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Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:04 PM

 

Keep misandry out of feminism

By Newby Parton • Contributing Columnist • October 1, 2014

I am a feminist, so the first words I spoke at a recent town hall meeting on the new sexual assault procedures were in praise of the University’s speedy response to the new Title IX regulations. Victims of sexual assault will now have a clearer understanding of their options. They can be advised by outside counsel at meetings. Professional investigator-judges have replaced student judges, so victims can step forward without embarrassment. Our compliance marks a huge victory for women on campus, and we’re all better off as a result.

I voiced a single worry at the town hall meeting: that the new “preponderance of the evidence” standard will, definitionally, increase the likelihood of false convictions. Unknowingly, I had struck a hole into a dam. Cries of “rape culture” spewed forth

snip

But this is an important conversation, and all ideas should be heard. A few women have turned the dialogue into a battle against men and women, and in doing so I fear that they will turn men away from feminism. Men feel marginalized when our worries about a real, higher risk of wrongful suspension are disregarded. Attributing these worries to rape culture only distances us further because we begin to think that this is what feminism has become — a bias against males that mistakes all male viewpoints for oppression.

Treating an accused perpetrator as innocent until he is found guilty can be an outgrowth of human decency, not rape culture. Similarly, the belief that men are guilty until proven innocent is misandry, not feminism. Keeping the two separate is important. Feminism is the struggle to reach equality for the sexes. It is not misandry, a bias against males. Sadly, many men forget this because misandrists never identify as such. They will tell you they are simply feminists.

http://dailyprincetonian.com/opinion/2014/10/keep-misandry-out-of-feminism/

Just an article I read and really enjoyed that shows a different side of feminism. The kind of feminism that can recapture the imagination of the general public.

Read, comment and Enjoy.



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Arrow 219 replies Author Time Post
Reply Keep misandry out of feminism (Original post)
jamzrockz Oct 2014 OP
hifiguy Oct 2014 #1
Arkansas Granny Oct 2014 #3
hifiguy Oct 2014 #8
11 Bravo Oct 2014 #31
hifiguy Oct 2014 #35
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #75
stevenleser Oct 2014 #155
hifiguy Oct 2014 #176
seabeyond Oct 2014 #185
stevenleser Oct 2014 #186
seabeyond Oct 2014 #187
stevenleser Oct 2014 #188
seabeyond Oct 2014 #189
stevenleser Oct 2014 #191
seabeyond Oct 2014 #195
seabeyond Oct 2014 #196
hifiguy Oct 2014 #209
seabeyond Oct 2014 #215
hifiguy Oct 2014 #216
seabeyond Oct 2014 #217
sufrommich Oct 2014 #190
stevenleser Oct 2014 #192
seaglass Oct 2014 #193
stevenleser Oct 2014 #194
seaglass Oct 2014 #197
stevenleser Oct 2014 #198
seaglass Oct 2014 #199
JTFrog Oct 2014 #200
stevenleser Oct 2014 #204
seabeyond Oct 2014 #205
seaglass Oct 2014 #206
seabeyond Oct 2014 #207
hifiguy Oct 2014 #208
seaglass Oct 2014 #2
tkmorris Oct 2014 #4
stevenleser Oct 2014 #6
hifiguy Oct 2014 #10
stevenleser Oct 2014 #11
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #7
seaglass Oct 2014 #13
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #21
treestar Oct 2014 #42
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #45
treestar Oct 2014 #47
whathehell Oct 2014 #150
seabeyond Oct 2014 #49
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #52
whathehell Oct 2014 #158
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #120
wryter2000 Oct 2014 #67
whathehell Oct 2014 #147
seabeyond Oct 2014 #152
whathehell Oct 2014 #154
JTFrog Oct 2014 #201
whathehell Oct 2014 #218
bettyellen Oct 2014 #156
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #119
whathehell Oct 2014 #143
bettyellen Oct 2014 #146
whathehell Oct 2014 #149
bettyellen Oct 2014 #151
LineReply .
Brickbat Oct 2014 #5
1000words Oct 2014 #9
AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #12
AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #14
KamaAina Oct 2014 #15
Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #16
seabeyond Oct 2014 #17
pintobean Oct 2014 #116
hifiguy Oct 2014 #174
seabeyond Oct 2014 #175
hifiguy Oct 2014 #177
seabeyond Oct 2014 #184
Iggo Oct 2014 #18
ismnotwasm Oct 2014 #26
CTyankee Oct 2014 #19
hifiguy Oct 2014 #23
CTyankee Oct 2014 #25
AngryAmish Oct 2014 #63
CTyankee Oct 2014 #81
AngryAmish Oct 2014 #83
CTyankee Oct 2014 #84
AngryAmish Oct 2014 #91
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #172
AngryAmish Oct 2014 #173
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #181
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #92
CTyankee Oct 2014 #95
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #89
CTyankee Oct 2014 #93
AngryAmish Oct 2014 #94
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #170
hifiguy Oct 2014 #210
gollygee Oct 2014 #20
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #22
CTyankee Oct 2014 #27
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #36
gollygee Oct 2014 #64
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #131
gollygee Oct 2014 #28
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #80
whathehell Oct 2014 #157
seabeyond Oct 2014 #30
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #33
seabeyond Oct 2014 #41
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #50
gollygee Oct 2014 #53
seabeyond Oct 2014 #57
seabeyond Oct 2014 #58
Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #71
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #86
gollygee Oct 2014 #99
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #102
gollygee Oct 2014 #105
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #113
gollygee Oct 2014 #114
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #129
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #130
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #126
seabeyond Oct 2014 #54
davidn3600 Oct 2014 #72
seabeyond Oct 2014 #74
gollygee Oct 2014 #100
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #118
bettyellen Oct 2014 #127
bettyellen Oct 2014 #133
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #134
whathehell Oct 2014 #161
bettyellen Oct 2014 #106
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #110
bettyellen Oct 2014 #112
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #115
bettyellen Oct 2014 #122
hifiguy Oct 2014 #212
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #138
whathehell Oct 2014 #159
gollygee Oct 2014 #48
Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #56
seabeyond Oct 2014 #60
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #103
Brigid Oct 2014 #24
CTyankee Oct 2014 #29
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #34
Brigid Oct 2014 #37
treestar Oct 2014 #38
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #43
treestar Oct 2014 #46
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #55
seabeyond Oct 2014 #62
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #68
gollygee Oct 2014 #69
seabeyond Oct 2014 #70
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #73
seabeyond Oct 2014 #77
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #90
bettyellen Oct 2014 #125
bettyellen Oct 2014 #124
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #144
LanternWaste Oct 2014 #211
treestar Oct 2014 #117
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #142
Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #51
gollygee Oct 2014 #59
Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #76
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #140
whathehell Oct 2014 #162
99Forever Oct 2014 #96
bettyellen Oct 2014 #108
bravenak Oct 2014 #32
Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #66
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #82
alarimer Oct 2014 #39
treestar Oct 2014 #40
Demit Oct 2014 #44
99Forever Oct 2014 #61
Capt. Obvious Oct 2014 #65
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #85
MattBaggins Oct 2014 #148
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #153
seabeyond Oct 2014 #160
geek tragedy Oct 2014 #78
seabeyond Oct 2014 #79
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #88
NuclearDem Oct 2014 #98
Post removed Oct 2014 #101
NuclearDem Oct 2014 #104
jamzrockz Oct 2014 #107
bettyellen Oct 2014 #109
geek tragedy Oct 2014 #166
seabeyond Oct 2014 #167
geek tragedy Oct 2014 #169
JTFrog Oct 2014 #202
seabeyond Oct 2014 #203
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #87
boston bean Oct 2014 #97
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #111
bettyellen Oct 2014 #121
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #123
Electric Monk Oct 2014 #132
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #135
Electric Monk Oct 2014 #136
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #139
1000words Oct 2014 #163
bettyellen Oct 2014 #137
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #141
bettyellen Oct 2014 #145
ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #182
Electric Monk Oct 2014 #128
betsuni Oct 2014 #164
seabeyond Oct 2014 #165
betsuni Oct 2014 #168
Dont call me Shirley Oct 2014 #171
hifiguy Oct 2014 #213
Dont call me Shirley Oct 2014 #214
hughee99 Oct 2014 #178
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #179
MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #180
geek tragedy Oct 2014 #219
NCTraveler Oct 2014 #183

Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:07 PM

1. This should be good.

 

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:13 PM

3. Did you put butter on that? I'll bring the drinks.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:22 PM

8. Beer is always good!

 



Yep, plenty of butter. And a little cayenne pepper for my bowl.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:41 PM

31. I'm in, and I make my own special blend of popcorn salt!

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:53 PM

35. That sounds interesting.

 

What's in it?

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:22 PM

75. Oooh, that sounds good n/t

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:41 PM

155. Turned out pretty much as I expected...

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #155)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:12 AM

176. Eeyup.

 

The predictability of it all is the bemusing thing, not the issue itself.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #176)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:39 AM

185. the predictablility is the men that do not support women. to side with the Op says a hell of a lot

 

about the men in this thread

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #185)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:26 AM

186. hifiguy didn't side with the article in the OP, nor did I. The article is idiotic and flamebait. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #186)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:33 AM

187. no. what you men did was not support women, on idiotic flamebait, but giggled and pulled out

 

popcorn. ridiculed with your explosions and other mocking comments.... steven, supporter of feminism. oh well hell, feminist that wants the voice at the table.

you are correct. it was not even the point of supporting the article, but certainly supporting the gist of the poster that put up the OP

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #187)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:35 AM

188. That you would twist it that way is not unexpected, but no, that is not what happened. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #188)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:36 AM

189. look at the first handful of posts in this thread, at the gigglin and high five among you.

 

where is the fuckin' "twist"

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #189)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:43 AM

191. You've been a DU member long enough to see this with various topics. You should know better.

 

This is done with various kinds of flamebait and is a fairly standard DU practice.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #191)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:14 AM

195. i perfectly get whats going on having watched a while now. the posters involved. damn straight.

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #191)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:16 AM

196. each of the men, having claimed being feminist and want voice at table, sit back with popcorn amused

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #196)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:22 PM

209. Should I label obvious joking posts

 

"THIS IS A GODDAMN JOKE, JUST IN CASE ANY OF YOU DON'T/CAN'T REALIZE IT!!!" just so you get the point?

Jebus wept.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #209)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:56 PM

215. ya, right

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #215)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:04 PM

216. Tell me, what is it like to be omniscient and be able

 

to read the minds of everyone on DU and know exactly what each of us means at all times? It must be a unique experience. The instrument or calculation has not yet been devised that can measure the cosmic extent of your arrogance.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #216)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:06 PM

217. lets see. wtf are you talking about? if you do not know i am not tellin. giggle, giggle.

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #155)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:42 AM

190. Feminist bashing threads are hilarious and so entertaining.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #190)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:43 AM

192. See my #191. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #192)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:05 AM

193. See your post #6. This is no general topic popcorn thread and you know it. n/t

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Response to seaglass (Reply #193)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:07 AM

194. What about it? What I wrote was exactly right. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #194)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:29 AM

197. Just supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t

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Response to seaglass (Reply #197)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:43 AM

198. No, it doesn't. It does the opposite. It shows I thought it was flamebait. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #198)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:52 AM

199. *I* am supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t

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Response to seaglass (Reply #199)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:12 AM

200. +1 n/t

 

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Response to seaglass (Reply #199)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:08 PM

204. Pick a subject, no shortage of people who are wrong about it. I'll add you to the list on this one.

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #204)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:11 PM

205. list? THE list? do tell?

 

personally, i am clueless about THE list, but seems to be relevant to others.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #205)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:31 PM

206. It appears there is a list of who is right and who is wrong. :-) n/t

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Response to seaglass (Reply #206)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:58 PM

207. and if you do not know, they are not telling. ha ha ha ha. whatever. ;). nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #198)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:14 PM

208. The OP was total flamebait, which is why I wrote what I wrote at #1.

 

The reaction to obvious flamebait (posts about Nader, Olive Garden, fried chicken, moon bombing, HRC and this topic to name but a few) around here is as predictable as the sun rising in the east. Which was my point. Duh. This thread did not disappoint. Kittens were had, umbrage was taken, and silliness abounded all around. The very definition of flamebait. I expressed no opinion about it, but merely offered a brief, snarky comment on the flame war that was certain to follow (and did).

I am not saying the OP was or is a troll, but someone who is not a troll can troll. And this is a perfect example thereof.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:11 PM

2. :-)


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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:16 PM

4. It seems the assumption is that this will be controversial

It shouldn't be.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:18 PM

6. The term misandry is very controversial. Add that this comes from a male and you might as well

 

have mixed matter and anti-matter.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:28 PM

10. "I cannae do anything aboot it, Captain Kirk!

 

The engines are going to blow us halfway acrrross the galaxy!"

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:32 PM

11. Exactly. Eject the core immediately!!!!!!!1111!11!!! nt

 

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:21 PM

7. Exactly

 

There is no reason why DU cannot have a civil discussion about what was said in the article I posed. But then again, some people looking for drama will stoke the crowd and make drama happen.

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Response to seaglass (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:06 PM

21. What exactly is wrong with the post you linked to?

 

I said movement feminism should do some soul searching to figure out why the brand is so unpopular. Mind you, I am also a feminist if it still means one who fights for the equal rights for men and women. I would assume that I am closer to the authors brand of feminism than anything else.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:03 PM

42. You have determined it is not popular?

Amongst whom?

And that the discussion should worry first about men's feelings. And getting support from them, which they will withhold if we aren't giving them enough deference. You illustrate an issue right there.

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Response to treestar (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:09 PM

45. This was the reason for the whole

 

UN, Emma Watson speech. They are trying to re-brand feminism because the brand and not gender equality was unpopular

Poll: Few Identify As Feminists, But Most Believe In Equality Of Sexes

Only one-fifth of Americans identify as feminists, according to a new HuffPost/YouGov poll. But the vast majority fit the basic definition of the word.

According to the survey, just 20 percent of Americans -- including 23 percent of women and 16 percent of men -- consider themselves feminists. Another 8 percent consider themselves anti-feminists, while 63 percent said they are neither.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html

I know feminism seem to be very popular on DU but unfortunately, DU is not the real world where the brand is just as much favorable rating as congress.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #45)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:11 PM

47. Not really a fan of your calling it a "brand."

It is about equal rights for the majority.

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Response to treestar (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:36 PM

150. Thank you..

Maybe he thinks Civil Rights are a "brand" too.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #45)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:15 PM

49. you misrepresent emma watson.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #49)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:18 PM

52. You gonna have to tell me how

 

I am misrepresenting Emma Watson cos you saying it isn't helping.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #52)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:47 PM

158. Who gives a shit about Emma Watson?

What's her age, 20, 21?

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Response to treestar (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:58 PM

120. Unpopular with the crowd that is hell bent on constructing that "Feminazi" strawwomen

and beating on her day in and day out.

It is really quite silly.

If only women would stop making feminism about women and make it about men instead then men might join up.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:42 PM

67. Thanks for 'splaining it to us poor females.

n/t

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:30 PM

147. Who says it's "so unpopular"?..We know it's unpopular with guys like you..

but your suggestion that feminists "do some soul searching" because some

men are too insecure to deal with women as equals, is like asking Civil Rights

leaders to try and figure out why White Racists don't like their 'brand".



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Response to whathehell (Reply #147)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:39 PM

152. ah, voice of feminist from our very young women/girls is getting to a high pitch. scarying the shit

 

out of a lot of the men. you will find the men on du. the men on this thread. that like to constantly say, feminism is dead. far from it. it is louder than it has been in a couple decades and getting louder, world wide. that is the backlash. the fear. the losing grip.

they MUST take over, change the name, let men be the voice at the table... anything, to stop it

even rape.

Reddit Group Says Raping Women Is Morally Justifiable,Corrects Feminist Behavior.

"Rape served a very important function in mitigating female behavior and keeping it in check. Back in the time of prehistory, a woman couldn’t behave as shamelessly slutty as she can today, because of the risk of catching the eye of the wrong male. But now, with “consent” laws barring nature back, and feminism and sexual-liberation perverting whole generations of hearts and minds, we find ourselves in a situation gone way, way, too far.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/125551543

some of our boys and men are getting horribly desperate. even to the point of hysteria. i fear we may need the fainting couch.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_skGaPC7HKf4/SOqv_vlgJgI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/zahRhFUKbo4/s400/Blog+Fainting.jpg

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #152)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:41 PM

154. You got that right..

and WTF is with that Reddit thing?..I read more about it, and people have

asked Reddit to TAKE IT DOWN, for fuck's sake, but they haven't as of yet.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #147)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:13 AM

201. Excellent post. n/t

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #201)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:12 PM

218. Thank you very much.

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Response to seaglass (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:43 PM

156. I'm laughing at what out of control entitled this bullshit is. the completly ignorant offering

 

Last edited Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

leadership, HA HAHAH AHAH

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:54 PM

119. Which is why you posted it in the first place.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:22 PM

143. Just read your Op of last week, in which you said Feminism needed an "autopsy"

because it's "dead" or some such.

How about we do an "autopsy" on Male Privilege instead?

Misandry my ass..You're just resentful of feminism and it shows.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #143)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:28 PM

146. Ignorant and fearful of feminism- has no idea the history or practicalities...

 

yet can share lectures from college kids as if we can learn something new about feminism from them. HA.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #146)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:35 PM

149. Exactly...Wait til some of those college kids start living in the Real World

and get paid less for the same work done by a man, or get passed over for a promotion in favor of a less competent male, or get sexual harassed on the job.

Feminism is like Wisdom -- it tends to increase with age and experience.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #149)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:39 PM

151. grown ass DUers try to spitball Feminism all the time too. One I chatted with here did not believe

 

that women in the sixties did not have much in the way of reproductive choice at all. He didn't know that practically speaking, many American women still do not. Stop parroting ignorant people and do some research before you write an OP guys- it is embarrassing.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:16 PM

5. .

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)


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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:52 PM

14. I'm not all that comfortable with the term "misandry" myself, TBH.....

 

But this person undoubtedly makes quite a few good points.

Here's what I felt was perhaps the best part of the article(choice parts bolded):

Treating an accused perpetrator as innocent until he is found guilty can be an outgrowth of human decency, not rape culture. Similarly, the belief that men are guilty until proven innocent is misandry, not feminism. Keeping the two separate is important. Feminism is the struggle to reach equality for the sexes. It is not misandry, a bias against males. Sadly, many men forget this because misandrists never identify as such. They will tell you they are simply feminists.

Conflating feminism and misandry like this hurts women as much as it hurts men. Men suffer when misandry is codified, and women suffer by losing male support for the noble goals of feminism. We must remember that this is not a battle of the sexes. Men, remember that feminism means equality — not misandry. Women, remember that men are not an enemy entrenched in rape culture. For that matter, remember that rape culture does not exist as misandrists might imagine it. According to a 2002 study, 94 percent of men have never raped and will never rape anyone. We shun sexual assault with the same fervor as women do, for we are allies working toward the same goal.That goal can be realized only if we work together, and for more men to work with us, feminism must shed the misandrist beliefs that hide under its name.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:53 PM

15. "You got misandry in my feminism!" "You got feminism in my misandry!"

 

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 03:02 PM

16. Lol! You mean this misandry?



Keep trying!

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 03:34 PM

17. though we do take note of posting history, and those men in this thread to incite... nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:42 PM

116. The list?

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #116)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 11:59 PM

174. I haven't heard about

 

the "permanent record" since grade school. Discounting the NSA's datamining, that is.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #174)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:03 AM

175. Wtf are you talking about?

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #175)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:13 AM

177. If you can't figure it out

 

I am not going to tell you.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #177)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:36 AM

184. it simply does not make sense. making shit up, to play a silly game. then giggle.

 

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 03:35 PM

18. Trash thread.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:28 PM

26. Yup

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 04:50 PM

19. Oh, it's PRINCETON!

Shudda known...

go Bulldogs...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:12 PM

23. Years ago I encountered a hysterical poem about Princeton

 

but I cannot find it on the web. It was written in 1926 and appeared, where else, in the Harvard Lampoon; think it was reprinted in "If At All Possible Involve A Cow: A History of College Pranks." Further research indicates it is available, at least in part, here http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19261111&id=ZPNPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1VQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1430,3455660

As a Harvard (Law School) alumnus I naturally found it hilarious.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:27 PM

25. My first husband was a Harvard man...As the saying goes, you can always tell a Harvard man...

but you can't tell him much!

Harvard Law is great, IMO.

I live in the People's Republic of New Haven and my house is near the Yale Bowl so I will be attending the Princeton game, but Harvard-Yale is away this year...

Yale's got a decent team this year. Hoping for victory, at least for the Harvard game...



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Response to CTyankee (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:28 PM

63. Never lost a trial against a Harvard law grad.

 

7-0 against the whole ivy league.

I'm bragging but they make terrible trial lawyers. They never take the time to get to know the judges. And one guy never heard of Hegewisch.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #63)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:33 PM

81. don't be too eager to dismiss the Ivy League...they rule, you know...

hate to say this, but it is true...ya know, Bill and Hillary at Yale Law, Obama at Harvard Law, we'll see what's coming up but....



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Response to CTyankee (Reply #81)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:35 PM

83. oh, so true

 

But when you are putting twelve folks in the box, it helps to not think you are the savior of humanity.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #83)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:37 PM

84. and why is it that they think that way?

I just find that crazy...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #84)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:50 PM

91. They are very, very bright.

 

Being the smartest does not help you in front of a jury. In communicating to a jury you must communicate at about an 8th grade level.

Also, when an expert is testifying you must appear that you, as well as the jury, are learning something. It enhances the bond you have with the jurors. The I'm just a simple lawyer stuff is trite but it works to an extent. Also, I kinda yarddog the very bright ones pretrial by mispronouncing basic terms, lay on a thick accent and only talk about drinking beer and sports...make them underestimate you.

Kinda inside baseball but class warfare bought my house.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #91)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:56 PM

172. LOL ...

 

My best friend is really smart and charismatic and a "proud" high school drop out, convicted felon, that got his GED at age 26. He's now a union steward at his community college. He doesn't own a suit (well, he does but not that anyone would know) ... he wears sweat suits and a backwards baseball cap. He, too, mispronounces basic terms and stops proceedings to ask what "that big word means."

He regularly beats the hell out of the big boy lawyers because he lets them underestimate him. He would have made a great attorney ... but for that ABA screening process.



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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #172)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 11:07 PM

173. Your friend is the half dozen stewards/ business agents that keep me in business

 

They ask me how to do better in grievances but I can't . They know the job and they know their contract cold.

They walk them into deep water, and let the opponent drown. It works.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #173)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:07 AM

181. Yep ...

 

They walk them into deep water, and let the opponent drown.


All while imploring the really smart attorney guy to not make them look bad.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #81)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:51 PM

92. As much as I admire those you cite to ...

 

can you cite to a single case in which they tried, let alone, prevailed? I can't.

Litigators are a special breed!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #92)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:58 PM

95. Oh, I don't think they are, at all! I don't think that area of law would attract them

unless they were perhaps in the ACLU, fighting for the civil rights of people. I have known some and they are lovely and wonderful people....

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #63)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:48 PM

89. Could that be ...

 

because the Ivy league attorneys that are worth a crap ... are Clerking at the Federal Level or "white shoeing" it, where litigation is so passé?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #89)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:53 PM

93. yep! they know where the power in society lies and they aren't in it...

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #89)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:56 PM

94. They are all grinders, smart and very driven

 

Just bad trial lawyers, who tend to be drunks and demagogues. Lord knows I am.

Your point is well taken. They all think they should be federal judges or law faculty. It is one of the things wrong with the federal judiciary.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #94)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:42 PM

170. Way back when I was in Law School ...

 

the joke was: "What do you call 'A' law school students? Your Honor! What do you call 'C' law school students? ... Millionaire!"

I became neither.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #63)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:27 PM

210. I am not surprised. I've seen really good litigators

 

from a wide range of law schools. Success as a litigator takes an ability to strategize on the fly and a quick mind. Those things aren't necessarily measurable by the numbers you have to put up to get into an Ivy League school.

And the punch line to that joke as I heard it was "The A students become law professors, the B students become judges and the C students become millionaires."

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:02 PM

20. OK

Freshman male college student wants to define what is and isn't, or what should and shouldn't be, feminism. Fascinating.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:07 PM

22. More like he wants a voice at the table

 

without being called a rape apologist.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:34 PM

27. Men don't have a disproportionate voice at the table?

All my life that has been the case...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:53 PM

36. Men having

 

a disproportionate voice at the table is what gave us the problem in the first place and your solution will be to reverse the roles and hope somehow that fixes the problem? I dunno about you, but 2 wrongs does not make a right. We are in this together, the time of one uping each other is over.

Unity, solidarity, victory

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:32 PM

64. Women lead the women's movement

and will continue to. This movement was created because women didn't have a voice, and this movement IS women's voice. Men are still heard more than women in business, politics, religion, pretty much everything. Feminism is a movement for women in reponse to that. No, it isn't about you, and yes women owning and controlling this movement is the sollution.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:12 PM

131. Ever seem "Wizard of Oz?

 

Remember how the man made of straw needed a brain?

and your solution will be to reverse the roles and hope somehow that fixes the problem?


Said no one on this thread, except you.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:34 PM

28. No, he's just bullshitting

Misandry doesn't exist, and no one thinks men are guilty until proven innocent. It's all bullshit.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #28)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:29 PM

80. Misandry doesn't exist?

I hang out a lot on "Fundies Say". One of our top 100 is from a misandrist who proposes that all males should be castrated. Another memorable poster proclaimed that all PIV is rape. Rare? Absolutely. But you do your own cause no favours by pretending it doesn't exist.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #80)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:44 PM

157. Yes, probably, to some extant, but since it exists within the far less powerful,

it's hardly the threat that misogyny is.

I

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:38 PM

30. why? why does he want a voice at the table, when discussing womens issues?

 

i do not get it. why does he need a voice at the table?

i can see supporting women, backing women. but... a voice? that would suggest that men have a better handle or comparable handle on womens issues than women.

isnt that the very issue women have? that men have been the voice of all things women forever?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #30)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:47 PM

33. Maybe he

 

has a daughter, sister, mother, wife, female cousins and also knows that to solve the problem of attaining equal rights for all, his involvement will make for a better and quicker solution. Also remember the dictionary definition of feminism i.e. the fight for the equal rights for both men and women. How can you go about achieving that when you are asking why a man needs a sit at that table.

Or maybe your definition of feminism is different from the dictionary definition of feminism.

Ofc, one doesn't have to be related to a female to know that equal right for all is good. The same way one doesn't have to be black or minority to understand that equal rights for all races is a good thing. And groups like the NAACP gave whites a sit at the table and heavily depended on their activism to bring about the civil right act.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:00 PM

41. mans voice at the table is to redefine to a human issue and not a womans issue, correct?

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #41)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:16 PM

50. Woman's issue

 

is also a human's issue and so is a man's issue. This is another reason why the name feminism should be rethought. Its because when you think of it, the first thing that comes to mind is female. It betrays the dictionary definition of feminism just by a gendered name to it.

Its not really a sit, its more like a corner stool at the table.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #50)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:21 PM

53. Oh my God

OK so with that, tell me how this isn't about men wanting to redefine feminism. You don't want it to be about women, and you even want to change the name to reflect that. My God. It so isn't about you, and you don't get to make that decision. This is why women are afraid to have men have a seat at the table - they try to take over and redefine and neuter the whole movement. Men who can be at the table and sit and participate and support without taking over have always been welcome. Men who want to redefine and reallly end feminism (which is what redefining it to mean "women and men's rights" and changing the name to reflect that is) really aren't welcome, and aren't likely to be.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:22 PM

57. truly fuckin' in the face, fuckin' amazing, huh. lol. they want the voice at the table. all right

 

wowsers.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:23 PM

58. damn good thing he is a "feminist", lol.

 

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Response to gollygee (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:05 PM

71. +1000

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Response to gollygee (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:38 PM

86. I listened to Emma Watson's speech

 

and her definition of feminism is the one I am going by.

"For the record, feminism by definition is: 'The belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes,'"


And even you would have to agree that having such a gendered name and then asking men to join the movement because it is for both sexes can be very confusing. I am just suggesting that if the feminists at the UN are trying to rebrand feminism, they can start by changing the name. Its just my opinion and they don't have to listen to me.

Sorry but nobody is trying to take over anything. People just want to make sure that in an attempt to right a wrong, we don't make things unreasonably difficult for one side.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #86)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:14 PM

99. It has a gendered name for a reason

It is about the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities - AND THAT IT ISN'T CURRENTLY THE CASE. That women need more rights to make that happen, therefore it is a movement to fight for women's rights.

It is a gendered movement. Men who are confused about that don't belong in the movement. No one is trying to "rebrand feminism" to make it stop being feminism.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #99)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:18 PM

102. You may not have heard about it

 

But the heforshe campaign over at the UN is trying to do just that i.e. rebrand feminism to bring more guys into the movement. Look it up, its the top search for feminism on google

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #102)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:21 PM

105. That doesn't mean they're trying to rebrand it

Why don't you go to heforshe.org and take the pledge:

The HeForShe Commitment
Gender equality is not only a women’s issue, it is a human rights issue that requires my participation. I commit to take action against all forms of violence and discrimination faced by women and girls.
I agree


It's about discriminiation faced by women and girls. It's asking men to work for that human rights issue. It is not about rebranding feminism to make it not specifically about women and girls.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #105)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:35 PM

113. Thats the I see it

 

Quite frankly, I am not for meaningless online petition signing, hashtag activism and such. I live it in my daily life and that is the way I show my support.

Have you listened to the speech she gave during the inauguration of the campaign? in it they talked about issues facing women and men and that feminism was about righting those wrongs. The new and improved feminism is about everyone now, not just the female gender.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #113)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:38 PM

114. You misunderstood her

The way you see it is not the way it is. Feminism is a women's movement, always has been, and always will be, and Emma Watson said that as well. You heard what you wanted to hear, and not what was said.

You have some serious work to do if you want to be a part of the feminism movement. I suggest a good place to start might be googling "feminism 101."

Good luck.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #113)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:11 PM

129. You are not for online petititions

yet you love to go ong and on about "dictionary definitions" as if one fucking sentence has fuck all to do with such a complex issue and movement.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #113)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:11 PM

130. You are most assuredly wrong

Feminism is still very much about women.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #86)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:08 PM

126. Same garbage

that the "reverse racism" and "christian persecution" liars put forth.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #50)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:21 PM

54. so again, you reiterate a bit more forcefully, women should not be the heart of feminism. it is a

 

human issue. zillions of years of oppressions. laws restricting women. even today.

and it should not be about women, but humans.

kinda, as a part of the voice of feminism, just took feminism out of the hands of women. you think?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #54)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:11 PM

72. The question is...is the core of feminism really about equality?

 

Like this report out of the UK that men who have prostate cancer get "second-rate NHS care" compared to women who have breast cancer.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2775901/Prostate-patients-second-rate-NHS-care-Report-says-sufferers-far-likely-receive-latest-drugs-looked-specialist-nurses.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Even in this country you had feminists that successfully got extra perks for women in Obamacare.

I'm not quite sure how this supports the idea of "gender equality." It appears to be more about advocating for more perks for women and intentionally writing men out.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:21 PM

74. advocating for perks. ya david. i get where you are on the feminsit issue

 

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:15 PM

100. Women did not get "extra perks"

and you thinking that is a good example of why feminism is still needed.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:53 PM

118. Evidence based care is not a perk.

Women get care based on evidence. Men get care based on evidence. Some care for men (certain prostate screening) was removed from coverage because it was shown to be of no benefit, and other prostate screenings were more effective for routine use. Women's care and screening gets adjusted as needed (for example, the frequency of pap screenings was recently reduced for some women, and the initial age and subsequent frequency of mammography so often a lot of women have no idea when they're supposed to start) for similar reasons.

This is not a perk. This is better science and more data resulting in better care.

Anybody arguing otherwise is presenting misinformation, either for ideological reasons or because they do not understand the underlying medical reasoning.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:10 PM

127. Surgical instruments, medications and procedures- all designed for men. Too big, too much for women

 

You had NO idea about any of this? Okay...

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:13 PM

133. Have you done a single thing in health care advocacy for men? Or is this fake concern?

 

Because we all know you guys get a raw deal because men habitually delay or refuse to see doctors. And then they complain women "get" more here, LOL.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:14 PM

134. What a load of tosh

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:51 PM

161. Oh please...Men, not women, are routinely used as subjects in disease studies, and

women have been getting "second rate care" relative to men for ages, especially when it

comes to things like Heart Disease.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #50)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:24 PM

106. HA HA HA HA HA HA. You admitted you want to completely dismantle feminism a little too quickly, LOL

 

most people who spew this crap pretend to be supportive for a while longer, LOL.
Nice to see you again

The seat in the corner- best idea you have had on this thread- go for it!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #106)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:28 PM

110. Yea, because you have to fly under

 

the feminist banner to believe in equal rights for women. Ofc, anything other than that and you want to dismantle the idea of feminism. I want to give it a facelift and take it into the 21st century. The genders are now allies and not adversaries, it time for the name to reflect that.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #110)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:34 PM

112. Nonsense- you are here arguing that the laws and "protections" in place are enough in the USA, LOL-

 

and that betrays some seriously deep ignorance on the subject. Sorry- no seat at our table for you, not even in the corner.

I do believe you're just trying to toss a wrench in the works- and it's so very transparent it's actually funny. No one who is seriously interested in equality for women is buying what you are selling. As radical and faux helpful as you might actually think you appear? Well, you actually aren't either, LOL.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #112)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:41 PM

115. I guess this is the end of the line

 

I just hope you take some thing out of the article in the OP. This is not a wind up cos I truly believe the movement should adopt a new and softer approach towards men and give some men(maybe not me) a sit at the table.

Its time for me hit the books. I hope nobody alerts me cos I think I have been very civil in my discussion in this thread.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #115)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:01 PM

122. hopefully, you will do some research about how "well" the Ledbetter act is working out for us...

 

and when you do that, we can give you some more assignments. Like the college freshman who wrote that piece, you both have a LOT of learning to do before you can speak to feminists from an informed POV. That would be awesome.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #115)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:32 PM

212. The linked article made a couple of valid points

 

particularly with regard to the presumption of innocence that should apply in all criminal cases. There was a lot of BS to wade through to get to that point and the comments made me want to don a hazmat suit.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #110)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:17 PM

138. Pray tell, do tell us the new name

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #41)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:49 PM

159. A "place at the table", my ass..Men practically OWN the fucking table.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:13 PM

48. Feminism

is about equal rights with an understanding that, in order to achieve that, we have to promote women's rights. The "fem" at the beginning makes it clear that it's about fighting for women's rights.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #30)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:22 PM

56. I wonder if the author of the article is enjoying the disgusting comments it is getting.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #56)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:25 PM

60. sure. as telling as the men above with their popcorn to giggle over another man telling us

 

how us feminists are simply being unfair to men, cause we address womens issues. you know. the very men that call themselves feminists. as they tell us feminists we are not real feminists. and what our concerns should be. how we should think. what issues we should discuss, and how we discuss. and do not forget tone.

yada yada yada

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:18 PM

103. +1

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:25 PM

24. Men who do not rape have often said . .

That it isn't their problem. What is this about their wanting a voice in the discussion now?

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Response to Brigid (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:37 PM

29. I'd be interested in hearing the answer to this, too...

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Response to Brigid (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:49 PM

34. Maybe Emma Watson's

 

call to action at the UN has something to do with it. You want to involve men with feminism but you insist they sit quietly at the corner and not voice their opinion.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:55 PM

37. Let men voice their opnion . . .

By putting pressure on other men not to rape. After 56 years of mansplaining and "tips to avoid rape," I'm out of patience.I've got socks older than this Princeton guy. And how many times have women been told to sit in the corner and shut up? See my sig for further details.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:57 PM

38. They could listen a bit before they start telling us

what's what.

I mean that's the idea. They think their ideas are much more important than the women's - this is built into our society.

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Response to treestar (Reply #38)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:04 PM

43. Did you even read the article?

 

He listened and then tried to voice his concerns about a law that might screw innocent men. This is the time to speak up and that is exactly what he did. Some people are still fighting the injustices committed by men long dead, those people should realize that most people alive today are on their side, and they want to be treated fairly and their opinions considered when crafting laws that will affect them.


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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #43)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:10 PM

46. Poor poor men

Thousands of years of laws (or way of looking at the laws) that screwed innocent women, and now we have to worry about the poor men maybe not being able to get away with it.

These laws are not supposed to "screw innocent men" and a supporter of feminism would not see that as their purpose.

IOW, we are to worry about the poor men first, not thousands of years of oppression of women. Make a little progress on that, and we are to listen to the men say how unfair it is to them. After all they deserve equally to be heard, right? And it's not equal if they don't get to talk 50% of the time.

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Response to treestar (Reply #46)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:22 PM

55. Stop living in the past

 

It sucks but some men refused to be punished because of the sins of their fathers. They insist on fighting for a justice system that would give them the presumption on innocence when accused of a heinous crime like rape. Its time for the pendulum of justice to stop swinging side to side.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #55)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:28 PM

62. as a fembro, educate yourself and clue in, so you can at least carry a conversation.

 




this is not a yesterday issue

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #62)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:53 PM

68. Sorry, but I truly find it hard to believe those numbers

 

I have heard the numbers are high and I truly feel for all those women who could not get justice from the justice system. But at the same time, its no reason to set up a system that puts men at a disadvantage from the get go.

Another thing most people do not understand is that, men are very disgusted by rapists, even lowlifes think of rapists are scum. Add to that anyone with a sister, daughter, mother is likely not going to spare anyone they think committed a rape. Add again to it the pressure on police and DA's to fill the prison system with inmates just confuses me why this number is so high. The police and the justice system want nothing more than you screw you and lock you up for life, they ain't going to let some rapist off so easily



This is just one of the many videos of what happens when someone is falsely accused of rape which somehow is missing from your graphic like its something that never ever happens. But apart from the torment they get from other inmates, their lives is never the same even after they are exonerated

To me
"Is It Better That Ten Guilty Persons Go Free Than That One Innocent Person Be Convicted?"

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #68)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:54 PM

69. Many, many, many more than 10 guilty people go free

for every innocent person convicted. Way more than 10.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #68)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:02 PM

70. if this is your voice at the table? you are nothing but a hindrance and we do not have time for

 

that.

you do not bother putting in the time ot educate yourself. you want to dismiss facts. ignore what you are given and you want us to listen? no.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #70)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:14 PM

73. Don't confuse statistics

 

with facts. Also, I would assume that the number you showed me were talking about rape accusations which the compiler assumed were true. Which means accusation like the Duke lacrosse case was probably part of the 40 that got arrested. You got to show me real numbers from law enforcement websites and stuff for me to believe those unbelievable high numbers.

It sucks but we know how easily statistics can be manipulated to say whatever we want.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #73)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:23 PM

77. if you actually put forth the effort to educate yourself on issues you want a voice at the table,

 

Last edited Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)

you would recognize i do not confuse statistics with facts.

and no. i am not here to educate you. you go educate yourself. there are plenty of source. i dont gotta do a damn thing

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #77)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:49 PM

90. Show me their data source

 

or a link to the website so I can do my own investigation. I look at the world we live in and even as how fucked up it is, I just cannot believe 3 out of 100 rapists get jail time.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #90)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:08 PM

125. Oh dear, you have no idea how few reports are even taken, let alone result in an arrest.

 

Read up, it is very sad.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #77)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:06 PM

124. THIS. And if he realized how much of a constant thing this is-

 

dudes who are barely aware of our history telling us what we have been doing wrong, LOL....
Then he might be a tad embarrassed.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #68)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:23 PM

144. Even lowlifes eh? Nice

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #68)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:27 PM

211. Seems to be human nature to consciously disbelieve that which invalidates our biases.

"but I truly find it hard to believe those numbers..."

Seems to be human nature to consciously disbelieve that which invalidates our biases.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #55)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:50 PM

117. The past, where men could claim they had consent

and be belived automatically?

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #55)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:22 PM

142. swinging side to side?

It has barely budged from the one side since the dawn of mankind.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #43)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:17 PM

51. And if he brought up the thoroughly debunked Kanin study (as he did in the article), then

the women in attendance were right to view him as ignorant.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #51)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:25 PM

59. Didn't he call it

"Peer reviewed" and go on a bit about how valid it is? I figured out what was up when I saw that.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #59)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:23 PM

76. Why yes, yes he did!

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:20 PM

140. How much of a voice?

How much of a voice should whites have in black organizations?

How much of a voice should non Jews have in Jewish groups?

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:53 PM

162. She can voice her opinion..

but that doesn't compel anyone to listen to her.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:59 PM

96. Which men?

By name please. And precisely when did they that? And in what context?

Or is this like one of those Fox News generalized "some people say" sort of shotgun statements?

Just askin'.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:25 PM

108. Yup- "it wasn't me" isn't helping. Never did.

 

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:46 PM

32. Misandry? I am taking misandry so seriously since it is sooo prevalent.

 

Misandry, misandry, tastes like candy
Put it in a big bowl, it's just fine and dandy
Girls rule, boys drool, they taught me that in school,
Misandry, misandry, Kiss my big fat fanny!


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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:36 PM

66. Hahhahah!!!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:34 PM

82. It's rare but it does exist

I hang out on "Fundies Say" a lot and every so often, we get an outright misandrist post submitted.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:59 PM

39. Bullshit.

If someone violates the code of conduct at a university (and that included allegations), just suspend them until the case is heard in court.

The rest of this is fucking bullshit. Feminist my ass.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:59 PM

40. I remember saying something similar

as a white person about race, and getting slapped down for it, rightfully so.

"men feel marginalized" - hey that's actually an education for them if they really feel that way. Maybe that'll help them get it. They are used to being in charge and feel bad they aren't, but then that's the whole point here.

It's like white people who don't want to be called racists - hard to complain about that, or it's too minor a complaint to consider in comparison with people who are the ones oppressed by racism.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:07 PM

44. I've copied/pasted a comment under that article:

 

It's typical of the other, many, very hostile comments that follow the article. I assume they are written by Princeton students. So much for the younger generation casting off the myths & prejudices of earlier times!—


"FrillArtist • 4 hours ago
Biggest load of rubbish I have ever read. The basis of feminism is male hatred at its finest. Over and over again, we see that feminists will seek to stir up hatred towards men on the basis of any statistical differences (mostly imagined) that might be found between men and women, .

For example, if more men are found working in a bar than women, the feminists will argue that there is a 'glass ceiling' that prevents women from taking up this job, but if there are more women than men working in it, then they will argue that the pay is too low compared to other more male-dominated jobs.

Either way, they will stir up hatred towards men.

These men-hating feminists will always attempt to stir up male hatred whatever the situation. It does not matter who gets paid more, these so called "women" will use any differences to stir up hatred towards men.

Feminists will always twist the evidence and the facts to demonise men. And they will do this, basically, for two reasons:

Firstly, most of the leading feminists are severely dysfunctional 'women'. And, in many cases, it is quite clear from their past histories and their rhetoric that they positively hate men - in some cases, perhaps with some justification as a result of experience.

Secondly, there are now, literally, billions of dollars, numerous empires, and millions of government jobs that depend on the public swallowing the idea that women need to be defended from men in some way or other. And the feminists (together with many others) can only maintain these luxuries by continually stirring up hatred toward - and a fear of - men.

However, I don't hate these feminists. I actually feel bad for them because they are simply operating based on their primal biological inhibitions. Woman, by it's very nature, is driven to seek drama. It is what they live for. What they thrive for. It should come as no surprise to any man that male hatred is the very basis of feminism."

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:28 PM

61. Well....

... this should light up the Bat signal.



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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:34 PM

65. Not all feminists

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #65)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:37 PM

85. Very few in fact

But pretending the misandrist outliers don't exist doesn't help anyone.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #85)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:30 PM

148. Is all of Christianity defined by Phelps?

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #148)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:41 PM

153. Of course not

but denying he and the damage he does exists doesn't help the case of Christianity. In the same way, denying the few misandrists and the damage they cause doesn't help the cause of feminism. If we genuinely want to treat all people equally, then we have to accept that there are a few nutters in both genders. To deny that women are capable of prejudice, hatred or callousness, the frequent claim that "if women ruled, there would never be a war", is just as sexist as claiming that all women are inferior. It may be sexism in a flattering direction but it is still not treating all equally, it's simply reversing which gender is treated more favorably.

Necessary caveat: Please note that I am categorically not saying the misandrists are anything more than a tiny, if irritatingly loud, fraction of modern feminism.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #153)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:50 PM

160. what damage does this unknown person discussing the two issues of yours does? how is it in any way

 

effecting anything in rl?

you have two individuals that said something extreme. and that damages feminism? two unknown people no one here knows anything about. that you read on some board. and all of feminism must take ownership of it?

hey... the supposed palins who claim to be feminists cause more damage in the real world

the men that claim to be feminists but do nothing but disrupt the discussion and are destructive to the movement cause more damage to feminism.

the couple people you mentioned?

where is this supposed damage?

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:24 PM

78. LOL, like saying keep reverse racism out of civil rights. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #78)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:26 PM

79. and all the same ole men, that demand they are taken seriously, gigglin with their popcorn.

 

are the ones that want women to take a back seat to their brand of feminism. that is not really feminism. humanism, lets change the whole damn name, redefine, and allow the men to lead and fix it.

this is a fuckin joke.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #78)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:43 PM

88. How exactly is that funny

 

Do you think we should be racist to white people to right the wrongs of their forefathers? Maybe fix the law in such a way to make it easier to convict a white person for alleged crimes against me just on the count that I am black. Why stop there, why not increase the sentence for crimes against me by a white person.

Racism against anyone, black, white, brown, yellow or whatever is wrong and we should all be against it.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #88)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:08 PM

98. It's ridiculous because there's no institutional racism against whites

 

or institutional misandry, and people who bring either of those up are just trying to further victimize minorities and feminists.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #98)


Response to Post removed (Reply #101)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:20 PM

104. ...and a long, long history of treating black people like property.

 

And given how women are still paid less than men, have to deal with slut-shaming, don't get rape cases treated seriously, and have only their bodies regulated, yes, there absolutely is institutional misogyny.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #104)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:24 PM

107. I wanna hear about those institutions that have

 

misogynist policies towards women. I hope we are talking about US and not some middle east countries. Cos last I've heard, we have laws against wage discrimination, laws against rapes etc etc.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #107)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:27 PM

109. Oh wow- you have a lot of reading to do about this subject before we allow you in the room, let

 

alone that seat in the corner you have been eyeballing. Seriously, dilettantes need not apply. The thoughts off the top of your head- not valuable, actually.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #88)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:28 PM

166. misandry is not a serious problem. It's not even a problem at all.

 

it's a talking point for anti-feminists.

Also, anyone who writes this kind of nonsense:

Lastly for anyone who thinks gamers are just paranoid about the feminist influence infiltrating their gaming community, you just have to watch this clip below. These gaming communities are just about the only place left for guys to be guys and you bet some guys are worried when they see these people who are not really part of their community trying to change things.


completely lacks standing to complain about feminists not including him and his fellow travelers.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #166)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:30 PM

167. so. this would be the man that feels he needs a voice at the table. women, stfu and lets us boys

 

play our games without having to consider our misogyny???? i mean. really?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #167)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:32 PM

169. you can't make this shit up nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #167)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:21 AM

202. Seem like de ja vous?

 

Some guys have binders full of socks around here.

Just sayin....



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Response to JTFrog (Reply #202)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:26 AM

203. more than mere de ja vous. but there have been so many, i cannot pull it out...

 

somebody mentioned a video that was put up. more like that. vague. but, ya... by here. certainly.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 07:40 PM

87. I wonder ...

 

does the OP writer share the same concern that the “preponderance of the evidence” standard has/will increase the likelihood of false civil judgments?

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:03 PM

97. Seems the doctor is practicing bad medicine.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:32 PM

111. "Hey ladies, an Ivy League manchild needs to explain feminism to you." Thanks, no.

Oh god, just for laughs I googled the little shit and he looks EXACTLY how I pictured him. This is NOT A COMPLIMENT.

http://about.me/newby

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #111)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 08:59 PM

121. I wonder if this is that same kid who posted the " humanism i/o feminism" video here a while back...

 

Poor kid thought he was the first to think of that too. LOL.
*patting them on their fluffy little heads*

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #121)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:02 PM

123. I thought I recognized him from this video:

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #111)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:13 PM

132. If a man were to judge a woman like that based on looks, you'd be upset at the misogyny. nt

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #132)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:16 PM

135. I'm judging him based on his unexamined class privilege. Which was clear from my further comment.

Read first, then reply.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #135)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:17 PM

136. "...he looks EXACTLY how I pictured him. This is NOT A COMPLIMENT." nt

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #136)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:18 PM

139. He looks like a spoiled Ivy League date rapist. nt

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #139)


Response to Electric Monk (Reply #132)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:17 PM

137. I think you mean ageism- but since they have so little experience in the real world, I don't think

 

it;s fair to call it ageism either. Kid has got a LOT to learn. So does the OP, he admits it here in this thread.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #137)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:20 PM

141. EM is trying really hard to find a reason why men on DU are oppressed.

If that can't work then apparently the oppression of Princeton undergrads (so wealthy and oppressed!) is an acceptable stand-in.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #141)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:26 PM

145. Teenagers who are slapped down because they are uniformed of what they speak? A good thing!

 

Same as he DUers here, they really should know better to lecture experienced people- when they have none, and are fucking winging it.
Jeeze.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #111)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:26 AM

182. Thread Over

There can't be a better comment in this thread than LeftyMom's. Young kid who think he has everything figured out. Generally the marker of an opinion worth ignoring.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 09:10 PM

128. I'm copy-pasting the OP here for archival purposes

 

in case they self-delete the OP to lock the thread, now that they're blocked from posting in it anymore for having a post hidden.

jamzrockz (475 posts)

Keep misandry out of feminism [View all]
By Newby Parton • Contributing Columnist • October 1, 2014

I am a feminist, so the first words I spoke at a recent town hall meeting on the new sexual assault procedures were in praise of the University’s speedy response to the new Title IX regulations. Victims of sexual assault will now have a clearer understanding of their options. They can be advised by outside counsel at meetings. Professional investigator-judges have replaced student judges, so victims can step forward without embarrassment. Our compliance marks a huge victory for women on campus, and we’re all better off as a result.

I voiced a single worry at the town hall meeting: that the new “preponderance of the evidence” standard will, definitionally, increase the likelihood of false convictions. Unknowingly, I had struck a hole into a dam. Cries of “rape culture” spewed forth

snip

But this is an important conversation, and all ideas should be heard. A few women have turned the dialogue into a battle against men and women, and in doing so I fear that they will turn men away from feminism. Men feel marginalized when our worries about a real, higher risk of wrongful suspension are disregarded. Attributing these worries to rape culture only distances us further because we begin to think that this is what feminism has become — a bias against males that mistakes all male viewpoints for oppression.

Treating an accused perpetrator as innocent until he is found guilty can be an outgrowth of human decency, not rape culture. Similarly, the belief that men are guilty until proven innocent is misandry, not feminism. Keeping the two separate is important. Feminism is the struggle to reach equality for the sexes. It is not misandry, a bias against males. Sadly, many men forget this because misandrists never identify as such. They will tell you they are simply feminists.

http://dailyprincetonian.com/opinion/2014/10/keep-misandry-out-of-feminism/

Just an article I read and really enjoyed that shows a different side of feminism. The kind of feminism that can recapture the imagination of the general public.

Read, comment and Enjoy.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:07 PM

164. Why no comments on this thread from the elusive misandrists, where are they?

Are they shy? If they exist, why is there never evidence except for "My uncle's friend's cousin's fishing buddy's wife has a cousin who met a logger who saw one once." Like the Sasquatch. But I suppose that's beside the point. They don't need to exist. No need to put real worms on the hook when you have fake bait, whatever they're called, I don't care for fishing.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #164)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:20 PM

165. i dunno. the first ten posts are men gathering around to giggle among themselves. waz up

 

with that, when talking about the dreaded misandry

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #165)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:31 PM

168. The funniest thing is that they are completely defeated in these discussions

but they don't even know it. It would be more interesting talking to a Sasquatch. At least it would say something new.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 10:52 PM

171. I am a woman. I have experienced sexual assault repeatedly. My perpetrators have not been held

accountable. I have been blamed for being raped. I have been shunned by the community for being raped. I have been told I wanted it. I have been called numerous vile names. I have been called a liar for telling. I have been expected to "put out" since I was raped, because I was raped. I have been sexually assaulted by family, by strangers and each time I was told it was my fault.

This okayness with rape has to stop! Rape itself has to stop. Rape is a theft of a human life.

Men, if you don't force yourself on women then stand up for us, too many of you remain silent!

Males, who force yourselves on women, get a grip on yourselves, learn real self control, learn that if you are not welcome then you can't have it! Women are not possessions for you to take at will!

Women, for goodness sakes, stick up for your sisters! Too many of you jump on the victim-blaming victim-shaming bandwagon.

We, who have lived through these traumatic experiences are damaged, stunned, afraid, angry, saddened. It takes us much compassion and a long time to heal from these deep psychic gouges.

We all have the right to be innocent until proven guilty, that is the american tradition. But we also have the right to be safe in our persons. We are equal, that we are not equal is an illusion. No one person has the right to take anything from another.

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #171)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:35 PM

213. Very wise words.

 

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #213)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:40 PM

214. Thank you. The words came from experience. Hard lessons.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:25 AM

178. If I understand right, this post was basically about how the "presumption of innocence",

while normally considered a good thing in our society, is called out by some as a product of the "rape culture" when it comes to that particular crime. I found it odd (no, honestly I didn't really find it odd) that lots of people have something to say about misogyny and misandry but no one seems to want to address the particular issue you mention in the post.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 12:52 AM

179. The guy is right.

Universities investigating sexual assault is idiotic. It should be handled by a police dept. not connected to the University. By allowing the University to set the rules it allows a vested interest to interfere with justice. It is especially horrendous when they allow students to be the adjudicators.

What the author is describing is institutionalized prejudice. In most circumstances, this is considered to be the worst kind of offense when it comes to social justice. The "preponderance of the evidence" standard almost ensures that innocent people will be falsely convicted of rapes they did not commit. And, since the majority of people accused of rape are men, it means that most of these innocent people will be men. This should cause anyone pause, but for some reason more and more universities are pushing ahead with it.

When the rights of the accused and innocence until proven guilty are discounted because the accused is a man, it is without a doubt misandry. Sadly, I'm not surprised people on DU disagree.

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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:37 AM

180. America's founders were simply mistaken

 

"Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" is absurd. "Preponderance of the evidence" is obviously the way to roll.

Clearly, this Newby guy should be mocked.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #180)

Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:53 PM

219. At least you avoided saying "founding fathers" before trying to put feminists in their place,

 

These aren't criminal proceedings, so yes he should be mocked.



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Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:26 AM

183. Yes!!!!!! DU has a new "feminist" here to explain things to us.

 

Your short history here and the link above to one of your previous comments makes it clear you are not here to debate in good faith. Let me guess, you are a dude.

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