to African-Americans, you have quite a few people detesting you, interracial relationships bring out a certain level (I lost count how many rocks were thrown at us just because I was with someone that was black), over something you have no control of. And how could anyone deny that reality? Could you imagine how insulting that is?
Where is that old Tim Wise clip speaking at Tulane? Did a great job of explaining fault vs responsibility. (This is my own example) It wasn't your fault a guest you had over where you're a tenant in an apartment complex vandalized & broke into a vehicle when he was leaving your place but you're responsible. There are better examples but you get the point. If you're not the cause of the situation don't worry about it (white privilege certainly doesn't offend me as a white man) but focus on what you can do to solve the problem and don't start by denying there is a problem. (if you're honestly baffled watch some clips of "What would you do?"
In all honestly you don't have to do anything but denying it--I understand how the interpretation of "privilege" in this contest can lead to these arguments that distract from the real issue so I'm willing to ban that word in sake of discussion but any more than that leads me to be suspicious of your motives.
One other thing, being rich vs poor is an advantage but separate like being an American would give you a natural advantage over someone from a poor, authoritarian country. Handicap physical or otherwise is a natural disadvantage to the rest of the population like the Oprah exception. Economics is part of the natural disadvantage for African-Americans--this fact was around when we were in a recession or almost one (around the bailout) that they've been in a recession since the Reagan administration. 400 billionaires'-- which includes the only African-American billionaire--net worth is on par w/ 14 million African-American households. African-Americans & Latinos have a roughly 45% home ownership rate while whites are around 75%. They make up 13% of the nation's population but have 2% of the nation's total wealth. Median income for whites outnumber blacks by some $90,000. The numbers in poverty, unemployment, etc. W/ the wealth gap going up the problems will only get worse. It is obvious there is something going on whether you want to call it privilege or not and if you want to go with the "not racist" option a 2003 study showed white sounding names were 50% more likely to get called for an initial interview. Much more proof can be found but if you doubt it at this point I can't help you(only the clip rec on "what would you do?" should be sufficient)It is a vicious cycle and instead of worrying about blame, focus on doing something about it.
I miss BlooInBloo & RaineyB, they were the best at simplifying the bullshit, specifically BlooInBloo could make all the points I just made in one sentence. RaineyB who was the best at confronting head-on, in one of those countless "white privilege" she told another poster 'you want me (or us) to throw you a party for not being racist' in response to a comment which said that white people should be thanked for helping Barack Obama's election.
I don't know why they were banned but I'm afraid, especially in RaineyB's case that it wasn't for her battles which were often w/ the same damn posters who not only have the privilege of reality, but also the privilege of denying that reality for others.
Number23
(24,544 posts)they could do it in their sleep.
Their presence is really missed around here. Especially now when so many of the same bullshitters they would have taken out back to the wood shed back in the day are filling up this forum daily with their (you guessed it!) utter bullshit.