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Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:29 PM

Dominant Male Atheist Leaders Seem to Have a Problem with Women

Many of the most prominent leaders of New Atheism are quick to express sexist ideas.

http://www.alternet.org/belief/dominant-male-atheist-leaders-seem-have-problem-women

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Reply Dominant Male Atheist Leaders Seem to Have a Problem with Women (Original post)
LexVegas Oct 2014 OP
brooklynite Oct 2014 #1
tridim Oct 2014 #5
trotsky Oct 2014 #9
LanternWaste Oct 2014 #38
hifiguy Oct 2014 #41
Initech Oct 2014 #11
Warpy Oct 2014 #24
JHB Oct 2014 #33
Orrex Oct 2014 #39
edgineered Oct 2014 #42
JHB Oct 2014 #87
elleng Oct 2014 #60
MohRokTah Oct 2014 #2
sharp_stick Oct 2014 #3
madokie Oct 2014 #47
LittleBlue Oct 2014 #4
whatthehey Oct 2014 #6
immoderate Oct 2014 #7
temporary311 Oct 2014 #8
NCTraveler Oct 2014 #10
Yavin4 Oct 2014 #12
Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2014 #13
BillZBubb Oct 2014 #14
cyberswede Oct 2014 #21
edhopper Oct 2014 #15
gollygee Oct 2014 #16
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #19
liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #25
edgineered Oct 2014 #26
snooper2 Oct 2014 #28
Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #34
Orrex Oct 2014 #40
Marr Oct 2014 #78
Hosnon Oct 2014 #82
edgineered Oct 2014 #17
Iggo Oct 2014 #18
edgineered Oct 2014 #20
Warpy Oct 2014 #22
Feral Child Oct 2014 #23
The2ndWheel Oct 2014 #27
Feral Child Oct 2014 #29
The2ndWheel Oct 2014 #37
Feral Child Oct 2014 #46
mr blur Oct 2014 #30
procon Oct 2014 #59
seabeyond Oct 2014 #31
tkmorris Oct 2014 #36
YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #48
Orrex Oct 2014 #58
Feral Child Oct 2014 #52
seabeyond Oct 2014 #55
Feral Child Oct 2014 #62
seabeyond Oct 2014 #64
chrisa Oct 2014 #32
alp227 Oct 2014 #74
seabeyond Oct 2014 #75
Marrah_G Oct 2014 #35
Orrex Oct 2014 #49
Marrah_G Oct 2014 #51
Dr. Strange Oct 2014 #66
Yavin4 Oct 2014 #68
JHB Oct 2014 #90
arcane1 Oct 2014 #79
seabeyond Oct 2014 #43
yortsed snacilbuper Oct 2014 #44
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #83
hifiguy Oct 2014 #91
Rex Oct 2014 #45
YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #50
Orrex Oct 2014 #53
Logical Oct 2014 #54
seabeyond Oct 2014 #56
LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #86
bravenak Oct 2014 #57
edgineered Oct 2014 #61
bravenak Oct 2014 #67
edgineered Oct 2014 #69
bravenak Oct 2014 #76
edgineered Oct 2014 #84
LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #63
procon Oct 2014 #65
alarimer Oct 2014 #70
seabeyond Oct 2014 #71
alarimer Oct 2014 #85
seabeyond Oct 2014 #88
peace13 Oct 2014 #72
yortsed snacilbuper Oct 2014 #73
Marr Oct 2014 #77
valerief Oct 2014 #80
Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #81
juxtaposed Oct 2014 #89
eShirl Oct 2014 #92

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:32 PM

1. We have leaders?

 

Did I miss a memo?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:39 PM

5. My first reaction as well. I do not want or need a leader to follow.

Nobody speaks for me, my atheism is my own business.

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Response to tridim (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:53 PM

9. Many religious minds can't picture atheism as anything BUT a competing "religion."

We see this on the right wing a lot, but unfortunately there are more than a few Democrats that cling to the notion as well.

Thus atheism, has "leaders" and "dogma" and all that jazz.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:19 PM

38. Heck, some people even believe that white is a color...

Heck, some people even believe that white is a color...

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Response to trotsky (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:43 PM

41. Yep. There are "prominent" atheists

 

who are publicly outspoken, but the idea of "atheist leaders" bounces off the brain at a strange angle.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:56 PM

11. Did you get the memo? I didn't.


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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:27 PM

24. Apparently we also have dogma and a Pope

who happens to be any uppity atheist who has written the most recent book on the subject.

Atheist bashers are disappointingly unoriginal.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:03 PM

33. We have memos?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:25 PM

39. They were handed out at the meeting

Wait. We had a meeting?

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Response to Orrex (Reply #39)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:57 PM

42. Yes, we had a meeting

It was a meeting of the minds.
Everyone made a mental note.
Some came by proxy.
No one was there in spirit.

Remember?

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Response to edgineered (Reply #42)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:04 PM

87. Apparently it had faith-based meeting minutes, and I disbelived them

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:43 PM

60. Heck, I wouldn't READ a 'memo.'

By definition 'we're' NOT organized!

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:35 PM

2. I've followed some pretty outspoken atheists on Youtube for some time.

 

AronRa is cool.

I was amazed watching Thunderf00t become a raging misogynist, though. Never would have thought it of him.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:37 PM

3. One of the nice things about being an atheist

none of these pricks leads me. In fact the idea that atheism needs leaders is pretty much opposite to the idea of atheism to begin with. Why would the denial of existence of something need some douchebag to be a leader.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:16 PM

47. I don't believe in any of it

so I'm not even sure I can be called an atheist. They'll be no difference between my death and the death of a bug that hits the windshield, I truly believe that.

Had a friend who died from cancer and he said if there was anything out there he'd send me a signal. Been years and I still haven't got anything LOL

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:37 PM

4. Are these like cardinals?

 

Archbishops?

As an atheist, I recognize no leader and no movement. Those in the OP represent small groups who organize like theists, sell their books and pretend to represent us when they don't. Most of them seem like they're trying to make a buck from it. Sound familiar?

The words "atheist leaders" should never, ever be in a headline because we have none.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:43 PM

6. Leaders?

American Atheists is the major organization which actually has leaders, (people actually elected and chosen to you know, lead, as opposed to people who give talks about atheism.)

Founded by a woman, it has had female leaders for 45 of its 51 years. Neither male leader is mentioned in this predictable hit piece.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:45 PM

7. Some men have problems with women. Atheists are not excluded.

 

Being an atheist does not imply enlightenment about women's rights. Sorry about that.

--imm


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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:52 PM

8. I always thought

that one of the perks of being an atheist was that we didn't have any leaders or Popes or Caliphs or Grand Poobahs. Certainly nobody that we have to twist ourselves into apologetic pretzels over whenever they say or do something stupid. That and sleeping in on Sundays.

Still, it's sad that while some folks are able to shake off the superstitious/supernatural aspects of religion, they can't shake off some of the cultural stuff like the ingrained misogyny.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:53 PM

10. So do some DUers. What's your point?

 

Why would anyone think Atheists are above the fray. Makes no sense. They can be ignorant jackasses just like everyone else. Why would Atheists be any different? Atheists, just like other groups, have the best of the best and the worst of the worst. Some even use their lack of belief in religion to do some pretty brutal things. Some take that understanding to do beautiful things.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:58 PM

12. Atheism is a rejection of a theism. It's not a group or organization.

So, how can it have leaders?

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 01:59 PM

13. Well, imagine that. Whoda thunk it.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:02 PM

14. Too funny! Atheist leaders!!!!

Where do people come up with crap like this?

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:19 PM

21. I preside over all the non-stamp-collectors in my area.

they just don't know it.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:05 PM

15. Do the Submissive

Male Atheist Leaders have a problem as well.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:06 PM

16. "Some prominent athiests"

Would have been a better headline, to keep people steering off into the "athiests don't have leaders" lane.

Yes, athiests don't have leaders. But it's still worth noting that religion isn't what causes misogyny - athiests can hold these views too, and some prominent (though I think that just means LOUD in this case) athiests do.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:18 PM

19. It could be argued...

 

That these people, while not religious themselves, grow up and live in a world that is still strongly, strongly shaped and informed by outlooks and opinions derived from religious bases. Absolutely they should know better, but like racism, this shit gets hammered into the head constantly, from your first day in the world.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:28 PM

25. well of course religion isn't the cause of misogyny. It's just a tool that has been used by

many over the centuries to gain power and money by means of misogyny, racism, fear, anger, and hatred. There are millions of quiet, kind hearted, peaceful religious people all over the world. The reason we don't hear from them is because they are not the ones trying to gain power. Religion is just one tool that people use to gain power. There are many tools in which to instill fear and hatred into people to acquire power. I am not going to comment on the OP. It's an inflammatory post and the poster only has a few posts under their belt. Enough said.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #25)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:36 PM

26. Not so sure about the infallatory part, there seems to be agreement here.

As for the poster only having a few posts, I salute him or her with a rec.

edit him // him or her. sorry

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Response to gollygee (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:43 PM

28. It's Alternet LOL,

 

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Response to gollygee (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:03 PM

34. Yes, as always, it becomes a quibble about a single word, rather than a consideration of

the overall picture. No better way to derail!

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:39 PM

40. What exactly is the overall picture, in this context?

Since there's no "overall group" of atheists, the article is dishonestly creating the impression of a godless organization of he-man-woman-haters.


It's sensationalist click-bait.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:00 PM

78. Your contention is that atheism is, generally speaking, misogynistic?

 

I look forward to your brilliant insights on this topic.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:07 PM

82. Easy solution:

Don't use sloppy language.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:08 PM

17. There are some atheists who are followers.

Lets exam them for a moment and ask a few questions.

The 'self proclaimed atheists' who follow a leader show the world that they still have issues with belief in a god or gods. They are still attached to the structures of religious belief, but by whatever discontentment they hold from their own experiences with churches, the belief in god(s) still exists. They are merely unhappy, doubting members of the religious society and use the term atheist as a means to show displeasure. Consider it like a scolded child refusing to eat a hot dog because he wanted pizza.

Every atheist I know can tell the difference, unlike the media and other ill advised and unknowing person or entity. For the latter we suggest you read the article because it says what you want to hear, and it tells us who you really are.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:16 PM

18. Dominant males seem to have a problem with women.

News.Fucking.Flash.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:19 PM

20. Would you like to hear a sexist atheist idea? Here's a good one.

When the time arrives that our species is nearly gone, and only a few hold the key to the survival of humans, all of them will also eventually die. At the point where only one person is left alive the odds of continued survival are either 1 or 0. If the last one alive is a woman, we may make it.

Is that sexist enough?

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:24 PM

22. All "domintant male leaders" seem to have a problem with women.

After all, the organizations most concerned with keeping women silent, repressed and obedient are our religions, all of them.

Atheist woman haters are small potatoes in comparison with the ones who cite the power of a god backing up their woman hating.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:24 PM

23. "Outspoken Male Atheist" has a problem with women, perhaps.

Two things:


1. Atheist don't have leaders; there's no need for someone to teach or preach.

2. I'm an atheist, have been for @ least 55 years. I like women, respect women, and enjoy the company of women.


We're not a movement, we're just individuals that reject the premise of a deity.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:38 PM

27. It's sort of like right-to-work vs. union

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:53 PM

29. I'm struggling with your reply.

Your example is extremely partisan, mostly R2W supporters are Republicans, at least in my view (but I began life as a Union-Democrat).

The only connect I can make is The Saved (tm) versus The Realists. Am I missing something?

Seriously, not trying to pick a fight or insult you, I'm just not getting it.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:17 PM

37. Any kind of individual/collective situation really

I just picked one that's always talked about. To show, what I think, is the complex make up of a human being. Different mindsets at play.

With unions/religions, you have to pay your dues, go to meetings, participate in that community, etc. With atheists/r2w's, you reject that, and you go your own way.

It's not the world's most perfect analogy, but that's why I said it's sort of like it. A small slice of life's pie. Always different contexts and variables and all that included in anything.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #37)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:12 PM

46. Oh, I get it now.

Yes, an imperfect analogy, but valid.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 02:58 PM

30. There IS no movement!

 

Atheist don't have or need leaders to tell us what to do. You're thinking of religion. If you're concerned about sexist, misogynistic attitudes then, again, you're talking about religion. Worst are the followers of Islam. Not far behind are the Catholics and the Jewish religion (NOT Jewish people, the religion, designed to keep women in what is considered their place).

Yes, no doubt some atheists are sexist or misogynist (just as some of us are black, Asian, Russian, gay, transgendered, old, young, smart, stupid - you know... people). It is a problem with societies as a whole not one instigated by Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris. And yes, it should be pointed out where it occurs but to act as if society as a whole treated women fairly until a couple of people who happen to be atheists said something insensitive is not only to ignore the real problem but to play right into the hands of those pushing this agenda.

It's not atheists who are keeping women down and treating them as inferiors; it's not atheists who are beheading people or stoning 'adulterous' women to death or abusing children and protecting the rapists.

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Response to mr blur (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:36 PM

59. THIS!

Very well writ indeed.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:00 PM

31. they now have evo psych, the new religion in the name of science, to promote their patriarchy.

 

no different than any of the religions we study. just for the non believer.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:11 PM

36. Who does?

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #36)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:16 PM

48. A group of people who pride themselves on being enlightened and rational

 

and intellectually superior to the rest of the population, because they happen to reject all religion.

No, this is far from all atheists, but it's enough to make a note of it.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #48)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:35 PM

58. Again, you're telling atheists what they think *as a group*

Atheists aren't a "group of people" in the way that you're trying to pigeonhole them, and atheists don't need you to tell them what they think.

Ultimately, the only generally unifying characteristic among atheists is that they don't believe in a god. The rest of what you're claiming (that they "pride themselves on being enlightened and rational and intellectually superior to the rest of the population" is simply a lie.

No, this is far from all atheists, but it's enough to make a note of it.
Really? Have you taken a poll? Performed a census? What's your source? How big is your sample size?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:25 PM

52. Won't get much traction, I believe.

No appeal for most of us, it's too much like what most of us don't want any part of.

I certainly won't be signing up, much less tithing.

I guess, as with most philosophies, some folks just need to be in the club, and some-one will want to be the Boss. Human nature.

Shame that they (those mentioned in the article) are misogynists. I don't think there's a "connect"; ie, I don't think those views are any more widespread than in the population at large. I certainly hope that most male atheists, since the overall philosophy is tied to realism, skepticism, and belief in science as the most accurate view of reality, would not be mired in hatred for females. Still, I'm surprised that someone like Dawson, generally a very smart man, is caught up in that. Misogyny is based on emotion rather than logic, and I guess some folks are just "infected".

Emotion, especially hatred, seems to trump logic everytime.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #52)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:29 PM

55. thank you for a reasoned post. one that can argue against, yet acknowledge.

 

the atheists i knew prior to the last five years, were not a part of it. a lot of what i have heard the last couple years on du, lead me to suggest the "group" is larger than i expected.

thanks for your post.

as far as atheism, i am right there with you in the experience you express, if not a part of.

i am neither here, nor there.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #55)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:01 PM

62. Apparently some organizations do exist.

I'm not a "joiner" and have no interest in them.

I will state that any atheist, leader or not, that tries to incorporate misogyny into atheism is simply trying to sneak in their own stupid prejudice. There's no logical connection.



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Response to Feral Child (Reply #62)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:03 PM

64. i agree. but then, that is the harm of the evo psych, is they see it as factual base, science. nt

 

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:01 PM

32. Thunderf00t and AmazingAtheist aren't "Atheist Leaders."

Atheism has no leaders, just thinkers.

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Response to chrisa (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:43 PM

74. Unfortunately their videos have millions of views on youtube.

So their brand of toxic bigotry is sold to many impressionable teenagers and uncritical sites as what atheism is, hence making them a dominant voice in secular thought in america.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #74)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:51 PM

75. thank you alp. yes. simply the reality, so it behooves atheist who disagree to speak up

 

on the issue. not whether they have leaders.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:05 PM

35. I wasn't aware there were "Athiest leaders"

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:17 PM

49. What am I? Chopped liver?

By the way, you're late with your membership dues. Step up!

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Response to Orrex (Reply #49)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:22 PM

51. Shit- I thought you were on vacation!!!!!

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:28 PM

66. THERE ARE NO ATHEISTS ON VACATION!

No wait, that's in foxholes.

Never mind.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #49)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:29 PM

68. I'd like an audit of where my dues are going

Remember, we don't operate on faith.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #49)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:10 PM

90. Have you looked in a mirror lately?



I'm telling you, you're coming down with something awwful!
Two words: Hot water bottle, and chicken soup! And no making fun of the "words" thing, you know what I meant!

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:01 PM

79. "Dominant" ones at that!

 

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:58 PM

43. google seems to recognize leaders of atheists. nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #43)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:02 PM

44. What is google?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #43)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:11 PM

83. Google also has links to people that claim to have fucked Bigfoot.

Doesn't mean they really are though.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #83)

Sat Oct 4, 2014, 12:52 PM

91. OK, you win the thread.

 



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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:11 PM

45. Yes, dominant male leaders seem to have a problem with women.

 

I agree.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:19 PM

50. Look at all the defensiveness and whitewashing

 

It's reflexive, reactionary dogma...but free from being called a religion! Because atheists are the enlightened ones, you see.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #50)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:28 PM

53. Do you typically let people speak on your behalf and tell you what you think?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #50)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:28 PM

54. Atheists don't believe in made up stuff. Nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #54)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:30 PM

56. but, in the name of science, it is not made up, it is merely biology, so they say. nt

 

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #50)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:00 PM

86. Correcting misconceptions about what one believes or does not believe

Is not defensiveness or white washing. Its an effort to keep people from trying to smear us with falsehoods and stereotypes.

Dogma, on the other hand, is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. All atheism entails is not believing in any particular god.

There is no principle there.

However, the term dogma is linked to religion. So I guess what you are trying to do is insult atheists by linking them with something that they have completely rejected in an effort to be offensive to a group you don't like.

How very progressive of you.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:31 PM

57. They ain't my damn leaders!!

 

I'm the damn leader. Now everybody, pay up!! I need 10% of your moneyz for the 'building fund'.

Just to let you know, they are not leaders, just sexist atheists. Also. Many prominent and not so prominent PEOPLE are prone to expressing sexist ideas. It's the patriarchy.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #57)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:54 PM

61. Conditional payment remitted,

If you grant indulgences some of the faithful might also join!

link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
an indulgence is "a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints".

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Response to edgineered (Reply #61)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:29 PM

67. Indulgence granted upon receipt of payment.

 

Sign up as a bundler today!! Sainthood granted to prolific tithe collectors. Act fast! Offer ends soon.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #67)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:36 PM

69. Grabbing my beads and shekels now!

AND I just found 30 silver pieces that you may find useful.

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Response to edgineered (Reply #69)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:56 PM

76. Hey, Judas!

 

Ain't seen you in a while!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #76)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:49 PM

84. Unfortunately,

the stone age coroners' report did not include the wounds received by swords and spears and ruled it suicide for me. Using large rocks we then smashed the analog stone modem I was using and I entered witness protection. It was a scary experience being among hordes of fishermen and shepherds infused with all their godly powers and testosterone driven rage to prove their worthiness for eternal life.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:03 PM

63. Until they get to what the RC church is, I'm not going to spend energy worrying.

 

Their are schmucks everywhere, in gender, race, occupation, income ranges, Everywhere.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:16 PM

65. Ah... It's connect-the-dots with a power sprayer

The sloppy logic fails:

1). Many male atheist leaders have sexist ideas. Therefore the many men with sexist ideas must be atheists.


I don't know why people think that atheists are somehow a magnet for their silly, stupid and irrational personal foibles. The author is trying to tar the rest of us by dropping some celebrity names in an attempt to bolster the notion that somehow atheists must be "bad", straining any reasonable person's modest critical thinking abilities.

Its more likely that we atheists are quite opposed to concepts like misogyny, racism and most of the other prejudices that dominate the sacred texts of fundamentalist beliefs found in the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, so maybe its just another example of conservative projection.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:50 PM

70. What this refers to is organized skeptical/atheist groups.

A lot of posters are saying that they don't have leaders. That may well be true, but there are a number of organizations (the James Randi Educational Foundation, the Center for Inquiry and others) which hold conferences and meetings in which women in particular do not feel welcome because many well-known speakers who appear at these things year after year behave abominably towards women particular.

A lot of this has been argued and rehashed on the Freethought blogging network, in particular by bloggers such as PZ Myers and Ophelia Benson, among others, who have detailed the reprehensible actions of such prominent skeptics as Michael Shermer, who is at least guilty of serial sexual harassment, if not worse, at these conferences. And then responses by such prominent atheists as Richard Dawkins, who is at the very least tone-deaf, especially on Twitter, to the concerns of women generally.

Organized skepticism and atheism (I separate these because they are not the same thing) are currently quite toxic. There have been a number of incidents in which prominent (within these two movements) women have been harassed (by the followers of Dawkins and Shermer and others- not that they are responsible for the actions of their fans, necessarily) to the point where many receive daily rape threats or worse any time they try to engage online. But the harassment is not restricted to online activities, so I don't just blame the anonymity of the internet for it.

Atheism and skepticism have long been bastions of white male privilege. Now that women want to participate, that is threatening to some.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #70)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:16 PM

71. they are responsible when say, a dawkins dismisses and scorns the woman that speaks up and his

 

followers then mock, harass and further, because they got the cue from... yes.... wait for it.... their... leader.

he was the voice that had the ability to lead others to mock, harass, and more or.... nip it in the ass. dawkins chose to mock, scorn. and his followers, followed.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #71)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:58 PM

85. I agree.

And ironically, they are becoming the thing they supposedly rail against. Even so-called atheist leaders should not be immune from criticism. What's the point of getting rid of God, only to replace him with another kind of god?

I see no reason why the tools that we used to become atheists should not also be used on the so-called leaders' beliefs and behaviors.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #85)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:05 PM

88. exactly. and there are two that acknowledge this. all the rest ignore, joke, dismiss.

 

that builds no more confidence than the christians that ignore their own going on's within their religion.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:21 PM

72. Please don't tell me that...

 

There's a collection basket too!

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:28 PM

73. Leading Atheist's is like,

herding cats!

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:58 PM

77. Some prominent Christians are murderers.

 

Some prominent ice skaters are child abusers.

Some prominent businessmen are crooks.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:03 PM

80. Wow, I'm an atheist and not once have I attended Atheist Mass. I'm a bad atheist.

I didn't think atheists had to actually do things our "leaders" want. I thought I just had to NOT BE A THEIST.

LexVegas, you know so much about atheism. Is there an atheism bible?

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:06 PM

81. Yeah, it's a shame they're not enlightened like those Catholic, Baptist, Mormon & Orthodox Jewish

 

leaders who are so very progressive in their views towards women.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:07 PM

89. I'm an atheist leader and I have no thoughts on women atheist leaders pro or con?

 

know quiet a few women leaders?

Been an atheist for over 50-yrs.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Oct 4, 2014, 01:01 PM

92. Well they *are* a product of our culture and time, like any others.

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